Train driver's children 'in cab'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm

A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
being investigated.

Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.

His company, freight operator English, Welsh and Scottish Railway (EWS),
described his alleged behaviour as "totally unacceptable".

It is understood that Mr Barnes's train was travelling at low speed in a
freight yard and not on the main line.

'Appropriate action'

Reports that the children were "driving" the locomotive are said to be
incorrect.

An EWS spokesman said: "What is clear is there were children in the cab and
that is totally unacceptable behaviour by an employee.

"We will take appropriate action once the investigation is complete."

Mr Barnes is still employed as a driver pending the outcome of the inquiry,
but the spokesman refused to comment on whether he was currently driving
trains.

British Transport Police said they were not involved in the investigation.

=====

I thought the drivers where looking younger these days!
-- 
Tessy @ nospam.com
Life is complex: it has real and imaginary parts

He will so lose his job for that

Steve


"Tessy"  wrote in message 
news:240sh15ir6l36gfk5vr1pn5i6hkfi2f8q5@4ax.com...

>
> Train driver's children 'in cab'
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
>
> A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
> being investigated.
>
> Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
> him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
>
> His company, freight operator English, Welsh and Scottish Railway (EWS),
> described his alleged behaviour as "totally unacceptable".
>
> It is understood that Mr Barnes's train was travelling at low speed in a
> freight yard and not on the main line.
>
> 'Appropriate action'
>
> Reports that the children were "driving" the locomotive are said to be
> incorrect.
>
> An EWS spokesman said: "What is clear is there were children in the cab 
> and
> that is totally unacceptable behaviour by an employee.
>
> "We will take appropriate action once the investigation is complete."
>
> Mr Barnes is still employed as a driver pending the outcome of the 
> inquiry,
> but the spokesman refused to comment on whether he was currently driving
> trains.
>
> British Transport Police said they were not involved in the investigation.
>
> =====
>
> I thought the drivers where looking younger these days!
> -- 
> Tessy @ nospam.com
> Life is complex: it has real and imaginary parts 

"Tessy"  wrote in message 
news:240sh15ir6l36gfk5vr1pn5i6hkfi2f8q5@4ax.com...

>
> Train driver's children 'in cab'
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
>
> A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
> being investigated.
>
> Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
> him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
>
> His company, freight operator English, Welsh and Scottish Railway (EWS),
> described his alleged behaviour as "totally unacceptable".
>
> It is understood that Mr Barnes's train was travelling at low speed in a
> freight yard and not on the main line.


And years ago how often did we get cab rides from drivers on the mainline?! 
I know I did. Even got to drive a few to when I was still at school! Happy 
days!!!!


Tim

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:44:21 GMT, "Steve" 
wrote:


>He will so lose his job for that


Does he really need to?  I've been in the cab of a loco at Liverpool
Lime St many years ago as a kid, when one of my Grandad's train driver
friends invited me in.  I didn't get a cab ride, but I did get to
press the button to start the loco, and that was impressive enough for
me as a young child...

Yes, times may have changed, and an entire shift would be a bit much,
but still...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Steve wrote:

> He will so lose his job for that
>
> Steve




Is there a specific rule about age limits for who can be in the cab?

Would it be more acceptable to leave the children unattended?

What the hell makes this a story at all?  Quiet news day?

"Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
news:431e11d1.244731@news.tesco.net...

> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:44:21 GMT, "Steve" 
> wrote:
>
>>He will so lose his job for that
>
> Does he really need to?  I've been in the cab of a loco at Liverpool
> Lime St many years ago as a kid, when one of my Grandad's train driver
> friends invited me in.  I didn't get a cab ride, but I did get to
> press the button to start the loco, and that was impressive enough for
> me as a young child...


I can remember "driving a train" when I was little: when we lived in 
Maidenhead (which dates it to 1966-1967) we were travelling in a DMU with 
forward view through the driver's cab and I was staring through the window 
into the cab, watching the driver. He invited me in and let me drive - 
probably just put my hands on the power and brake levers which he moved 
them. I'm not sure whether it was on the GWML or the Bourne End branch - 
probably the latter.

How times have changed. So sad :-(

The message 
from Tessy  contains these words:


> Reports that the children were "driving" the locomotive are said to be
> incorrect.

> An EWS spokesman said: "What is clear is there were children in the cab and
> that is totally unacceptable behaviour by an employee.


Some years ago first year pupils at my school took part in an
inter-school rail safety quiz and eventually won the trophy presented by
Liverpool division as it was then.  As part of the prize all the
11-year-olds who had been involved in the various rounds of the quiz
were taken to a railfreight depot in Liverpool accompanied by several
members of staff (including me, naturally!).

After a safety briefing by a traction inspector, the children were split
into small groups led by a loco driver and a teacher, and taken round
the depot. A Class 25 (IIRC) was pressed into service for cab rides, and
several children were allowed to "control" the loco.  I spent more time
in the signal box which controlled the yard than I should have and
missed my chance with the 25, but was taken on a conducted tour of an
electric loco (possibly an 81, the photos don't show the number)
instead.

I suspect that such an event couldn't possibly take place these days, it
would be classed as too dangerous, even though nothing moved in the yard
(except the 25) while we were on the tracks - only when we were being
taken to a different part of the depot by car did a train arrive in the
yard, and I suspect that our visit was carefully timed even though
everything was very relaxed.

-- 
Dave,                                     
Frodsham

"Martin Underwood"  wrote in message 
news:431e1fba$0$1303$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

> "Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
> news:431e11d1.244731@news.tesco.net...
>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:44:21 GMT, "Steve" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>He will so lose his job for that
>>
>> Does he really need to?  I've been in the cab of a loco at Liverpool
>> Lime St many years ago as a kid, when one of my Grandad's train driver
>> friends invited me in.  I didn't get a cab ride, but I did get to
>> press the button to start the loco, and that was impressive enough for
>> me as a young child...
>
> I can remember "driving a train" when I was little: when we lived in 
> Maidenhead (which dates it to 1966-1967) we were travelling in a DMU with 
> forward view through the driver's cab and I was staring through the window 
> into the cab, watching the driver. He invited me in and let me drive - 
> probably just put my hands on the power and brake levers which he moved 
> them. I'm not sure whether it was on the GWML or the Bourne End branch - 
> probably the latter.
>
> How times have changed. So sad :-(


Similar thing happened to me, when I was invited into the cab of a 101 as it 
arrived at Darlington - and this was a little over 20 years ago so it 
happened more recently than most people think.

Oh, to be 4 again :(

-- 
*** http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/ ***
Rich Mackin (rich-at-richmackin-co-uk)
MSN: richmackin-at-hotmail-dot-com

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:20:26, Tessy  wrote:

>
>A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
>being investigated.
>
>Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
>him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
>
>His company, freight operator English, Welsh and Scottish Railway (EWS),
>described his alleged behaviour as "totally unacceptable".


I would describe their response as "totally outrageous".  All the guy
has done is get his dates mixed up....

http://www.guides.org.uk/daughters/

Paul Harley

-- 
Remove "eeek" to contact me!

Tessy wrote:

> Train driver's children 'in cab'
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
> 
> A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
> being investigated.
> 
> Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
> him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
> 
> His company, freight operator English, Welsh and Scottish Railway (EWS),
> described his alleged behaviour as "totally unacceptable".
> 
> It is understood that Mr Barnes's train was travelling at low speed in a
> freight yard and not on the main line.
> 
> 'Appropriate action'
> 
> Reports that the children were "driving" the locomotive are said to be
> incorrect.
> 
> An EWS spokesman said: "What is clear is there were children in the cab and
> that is totally unacceptable behaviour by an employee.
> 
> "We will take appropriate action once the investigation is complete."
> 
> Mr Barnes is still employed as a driver pending the outcome of the inquiry,
> but the spokesman refused to comment on whether he was currently driving
> trains.
> 
> British Transport Police said they were not involved in the investigation.
> 
> =====
> 
> I thought the drivers where looking younger these days!



My father and brother had a friend once who worked as a train driver. 
When I was younger we all got on the train at Hastings one day when 
their friends asks me to go with him. No one tells me where and I get 
upset so my brother goes instead. We get to Rye when they tell me and 
pop me in the cab (what he wanted me to do at Hastings!) So I ended up 
travelling Rye to Ashford in the cab. I don't really remember the 
journey all too well except when we almost flattened a daft Pheasant 
just outside Appledore. Strange memories stick.

J-Me

"J-Me"  wrote in message 
news:431e457c$0$13706$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...

> Tessy wrote:
>> Train driver's children 'in cab'
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
>>
>> A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab 
>> is
>> being investigated.
>>
>> Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
>> him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
>>
>> His company, freight operator English, Welsh and Scottish Railway (EWS),
>> described his alleged behaviour as "totally unacceptable".
>>
>> It is understood that Mr Barnes's train was travelling at low speed in a
>> freight yard and not on the main line.
>>
>> 'Appropriate action'
>>
>> Reports that the children were "driving" the locomotive are said to be
>> incorrect.
>>
>> An EWS spokesman said: "What is clear is there were children in the cab 
>> and
>> that is totally unacceptable behaviour by an employee.
>>
>> "We will take appropriate action once the investigation is complete."
>>
>> Mr Barnes is still employed as a driver pending the outcome of the 
>> inquiry,
>> but the spokesman refused to comment on whether he was currently driving
>> trains.
>>
>> British Transport Police said they were not involved in the 
>> investigation.
>>
>> =====
>>
>> I thought the drivers where looking younger these days!
>
>
> My father and brother had a friend once who worked as a train driver. When 
> I was younger we all got on the train at Hastings one day when their 
> friends asks me to go with him. No one tells me where and I get upset so 
> my brother goes instead. We get to Rye when they tell me and pop me in the 
> cab (what he wanted me to do at Hastings!) So I ended up travelling Rye to 
> Ashford in the cab. I don't really remember the journey all too well 
> except when we almost flattened a daft Pheasant just outside Appledore. 
> Strange memories stick.
>
> J-Me


In 1995, whilst travelling thru outback Australia, I drove the "Gulflander" 
for a good hour, compliments of the driver. Admittedly, the train runs on an 
isolated section of track between Normanton and Croydon in Queensland, and 
has a top speed of maybe 40km/hr. Even so, I was thrilled to be given the 
opportunity.....and I was then in my 40's.!

Shane

> In 1995, whilst travelling thru outback Australia, I drove the
> "Gulflander"
> for a good hour, compliments of the driver. Admittedly, the train runs on
> an isolated section of track between Normanton and Croydon in Queensland,
> and has a top speed of maybe 40km/hr. Even so, I was thrilled to be given
> the opportunity.....and I was then in my 40's.!


Sometime in the early to mid 1970s, I drove (Backed) CNR 4-8-4 No. 6218 from
just outside the station in Quebec City, down the main line for a bit, then
stopped while the brakeman lined the switch for the wye, backed around what
I would guess was the east leg of the wye onto the tail track, stopped and
waited for the brakeman to line the switch for the west leg of the wye,
drove forward onto the west leg of the wye and approaching the exit to the
mainline, stopped and then the engineer took over for the forward movement
onto the main and backing into the terminal.  He's spotted a "suit"
otherwise he said he'd have let me continue backing into the station as I
seemed to be doing quite well.

This little exercise took about 30 minutes, involved several grade (level)
crossing for which the bell had to be rung and a 14L whistle signal sounded,
that's two long, one short and one long held until the crossing is occupied.
All the time, the engineer was standing stooped behind me so he could see
out of the front window and after about ten minutes, he stood in the cab
doorway.

He let me do this because we were chatting and he said he'd seen me at the
Canadian Railway Museum driving both one of our road switchers, a 120 ton
RS3 while switching (shunting) dead steam locos around and later, running
the Doodlebug, single unit diesel railcar from the 1930s.

All he did was ask me "How would you start a steam loco?", so I told him,
and he let me.  :-)

Of course, like many other people, in the late 1950s and early 1960s on BR I
managed a few unofficial footplate and cab rides but the above was,
obviously, the best.


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

In article <dfl3ou$678$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Tim Rogers
 writes

>
>"Tessy"  wrote in message 
>news:240sh15ir6l36gfk5vr1pn5i6hkfi2f8q5@4ax.com...
>>
>> Train driver's children 'in cab'
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
>>
>> A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
>> being investigated.
>>
>> Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
>> him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
>>
>> His company, freight operator English, Welsh and Scottish Railway (EWS),
>> described his alleged behaviour as "totally unacceptable".
>>
>> It is understood that Mr Barnes's train was travelling at low speed in a
>> freight yard and not on the main line.
>
>And years ago how often did we get cab rides from drivers on the mainline?! 
>I know I did. Even got to drive a few to when I was still at school! Happy 
>days!!!!
>
>
>Tim 
>
>


Yep I got one in D5515 from Liverpool St to Cambridge back in 1976, but
it might have been that well endowed girlfriend who was with me at the
time that made the drivers mind up:)).

And really, were his daughters in any danger at all apart from a bit of
rule bending?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

"Tessy"  wrote in message 
news:240sh15ir6l36gfk5vr1pn5i6hkfi2f8q5@4ax.com...

>
> Train driver's children 'in cab'
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
>
> A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
> being investigated.
>
> Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
> him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.

....

"Take Your Daughter To Work Day"? :-)
-- 
David Biddulph

Rich Mackin wrote:

> "Martin Underwood"  wrote in message
> news:431e1fba$0$1303$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> > "Neil Williams"  wrote in message
> > news:431e11d1.244731@news.tesco.net...
> >> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:44:21 GMT, "Steve" 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>He will so lose his job for that
> >>
> >> Does he really need to?  I've been in the cab of a loco at Liverpool
> >> Lime St many years ago as a kid, when one of my Grandad's train driver
> >> friends invited me in.  I didn't get a cab ride, but I did get to
> >> press the button to start the loco, and that was impressive enough for
> >> me as a young child...
> >
> > I can remember "driving a train" when I was little: when we lived in
> > Maidenhead (which dates it to 1966-1967) we were travelling in a DMU with
> > forward view through the driver's cab and I was staring through the window
> > into the cab, watching the driver. He invited me in and let me drive -
> > probably just put my hands on the power and brake levers which he moved
> > them. I'm not sure whether it was on the GWML or the Bourne End branch -
> > probably the latter.
> >
> > How times have changed. So sad :-(
>
> Similar thing happened to me, when I was invited into the cab of a 101 as it
> arrived at Darlington - and this was a little over 20 years ago so it
> happened more recently than most people think.
>
> 

MTAAW, on the mid Wales line bteween Caersws and Newtown.

-- 
Malc

"Martin Underwood"  wrote


> How times have changed. So sad :-(
>

When GFF was AYM at Whitemoor, his new wife expressed a desire to drive an
engine. So on high days and holidays they went down to the Norwood Yard.
While GFF sat in the office with his hands over his ears (so he wouldn't
hear the rattle of point rodding and the crunch of wheels on timber if she
got off the road), she shunted the Fast Goods.

Peter

A good few years ago in the 1990s, my parents were friends with a train
conductor (now sadly passed on due to cancer) who on the day in
question was working the St Ives branch on a class 150
(pre-privatisation days, these). As he came to collect tickets there
were only two or three people on our coach, and I sheepishly asked him
if I could sit in the cab with the driver.

I managed to stand there from Lelant to Penzance, hiding as we passed
St Erth signalbox and ducking as we waited at a red signal before the
track turns single on the Penzance approach, as an early evening
Paddington HST passed.

Amazing experience. Since then, my only cab-based experience has been
to stand inside a class 47, when the TPO was still running.

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:20:26 GMT, Tessy  wrote:

>
>Train driver's children 'in cab'
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
>
>A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
>being investigated.
>
>Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
>him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.


At first it does seem unfair to clobber this driver for a minor rule
infringement, but the rules are there for a reason. There's always
going to be somebody who behaves completely irresponsibly and lets
their children do something completely unsuitable for a birthday
treat. How many road accidents are caused by irresponsible parents
letting their children drive the car on their laps? Then there was the
Russian airliner that crashed while being flown by the pilot's small
son. Would we all be so understanding if this incident had resulted in
a crash and loss of life?

Best regards, Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting     http://paulsherwin.co.uk

In article <dfm3pm$cbe$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, David
Biddulph  writes

>"Tessy"  wrote in message 
>news:240sh15ir6l36gfk5vr1pn5i6hkfi2f8q5@4ax.com...
>>
>> Train driver's children 'in cab'
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
>>
>> A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
>> being investigated.
>>
>> Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
>> him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
>...
>
>"Take Your Daughter To Work Day"? :-)



Well if you've got more that One, let me tell you that the wisdom of
Solomon is required to stop them being jealous of what the other
one/ones got!....
-- 
Tony Sayer

3 daughters.. all of whom have been for a cab rides, but only authorised ones;))

Paul Sherwin wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:20:26 GMT, Tessy  wrote:
> >
> >Train driver's children 'in cab'
> >
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4218494.stm
> >
> >A train driver who allegedly let his two young children ride in his cab is
> >being investigated.
> >
> >Dennis Barnes, 37, was reported to have taken his daughters to work with
> >him at a freight yard in Plymouth, Devon.
>
> At first it does seem unfair to clobber this driver for a minor rule
> infringement, but the rules are there for a reason. There's always
> going to be somebody who behaves completely irresponsibly and lets
> their children do something completely unsuitable for a birthday
> treat. How many road accidents are caused by irresponsible parents
> letting their children drive the car on their laps? Then there was the
> Russian airliner that crashed while being flown by the pilot's small
> son. Would we all be so understanding if this incident had resulted in
> a crash and loss of life?
>
> Best regards, Paul


But, as far as we know, he did not let his kids drive.

And in any case, allowing kids drive a car from the lap, and allowing a
kid hold the control handle of a locomotive while you sit right by
them, are two different things involiving entirely different risk
factors.

Even inspectors in the old days would turn a blind eye if they knew the
drivers were sensible, which after all the years of service they were.

I have "driven" DMUs and locos for a few yards as a kid under the
watchful eye of the driver.

This is simply over-reacting, and is, I suggest, counter-productive in
the long run.

Kester

Ah a reply from a consultant - we all know how much credence to give
that then!

As usual it boils down to telling us something we knew any way if we
used our common sense

But at least he he didn't charge this time!

Paul Sherwin wrote:

> How many road accidents are caused by irresponsible parents
> letting their children drive the car on their laps? Then there was the
> Russian airliner that crashed while being flown by the pilot's small
> son.


Both totally different set of risks - ie dynamic environments with extreme 
outside influences.

A train, in a good yard, is not exactly in the same class of things - at 
all.

But that's alright, once all the fun and enjoyment has been sucked out of 
life through the crusade of (extreme) health and safety I'm sure we'll have 
a much better life.

Sitting at home blinking regularly whilst being reminded to breathe.

MIG wrote:

> Steve wrote:
> 
>>He will so lose his job for that
>>
>>Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a specific rule about age limits for who can be in the cab?


No, but people must be supervised by a Traction Inspector when in the 
cab the train is being driven from, and even then require cab passes.

The only examples I can think of guests being in there are for publicity 
purposes, i.e. media, mp's or various top management.

The only other people allowed in there unsupervised, other than the 
driver, are specific grades of railway employees (i.e. guards, shunters, 
pilotmen, fitters, and probably certain levels of management) when they 
have a specific reason to be in there. They'd be heavily in the shit if 
they just went in there for the fun of it though.

As for travelling in rear or intermediate cabs, the rule book states 
that only the guard of the train, or a guard in the course of his duties 
is permitted in there (or those in posession of non driving cab passes - 
management and fitters spring to mind). Incidentally a number of train 
companies appear to have banned guards and drivers from riding in back 
cabs altogther.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:08:30 GMT someone who may be
paulSPAM@paulsherwin.co.uk (Paul Sherwin) wrote this:-


>At first it does seem unfair to clobber this driver for a minor rule
>infringement, but the rules are there for a reason.


As Hatfield has been in the news recently it is worthwhile recalling
that the train was being driven by a trainee driver, who should not
have been driving it at that stage in her training according to the
written down policies. However, those involved in investigating the
crash seem to have taken a sensible attitude to this and not made a
meal of it, neither have the mass media. That all seems very
sensible to me and much better than, "the rules are there for a
reason", arguments.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Martin Underwood wrote:

>
>
> I can remember "driving a train" when I was little: when we lived in
> Maidenhead (which dates it to 1966-1967) we were travelling in a DMU with
> forward view through the driver's cab and I was staring through the window
> into the cab, watching the driver. He invited me in and let me drive -
> probably just put my hands on the power and brake levers which he moved
> them. I'm not sure whether it was on the GWML or the Bourne End branch -
> probably the latter.
>
> How times have changed. So sad :-(


I had the same experience on a class 121 DMU when i was a kid, but this
would've been around 1987! I was allowed to sit next to the driver and
do things as well.

I feel very sympathetic towards the EWS driver but you sadly can't get
away with it any more.


When I was kid (1980's) I had many many cab rides and made friends with
many of the drivers who used to often let me drive non passenger trains
but under strict supervision.

Times I can think of: I drove an empty 312 from Royston to Copenhagen
Tunnel when I was 14, a 31 out of Whitemoor to Royston Yard on a grain
working, a pair of 20's on a Foxton coal train, and several 47's on van
trains.

I was very lucky that I knew lots of the drivers who would invite me up
but I never asked, it was always offered.  It wasn't right to put
someone in that position.

I then became a frequent childhood visitor to signalboxes which pathed
out my future career working in several of them.

Happy days.

Greg

On 7 Sep 2005 04:11:39 -0700, "TBirdFrank"
 wrote:


>Ah a reply from a consultant - we all know how much credence to give
>that then!
>
>As usual it boils down to telling us something we knew any way if we
>used our common sense
>
>But at least he he didn't charge this time!
>

Thanks for that friendly and constructive response. Next time you
bugger up your computer system I hope you have fun fixing it yourself.

Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting     http://paulsherwin.co.uk

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:28:42 +0100 someone who may be pInBaLL
 wrote this:-


>The only other people allowed in there unsupervised, other than the 
>driver, are specific grades of railway employees (i.e. guards, shunters, 
>pilotmen, fitters, and probably certain levels of management) when they 
>have a specific reason to be in there.


With the rise of locations where staff are not allowed access
without all sorts of precautions, I gather that in the past five
years or so certain civil engineering staff have been provided with
passes so that they can "inspect" the line from the cab. Quite how
much of an inspection they can do from the cab of a train running at
line speed is not clear to me. This applies to places like cuttings
on curves.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"Rich Mackin"  wrote in message
news:dxpTe.9634$vC4.7067@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

> "Martin Underwood"  wrote in message
....

> Similar thing happened to me, when I was invited into the cab of a 101 as
it
> arrived at Darlington - and this was a little over 20 years ago so it
> happened more recently than most people think.


Not a 101 but the closest I could get
www.the-dormouse.org/images/helmshore_7_l.jpg ... same thing happened a
couple of years later when they closed the Bacup line (now East Lancs
Railway).

Strikes me that sticking the bloke on for having his little 'uns in the cab
is the work of a petty minded jobsworth who should be tied to the tracks.

-- 

All the best,

Chris Wilson

That's cwilson at britwar with a dot uk and dot co on the end. (Reply
address is blackholed)

http://www.the-dormouse.org - The Dormouse Line Model Railway - UPDATED

In article , Neil Williams <wensleydale@
pacersplace.org.uk> writes

>On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:44:21 GMT, "Steve" 
>wrote:
>
>>He will so lose his job for that
>
>Does he really need to?  I've been in the cab of a loco at Liverpool
>Lime St many years ago as a kid, when one of my Grandad's train driver
>friends invited me in.  I didn't get a cab ride, but I did get to
>press the button to start the loco, and that was impressive enough for
>me as a young child...
>
>Yes, times may have changed, and an entire shift would be a bit much,
>but still...
>
>Neil
>

Yes, does he need to loose his job. OK infringement of the regs but was
any real harm or potential harm done. After all did he put his children
in any danger?, suggest not. Perhaps a  good rollicking and "don't do it
again" would be in order. So then sack him, and I suppose no one else
might want to employ him so unless this blokes been a risk taker in that
past a driver who's cost a lot to train and of course they'll have to
indirectly have to train up someone else to replace him. What a waste of
a skilled employee.

Now if he were a SPAD a week man.

But I don't suppose EWS might make something good about it, and allow
drivers to take their children to work for the day?. Good publicity
shows up the rail industry in a good light, very positively newsworthy
would cost next to sod all, and who knows might inspire them to work in
the industry......
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article , David Hansen
 writes

>On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:08:30 GMT someone who may be
>paulSPAM@paulsherwin.co.uk (Paul Sherwin) wrote this:-
>
>>At first it does seem unfair to clobber this driver for a minor rule
>>infringement, but the rules are there for a reason.
>
>As Hatfield has been in the news recently it is worthwhile recalling
>that the train was being driven by a trainee driver, who should not
>have been driving it at that stage in her training according to the
>written down policies. However, those involved in investigating the
>crash seem to have taken a sensible attitude to this and not made a
>meal of it, neither have the mass media. That all seems very
>sensible to me and much better than, "the rules are there for a
>reason", arguments.


Yes,

Guidance for wise men, and absolute obeyance for idiots....

-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:


> But I don't suppose EWS might make something good about it, and allow
> drivers to take their children to work for the day?. Good publicity
> shows up the rail industry in a good light, very positively newsworthy
> would cost next to sod all, and who knows might inspire them to work in
> the industry......


And it might just stop them from being the fare dodgers and / or brick 
throwers of tomorrow...

On9 year old Nathan's train driving dream comes true!
14 April 2005

A nine year old boy from Colchester got a huge surprise when 'one'
offered him a ride in the cab of a train to London.

Nathan Sutton wrote to the train operator to say that he would like to
be a train driver when he is older and asked what qualifications he
would need.

As well as filling Nathan in on all the details, Operations director,
Mark Phillips, wrote back offering him a cab ride as well so that he
could experience his ambition at first hand!

Nathan, from Colchester, will get a train driver's perspective as he
travels in the cab with driver manager John Boulden on the 09.44
service from Colchester to London Liverpool Street.

Nathan's mother Tracey and brother Daniel will travel in the train and
the family will enjoy a day out in London on reaching their
destination.

'one' communications manager, Kerri Worrall, said, "It's very unusual
for us to offer cab rides to children but we were pleased to make an
exception in Nathan's case because of his love of trains and enthusiasm
for the industry."
e allowed a child in one of their cabs - see below

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 23:22:49 GMT, "Rich Mackin"
 wrote:


>"Martin Underwood"  wrote in message 
>news:431e1fba$0$1303$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> "Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
>> news:431e11d1.244731@news.tesco.net...
>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:44:21 GMT, "Steve" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>He will so lose his job for that
>>>
>>> Does he really need to?  I've been in the cab of a loco at Liverpool
>>> Lime St many years ago as a kid, when one of my Grandad's train driver
>>> friends invited me in.  I didn't get a cab ride, but I did get to
>>> press the button to start the loco, and that was impressive enough for
>>> me as a young child...
>>
>> I can remember "driving a train" when I was little: when we lived in 
>> Maidenhead (which dates it to 1966-1967) we were travelling in a DMU with 
>> forward view through the driver's cab and I was staring through the window 
>> into the cab, watching the driver. He invited me in and let me drive - 
>> probably just put my hands on the power and brake levers which he moved 
>> them. I'm not sure whether it was on the GWML or the Bourne End branch - 
>> probably the latter.
>>
>> How times have changed. So sad :-(
>
>Similar thing happened to me, when I was invited into the cab of a 101 as it 
>arrived at Darlington - and this was a little over 20 years ago so it 
>happened more recently than most people think.
>
>Oh, to be 4 again :(


agree - it seems a bit heavy handed, kids have always gone to work
with their dads - well I di and mine have. When i was younger a mate
and I rode in the cab of one of the waterloo & C units (not the
current ones, the ones before (EE?). 

However, on the down side and not prolly directly linked to this, I
did see certain persons "thrashing" which is to find an un guarded
loco, running, and climb in and give the throttle a twist. I read
about it also on a site  just recently somewhere about some bloke
thrashing a 37 on the head of a pax while stopped in a station... he
kept it going to the last minute with driver + others legging it down
the platform to get him... failed. Another time, a mate of mine did
the same to a peak at cricklewood one saturday. We were in the shed
and a group of lads (apprentices) were in the cab of the peak and
covered the number on the outside (got it from the cab) so just to
phuq them up, steve nipped in the other end and jacked the throttle
round - we ran :o)

So I can see why they might take a dim view of unauths in the cab

>
>Strikes me that sticking the bloke on for having his little 'uns in the cab
>is the work of a petty minded jobsworth who should be tied to the tracks.


when do we start and can I bring some from work?

Martin Underwood wrote:


> 
> 
> I can remember "driving a train" when I was little: when we lived in 
> Maidenhead (which dates it to 1966-1967) we were travelling in a DMU with 
> forward view through the driver's cab and I was staring through the window 
> into the cab, watching the driver. He invited me in and let me drive - 
> probably just put my hands on the power and brake levers which he moved 
> them. I'm not sure whether it was on the GWML or the Bourne End branch - 
> probably the latter.
> 
> How times have changed. So sad :-( 
> 
> 


Seems many of us have blagged a cab ride as kids! I managed 4 (well, 3 
and a half), these being Mallaig to Fort William, Aberdeen to somewhere 
near Glasgow Queen Street ("duck down while we pass the signalbox"), 
Kirkham and Wesham to Blackpool South and Carlisle to near Glasgow 
Central (in a DVT at the back, hence the half). All good fun! I seem to 
remember back in the late 80s and early 90s that if you asked, you got! 
All changed now obviously...

Cheers,

Steve M

In message 
          Steve M  wrote:


> Martin Underwood wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > I can remember "driving a train" when I was little: when we lived in 
> > Maidenhead (which dates it to 1966-1967) we were travelling in a DMU with
> > forward view through the driver's cab and I was staring through the
> > window  into the cab, watching the driver. He invited me in and let me
> > drive -  probably just put my hands on the power and brake levers which
> > he moved  them. I'm not sure whether it was on the GWML or the Bourne End
> > branch -  probably the latter.
> > 
> > How times have changed. So sad :-( 
> > 
> > 
> 
> Seems many of us have blagged a cab ride as kids! I managed 4 (well, 3 
> and a half), these being Mallaig to Fort William, Aberdeen to somewhere 
> near Glasgow Queen Street ("duck down while we pass the signalbox"), 
> Kirkham and Wesham to Blackpool South and Carlisle to near Glasgow 
> Central (in a DVT at the back, hence the half). All good fun! I seem to 
> remember back in the late 80s and early 90s that if you asked, you got! 
> All changed now obviously...
> 


Aged 11/12 I drove a pannier tank the length of the down platform at High
Wycombe.

I was offered a ride in the cab of a 9F from Beaconsfield to Wycombe, but had
to catch my bus home instead :-(

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

In article , Mark
Wallace  writes

>On9 year old Nathan's train driving dream comes true!
>14 April 2005
>
>A nine year old boy from Colchester got a huge surprise when 'one'
>offered him a ride in the cab of a train to London.
>
>Nathan Sutton wrote to the train operator to say that he would like to
>be a train driver when he is older and asked what qualifications he
>would need.
>
>As well as filling Nathan in on all the details, Operations director,
>Mark Phillips, wrote back offering him a cab ride as well so that he
>could experience his ambition at first hand!
>
>Nathan, from Colchester, will get a train driver's perspective as he
>travels in the cab with driver manager John Boulden on the 09.44
>service from Colchester to London Liverpool Street.
>
>Nathan's mother Tracey and brother Daniel will travel in the train and
>the family will enjoy a day out in London on reaching their
>destination.
>
>'one' communications manager, Kerri Worrall, said, "It's very unusual
>for us to offer cab rides to children but we were pleased to make an
>exception in Nathan's case because of his love of trains and enthusiasm
>for the industry."
>e allowed a child in one of their cabs - see below
>


There you are!, a positive happy goodwill thing;-))
-- 
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer"  wrote in message 
news:wB4vOdBEY$HDFw5x@bancom.co.uk...

> In article , Mark
> Wallace  writes
>>On9 year old Nathan's train driving dream comes true!
>>14 April 2005
>>
>>A nine year old boy from Colchester got a huge surprise when 'one'
>>offered him a ride in the cab of a train to London.
>>
>>Nathan Sutton wrote to the train operator to say that he would like to
>>be a train driver when he is older and asked what qualifications he
>>would need.
>>
>>As well as filling Nathan in on all the details, Operations director,
>>Mark Phillips, wrote back offering him a cab ride as well so that he
>>could experience his ambition at first hand!
>>
>>Nathan, from Colchester, will get a train driver's perspective as he
>>travels in the cab with driver manager John Boulden on the 09.44
>>service from Colchester to London Liverpool Street.
>>
>>Nathan's mother Tracey and brother Daniel will travel in the train and
>>the family will enjoy a day out in London on reaching their
>>destination.
>>
>>'one' communications manager, Kerri Worrall, said, "It's very unusual
>>for us to offer cab rides to children but we were pleased to make an
>>exception in Nathan's case because of his love of trains and enthusiasm
>>for the industry."
>>e allowed a child in one of their cabs - see below
>>
>
> There you are!, a positive happy goodwill thing;-))
> -- 
> Tony Sayer
>

Indeed,  with the significant part being the presence of the Driver 
Manager...Certainly no one without a valid cab pass is allowed in the cab of 
one of our locos, unless accompanied by an authorised person, who is not 
the driver.
When I was a child, my father worked in the civil engineering business, and 
I used to spend the bulk of my spare time at weekends and holidays going 
around sites with him. Forty years ago, the Factory Inspectorate only used 
to appear after accidents, and so health and safety monitoring was less 
strict than it is today. As a result, I was allowed to visit all sorts of 
plant, often 'helping' by holding one end of the tape measure etc. I have a 
very strong recollection of watching a furnace at a steelworks being tapped, 
probably from when I was six or seven,as the works closed by the mid 1960s.
I notice the press officer in question was a Ms Worrall- any relation to 
Terry 'Wrong type of snow' Worrall, I wonder..
Brian

tony sayer wrote:



> >That all seems very
> >sensible to me and much better than, "the rules are there for a
> >reason", arguments.
>
> Yes,
>
> Guidance for wise men, and absolute obeyance for idiots....


Yes, indeed - let's replace the Rule Book with an Aphorism Book...

"Paul Sherwin"  wrote in message
news:431f0b13.23201301@news.demon.co.uk...

> On 7 Sep 2005 04:11:39 -0700, "TBirdFrank"
>  wrote:
>
> >Ah a reply from a consultant - we all know how much credence to give
> >that then!
> >
> >As usual it boils down to telling us something we knew any way if we
> >used our common sense
> >
> >But at least he he didn't charge this time!
> >
> Thanks for that friendly and constructive response. Next time you
> bugger up your computer system I hope you have fun fixing it yourself.
>

wouldnt that put you on the dole then?
cheers
james