Dear all,

Just to let you know the latest accident reports which have been added
to the railways archive (www.railwaysarchive.co.uk) include Salisbury
1906, Southall, Bexley, King's Cross and Cannon St. The last four are
courtesy of Ian Brightmore.

On a related front, we are most of the way through a database/interface
rejig to place more emphasis on accidents. We now have a searchable
accident map using the Google Maps API; see
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php?view=map . The
latitude/longitude data is incomplete at the moment, but click on one
of the accident markers, then click on the accident bubble, and you are
taken to a summary page with all associated documents. All comments
gratefully recieved...

I love the map. Very Interesting

GazK wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Just to let you know the latest accident reports which have been added
> to the railways archive (www.railwaysarchive.co.uk) include Salisbury
> 1906, Southall, Bexley, King's Cross and Cannon St. The last four are
> courtesy of Ian Brightmore.
>
> On a related front, we are most of the way through a database/interface
> rejig to place more emphasis on accidents. We now have a searchable
> accident map using the Google Maps API; see
> http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php?view=map . The
> latitude/longitude data is incomplete at the moment, but click on one
> of the accident markers, then click on the accident bubble, and you are
> taken to a summary page with all associated documents. All comments
> gratefully recieved...


Wouldn't it be interesting if the same thing were done with road
accident statistics. Might make people think.

wrote in message 
news:1126176376.731375.210670@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> GazK wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Just to let you know the latest accident reports which have been added
>> to the railways archive (www.railwaysarchive.co.uk) include Salisbury
>> 1906, Southall, Bexley, King's Cross and Cannon St. The last four are
>> courtesy of Ian Brightmore.
>>
>> On a related front, we are most of the way through a database/interface
>> rejig to place more emphasis on accidents. We now have a searchable
>> accident map using the Google Maps API; see
>> http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php?view=map . The
>> latitude/longitude data is incomplete at the moment, but click on one
>> of the accident markers, then click on the accident bubble, and you are
>> taken to a summary page with all associated documents. All comments
>> gratefully recieved...


Excellent site. Reading railway accident reports is fascinating: to see the 
thoroughness of the investigation of the crash site and in many cases the 
combination of sometimes trivial human factors that combine together to 
cause the accident. And to see what lessons are learned that leads to fixes 
either in something physical (like the catches on the battery box door in 
the West Drayton accident or the slide-bar retaining pins on the Settle 
steam loco) or else procedural (supervision of signalling staff at Clapham 
Junction; the need to remind signalmen of the presence of your train - 
Quintinshill and many others).



> Wouldn't it be interesting if the same thing were done with road
> accident statistics. Might make people think.


I think it would be the analysis of the causes rather than the statistics 
that would be really illuminating.

I'd be interested to know what proportion of accidents are actually caused 
by driving too fast (ie losing control on a bend, like a train coming off 
the rails on a curve) and what proportion are caused by drivers who don't 
have priority at a junction pulling out in front of a car that may or may 
not be exceeding a speed limit.

My gut feeling is that the latter would be the much more common situation, 
though I may be wrong. If it is the case that many accidents are caused by 
drivers who don't have priority, then restricting the speed of drivers who 
do have priority is the wrong solution. To continue the train analogy, you 
don't tend to impose speed restrictions at junctions because drivers have 
SPADded in the past and you need to increase the chance of a train being 
able to stop if someone else SPADs against you. Instead you punish the 
SPADder. Shame it's not often the case for road users.

As a car driver I've noticed that the incidence of "SPADding car drivers" 
(for want of a nice simple term for them) is no less in heavily restricted 
roads than high-speed roads - all that happens is that drivers leave it till 
later to pull out in slower traffic. The ability of the "innocent" driver to 
stop in time to avoid the accident is no less.

I tend to think in terms of any moving vehicle carrying an invisible 
"stopping distance" stretch of road in front of it. The size of that 
distance increases with the sqaure of the speed (kinetic energy=mv^2) - and 
also it the road is wet or icy. If any other vehicle, pedestrian etc 
"invades" that stopping distance, it *will* be hit. We need to be training 
*all* road users of that fact: by reducing speeds, all you do is make the 
distance smaller - but then people leave it later before they cross or pull 
out in front of you...

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:25:51 +0100 someone who may be "Martin
Underwood"  wrote this:-


>Reading railway accident reports is fascinating: to see the 
>thoroughness of the investigation of the crash site


Agreed.

The contrast with
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/4224968.stm is
illuminating.

================================================================

Six men have been killed in a crash involving two cars on a main
road near a Hampshire village. 

The vehicles collided on the A31 at Ropley near the Chequers Inn pub
on Wednesday night. [snip]

Locals said the road, now reopened, was not known as an accident
blackspot. Police have appealed for witnesses. 

================================================================

Apparently no need to close the road for days/weeks/months, despite
it being, "the worst collision I have attended for the total number
of casualties."


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In message 
          David Hansen  wrote:


> On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:25:51 +0100 someone who may be "Martin
> Underwood"  wrote this:-
> 
> >Reading railway accident reports is fascinating: to see the 
> >thoroughness of the investigation of the crash site
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> The contrast with
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/4224968.stm is
> illuminating.
> 
> ================================================================
> 
> Six men have been killed in a crash involving two cars on a main
> road near a Hampshire village. 
> 
> The vehicles collided on the A31 at Ropley near the Chequers Inn pub
> on Wednesday night. [snip]
> 
> Locals said the road, now reopened, was not known as an accident
> blackspot. Police have appealed for witnesses. 
> 
> ================================================================
> 
> Apparently no need to close the road for days/weeks/months, despite
> it being, "the worst collision I have attended for the total number
> of casualties."
> 
> 


Exactly what would you achieve by closing the road for 'days/weeks/months'?
Two cars are unlikely to cause the sort of damage to the road surface that
would require closure for that period of time.  The number of casualties is
irrelevant.

3 people died recently on the main line out of Paddington, again damage to
the infrastructure was minimal.  I an not aware that the line has been shut
for 'days/weeks/months' so just what is your point, assuming you have one?

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:47:35 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
 wrote this:-


>Exactly what would you achieve by closing the road for 'days/weeks/months'?


Why ask me? I am not the person who closes railway lines for
days/weeks/months.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In message 
          David Hansen  wrote:


> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:47:35 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
>  wrote this:-
> 
> > Exactly what would you achieve by closing the road for
> > 'days/weeks/months'?
> 
> Why ask me? I am not the person who closes railway lines for
> days/weeks/months.
> 
> 
> 


You are the one complaining that roads aren't, but then playing with words is
your standard response when you don't have an answer.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

On 8/9/05 11:46, "philipuk@gmail.com"  wrote:

>
>> 
>> On a related front, we are most of the way through a database/interface
>> rejig to place more emphasis on accidents. We now have a searchable
>> accident map using the Google Maps API; see
>> http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php?view=map . The
>> latitude/longitude data is incomplete at the moment, but click on one
>> of the accident markers, then click on the accident bubble, and you are
>> taken to a summary page with all associated documents. All comments
>> gratefully recieved...
> 
> Wouldn't it be interesting if the same thing were done with road
> accident statistics.
> 


It is... Your local Highway Authority does exactly that and will, if you ask
them nicely, give you summary details.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:16:05 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
 wrote this:-


>> Why ask me? I am not the person who closes railway lines for
>> days/weeks/months.
>
>You are the one complaining that roads aren't,


I simply make the comparison. So far nobody has come up with a
convincing explanation for the difference.


>but then playing with words


If you wish to characterise discussion as "playing with words" then
why take part yourself?


>is your standard response when you don't have an answer.


An interesting assertion.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Yes but this is not in a form easily accessible to the public. If it
were put on a website in a clear pleasing to the eye mapped format,
somewhere people could casually browse it, lots would.

Philip

In message 
          David Hansen  wrote:


> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:16:05 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
>  wrote this:-
> 
> >> Why ask me? I am not the person who closes railway lines for
> >> days/weeks/months.
> >
> >You are the one complaining that roads aren't,
> 
> I simply make the comparison. So far nobody has come up with a
> convincing explanation for the difference.


What difference?  The A32 was closed for several hours, the GWML for rather
less.  The railway should have been closed for longer to create a level
playing field perhaps?

> 
> >but then playing with words
> 
> If you wish to characterise discussion as "playing with words" then
> why take part yourself?


I didn't characterise discussion as "playing with words" but thank you for
naking my point.


> 
> >is your standard response when you don't have an answer.
> 
> An interesting assertion.
> 
> 


Glad you find it so.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:22:10 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
 wrote this:-


>The A32 was closed for several hours,


How many? The mass media reports I saw were not specific.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In message 
          David Hansen  wrote:


> On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:22:10 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
>  wrote this:-
> 
> >The A32 was closed for several hours,
> 
> How many? The mass media reports I saw were not specific.
> 
> 


Thr ones I saw weren't specific either, they just said several hours,
although I believe the Sun stated 10 hours.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>