I am spending a week in Kent later this year. I would like to get a good
look at the CTRL while I am there.  Where is the best viewing point from
a distance ie. looking from a Down?  Where can I get up close to view ES at
speed and close?
Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?
Where can I get a birds eye view of Dover harbour at work?
Rather off topic this one, I recollect seeing that a Russian submarine
was on display at one of the Channel ports.  Is it still?

Feel free to quote OS grid references.

Edward..

"Edward"  wrote in message 
news:aa3bc6a44d.eddien@freeuk.com...

>
> I am spending a week in Kent later this year. I would like to get a good
> look at the CTRL while I am there.  Where is the best viewing point from
> a distance ie. looking from a Down?  Where can I get up close to view ES 
> at
> speed and close?


One place is off the M2 at junction 3.  You will be able to see them coming 
out of Bluebell Hill tunnel and heading towards the Medway bridge and vice 
versa.
Multimap link: 
www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=51.3548&lon=0.4987&scale=25000&icon=x 
just to the left of where it says 'Rochester Airport'.


> Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?


Don't know.


> Where can I get a birds eye view of Dover harbour at work?


Don't know.


> Rather off topic this one, I recollect seeing that a Russian submarine
> was on display at one of the Channel ports.  Is it still?


Was at Folkestone, now moored on the River Medway very close to Strood 
Railway Station.  It can be seen from trains crossing Rochester bridge. Just 
to the left of the 'h' in 'Bridge Reach' at the following link:

www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=51.3934&lon=0.4997&scale=25000&icon=x

Alex


>
> Feel free to quote OS grid references.
>
> Edward.. 

"Edward"  wrote in message 
news:aa3bc6a44d.eddien@freeuk.com...

>
> I am spending a week in Kent later this year. I would like to get a good
> look at the CTRL while I am there.  Where is the best viewing point from
> a distance ie. looking from a Down?  Where can I get up close to view ES 
> at
> speed and close?
> Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?
> Where can I get a birds eye view of Dover harbour at work?
> Rather off topic this one, I recollect seeing that a Russian submarine
> was on display at one of the Channel ports.  Is it still?
>
> Feel free to quote OS grid references.
>
> Edward..


You should get a good view of Dover Harbour from the cliff road where the 
'White Cliffs Experince' is.

See 
http://multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=633000.022376393&Y=142000.154396077&width=500&height=300&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&zm=0&scale=25000&multimap.x=336&multimap.y=131


-- 
Regards


Vauxhall

Edward wrote:

> I am spending a week in Kent later this year. I would like to get a good
> look at the CTRL while I am there.  Where is the best viewing point from
> a distance ie. looking from a Down?  Where can I get up close to view ES at
> speed and close?


You can walk across one of the Medway Road Bridges which run parallel 
with the CTRL bridge. I'm not sure which bridge you can walk over, but 
if it's the middle one (there are two road bridges) next to the CTRL 
bridge and you are on that side of the bridge then you get pretty close 
and the road bridge is a bit higher than the CTRL bridge.


> Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?


Not sure - I am going for a walk on the Downs above the Cheriton 
terminal today, so I can report back (with photographs!) later.


> Where can I get a birds eye view of Dover harbour at work?


 From the White Cliffs, obviously! The top of the cliffs is a country 
park - if you're driving up there, you will need to pay for the car 
park, but you can park for free with a National Trust member's card. 
You'll get a grandstand view: 
http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/photo.php?p=39,3,80&s=803
or
http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/panoramas/dover_eastern_docks.jpg

If you are walking (assuming arriving by train to Dover Priory!) head 
east towards the port (follow the road signs). At the roundabout at the 
entrance to the port, the path heads up the cliff just above the port so 
that it goes underneath the road bridge.

Also worth trying is the views from Western Heights of the Western Docks 
(where the hovercraft used to go from).

While in Dover, I really recommend visiting the castle - fairly 
expensive without English Heritage membership, but it is a full day out. 
Lots of interesting things to look at, especially the wartime tunnels.

You could also visit Canterbury... ;)

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

"Jonathan Stott"  wrote in message 
news:dfe83i$k2i$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk...

> Edward wrote:
>> I am spending a week in Kent later this year. I would like to get a 
>> good
>> look at the CTRL while I am there.  Where is the best viewing point 
>> from
>> a distance ie. looking from a Down?  Where can I get up close to 
>> view ES at
>> speed and close?
>
> You can walk across one of the Medway Road Bridges which run 
> parallel with the CTRL bridge. I'm not sure which bridge you can 
> walk over, but if it's the middle one (there are two road bridges) 
> next to the CTRL bridge and you are on that side of the bridge then 
> you get pretty close and the road bridge is a bit higher than the 
> CTRL bridge.
>


AFAIK, the pedestrian walkway is on the "coast bound" of the Motorway 
bridges, and then is on the side away from the railway and 
london-bound bridges.

"Matt Wheeler"  wrote in message 
news:oICdnaQKPIJFMofeRVnyrw@pipex.net...

>
> "Jonathan Stott"  wrote in message 
> news:dfe83i$k2i$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk...
>> Edward wrote:
>>> I am spending a week in Kent later this year. I would like to get a good
>>> look at the CTRL while I am there.  Where is the best viewing point from
>>> a distance ie. looking from a Down?  Where can I get up close to view ES 
>>> at
>>> speed and close?
>>
>> You can walk across one of the Medway Road Bridges which run parallel 
>> with the CTRL bridge. I'm not sure which bridge you can walk over, but if 
>> it's the middle one (there are two road bridges) next to the CTRL bridge 
>> and you are on that side of the bridge then you get pretty close and the 
>> road bridge is a bit higher than the CTRL bridge.
>>
>
> AFAIK, the pedestrian walkway is on the "coast bound" of the Motorway 
> bridges, and then is on the side away from the railway and london-bound 
> bridges.
>
>

Edward,
Drop me a line off-group,and I'll give you as much gen as I can regarding 
Cheriton/Dover- I must have taken dozens of people around these over the 
past 15 years. Might even manage the addresses of a couple of decent eating 
houses..
Brian

"Jonathan Stott"  wrote in message
news:dfe83i$k2i$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk...

>
> You could also visit Canterbury... ;)


And Peter's Fish Factory on the seafront in Margate!

Best fish and chips in the country.
: )

In article <dfe83i$k2i$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk>, Jonathan Stott
 writes

>Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?
>
>Not sure - I am going for a walk on the Downs above the Cheriton 
>terminal today, so I can report back (with photographs!) later.


There is a narrow country lane running along the top of the downs
directly above the terminal. 
There is a popular layby just before the road drops down into trees at
the western end.
I frequented it several times also during the construction period.
Note I am not aware of any public transport in this area

From memory best road access is from the east end from the M20 go
through the road tunnel then take next exit immediately east of tunnel
turn right towards Folkestone then right again on minor road, follows
this through village and up hill
This is from memory I haven't been down that way for several years now.

To view the Ebbsfleet site. I have used the Londonbound platform at
Northfleet station
There is a footpath/bridleway crossing just beyond the south portal of
the North Downs Tunnel access from the A229 which links the M2 with the
M20. If travelling south it is over the hill but then you have to divert
onto the old road alignment then park and walk.
This was discovered during an excellent Modern Railways Magazine
organised coach tour.
 
-- 
Alan

"Alan Osborn"  wrote in message 
news:IU9tIEA59vGDFwXM@burwellmdw.demon.co.uk...

> In article <dfe83i$k2i$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk>, Jonathan Stott
>  writes
>>Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?
>>
>>Not sure - I am going for a walk on the Downs above the Cheriton
>>terminal today, so I can report back (with photographs!) later.
>
> There is a narrow country lane running along the top of the downs
> directly above the terminal.
> There is a popular layby just before the road drops down into trees at
> the western end.
> I frequented it several times also during the construction period.
> Note I am not aware of any public transport in this area
>
> From memory best road access is from the east end from the M20 go
> through the road tunnel then take next exit immediately east of tunnel
> turn right towards Folkestone then right again on minor road, follows
> this through village and up hill
> This is from memory I haven't been down that way for several years now.
>
> To view the Ebbsfleet site. I have used the Londonbound platform at
> Northfleet station
> There is a footpath/bridleway crossing just beyond the south portal of
> the North Downs Tunnel access from the A229 which links the M2 with the
> M20. If travelling south it is over the hill but then you have to divert
> onto the old road alignment then park and walk.
> This was discovered during an excellent Modern Railways Magazine
> organised coach tour.
>
> -- 
> Alan

To access Crete Road, which is the viewing point for the terminal:-
Take A20 through tunnel, as Alan suggests.
Take 1st turning, signposted 'Hawkinge'
At roundabout, turn left towards Folkestone.
Cross the A20 on the bridge, then take the 1st right turn after the bridge. 
Follow this road, passing some bungalows on your right. Just after the 
bungalows, there is a pre-Roman hillfort to your left, which affords some 
end-on views of trains approaching the portal. Opposite where you park to 
view the hill-fort site, the 'main' road swings towards the right. Follow 
this for about a mile, and you'll come to the viewing point that Alan 
describes. You can either return to the A20 via Peene and Newington (be 
aware that this is a very narrow road with few passing places) or return the 
way you have come.
For a good view over Dover, take the A20 again towards Dover. After passing 
the access for Shakespeare Cliff/Samphire Hoe, keep in the left-hand lane. 
As you descend towards Dover, you'll come to a roundabout- take a left turn, 
followed almost immediately by a right. Follow this road up the bank, and 
almost at the summit, you'll see a car park on your right. Pull in there. 
You're almost above Western Docks, with the Eastern Dock across the harbour 
from you. There are the vestiges of an old shore-battery next to the car 
park, which are quite interesting to visit- they're well labelled to show 
their salient features.
For fish and chips, I would recommend the chippie near junction 11, opposite 
the BP garage on the way into Cheriton. Unless you've a huge appetite, ask 
for a half-portion of chips, or you'll end up feeding the seagulls...
Hope the weather is like it's been for the past few days here.
Brian

BH Williams wrote:

> "Alan Osborn"  wrote in message 
> news:IU9tIEA59vGDFwXM@burwellmdw.demon.co.uk...
> 
>>In article <dfe83i$k2i$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk>, Jonathan Stott
>> writes
>>
>>>Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?
>>>Not sure - I am going for a walk on the Downs above the Cheriton
>>>terminal today, so I can report back (with photographs!) later.


Here they are:


>>There is a popular layby just before the road drops down into trees at
>>the western end.


Managed a fair panoramic shot of the terminal from here. Sadly it was 
very hazy, so results are only fair:
http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/panoramas/channel_tunnel_terminal.jpg


> Just after the 
> bungalows, there is a pre-Roman hillfort to your left, which affords some 
> end-on views of trains approaching the portal.


The view from here was slightly better. Also a nice place to have lunch 
with lots of Adonis Blue butterflies around today!
http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/4397


> For a good view over Dover, take the A20 again towards Dover. After passing 
> the access for Shakespeare Cliff/Samphire Hoe, keep in the left-hand lane. 
> As you descend towards Dover, you'll come to a roundabout- take a left turn, 
> followed almost immediately by a right. Follow this road up the bank, and 
> almost at the summit, you'll see a car park on your right. Pull in there. 
> You're almost above Western Docks, with the Eastern Dock across the harbour 
> from you. There are the vestiges of an old shore-battery next to the car 
> park, which are quite interesting to visit- they're well labelled to show 
> their salient features.


Western Docks from Western Heights: http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/4311

Drop Redobut is worth a nosey around. The car park and Grand Shaft 
staircase seemed very closed when I was there a few weeks ago.

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

"Jonathan Stott"  wrote in message 
news:dffdac$e42$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk...

> BH Williams wrote:
>> "Alan Osborn"  wrote in message 
>> news:IU9tIEA59vGDFwXM@burwellmdw.demon.co.uk...
>>
>>>In article <dfe83i$k2i$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk>, Jonathan Stott
>>> writes
>>>
>>>>Is there a viewing point for Cheriton terminal?
>>>>Not sure - I am going for a walk on the Downs above the Cheriton
>>>>terminal today, so I can report back (with photographs!) later.
>
> Here they are:
>
>>>There is a popular layby just before the road drops down into trees at
>>>the western end.
>
> Managed a fair panoramic shot of the terminal from here. Sadly it was very 
> hazy, so results are only fair:
> http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/panoramas/channel_tunnel_terminal.jpg
>
>> Just after the bungalows, there is a pre-Roman hillfort to your left, 
>> which affords some end-on views of trains approaching the portal.
>
> The view from here was slightly better. Also a nice place to have lunch 
> with lots of Adonis Blue butterflies around today!
> http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/4397
>
>> For a good view over Dover, take the A20 again towards Dover. After 
>> passing the access for Shakespeare Cliff/Samphire Hoe, keep in the 
>> left-hand lane. As you descend towards Dover, you'll come to a 
>> roundabout- take a left turn, followed almost immediately by a right. 
>> Follow this road up the bank, and almost at the summit, you'll see a car 
>> park on your right. Pull in there. You're almost above Western Docks, 
>> with the Eastern Dock across the harbour from you. There are the vestiges 
>> of an old shore-battery next to the car park, which are quite interesting 
>> to visit- they're well labelled to show their salient features.
>
> Western Docks from Western Heights: http://www.jstott.me.uk/photos/4311
>
> Drop Redobut is worth a nosey around. The car park and Grand Shaft 
> staircase seemed very closed when I was there a few weeks ago.
>
> -- 
> Jonathan Stott
> Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
> Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Nice day to be out....
BTW, do you have relations in Folkestone? I had a colleague by name of 
Stott- think she works in works train planning these days.
Brian

BH Williams wrote:


> Nice day to be out....
> BTW, do you have relations in Folkestone? I had a colleague by name of 
> Stott- think she works in works train planning these days.


Not as far as I'm aware - all my family is from Lancashire ;)

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

BH Williams wrote:

> There are the vestiges of an old shore-battery next to the car
> park, which are quite interesting to visit- they're well labelled to show 
> their *salient* features.


Very droll ...

There's no railway relics there unfortunately.

Oh, apart from the remains of the standard gauge(?) line that, did it 
zig-zag down the cliff face in its descent to the eastern dock 
breakwater(?). Its trackbed feels precarious to this day. Must have been 
the only zig zag line in the UK ...

> For fish and chips, I would recommend the chippie near junction 11, 
> opposite the BP garage on the way into Cheriton. Unless you've a huge 
> appetite, ask for a half-portion of chips, or you'll end up feeding the 
> seagulls...
> Hope the weather is like it's been for the past few days here.
> Brian

junc 12
james,
very nice doner kebab also

"John Doe"  wrote in message 
news:4cKSe.4791$vC4.4660@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

>> For fish and chips, I would recommend the chippie near junction 11, 
>> opposite the BP garage on the way into Cheriton. Unless you've a huge 
>> appetite, ask for a half-portion of chips, or you'll end up feeding the 
>> seagulls...
>> Hope the weather is like it's been for the past few days here.
>> Brian
> junc 12
> james,
> very nice doner kebab also

Sorry- I tend normally to refer to it as 'the Tesco roundabout'. Haven't yet 
tried the kebabs.
Brian

> 

"Mark Annand"  wrote in message 
news:431b6190$0$31495$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...

> BH Williams wrote:
>> There are the vestiges of an old shore-battery next to the car
>> park, which are quite interesting to visit- they're well labelled to show 
>> their *salient* features.
>
> Very droll ...
>
> There's no railway relics there unfortunately.
>
> Oh, apart from the remains of the standard gauge(?) line that, did it 
> zig-zag down the cliff face in its descent to the eastern dock 
> breakwater(?). Its trackbed feels precarious to this day. Must have been 
> the only zig zag line in the UK ...
>
>
>

I thought rail access to Eastern Docks had been via a tramway-type line 
along the promenade- I've certainly seen photos of an R1 (and also a Drewery 
IIRC) trundling along there. There was, at one time, some sort of aerial 
ropeway from some sidings above Eastern Dock to the quay, built to convey 
coal during the optimistic early days of the East Kent coalfield. There may 
be something about this at the Dover Transport Museum, which is situated 
near the De Bradlei Wharf shopping centre (to my shame , I've never visited, 
and have no idea of hours of opening etc)
One curious feature at the Western Heights end was a tunnel from the 
barracks near the Battery, allowing troops to march directly to a platform 
situated near the sharp curve on the Dover Priory- Folkestone line. During 
WW2, it served as an air-raid shelter for railway staff from Dover Town 
shed. The shed site is the flat area behind the beach as you look down from 
the top.
Brian

In article <dfhqcv$fp9$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>,
BH Williams  wrote:

>>
>> Oh, apart from the remains of the standard gauge(?) line that, did it 
>> zig-zag down the cliff face in its descent to the eastern dock 
>> breakwater(?). Its trackbed feels precarious to this day. Must have been 
>> the only zig zag line in the UK ...


Not nearly. There were certainly other examples - the one I can think of 
immediately was on the S&D, later NER Rosedale branch in North Yorkshire,
but there were others.

As to Dover - how accessible is the turret on Admiralty Pier these days?
That's a significant survival of Victorian technology..

-- 
Andy Breen ~ 	Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
		Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
		 money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

"Andrew Robert Breen"  wrote in message 
news:dfhrfg$dd4f$1@central.aber.ac.uk...

> In article <dfhqcv$fp9$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>,
> BH Williams  wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh, apart from the remains of the standard gauge(?) line that, did it
>>> zig-zag down the cliff face in its descent to the eastern dock
>>> breakwater(?). Its trackbed feels precarious to this day. Must have been
>>> the only zig zag line in the UK ...
>
> Not nearly. There were certainly other examples - the one I can think of
> immediately was on the S&D, later NER Rosedale branch in North Yorkshire,
> but there were others.
>
> As to Dover - how accessible is the turret on Admiralty Pier these days?
> That's a significant survival of Victorian technology..
>
> -- 
> Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, 
> Aberystwyth
> Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
> money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

I think you can still walk down to it, as the Admiralty Quay breakwater is a 
popular spot with the local anglers. I had a look around the interior once 
when photographing the train ferry- the breech and trunnions are still in 
place, IIRC. I believe that it was a less than successful idea due to 
limited movement in slew and elevation- this meant that only a small area of 
the Straits of Dover could be covered.
Brian

BH Williams wrote:


>>There's no railway relics there unfortunately.
>>
>>Oh, apart from the remains of the standard gauge(?) line that, did it 
>>zig-zag down the cliff face in its descent to the eastern dock 
>>breakwater(?). Its trackbed feels precarious to this day. Must have been 
>>the only zig zag line in the UK ...
>>
>>
>>
> 
> I thought rail access to Eastern Docks had been via a tramway-type line 
> along the promenade- I've certainly seen photos of an R1 (and also a Drewery 
> IIRC) trundling along there. There was, at one time, some sort of aerial 
> ropeway from some sidings above Eastern Dock to the quay, built to convey 
> coal during the optimistic early days of the East Kent coalfield.


The aerial conveyor ran from Tilmanstone Colliery to the docks, 
tunneling down through the chalk to access them, there's details of it 
on a dover web site and I think a few remains of the thing too - as well 
as the rather obvious pair of tunnel mouths half way up a cliff. It 
didn't see much use.

The zig zag railway down the cliffs was in addition to the line along 
the promenade - I think it preceded it and was used to bring in 
materials to construct the breakwater. Unless it was something to do 
with the rail served defences that lie between Dover and St Margarets 
bay. The cutting carrying the spur had sleepers down in it in the 
nineteen seventies so they'll still be there pushing up mushrooms.

However as the granite for the Dover Breakwaters came I think out of a 
large hole in the ground (still there) at Gunnislake in Cornwall, they'd 
have surely have brought that by river and sea ...

Mark

In article <dfhush$t2f$1$830fa79f@news.demon.co.uk>,
BH Williams  wrote:

>
>"Andrew Robert Breen"  wrote in message 
>news:dfhrfg$dd4f$1@central.aber.ac.uk...
>>
>> As to Dover - how accessible is the turret on Admiralty Pier these days?
>> That's a significant survival of Victorian technology..

>I think you can still walk down to it, as the Admiralty Quay breakwater is a 
>popular spot with the local anglers. I had a look around the interior once 


Ah - interesting. I must get myself down that way for a look at it.


>when photographing the train ferry- the breech and trunnions are still in


Not a "breech" in the conventional sense - those brutes were 
muzzle-loaders..
 

>place, IIRC. I believe that it was a less than successful idea due to 
>limited movement in slew and elevation- this meant that only a small area of 
>the Straits of Dover could be covered.


I doubt if it was ever intended to cover more than the harbour entrance
when new. Given the slewing gear, the powder and the rifling design
of the day hitting a moving target much over 1000 yards away would
have been an act of $DEITY. Of course, you could still pitch big lumps
of iron into the wide blue yonder, but that was strictly for frightening
seabirds...

-- 
Andy Breen ~ 	Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
		Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
		 money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

"Andrew Robert Breen"  wrote in message 
news:dfi4c9$dk4p$1@central.aber.ac.uk...

> In article <dfhush$t2f$1$830fa79f@news.demon.co.uk>,
> BH Williams  wrote:
>>
>>"Andrew Robert Breen"  wrote in message
>>news:dfhrfg$dd4f$1@central.aber.ac.uk...
>>>
>>> As to Dover - how accessible is the turret on Admiralty Pier these days?
>>> That's a significant survival of Victorian technology..
>
>>I think you can still walk down to it, as the Admiralty Quay breakwater is 
>>a
>>popular spot with the local anglers. I had a look around the interior once
>
> Ah - interesting. I must get myself down that way for a look at it.
>
>>when photographing the train ferry- the breech and trunnions are still in
>
> Not a "breech" in the conventional sense - those brutes were
> muzzle-loaders..
>
>>place, IIRC. I believe that it was a less than successful idea due to
>>limited movement in slew and elevation- this meant that only a small area 
>>of
>>the Straits of Dover could be covered.
>
> I doubt if it was ever intended to cover more than the harbour entrance
> when new. Given the slewing gear, the powder and the rifling design
> of the day hitting a moving target much over 1000 yards away would
> have been an act of $DEITY. Of course, you could still pitch big lumps
> of iron into the wide blue yonder, but that was strictly for frightening
> seabirds...
>
> -- 
> Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, 
> Aberystwyth
> Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
> money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

Not sure that it could be slewed to cover the harbour entrance..
As I recollect the range was several miles- accuracy was something else 
entirely.
Brian