Just curious. They look the same to me (bar the TOC logos and other fit
&
finish stuff)

B2003

Boltar wrote:


> Just curious. They look the same to me (bar the TOC logos and other fit
> &
> finish stuff)
> 
> B2003


The couplings.

-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

"The Doctor"  wrote in message 
news:Fh1Se.93369$WN5.46492@fe02.news.easynews.com...

> Boltar wrote:
>
>> Just curious. They look the same to me (bar the TOC logos and other 
>> fit
>> &
>> finish stuff)
>>
>> B2003
>
> The couplings.
>


Not any more... haven't South Eastern had theirs fitted with the same 
couplings as Southern's 377s have ?
Originally, yes, the difference was the coupler, but, afaik, no 
longer, the only difference I can think of is livery and (probably) 
software versions on the on-board computer systems.

377s also have external cameras mounted by the driver's cab to enable
the driver to see along the train - that's the only visible difference
AFAIK. This gives a slightly different profile.

billetelic_ferroequinologist@hotmail.com wrote:

> 377s also have external cameras mounted by the driver's cab to enable
> the driver to see along the train - that's the only visible difference
> AFAIK. This gives a slightly different profile.
> 

Of course there are elements of differing maintenance. I remember 
hearing that Southern had come up with a different method of selective 
door opening than SET. I was not convinced they were working together as 
much as they should, for this reason the computer software is likely to 
be incompatible between them as well, so there would be some work 
required to convert one to the other.

Chris

Chris Fribbins wrote:


> Of course there are elements of differing maintenance. I remember
> hearing that Southern had come up with a different method of selective
> door opening than SET.


AFAIK there are at least 2 different SDO packages for three different
unit software packages just within SN 377s.

Last time I looked, with some help fromm others, we reckoned there were
19 diffferent versions of 375/377 excluding loo differecnes that none
of us really wish to audit.

Today SN has more versions of 377s than existed for assorted Cig/Big of
*all* types over their entire lives from 1965 to 2005.

Who says things get more standardised ???

--
Nick

er.. 2

"Boltar"  wrote in message 
news:1125686862.659243.39230@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Just curious. They look the same to me (bar the TOC logos and other fit
> &
> finish stuff)
>
> B2003
> 

D7666 wrote:

>
> AFAIK there are at least 2 different SDO packages for three different
> unit software packages just within SN 377s.


The SDO packages are identical throughout the 375 and 377 fleets. There
are two variants of GPS receiver and they are also to be standardised
across both classes. The original units suffered from poor satellite
acquisition times when they came out from a blind spot or tunnel


> Last time I looked, with some help fromm others, we reckoned there were
> 19 diffferent versions of 375/377 excluding loo differecnes that none
> of us really wish to audit.


Are there?

SET, 4 car low density units, 3 car low density units, 4 car high
density units. 4 car dual voltage subclass

Southern: 3 car and 4 car high density units (dont know about 4 car low
density units) 3 car dual voltage subclass.

That totals 7 types that I'm aware of. Perhaps you can expand upon the
19 different versions.

By the way, by the end of the year all 375/7s will run common software.
Southern are presently one release behind SET.

 
Richard

RBCatlow@aol.com wrote:

> D7666 wrote:
> >
> > AFAIK there are at least 2 different SDO packages for three different
> > unit software packages just within SN 377s.
>
> The SDO packages are identical throughout the 375 and 377 fleets.



My bad wording, I should have said SDO databases.

377M run A6 and 377 non-M run A5 - the differences are great enough
that running in multiple to avoided as far as possible.



> SET, 4 car low density units, 3 car low density units, 4 car high
> density units. 4 car dual voltage subclass
>
> Southern: 3 car and 4 car high density units (dont know about 4 car low
> density units) 3 car dual voltage subclass.
>
> That totals 7 types that I'm aware of. Perhaps you can expand upon the
> 19 different versions.


If one accepts that Phase 1 and Phase 2 Cigs could be regarded as
different because of different seat styles and because of different
drivers desks, it is very easy to get to todays 375/377 situation.

There are 4 different types of 377/1 with different seat layouts, some
all 2+2, some mixed 2+3 but in different mixes when you compare like
car for like car in different number ranges.

377/4 is divided into 2 groups 377M allocated to SU and 377 non M
allocated to BI. Different types for diagramming. Apart fron SDO A5 and
A6, 377M have active internal CCTV, 377 is inoperative.

377/2 have 2 groups as although all are AC equipped all are not AC
operative ans they are regarded as 2 different 'classes' for
diagramming.

And so on.

The full list unit by unit breakdown is on the yahoo electrostar group
and Ithink may also have appeared in LIVE RAIL.


--
Nick

>377/2 have 2 groups as although all are AC equipped all are not AC
>operative ans they are regarded as 2 different 'classes' for
>diagramming


Does that mean one lot simply haven't been tested yet on
the AC lines or that they're "broken" so to speak?

B2003

Boltar wrote:

> >377/2 have 2 groups as although all are AC equipped all are not AC
> >operative ans they are regarded as 2 different 'classes' for
> >diagramming
>
> Does that mean one lot simply haven't been tested yet on
> the AC lines or that they're "broken" so to speak?


No, it is deliberate.

There are rather more 377/2 than diagrams needed - presumably as a
result of 15 units ordered to cover Brighton Rugby and eventually
Birmingham, but since cut back to Watford Junction.

The individual 377/2s are apparently rotated, or will be rotated, to
balance mileage (so it is said). The last list I have was from July
with 377 201/03/07/08/10/11/13/15 AC active, the rest DC only.

It is only a software change, the hardware is all there. But it does
make for a different type of 377 (the point of my comment originally)
even if it is not reflected by a class number.

--
Nick

D7666 wrote:

> 
> There are rather more 377/2 than diagrams needed - presumably as a
> result of 15 units ordered to cover Brighton Rugby and eventually
> Birmingham, but since cut back to Watford Junction.
> 
> The individual 377/2s are apparently rotated, or will be rotated, to
> balance mileage (so it is said). The last list I have was from July
> with 377 201/03/07/08/10/11/13/15 AC active, the rest DC only.


It looks like some rotation has occurred; 377 212 was observed at South
Kenton on 31 August.

-- 
John Ray, London UK.

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 20:39:53 +0100, D7666  wrote:


>
> Boltar wrote:
>> >377/2 have 2 groups as although all are AC equipped all are not AC
>> >operative ans they are regarded as 2 different 'classes' for
>> >diagramming
>>
>> Does that mean one lot simply haven't been tested yet on
>> the AC lines or that they're "broken" so to speak?
>
> No, it is deliberate.
>
> There are rather more 377/2 than diagrams needed - presumably as a
> result of 15 units ordered to cover Brighton Rugby and eventually
> Birmingham, but since cut back to Watford Junction.


I think that there may well in theory be more 377s than diagrams for the  
other sub-classes too.
As well as the Brighton to Rugby service being cut back to Watford  
Junction the London Vic to Bournemouth service has been cut back to  
Southampton.
In December the Brighton to Hastings Fast service will become part of  
Brighton to Ashford so class 171s will be used.

The only compensating service that I can think of is London Vic to East  
Grinstead which i think was planned for 319s but is instead 377s

Paul

>There are rather more 377/2 than diagrams needed - >presumably as a
>result of 15 units ordered to cover Brighton Rugby and >eventually
>Birmingham, but since cut back to Watford Junction.


Presumably these wouldn't be a Southern or South
Eastern service if they went all the way to rugby?
Which TOC would get them?

B2003

"Boltar"  wrote in message
news:1126297809.391854.67950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> >There are rather more 377/2 than diagrams needed - >presumably as a
> >result of 15 units ordered to cover Brighton Rugby and >eventually
> >Birmingham, but since cut back to Watford Junction.
>
> Presumably these wouldn't be a Southern or South
> Eastern service if they went all the way to rugby?
> Which TOC would get them?
>

They would have been a Southern service. Connex Southcentral started the
Brighton - Rugby through service, using 319s, and had ambitions to run
through to Birmingham. While this service was running the 377/2s were
ordered, but the SRA, trying to sort out the WCML, insisted that the service
was cut back to Watford Junction.

Peter

On 9 Sep 2005 13:30:09 -0700, Boltar wrote in
, seen in
uk.railway:


> >There are rather more 377/2 than diagrams needed - >presumably as a
> >result of 15 units ordered to cover Brighton Rugby and eventually
> >Birmingham, but since cut back to Watford Junction.
> 
> Presumably these wouldn't be a Southern or South
> Eastern service if they went all the way to rugby?


They were South Central when they were originally introduced, which is
Southern today.

-- 
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)
Hon. Pres., National Soc. for the Encouragement for Cruelty to Dogboxes
Proud to be the target of various trolls, sock puppets and other idiots