Hi gang,

Well it's nearly that time of the year again, so here we go with a brief
summary of the currently proposed alterations for December (details
gleaned from the ORR website, where the relevant Track Access
Applications are listed, all Section 22 or Section 22a jobbies).

The following are in the order they appear on the ORR site:

First/Keolis Transpennine: Paths for Class 185 type testing and train
crew training. Full timings available in the "Appendix" on the ORR site.

Hull Trains: Proposed 0812 departure from Hull, arriving Kings Cross
1056. Increase to 6 firm slots each way on weekdays, 5 on Saturdays
(except where pathing is impossible for the additional slot), 2 on
Sundays. 

c2c:-

Up Direction:

SX Off Peak

1600 Shoeburyness - Fenchurch Street via Laindon withdrawn
1644 Shoeburyness - Fenchurch Street via Laindon starts from Southend C
1653 and 1719 Grays - Fenchurch Street via Ockendon withdrawn
1653 and 1724 Pitsea - Fenchurch Street via Rainham retimed and diverted
via Ockendon
Additional services at 1653 and 1828 Grays - Fenchurch Street via
Rainham
Additional service 1719 Stanford Le Hope - Fenchurch Street via Rainham
2040 Shoeburyness - Fenchurch Street via Ockendon starts from Southend
Central
1722 Stanford Le Hope - Fenchurch Street via Ockendon withdrawn

Saturday

From 18.46 until 22.46 (Ex 18.50 until 23.02) Grays – Barking via
Rainham services are extended to Fenchurch Street (9 trains)
From 05.20 until 22.50 Southend Central – Fenchurch Street via Ockendon
services will start from Pitsea (36 trains)
23.15 Shoeburyness – Upminster via Ockendon – withdrawn
Additional service 23.36 Pitsea – Upminster via Ockendon

Sunday

06.10 & 07.10 Shoeburyness – Fenchurch Street via Ockendon will start at
Pitsea
From 08.20 until 22.20 Southend Central – Fenchurch Street via Ockendon
services will start from Pitsea (27 trains)
20.50 Southend Central – Barking via Ockendon will start at Pitsea

Down Direction:

SX Peak

16.00 Fenchurch Street – Southend Central via Laindon is extended to
Shoeburyness
18.22 Fenchurch Street – Grays via Ockendon is extended to Stanford
Le Hope

SX Off Peak

19.08 Fenchurch Street – Pitsea via Rainham will terminate at Grays
15.20 Fenchurch Street – Shoeburyness via Ockendon will terminate at
Southend Central
19.50 Fenchurch Street – Thorpe Bay via Ockendon will terminate at
Southend Central
19.03 Fenchurch Street – Grays via Ockendon is extended to Pitsea

Saturday

23.30 Barking – Shoeburyness via Rainham will start at Fenchurch Street
Additional service 23.35 Fenchurch Street – Shoeburyness via Rainham
23.50 Fenchurch Street – Shoeburyness via Rainham is diverted via
Ockendon
From 19.05 until 22.35 Barking – Grays services via Rainham will start
from Fenchurch Street (8 trains)
21.20 & 21.50 Fenchurch Street – Shoeburyness via Ockendon will
terminate at Pitsea
From 05.50 to 20.50 Fenchurch Street – Southend Central via Ockendon
will terminate at Pitsea. (31 trains)

Sunday

20.50 Fenchurch Street – Southend Central via Ockendon is extended to
Shoeburyness
21.20 Fenchurch Street – Shoeburyness via Ockendon terminates at Pitsea
07.50, 08.50, 09.50, 10.20 until 20.20 Fenchurch Street – Southend
Central via Ockendon will terminate at Pitsea. (24 trains)
07.05, 08.35, 09.35 Barking – Southend Central via Ockendon will
terminate at Pitsea

Northern Rail: Oldham Loop down to 2tph again from 19th September until
10th December. Service after that uncertain...

First ScotRail: Reversion to Class 322 operation on North Berwick
services.

'one':-

Minor changes to GE Outer timetable including an additional SX service
between Colchester and Colchester Town, an additional SX service between
Colchester and Ipswich, and two additional services between Ipswich and
Colchester.

On Anglia Rural routes, an hourly service between Norwich and Great
Yarmouth will operate on Sundays with 16 trains all year round compared
to the current 10 winter/14 summer. Acle and Lingwood will now open all
year round and be served by a two hourly service. Also an additional
service Norwich to Sheringham and return.

On West Anglia Inner and Outer routes, new services between Stratford
and Stansted Airport (SO and SX), revised calling patterns for services
between Hertford East and Liverpool Street, Enfield Town and Liverpool
Street, and for Sunday services between Liverpool Street and Cambridge.

Breaking this down:

12 Off-Peak SX Stratford - Stansted Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
16 Saturday Stratford - Stansted Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
 6 Off-Peak SX Stratford - Bishops Stortford Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
 1 Saturday Stratford - Bishops Stortford Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
11 Off-Peak SX Stansted - Stratford Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
17 Saturday Stansted - Stratford Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
 6 Off-Peak SX Bishops Stortford - Stratford Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
 1 Saturday Bishops Stortford - Stratford Semi-Fast via Brimsdown
 3 Off-Peak SX Stratford - Hertford East Stopping via Brimsdown
 3 Off-Peak SX Stratford - Broxbourne Stopping via Brimsdown
 1 Saturday Stratford - Enfield Town Stopping via 7 Sisters
 4 Off-Peak SX Hertford East - Stratford Stopping via Brimsdown
 3 Off-Peak SX Broxbourne - Stratford Stopping via Brimsdown

NB: Current Liverpool Street - Hertford East via 7 Sisters services will
be cut back to run to/from Cheshunt, with Hertford East stopping
services diverted to run via Brimsdown.

GNER:-

Additional service. 0615SX Peterborough - Kings Cross, arriving 0709.

First Great Western Link: 45 additional rights in 9 different Train
Service Codes, with 65 reductions in rights in 9 different Train Service
Codes.

First Great Western: Additional train. 1813SX Paddington to Westbury via
Hungerford.

Wessex Trains: Transfer of certain Arriva Trains Wales rights between
Cardiff and Penzance to Wessex, additional return service on Exmouth
branch (Mon-Sat), and two on Saturdays to bring them into line with
weekdays, and two additional return services on the St. Ives branch
Mondays to Saturdays.

Arriva Trains Wales: Standard Pattern Timetable across all service
groups Mondays - Saturdays, and where possible on Sundays.

And that's the lot for now. Obviously, these are all subject to contract
at present, but it's a fairly good indication of what's happening in
December.

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:32:03 +0100, Barry Salter
 wrote:


>'one':-
>
>On West Anglia Inner and Outer routes, new services between Stratford
>and Stansted Airport (SO and SX), revised calling patterns for services
>between Hertford East and Liverpool Street, Enfield Town and Liverpool
>Street, and for Sunday services between Liverpool Street and Cambridge.
>
>NB: Current Liverpool Street - Hertford East via 7 Sisters services will
>be cut back to run to/from Cheshunt, with Hertford East stopping
>services diverted to run via Brimsdown.
>

Further to this, on Sundays, there will be no service on the Southbury
Loop (i.e. to Southbury, Turkey Street and Theobalds Grove). All trains
via Seven Sisters (32 Up, 33 Down) will run to and from Enfield Town. 

In addition, First and Last trains will be revised. First train from
Liverpool Street to Enfield Town will be at 0603 Mon to Sat, 0830 Sun
(Currently 0550SX, 0555SO, 0658SuO) and last will be 2333 Mon to Sat,
2300 Sun (Currently 2355 Mon to Sat, 2258 Sun); and in the other
direction 0553SX, 0623SO, 0844SuO (Currently 0558SX, 0604SO, 0752SuO)
and 2353 Mon to Sat, 2314 Sun (Currently 2334 Mon to Sat, 2254 Sun).

I fail to see the logic of making the last train *to* London 20 minutes
later than at present, and the last train *from* London 20 minutes
earlier...

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

"Barry Salter"  wrote in message
news:dpefh1512nttk6fe4kahnr9ttunmjj5hv0@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:32:03 +0100, Barry Salter
>  wrote:
>
> >'one':-
> >
> >On West Anglia Inner and Outer routes, new services between Stratford
> >and Stansted Airport (SO and SX), revised calling patterns for services
> >between Hertford East and Liverpool Street, Enfield Town and Liverpool
> >Street, and for Sunday services between Liverpool Street and Cambridge.
> >
> >NB: Current Liverpool Street - Hertford East via 7 Sisters services will
> >be cut back to run to/from Cheshunt, with Hertford East stopping
> >services diverted to run via Brimsdown.
> >
> Further to this, on Sundays, there will be no service on the Southbury
> Loop (i.e. to Southbury, Turkey Street and Theobalds Grove). All trains
> via Seven Sisters (32 Up, 33 Down) will run to and from Enfield Town.
>
> In addition, First and Last trains will be revised. First train from
> Liverpool Street to Enfield Town will be at 0603 Mon to Sat, 0830 Sun
> (Currently 0550SX, 0555SO, 0658SuO) and last will be 2333 Mon to Sat,
> 2300 Sun (Currently 2355 Mon to Sat, 2258 Sun); and in the other
> direction 0553SX, 0623SO, 0844SuO (Currently 0558SX, 0604SO, 0752SuO)
> and 2353 Mon to Sat, 2314 Sun (Currently 2334 Mon to Sat, 2254 Sun).
>
> I fail to see the logic of making the last train *to* London 20 minutes
> later than at present, and the last train *from* London 20 minutes
> earlier...
>

its cheaper.
cheers
james

Barry Salter  wrote in message
news:if6fh1pvg760g96u67unuq4hbcmp7v76o0@4ax.com...

> Hi gang,
>
> Well it's nearly that time of the year again, so here we go with a brief
> summary of the currently proposed alterations for December (details
> gleaned from the ORR website, where the relevant Track Access
> Applications are listed, all Section 22 or Section 22a jobbies).
>
<snip>
> On Anglia Rural routes, an hourly service between Norwich and Great
> Yarmouth will operate on Sundays with 16 trains all year round compared
> to the current 10 winter/14 summer. Acle and Lingwood will now open all
> year round and be served by a two hourly service. Also an additional
> service Norwich to Sheringham and return.
>

Should be interesting, especially since One can't provide the resources to
run the existing services reliably.

Barry Salter wrote:

>
> Hull Trains: Proposed 0812 departure from Hull, arriving Kings Cross
> 1056. Increase to 6 firm slots each way on weekdays, 5 on Saturdays
> (except where pathing is impossible for the additional slot), 2 on
> Sundays.


Just out of interest, where has this word "slot" come from? And does it
mean the same thing as "path", or is it slightly different?
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

Tim Christian wrote:

> Should be interesting, especially since One can't provide the resources to
> run the existing services reliably.


That's true...I suppose it will mean a Sunday outing for the 47s+set.

It makes you wonder who decided (and why) that the 10th 2-car unit and 
the 2x153s were spare, to allow their release to ATW

In message , at 
02:16:26 on Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Pat Ricroft  
remarked:

>> Hull Trains: Proposed 0812 departure from Hull, arriving Kings Cross
>> 1056. Increase to 6 firm slots each way on weekdays, 5 on Saturdays
>> (except where pathing is impossible for the additional slot), 2 on
>> Sundays.
>
>Just out of interest, where has this word "slot" come from? And does it
>mean the same thing as "path", or is it slightly different?


Presumably a train runs on a path, which is fitted into a number of 
slots. Slots could be local things, as many trains run along a variety 
of lines on their journey, whereas a path is the entire end to end 
event? You could end up with one slot ending at a junction, with two 
onward empty slots, one on each branch. But the path will only take one 
(<pedant alert> assuming the train doesn't split </pedant alert>).
-- 
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry"  wrote in message 
news:ZzYdyTZ1ICGDFAWP@donald.internetpolicynews.co.uk...

> In message , at 
> 02:16:26 on Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Pat Ricroft  
> remarked:
>>> Hull Trains: Proposed 0812 departure from Hull, arriving Kings Cross
>>> 1056. Increase to 6 firm slots each way on weekdays, 5 on Saturdays
>>> (except where pathing is impossible for the additional slot), 2 on
>>> Sundays.
>>
>>Just out of interest, where has this word "slot" come from? And does it
>>mean the same thing as "path", or is it slightly different?
>
> Presumably a train runs on a path, which is fitted into a number of slots. 
> Slots could be local things, as many trains run along a variety of lines 
> on their journey, whereas a path is the entire end to end event? You could 
> end up with one slot ending at a junction, with two onward empty slots, 
> one on each branch. But the path will only take one (<pedant alert> 
> assuming the train doesn't split </pedant alert>).
> -- 
> Roland Perry

  The French term for a train path is 'sillon', meaning 'slot', and the 
terminology has certainly reached EWS/Eurostar in the UK. Alternatively, the 
term may have entered railway usage from the aviation industry, since so 
many recent entries hold that industry to be the model to follow. I think 
Roland is correct in saying that 'slot' is applied to a particular path over 
a short section, rather than the entire journey. Dealing with these things 
on a daily basis, I confess I use both terms without distinction.
I rather like the alternative French term for 'white space', ie that bit of 
a time-space graph where there are no trains planned. If it is a period 
where no trains are planned to allow track inspections and light maintenance 
(these happen on a regular basis on most French lines, as anyone who's sat 
around for two hours with a camera will testify) the it's called a 'Periode 
Blanche', which is more or less the same as the English. If it's a gap in 
the timetable where an extra train might be pathed, however, the term often 
used is 'plage', derived from the word for a beach. Builds drivers' hopes up 
when you tell them that you've found a beach with a slot for them......
Brian

Darren  wrote in message
news:43181993$0$1321$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

> Tim Christian wrote:
> > Should be interesting, especially since One can't provide the resources
to
> > run the existing services reliably.
>
> That's true...I suppose it will mean a Sunday outing for the 47s+set.
>
> It makes you wonder who decided (and why) that the 10th 2-car unit and
> the 2x153s were spare, to allow their release to ATW


Twice this year I've made the 50 mile round trip to GY to try to film the
47s on a Sat morning and they've not turned up! Why don't the GY tourist
people make a fuss?

On 02/09/2005 03:50, Barry Salter wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 02:32:03 +0100, Barry Salter
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>'one':-
>>
>>On West Anglia Inner and Outer routes, new services between Stratford
>>and Stansted Airport (SO and SX), revised calling patterns for services
>>between Hertford East and Liverpool Street, Enfield Town and Liverpool
>>Street, and for Sunday services between Liverpool Street and Cambridge.
>>
>>NB: Current Liverpool Street - Hertford East via 7 Sisters services will
>>be cut back to run to/from Cheshunt, with Hertford East stopping
>>services diverted to run via Brimsdown.
>>
> 
> Further to this, on Sundays, there will be no service on the Southbury
> Loop (i.e. to Southbury, Turkey Street and Theobalds Grove). All trains
> via Seven Sisters (32 Up, 33 Down) will run to and from Enfield Town. 
> 
> In addition, First and Last trains will be revised. First train from
> Liverpool Street to Enfield Town will be at 0603 Mon to Sat, 0830 Sun
> (Currently 0550SX, 0555SO, 0658SuO) and last will be 2333 Mon to Sat,
> 2300 Sun (Currently 2355 Mon to Sat, 2258 Sun); and in the other
> direction 0553SX, 0623SO, 0844SuO (Currently 0558SX, 0604SO, 0752SuO)
> and 2353 Mon to Sat, 2314 Sun (Currently 2334 Mon to Sat, 2254 Sun).
> 
> I fail to see the logic of making the last train *to* London 20 minutes
> later than at present, and the last train *from* London 20 minutes
> earlier...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Barry


This is going to be *hell* there are many many issues with the new 'one' 
TT - Like morning peak (Unless they changed it again) all Chingford 
services up to LST where pathed in 1 or 2 min's before an arriving 
Enfield town service.

The Saturday morning 1st train (06:28) now means I will be unable to get 
to work on time, Do we know what time the 1st Enfield - LST will be on a 
Sunday now ?

All the fast / semi-fast hertford CHS services will no longer run, so 
all trains will now be stoppers. There will be no CHS/ENF connection to 
Stratofrd any more - Again Getting to work will be fun - Ill have to go 
via LST and back out again.

The plus side we get a few more trains in morning and evening peak - 
That's nice.

BUT - How many of these trains will now be run as 4 car sets ???

What will happen when it all goes wrong ?

What happens come winter and leaves on the line time... ?


I can see d00m ahead...

Q

On 2 Sep 2005 02:16:26 -0700, "Pat Ricroft" 
wrote:


>Barry Salter wrote:
>>
>> Hull Trains: Proposed 0812 departure from Hull, arriving Kings Cross
>> 1056. Increase to 6 firm slots each way on weekdays, 5 on Saturdays
>> (except where pathing is impossible for the additional slot), 2 on
>> Sundays.
>
>Just out of interest, where has this word "slot" come from? And does it
>mean the same thing as "path", or is it slightly different?


Your guess is as good as mine, but that's the terminology used in the
Track Access Agreements. So, at a guess, a given train takes up one
slot, but may take up several paths (or bits of paths) en route.

Something like that anyway...

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:47:56 +0100, Q <..@..> wrote:


>This is going to be *hell* there are many many issues with the new 'one' 
>TT - Like morning peak (Unless they changed it again) all Chingford 
>services up to LST where pathed in 1 or 2 min's before an arriving 
>Enfield town service.


Quite...It's not made it into the DB Journey Planner yet, so I can't
give precise details, obviously.


>The Saturday morning 1st train (06:28) now means I will be unable to get 
>to work on time, Do we know what time the 1st Enfield - LST will be on a 
>Sunday now ?


First train from Enfield Town on Sundays will be at 0844, instead of
0752.


>All the fast / semi-fast hertford CHS services will no longer run, so 
>all trains will now be stoppers. There will be no CHS/ENF connection to 
>Stratofrd any more - Again Getting to work will be fun - Ill have to go 
>via LST and back out again.


I just summarised the Stratford services and the changes that affected
me directly first time. Oops.

Here's the full rundown for the West Anglia Inners:

Liverpool Street to Cheshunt via Southbury Stopping: 26 Off-Peak
                                                      1 Evening Peak
                                                     38 Saturday
Liverpool Street to Cheshunt via Southbury Fast: 6 Off-Peak
Liverpool Street to Chingford via Clapton Stopping: 64 Off-Peak
                                                    12 Evening Peak
                                                    76 Saturday
                                                    61 Sunday
Liverpool Street to Enfield Town via 7 Sisters Stopping: 37 Off-Peak
                                                         11 Evening Peak
                                                         37 Saturday
                                                         33 Sunday
Liverpool Street to Hertford East via Brimsdown Stopping: 32 Off-Peak
                                                          6 Evening Peak
                                                          38 Saturday
                                                          33 Sunday
Stratford to Hertford East via Brimsdown Stopping: 3 Off-Peak
Stratford to Broxbourne via Brimsdown Stopping: 3 Off-Peak
Stratford to Enfield Town via 7 Sisters Stopping: 1 Saturday
Cheshunt to Liverpool Street via Southbury Stopping: 24 Off-Peak
                                                      6 Morning Peak
                                                     36 Saturday
Cheshunt to Liverpool Street via Southbury Fast: 6 Off-Peak
Chingford to Liverpool Street via Clapton Stopping: 62 Off-Peak
                                                    12 Morning Peak
                                                    71 Saturday
                                                    58 Sunday
Enfield Town to Liverpool Street via 7 Sisters Stopping: 38 Off-Peak
                                                         12 Morning Peak
                                                         36 Saturday
                                                         32 Sunday
Hertford East to Liverpool Street via Brimsdown Stopping: 30 Off-Peak
                                                          6 Morning Peak
                                                          36 Saturday
                                                          31 Sunday
Hertford East to Broxbourne via Ware Stopping: 1 Off-Peak
Hertford East to Stratford via Brimsdown Stopping: 4 Off-Peak
Broxbourne to Stratford via Brimsdown Stopping: 3 Off-Peak

Just for comparison, here's the current setup:

Liverpool Street to Broxbourne via Brimsdown Stopping: 3 Evening Peak
Liverpool Street to Cheshunt via Southbury Stopping: 4 Off-Peak
Liverpool Street to Cheshunt via Southbury Fast: 1 Off-Peak
                                                 5 Evening Peak
Stratford to Cheshunt via Southbury Stopping: 1 Off-Peak
Seven Sisters to Cheshunt via Southbury Semi-Fast: 1 Off-Peak
Liverpool Street to Chingford via Clapton Stopping: 49 Off-Peak
                                                    12 Evening Peak
                                                    50 Saturday
                                                    37 Sunday
Liverpool Street to Enfield Town via 7 Sisters Stopping: 31 Off-Peak
                                                         11 Evening Peak
                                                         37 Saturday
                                                         17 Sunday
Liverpool Street to Hertford East via Brimsdown Fast: 3 Evening Peak
Liverpool Street to Hertford East via Brimsdown Stopping: 7 Off-Peak
                                                          2 Evening Peak
Liverpool Street to Hertford East via Southbury Stopping: 25 Off-Peak
                                                          1 Evening Peak
                                                          37 Saturday
                                                          18 Sunday
Broxbourne to Liverpool Street via Brimsdown Stopping: 1 Off-Peak
                                                       3 Morning Peak
                                                       1 Saturday
Chechunt to Liverpool Street via Southbury Stopping: 1 Morning Peak
Cheshunt to Liverpool Street via Souhbury Fast: 5 Morning Peak
Cheshunt to Seven Sisters via Southbury Semi-Fast: 1 Off-Peak
Cheshunt to Stratford via Southbury Stopping: 1 Off-Peak
Chingford to Liverpool Street via Clapton Stopping: 48 Off-Peak
                                                    11 Morning Peak
                                                    48 Saturday
                                                    33 Sunday
Enfield Town to Liverpool Street via 7 Sisters Stopping: 31 Off-Peak
                                                          9 Morning Peak
                                                         36 Saturday
                                                         16 Sunday
Hertford East to Liverpool Street via Brimsdown Fast: 1 Off-Peak
                                                      3 Morning Peak
                                                      1 Saturday
Hertford East to Liverpool Street via Brimsdown Stopping: 3 Morning Peak
Hertford East to Liverpool Street via Southbury Stopping: 28 Off-Peak
                                                          1 Morning Peak
                                                          34 Saturday
                                                          16 Sunday
Hertford East to Broxbourne via Ware Stopping: 1 Off-Peak

So...The upshot of these changes are:

Up Southbury: 1 less train in the Morning Peak
              2 more trains on Saturdays
              No Sunday Service (16 trains)
Down Southbury: 5 less trains in the Evening Peak
                1 more train on Saturdays
                No Sunday Service (18 trains)
Up Enfield Town: 3 more trains in the Morning Peak
                 7 more trains Off-Peak
                 16 more trains on Sundays
Down Enfield Town: 6 more trains Off-Peak
                   16 more trains on Sundays
Up Chingford: 1 more train in the Morning Peak
              14 more trains Off-Peak
              23 more trains on Saturdays
              25 more trains on Sundays
Down Chingford: 15 more trains Off-Peak
                27 more trains on Saturdays
                24 more trains on Sundays

So Chingford gets a train every 15 minutes all week, through trains to
Hertford are lost from the Seven Sisters route (though hopefully this
will mean an increase in frequencies at the Lea Valley line stations
that currently get 1 train per hour), and the Southbury loop gets no
trains at all on Sundays.

HTH,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

"Barry Salter"  wrote in message
news:n1pgh19hkgrvfsvgjit2lror5pa95ec67v@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:47:56 +0100, Q <..@..> wrote:
>
> >This is going to be *hell* there are many many issues with the new 'one'
> >TT - Like morning peak (Unless they changed it again) all Chingford
> >services up to LST where pathed in 1 or 2 min's before an arriving
> >Enfield town service.
>
> Quite...It's not made it into the DB Journey Planner yet, so I can't
> give precise details, obviously.
>
> >The Saturday morning 1st train (06:28) now means I will be unable to get
> >to work on time, Do we know what time the 1st Enfield - LST will be on a
> >Sunday now ?
>
> First train from Enfield Town on Sundays will be at 0844, instead of
> 0752.
>
> >All the fast / semi-fast hertford CHS services will no longer run, so
> >all trains will now be stoppers. There will be no CHS/ENF connection to
> >Stratofrd any more - Again Getting to work will be fun - Ill have to go
> >via LST and back out again.
>
> I just summarised the Stratford services and the changes that affected
> me directly first time. Oops.
>
> Here's the full rundown for the West Anglia Inners:

<Snip>

> So Chingford gets a train every 15 minutes all week, through trains to
> Hertford are lost from the Seven Sisters route (though hopefully this
> will mean an increase in frequencies at the Lea Valley line stations
> that currently get 1 train per hour), and the Southbury loop gets no
> trains at all on Sundays.
>
> HTH,
>
> Barry
>
> -- 
> Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
> Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!



Hmm.

So now what happens when I need to be in my office for 9am on a Sunday... ?
At least I had a choice of ENF or SBU at alternate times with the old TT and
a train out of the town at 07:52.

No path to Stratford via SVS I suppose was always going to happen at some
point. It just takes too long to get across the triangle. It would have been
nice to keep the 2 services they had running over that route, they (when
they ran) where very very handy when I had to work in East London.

Can anyone work out the number of units and sets needed to make this TT
work - with there current levels of stock ? How many of these 'extra' trains
will be 4 car sets, and will we be seeing more 317's on the ENF run's - or
are they *all* being taken over to the Lea Valley side ?

Q

On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:05:37 +0100, "Q" <..@..> wrote:


>So now what happens when I need to be in my office for 9am on a Sunday... ?
>At least I had a choice of ENF or SBU at alternate times with the old TT and
>a train out of the town at 07:52.


If you live at the Enfield Town end of Southbury, and work at Stratford,
you take a 329 to Wood Green, Piccadilly Line to Kings Cross,
Circle/Met/H&C to Liverpool Street, then Central Line to Stratford,
taking around 1 hour 20 minutes.

If you live at the Southbury end, take a 349 to Stoke Newington Station,
then a 106 to Bethnal Green, then the Central; or a 279 or 349 to Bruce
Grove, 123 to Blackhorse Road, then 158 to Stratford, both taking around
1 hour 5 minutes.

Why not go via Enfield Chase? Because Network Rail generally use the
Winter timetable for Engineering Work on the Hertford Loop. Good innit?


>No path to Stratford via SVS I suppose was always going to happen at some
>point. It just takes too long to get across the triangle. It would have been
>nice to keep the 2 services they had running over that route, they (when
>they ran) where very very handy when I had to work in East London.


Well there's still *a* train (on a Saturday) *from* Stratford to Enfield
under the proposed changes, but the vast majority of Stratford trains
will be routed via the Lea Valley.


>Can anyone work out the number of units and sets needed to make this TT
>work - with there current levels of stock ? How many of these 'extra' trains
>will be 4 car sets, and will we be seeing more 317's on the ENF run's - or
>are they *all* being taken over to the Lea Valley side ?


Specified equipment for *all* of the Inner Services is 315s, so it's
certainly going to be "interesting" trying to work out the diagrams,
unless the entire 315 fleet (61 units) is decked out in a new "one"
livery during refurb at Derby and "spread around" between GE and WA
more, especially with the increase in services to Chingford.

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

Barry Salter wrote:

> Hi gang,
> 
> Well it's nearly that time of the year again, so here we go with a brief
> summary of the currently proposed alterations for December (details
> gleaned from the ORR website, where the relevant Track Access
> Applications are listed, all Section 22 or Section 22a jobbies).
> 
> The following are in the order they appear on the ORR site:
> 
> First ScotRail: Reversion to Class 322 operation on North Berwick
> services.


Already starting.

There's also the extension of Maryhill services to Anniesland and 
Hamilton Central services to Larkhall. (Anniesland services may start 
later this month though)

eat

-- 
<><|"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure
....|      is to try to please everyone." - Bill Cosby
ScR|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scot-rail/
Pix|http://photos.eatnet.org.uk/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barry Salter" 
Newsgroups: uk.railway
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: "one" West Anglia Changes (was Re: Proposed December Timetable
Changes (long))



> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:05:37 +0100, "Q" <..@..> wrote:

<Snip>

> If you live at the Enfield Town end of Southbury, and work at Stratford,
> you take a 329 to Wood Green, Piccadilly Line to Kings Cross,
> Circle/Met/H&C to Liverpool Street, then Central Line to Stratford,
> taking around 1 hour 20 minutes.


Hmm. That's why I used to love the CHS-SRA service in the morning's. It
meant I didn't need to take such a long winded round about trip. A 329 to
wood green can take a very long time some days, I could take a 231. Picc to
KGX is ok, can get quite busy though, very hot in the summer. Central Line
to SRA I wouldn't need. I actually work in Devons Road, so I'd change at
Mile End and go to Bromley By Bow and walk back along the road.

<Snip>


> Why not go via Enfield Chase? Because Network Rail generally use the
> Winter timetable for Engineering Work on the Hertford Loop. Good innit?


Joy! Busses to/from AAP then.

<Snip>


> Well there's still *a* train (on a Saturday) *from* Stratford to Enfield
> under the proposed changes, but the vast majority of Stratford trains
> will be routed via the Lea Valley.


Yes I found that in your 1st post - sorry. We found it last night and fell
about laughing for a while, thinking what's the point...

<Snip>


> Specified equipment for *all* of the Inner Services is 315s, so it's
> certainly going to be "interesting" trying to work out the diagrams,
> unless the entire 315 fleet (61 units) is decked out in a new "one"
> livery during refurb at Derby and "spread around" between GE and WA
> more, especially with the increase in services to Chingford.


TBH I'm not that bothered what livery a unit turns up in, I'd rather have an
8 car with a 'one' front half, and a GE back half... Long as its an 8 set
not just a 4.

My mate was amazed that the Chingford new sees 4 TPH *all* day.! What
happens when it all goes wrong and a dozen units get 'stuck' down there...

Just an off topic thought;
If all the 315's are going to Derby, who's taking them there (EWS Drivers?)
and how long will it take those poor little units (under there own power) to
make it down there? I wouldn't like to see a little 315 trying to do 100Mph!
Or are they going to be dragged 'dead' behind a 66 or 67 ?


> Cheers,
>
> Barry


<Snip>


Q

Cheshunt / Enfield / Chingford services will be formed of 315's - 17 WA
units (1 daily for maintenance) will allow eight car operation on many
services as at present, currently not planned to pool 315's between GE
and WA although all are maintained at Ilford. Lea Valley / Hertford
services will be operated with 317/1's, refurbished as standard class
only (the first two are at WABTEC Doncaster now). 317/6's will work all
Cambridge line services and far fewer inner suburban workings than
currently. The additional stock comes from the 12 317/1's which were
sub-leased to Thameslink - currently being used for staff training,
standby use on Anglia route, cover for refurbishment, and to allow
modifications on 315's to improve reliability (particularly doors).

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:18:53 +0100, "Q" <..@..> wrote:


>My mate was amazed that the Chingford new sees 4 TPH *all* day.! What
>happens when it all goes wrong and a dozen units get 'stuck' down there...


Er, the whole service stops for a bit?  Chingford at least has a
couple of platforms and siding space.  Kirkby and Ormskirk have 4TPH
and just a single-line stub.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.