I've got an oak table that was made around 1925, it's stained very dark
and in places where it gets worn, the wood is a more natural oak
colour.

As the table is of sentimental value, I'd like to restore it to
something like it's original look. How do I best do that ?

I'm not sure how the wood was finished after having been stained. The
finish isn't glossy enough to make me think that it's French polished.
What else would have been used in those days.

It was built by an individual craftsman rather than in a factory.

On 31 Aug 2005 15:07:11 -0700, Rolyata@Tesco.net wrote:


>I've got an oak table that was made around 1925, it's stained very dark
>and in places where it gets worn, the wood is a more natural oak
>colour.


What's a "stain" here ?  A dark coating applied to oak in 1925 is quite
possibly a deliberate attempt to darken it, to comply with the then
fashionable "stockbroker jacobean" and a mistaken idea that furniture of
the period had always been near black.

If it's spots of discolouration, particularly iron or water stain, then
you want oxalic acid as a bleach.  Try "Barkeeper's Friend", from a
hardware store or even supermarket.

For an applied stain, then it might be that a chlorine bleach is more
effective, but that's something of a last resort.


>I'm not sure how the wood was finished after having been stained. The
>finish isn't glossy enough to make me think that it's French polished.
>What else would have been used in those days.


Almost anything. Oils and waxes would be likely on small-scale work
trying to look "period". Otherwise a brushed varnish, although the
resins aren't what we're used to these days. Shellac (although not
french polish) is quite likely too.  As a refinishing process, shellac
over oil works well on oak of this period.

If you're after a darker (but not black) finish that evens up pale areas
of wear, consider ammonia fuming it.

>What's a "stain" here ?  A dark coating applied to oak in 1925 is quite
> possibly a deliberate attempt to darken it, to comply with the then
> fashionable "stockbroker jacobean" and a mistaken idea that furniture of
> the period had always been near black.


Yes, when I referred to stained oak, I meant that the stain was an
intentional finish and it your description and opinion seems spot-on.

But however mistaken the cabinet maker's intentions were, I'd like to
return it to that finish as it matches other items made by the same
person at the same time.

At the moment, most of the surface is stained in that Jacobean colour,
but areas that get worn have acquired a more natural medium oak colour.



>If you're after a darker (but not black) finish that evens up pale areas
> of wear, consider ammonia fuming it.


Is that the sort of thing that an amateur can do with some expectation
of succeeding ?

Rolyata@Tesco.net wrote:

>>What's a "stain" here ?  A dark coating applied to oak in 1925 is quite
>>possibly a deliberate attempt to darken it, to comply with the then
>>fashionable "stockbroker jacobean" and a mistaken idea that furniture of
>>the period had always been near black.
> 
> 
> Yes, when I referred to stained oak, I meant that the stain was an
> intentional finish and it your description and opinion seems spot-on.
> 
> But however mistaken the cabinet maker's intentions were, I'd like to
> return it to that finish as it matches other items made by the same
> person at the same time.
> 
> At the moment, most of the surface is stained in that Jacobean colour,
> but areas that get worn have acquired a more natural medium oak colour.
> 
> 
> 
>>If you're after a darker (but not black) finish that evens up pale areas
>>of wear, consider ammonia fuming it.
> 
> 
> Is that the sort of thing that an amateur can do with some expectation
> of succeeding ?
> 


If the Jacobean look has been put over a previous finish, it may well 
wipe off with meths or white spirit. See if any colour comes off on a 
kitchen towel.

You could try bleaching, and any one of 3 methods might (or might not) 
work.
Ordinary domestic bleach (not the thick versions) will remove some types 
of dye.
Ecover laundry bleach (Waitrose etc) is an oxygen bleach that generates 
peroxide and will reverse most chemical discolouration.
Oxalic acid (part of the Liberon range, or buy some decking cleaner)

Ammonia fuming is not really a practical proposition unless you can 
construct some kind of airtight tent and place a bowl of it in there 
overnight. Even ordinary household ammonia will blow your head off if 
you try brushing it on. A mild solution of caustic soda or washing soda 
achieves pretty much the same thing. Alkalis darken the wood but don't 
generally affect a colour applied to it.

Rolyata@Tesco.net wrote:


> Yes, when I referred to stained oak, I meant that the stain was an
> intentional finish


Strictly speaking this is probably a "glaze", not a stain. Stains soak
in, glazes sit on the surface. Obviously glazes can then wear off in
the future, leaving lighter-coloured bare wood behind.

Staining (or especially glazing) oak is a heathen practice and I'm not
going to talk about it.


> >If you're after a darker (but not black) finish that evens up pale areas
> > of wear, consider ammonia fuming it.
>
> Is that the sort of thing that an amateur can do with some expectation
> of succeeding ?


Ammonia fuming oak is dead easy and almost impossible to get wrong.

Here's an rather poor page on how to do it, you can google better ones
too:
http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/oakfuming/

dingbat@codesmiths.com wrote:

> Rolyata@Tesco.net wrote:
>>Yes, when I referred to stained oak, I meant that the stain was an
>>intentional finish

> Strictly speaking this is probably a "glaze", not a stain. Stains soak
> in, glazes sit on the surface. Obviously glazes can then wear off in
> the future, leaving lighter-coloured bare wood behind.
> 
> Staining (or especially glazing) oak is a heathen practice and I'm not
> going to talk about it.


But restoration in this case means going back to the c1920 cabinet 
maker's intention, not current fashion, nor a reinterpretation of what 
the maker should have done to copy 'original' oak four centuries, but 
what was originate last century.


-- 
David Clark

$message_body_include ="PLES RING IF AN RNSR IS REQIRD"

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:19:27 GMT, Stuart Noble
 wrote:


>Ammonia fuming is not really a practical proposition


It's dead easy !


>  unless you can construct some kind of airtight tent and place a bowl of it in there 
>overnight. 


Exactly.  This is UK DIY - we have binliners and gaffer tape.


>Even ordinary household ammonia will blow your head off 


Ammonia is one of the few workshop chemicals I have any sort of averse
reaction to. So _usually_, I wear a full face mask. But I'm only using
26% ammonia, not .880, and if I'm in a hurry to refill the box, I just
hold my breath.


>brushing it on. 


Don't brush it on - use the _vapour_, not the liquid. Any liquid
splashes will have a total ebonising effect, not just the attractive
darkening.


> A mild solution of caustic soda or washing soda 
>achieves pretty much the same thing. 


Nothing like the same effect. On oak you'll achieve a completely
different colour. Washing soda is a reasonable way to age pine, but it's
not the stuff to use on oak, unles you merely want it to look manky.



-- 
 Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

Andy Dingley wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:19:27 GMT, Stuart Noble
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ammonia fuming is not really a practical proposition
> 
> 
> It's dead easy !
> 
> 
>> unless you can construct some kind of airtight tent and place a bowl of it in there 
>>overnight. 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  This is UK DIY - we have binliners and gaffer tape.
> 
> 
>>Even ordinary household ammonia will blow your head off 
> 
> 
> Ammonia is one of the few workshop chemicals I have any sort of averse
> reaction to. So _usually_, I wear a full face mask. But I'm only using
> 26% ammonia, not .880, and if I'm in a hurry to refill the box, I just
> hold my breath.
> 
> 
>>brushing it on. 
> 
> 
> Don't brush it on - use the _vapour_, not the liquid. Any liquid
> splashes will have a total ebonising effect, not just the attractive
> darkening.
> 
> 
>>A mild solution of caustic soda or washing soda 
>>achieves pretty much the same thing. 
> 
> 
> Nothing like the same effect. On oak you'll achieve a completely
> different colour. Washing soda is a reasonable way to age pine, but it's
> not the stuff to use on oak, unles you merely want it to look manky.


IME all alkalis have a similar effect on hardwoods, controllable by the 
strength of solution. I guess the advantage with ammonia is that it does 
its job and leaves no residue behind.