Hi all,

Just a query about savers.  If the "main" TOC sets a morning peak
restriction, how does this relate to a restriction on connecting services?

Some practical examples:
1. A SVR from Twyford to Leeds, routed via London.  GNER sets their
restriction as after 0929, making the 0935 from the cross the first train.
Is there any other (not well advertised) restriction from FGWL, or could I
travel on any train into Paddington to arrive in time to connect in at 0935?

2. A SVR from Twyford to Birmingham New Street, via Cross Country.  Valid on
the 0905 and later from Reading.  Is it valid on nay train from Twyford to
connect at Reading, even though that means leaving Twyford before 0900?

I'm interested in the specific answers, as well as the general principles.

Thanks,
Michael

Michael Hopkins wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just a query about savers.  If the "main" TOC sets a morning peak
> restriction, how does this relate to a restriction on connecting services?
>
> Some practical examples:
> 1. A SVR from Twyford to Leeds, routed via London.  GNER sets their
> restriction as after 0929, making the 0935 from the cross the first train.
> Is there any other (not well advertised) restriction from FGWL, or could I
> travel on any train into Paddington to arrive in time to connect in at 0935?
>
> 2. A SVR from Twyford to Birmingham New Street, via Cross Country.  Valid on
> the 0905 and later from Reading.  Is it valid on nay train from Twyford to
> connect at Reading, even though that means leaving Twyford before 0900?
>
> I'm interested in the specific answers, as well as the general principles.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael


You can certainly (per the trainline) travel earlier from Twyford to
connect with the first valid GNER/Virgin train and get a saver.

Whether this implies ANY earlier train, or only the recognised
connecting train I don't know - the former hints at break of journey,
which is not allowed, but then you might want to travel earlier to be
sure of your connection.

> I'm interested in the specific answers, as well as the general principles.


Additionally, what are the valid trains on the return journey? You
could break a SVR from TWY to Leeds in London, could you return from
London in the peak morning?

What if the situation were reversed, a SVR from Leeds to TWY, what's
the first train you could begin a return on?

On 6 Sep 2005 06:30:18 -0700, dtren@my-deja.com wrote:


> the former hints at break of journey,
>which is not allowed


For the purposes of a SVR, it is not a disallowed break of journey
unless you leave the station.  You *can*, for example, "break your
journey" to use station services, which one would suggest includes
such things as spending an hour drinking coffee waiting for a
preferred connection rather than the next one.  You can even spend
three hours sitting on the platform if you so wish.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:


> For the purposes of a SVR, it is not a disallowed break of journey
> unless you leave the station.  You *can*, for example, "break your
> journey" to use station services


Which raises the question of where the 'station' ends - are the
shops at Manchester Picacdilly allowed? If so, how about the
ones above Birmingham NS?

 > You can even spend

> three hours sitting on the platform if you so wish.


Of course that would make you an 'enthusiast' so you'd have to ask 
permission from the duty manager....

Charlie

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:47:23 GMT, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>Which raises the question of where the 'station' ends - are the
>shops at Manchester Picacdilly allowed? If so, how about the
>ones above Birmingham NS?


In theory?  No idea.  In practice?  Whatever you like, as the BoJ rule
appears fairly universally not to be enforced, so long as you're not
gone for hours.  I have used both of the above while waiting for a
connection on an outbound SVR, in some cases passing through a manned
barrier to do so.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

dtren@my-deja.com wrote:

> Michael Hopkins wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Just a query about savers.  If the "main" TOC sets a morning peak
>>restriction, how does this relate to a restriction on connecting services?
>>
>>Some practical examples:
>>1. A SVR from Twyford to Leeds, routed via London.  GNER sets their
>>restriction as after 0929, making the 0935 from the cross the first train.
>>Is there any other (not well advertised) restriction from FGWL, or could I
>>travel on any train into Paddington to arrive in time to connect in at 0935?
>>
>>2. A SVR from Twyford to Birmingham New Street, via Cross Country.  Valid on
>>the 0905 and later from Reading.  Is it valid on nay train from Twyford to
>>connect at Reading, even though that means leaving Twyford before 0900?
>>
>>I'm interested in the specific answers, as well as the general principles.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Michael
> 
> You can certainly (per the trainline) travel earlier from Twyford to
> connect with the first valid GNER/Virgin train and get a saver.
> 
> Whether this implies ANY earlier train, or only the recognised
> connecting train I don't know - the former hints at break of journey,
> which is not allowed, but then you might want to travel earlier to be
> sure of your connection.


I've forgotten the wording, but it's something like if you're travelling 
from a former Network South East station on to an long-distance service 
(such as GNER) then the only ticket validity you have to worry about is 
the long-distance bit but the leg of the journey from the former NSE 
station must be to connect with the long-distance service.

Therefore the 0801 Twyford-Paddington (arr 0842) connecting into the 
0935 GNER is valid.  Whether or not a saver would be valid on the 0736 
from Twyford giving you more time to get to KX for the 0935, someone 
else can answer.

Paul Weaver wrote:

>>I'm interested in the specific answers, as well as the general principles.
> 
> What if the situation were reversed, a SVR from Leeds to TWY, what's
> the first train you could begin a return on?


GNER and Midland Mainline have different saver restrictions, so if 
getting into London as early as possible was important, your saver would 
be valid on the 0726 MML from Leeds-St Pancras (arr 1045).
If staying in bed was more important, the first GNER where savers are 
valid on is the 0905 (arr 1121).

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 07:46:11 +0100, Mark Morton
 wrote:


>Therefore the 0801 Twyford-Paddington (arr 0842) connecting into the 
>0935 GNER is valid.  Whether or not a saver would be valid on the 0736 
>from Twyford giving you more time to get to KX for the 0935, someone 
>else can answer.


When I lived in the 'Network Area' and needed to make such a journey,
I always caught an earlier connecting train than necessary, to ensure
I'd cross London in time, and was never challenged. If a valid time is
not specified, I would interpret things such that the 'customer' can
decide what is a suitable connection.

1577+2260 wrote:


>
> When I lived in the 'Network Area' and needed to make such a journey,
> I always caught an earlier connecting train than necessary, to ensure
> I'd cross London in time, and was never challenged. If a valid time is
> not specified, I would interpret things such that the 'customer' can
> decide what is a suitable connection.


See

http://atoc.org/traveltrade/manuals/nfm/sectione-pages1-17.pdf

page E8:

***********************
Saver tickets issued for journeys commencing within
the Network Area for travel via London are valid by
any train to London to connect with trains from London
on which they may be used.
Saver tickets issued for journeys commencing
outside the Network Area for travel via London, take
the restrictions from the origin station to London and
return. Unless shown otherwise they are unrestricted
between London and the destination station and
return.
***********************

Mark Morton wrote:

> Paul Weaver wrote:
> >>I'm interested in the specific answers, as well as the general principles.
> >
> > What if the situation were reversed, a SVR from Leeds to TWY, what's
> > the first train you could begin a return on?
>
> GNER and Midland Mainline have different saver restrictions, so if
> getting into London as early as possible was important, your saver would
> be valid on the 0726 MML from Leeds-St Pancras (arr 1045).
> If staying in bed was more important, the first GNER where savers are
> valid on is the 0905 (arr 1121).


Unless you pay a few pounds more for a business saver, which is valid
on the 0805 ex-Leeds. Interestingly, the add-on to the London fare
seems minimal for such journeys (e.g. East Grinstead £7 only).


-- 
Regards

Mike

On 7 Sep 2005 09:49:08 -0700, "Mike Roebuck" 
wrote:


>Unless you pay a few pounds more for a business saver, which is valid
>on the 0805 ex-Leeds. Interestingly, the add-on to the London fare
>seems minimal for such journeys (e.g. East Grinstead +=A37 only).


Beware!  The VT BVRs were more restricted than the SVRs in terms of
most things other than the specific train restrictions.  For example,
I believe they were routed VT only, and they certainly did not permit
break of journey in either direction - indeed I recall that they
required travel by direct train where possible.

I have no idea if this is still the case, nor if it applies to GNER's
version, though.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Mark Morton wrote:


> I've forgotten the wording, but it's something like if you're travelling 
> from a former Network South East station on to an long-distance service 
> (such as GNER) then the only ticket validity you have to worry about is 
> the long-distance bit but the leg of the journey from the former NSE 
> station must be to connect with the long-distance service.


What happens in the case of two long-distance services though? eg
Norwich to Bristol. Do both sets of restrictions apply, or neither, or
does it depend and need to be looked up individually for each case?

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Stevie D wrote:


> What happens in the case of two long-distance services though? eg
> Norwich to Bristol. Do both sets of restrictions apply, or neither, or
> does it depend and need to be looked up individually for each case?


See

http://atoc.org/traveltrade/manuals/nfm/sectione-pages20-29.pdf

Page E20:

*****************************
A Saver ticket from a station outside the Network Area to any station
via London is subject only to the validity of the
'TO LONDON' portion of the journey except where outward travel from
Swindon, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary via London
Euston and St Pancras is involved, when the restrictions described
above also apply.
*****************************

Neil Williams wrote:

> On 7 Sep 2005 09:49:08 -0700, "Mike Roebuck" 
> wrote:
> 
>>Unless you pay a few pounds more for a business saver, which is valid
>>on the 0805 ex-Leeds. Interestingly, the add-on to the London fare
>>seems minimal for such journeys (e.g. East Grinstead +=A37 only).
> 
> Beware!  The VT BVRs were more restricted than the SVRs in terms of
> most things other than the specific train restrictions.  For example,
> I believe they were routed VT only, and they certainly did not permit
> break of journey in either direction - indeed I recall that they
> required travel by direct train where possible.
> 
> I have no idea if this is still the case, nor if it applies to GNER's
> version, though.


AFAIK, GNER Business Savers have exactly the same terms and conditions 
as Savers except the time restrictions are more lenient.

In message , at 07:10:34 on Thu, 8 Sep 
2005, Mark Morton  remarked:

>AFAIK, GNER Business Savers have exactly the same terms and conditions 
>as Savers except the time restrictions are more lenient.


iirc GNER business savers have no restrictions in the evening, that's 
their main claim to fame.
-- 
Roland Perry

Neil Williams wrote:


> 
> I have no idea if this is still the case, nor if it applies to GNER's
> version, though.
> 


GNER's Business Saver are not GNER only. They're accepted for vaild 
routes via MML, for instance but with the same restrictions as Savers.

In message , at 18:53:32 on Sun, 11 
Sep 2005, Philip Hardy  remarked:

>GNER's Business Saver are not GNER only. They're accepted for vaild 
>routes via MML, for instance but with the same restrictions as Savers.


Not surprising as they are 50% more expensive.
-- 
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message , at 18:53:32 on Sun, 11
> Sep 2005, Philip Hardy  remarked:
> >GNER's Business Saver are not GNER only. They're accepted for vaild
> >routes via MML, for instance but with the same restrictions as Savers.
>
> Not surprising as they are 50% more expensive.


Shirley Knott!

The NFM thinks otherwise. Taking London to Leeds as an example, I find
the following fares for route Any Permitted. (The fares are set by
GNER.) Saver - GBP 75.50. Business Saver - GBP 79.50. And similarly for
Doncaster (59.00 and 67.50) and York (76.00 and 80.00) and Newcastle
(94.50 and 99.50).
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

In message , at 
02:12:15 on Mon, 12 Sep 2005, Pat Ricroft  
remarked:

>> >GNER's Business Saver are not GNER only. They're accepted for vaild
>> >routes via MML, for instance but with the same restrictions as Savers.
>>
>> Not surprising as they are 50% more expensive.
>
>Shirley Knott!
>
>The NFM thinks otherwise. Taking London to Leeds as an example, I find
>the following fares for route Any Permitted. (The fares are set by
>GNER.) Saver - GBP 75.50. Business Saver - GBP 79.50. And similarly for
>Doncaster (59.00 and 67.50) and York (76.00 and 80.00) and Newcastle
>(94.50 and 99.50).


Ah, sorry, I was misremembering and thought the GNER Business Saver was 
the same premium as MML's very similar "Flexi".
-- 
Roland Perry

On 12 Sep 2005 02:12:15 -0700, "Pat Ricroft" 
wrote:


>Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message , at 18:53:32 on Sun, 11
>> Sep 2005, Philip Hardy  remarked:
>> >GNER's Business Saver are not GNER only. They're accepted for vaild
>> >routes via MML, for instance but with the same restrictions as Savers.
>>
>> Not surprising as they are 50% more expensive.
>
>Shirley Knott!
>
>The NFM thinks otherwise. Taking London to Leeds as an example, I find
>the following fares for route Any Permitted. (The fares are set by
>GNER.) Saver - GBP 75.50. Business Saver - GBP 79.50. And similarly for
>Doncaster (59.00 and 67.50) and York (76.00 and 80.00) and Newcastle
>(94.50 and 99.50).


The Leeds - London Business Saver does indeed currently cost 79.50.
One from Leeds to East Grinstead costs 86.50. The small 7.00
difference is what surprised me.


-- 
 
Regards

Mike

mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet