Well, it looks different...

The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB, 
especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very 
confusing.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:25:16 +0100, Mark Morton
 wrote:


>The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB, 
>especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very 
>confusing.


A bit of CSS wizardry, really.  I'm not convinced, personally; the old
version was a nice old-fashioned and simple content-driven site,
especially the NREKB index.

Journey planner is broken at present...

I suspect the real reason for the change is the added advertising.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Mark Morton wrote:

> Well, it looks different...
> 
> The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB, 
> especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very 
> confusing.


   The journeyplanner was missing when I tried this morning! As for the 
LDB it's not as clear as the previous one and I can't see much 
difference between the accessible and standard versions. Certainly the 
accessible one doesn't seem any more DDA-friendly and it seems clumsy to 
have to tick a box to get to it....

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:39:31 GMT, Stephen Hughes 
wrote:


>> Well, it looks different...
>> 
>> The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB, 
>> especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very 
>> confusing.
>
>   The journeyplanner was missing when I tried this morning! As for the 
>LDB it's not as clear as the previous one and I can't see much 
>difference between the accessible and standard versions. Certainly the 
>accessible one doesn't seem any more DDA-friendly and it seems clumsy to 
>have to tick a box to get to it....


I think the reason they look similar is that it won't let you access
the standard version unless you're using MSIE - otherwise it gives you
the accessible version whether you tick the box or not!

Pretty much every page on the site, and the LDB in particular, seems
to be less clear and more cluttered than the old version. I was
expecting as much, but still, it's a real shame :(

The departure board is a mess now. the old version was much better. why
could they have not just updated that??

"Stephen Hughes"  wrote in message 
news:DgcRe.219$h54.37@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...

> Mark Morton wrote:
>> Well, it looks different...
>>
>> The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB, 
>> especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very 
>> confusing.
>
>   The journeyplanner was missing when I tried this morning! As for the LDB 
> it's not as clear as the previous one and I can't see much difference 
> between the accessible and standard versions. Certainly the accessible one 
> doesn't seem any more DDA-friendly and it seems clumsy to have to tick a 
> box to get to it....


Also the links to the TOC's are broken.

KW

Pete_uk wrote:

> The departure board is a mess now. the old version was much better. why
> could they have not just updated that??


If you know the station CRS code, you can still access a similar style
to before on the Virgin website: -
http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/summary.aspx?T=BPW

On 31 Aug 2005 04:51:26 -0700, "Joe Patrick"
 wrote:


>> The departure board is a mess now. the old version was much better. why
>> could they have not just updated that??
>
>If you know the station CRS code, you can still access a similar style
>to before on the Virgin website: -
>http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/summary.aspx?T=BPW


Excellent! Thanks for the tip.

The message 
from "Joe Patrick"  contains these words:


> http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/summary.aspx?T=BPW


Most helpful, thank you.  The LDB on the new version of the site is
totally borked!

-- 
Dave,                                     
Frodsham

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 08:51:40 +0100, I wrote:


>I think the reason they look similar is that it won't let you access
>the standard version unless you're using MSIE - otherwise it gives you
>the accessible version whether you tick the box or not!


Looks like this has now been sorted.

If TPTB are watching, can we have delays of more than 10 mins
highlighted in red? And, on the combined arrivals/departures page,
separate columns for the origin and destination, and the arrival and
departure times? :)

Mark Morton wrote:

> Well, it looks different...
>
> The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB,
> especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very
> confusing.


A new look is always a bit of a shock. I too preferred the old LDB,
they had a simple clarity about them, and the font of the text was
larger. However the nationalrail.co.uk front page was looking a bit
dated, especially when you compare it to the major websites of the
alternative means of travel (e.g. the AA, RAC, easyjet, British Airways
etc), to some of the other UK public transport websites (e.g. TfL,
Transport Direct), but most tellingly when compared with many of the
flashy TOC websites. I think that an overhaul of the National Rail site
was inevitable, and am surpised it's only just happened.

<Cue discussion about mischevous marketing men, olde world HTML pages
being best, making the railways move with the times etc etc...>

The new Journey Planner is IMO an improvement, at least in terms of the
information is delivers. It shows 5 journeys on the initial results
page as opposed to just three on the old version, and there's a "view
live train progress" link that takes people off to the departing
stations LDB, a feature that was not present in the old Journey Planner
and may make more people aware of this most useful service.

Incidentally I've always found the National Rail WAP site (for mobile
phones) useful (if slightly limited), especially having access to the
LDB whilst on the move. I haven't been able to check it today yet but I
suspect it has bveen omitted from any overhaul.

asdf wrote:

> On 31 Aug 2005 04:51:26 -0700, "Joe Patrick"
>  wrote:
>
> >> The departure board is a mess now. the old version was much better. why
> >> could they have not just updated that??
> >
> >If you know the station CRS code, you can still access a similar style
> >to before on the Virgin website: -
> >http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/summary.aspx?T=BPW
>
> Excellent! Thanks for the tip.


Indeed, a great tip.

Plus the Virgin trains LDB can also to offer 'departures only' or
'arrivals only' pages if you use the correct URL.

In these examples replace 'FST', the CRS code for Fenchurch Street,
with the appropriate code. The CRS codes can of course be determined by
using the new version of the LDB.

For departures only use:
http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/sumdep.aspx?T=FST

For arrivals only use:
http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/sumarr.aspx?T=FST


But don't get too attached as I'm sure that one day Virgin will decided
to do away with such a simple page and will instead use some unholy
alliance of Macromedia Flash and Java to render the same said page!

>Joe Patrick wrote:
>>If you know the station CRS code, you can still access a similar style
>>to before on the Virgin website: -
>>http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/summary.aspx?T=BPW

asdf wrote:
>Excellent! Thanks for the tip.


Other variations:
<http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/wessextrains/summary.aspx?T=GGJ>
<http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/fgw/summary.aspx?T=LDS>


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Green, Peter - I'm Ready For You (from the album 'Reaching the Cold 100')

On 31 Aug 2005 07:02:14 -0700, "Mizter T"  wrote:


>However the nationalrail.co.uk front page was looking a bit
>dated, especially when you compare it to the major websites of the
>alternative means of travel (e.g. the AA, RAC, easyjet, British Airways
>etc), to some of the other UK public transport websites (e.g. TfL,
>Transport Direct), but most tellingly when compared with many of the
>flashy TOC websites.


Being flashy is fine, *provided* the actual content is just as clear,
well laid-out and easily accessible.

Unfortunately, few sites manage to successfully pull this off.


>The new Journey Planner is IMO an improvement, at least in terms of the
>information is delivers. It shows 5 journeys on the initial results
>page as opposed to just three on the old version, and there's a "view
>live train progress" link that takes people off to the departing
>stations LDB, a feature that was not present in the old Journey Planner
>and may make more people aware of this most useful service.


I thought it showed 5 journeys before? At any rate, useful new
features are always welcome. I was hoping they'd add information on
the full restrictions on each ticket (i.e. To/From/Route, and the
paragraph of restrictions from the NFM which some touch-screen ticket
machines at stations have started to show). Perhaps that'll come
later.

Also, I've just noticed that LDB now marks trains with an asterisk if
they are overdue at their next reporting point.

asdf wrote:

> On 31 Aug 2005 07:02:14 -0700, "Mizter T"  wrote:
>
> >However the nationalrail.co.uk front page was looking a bit
> >dated, especially when you compare it to the major websites of the
> >alternative means of travel (e.g. the AA, RAC, easyjet, British Airways
> >etc), to some of the other UK public transport websites (e.g. TfL,
> >Transport Direct), but most tellingly when compared with many of the
> >flashy TOC websites.
>
> Being flashy is fine, *provided* the actual content is just as clear,
> well laid-out and easily accessible.
>
> Unfortunately, few sites manage to successfully pull this off.


I fully agree. I guess I was just trying to say that when looking at
the old site, I knew it didn't have long to live. There was no way that
marketing people weren't going to insist on a redesign sooner or later!

The new site is not yet fully on it's feet. There are some broken
internal links, and the internal seach engine isn't yet up and running,
nor is the site index or the site map, so I reckon the NCoC may well be
there already or will shortly make an appearance.

Annoyingly though it seems that most of the URLs have changed (apart
from the LDB), so many of the links to the NR website out in the wild
(including those on this ng and the archive accessible through Google
Groups) are now dead ends.

e.g. the old (and simple!) URL of the London Connections map:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/downloads/LC_May_x05.pdf

and the new (and cumbersome) URL:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/print_maps/LC_May_x05.pdf

Why the words 'print_maps' appear in the URL is a bit of a mystery. Not
that many end users have A3 colour printers that could handle such a
map!


Anyway, many people have ranted on before about the importance of
keeping the same URLs active after a redesign but to no avail. It seems
a redesign inevitably means that external links to the website in
question will end up dead.

Mizter T wrote:


> Mark Morton wrote:
> 
>>Well, it looks different...
>>
>>The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB,
>>especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very
>>confusing.
> 
> 
> A new look is always a bit of a shock. I too preferred the old LDB,
>


The LDB seems to have been taken down now - or maybe it won't
work in Mozilla?

Charlie

In article <df4j19$200b$2@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


> Mizter T wrote:
> 
> > Mark Morton wrote:
> > 
> >>Well, it looks different...
> >>
> >>The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB,
> >>especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very
> >>confusing.
> > 
> > 
> > A new look is always a bit of a shock. I too preferred the old LDB,
> >
> 
> The LDB seems to have been taken down now - or maybe it won't
> work in Mozilla?


Wasn't working for me earlier (apologetic message about improving the
customer experience or something) but it's fine now.

Sam

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:34:16 UTC, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

: I suspect the real reason for the change is the added advertising.

Firefox and right-click-block-images-from... is your friend.

Ian

--

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:40:23 UTC, Charlie Hulme 
 wrote:

: The LDB seems to have been taken down now - or maybe it won't
: work in Mozilla?

It gives a post error in Firefox. So off I toddle to the feedback 
page...

This page is temporarily unavailable while we implement improvements 
to the Nationalrail web site. Thank you for your patience.

For crying out loud. Did these wazzocks check /any/ of this before 
going live?

Ian

"Ian Johnston"  wrote in message 
news:cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-MZXiJVmwrxy1@localhost...


> For crying out loud. Did these wazzocks check /any/ of this before
> going live?
>


Seems not. Putting a live site together bit by bit is my impression. In IE I 
have to press CTRL and refresh more often than usual to force it to capture 
latest page.

David

The message <df4j19$200b$2@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
from Charlie Hulme  contains these words:


> The LDB seems to have been taken down now - or maybe it won't
> work in Mozilla?


Somebody must have put a bob in the meter!  It's now working in Firefox
1.06 and in Opera 8.

-- 
Dave,                                     
Frodsham

Ian Johnston wrote:

> Firefox and right-click-block-images-from... is your friend.


Or Right Click > Adblock Image (and set-up a suitable wild card) using 
the Adblock Extension

"David Jackson"  wrote in message 
news:31303030333733334315BCB316@zetnet.co.uk...

> The message 
> from "Joe Patrick"  contains these words:
>
>> http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/summary.aspx?T=BPW
>
> Most helpful, thank you.  The LDB on the new version of the site is
> totally borked!
>
> -- 
> Dave,
> Frodsham

Glad it wasn't just me....
Thanks, Joe- I've bookmarked it.
Brian

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005, asdf wrote:


> >The new Journey Planner is IMO an improvement, at least in terms of the
> >information is delivers. It shows 5 journeys on the initial results
> >page as opposed to just three on the old version, 
[...]

> I thought it showed 5 journeys before? 


The number of journeys it showed, seemed to depend on how frequent 
they were.  For some queries that I have tried, it has only shown one 
journey.  When I tried the "later" button, it showed another one 
journey, hours later - no overlap - when it could easily have shown 
both at the outset.

On other queries, it had shown two, or four, etc.  I suspect it only 
showed five if trains were very frequent.


As for the new design, there seem to be hopelessly many teething 
problems, at any rate with www-compatible browsers (as opposed to the 
proprietary one).  I think I'll wait for it to settle, before spending 
any more time on it than my travels force me to.

On 31 Aug 2005 16:21:33 GMT, "Ian Johnston"
 wrote:


>Firefox 


Already on that...


>and right-click-block-images-from... is your friend.


I'll do that, thanks.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

David Jackson wrote:

>The LDB on the new version of the site is totally borked!


No, _this_ is totally borked:

LIFE DEPERTOoRES: FRODSHEM (FRD)

Es ooff: Vednesdey 31 Oogoost 2005 19:05:26
Yuoor pege-a veell nut reffresh ootumeticelly, pleese-a cleeck here-a
fur a ferseeun thet veell reffresh
    * Feeoo Frudshem Erreefels
    * Frudshem Steshun Inffurmeshun
    * Serfeece-a Boolletins effffecting Frudshem


DESTINETION           TIMETEBLE    IXPECTED    OoPERETOR
Munchester Peeccedilly  19:04 	    Oon time-a 	Erreefa Treeens Veles
Chester 	               20:01 	    Nu repurt 	 Erreefa Treeens Veles
Munchester Peeccedilly  20:08     	Nu repurt  	Erreefa Treeens Veles
Chester                	21:01 	    Nu repurt 	 Erreefa Treeens Veles 	


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Donald Fagen - Walk Between Raindrops (from the album 'The Nightfly')

Darren wrote:

> Ian Johnston wrote:
> 
>> Firefox and right-click-block-images-from... is your friend.
> 
> 
> Or Right Click > Adblock Image (and set-up a suitable wild card) using 
> the Adblock Extension


Or use Adblock, and import a current filter set which aims to 
efficiently block everything it should and leave the content.

'Scrapbook', also listed on the following page, is an inspired extension 
for saving bits of this and that, text, images, and entire web pages.

http://users.bathspa.ac.uk/markhelp/firefox/ff_extensions.html

The filter set for Adblock: http://www.pierceive.com/

The message 
from Neil Sunderland  contains these words:


> >The LDB on the new version of the site is totally borked!

> No, _this_ is totally borked:

> LIFE DEPERTOoRES: FRODSHEM (FRD)

> Es ooff: Vednesdey 31 Oogoost 2005 19:05:26
> Yuoor pege-a veell nut reffresh ootumeticelly, pleese-a cleeck here-a
> fur a ferseeun thet veell reffresh


That's IE for you!

I'll stick to Firefox...         ;-)

-- 
Dave,                                     
Frodsham

Mizter T wrote:

> asdf wrote:
> 
>>On 31 Aug 2005 04:51:26 -0700, "Joe Patrick"
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>The departure board is a mess now. the old version was much better. why
>>>>could they have not just updated that??
>>>
>>>If you know the station CRS code, you can still access a similar style
>>>to before on the Virgin website: -
>>>http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/virgintrains/summary.aspx?T=BPW
>>
>>Excellent! Thanks for the tip.
> 
> 
> Indeed, a great tip.
> 
> Plus the Virgin trains LDB can also to offer 'departures only' or
> 'arrivals only' pages if you use the correct URL.
> 


The central one does still offer this, the only difference is the skin 
as defined in /ldb/, /virgintrains/ etc.

Mark Morton wrote:

> Well, it looks different...
> 
> The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB, 
> especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very 
> confusing.


seen as i had a small bit of spare time I made a greasemonkey extension 
for Firefox to at least remove the adverts etc from the page. I only 
used the platypus extension to make it but I'll try to get an 
independent copy working.

http://www.blueghost.co.uk/ldb.html

it only works under pages at http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/ldb/* 
so won't affect the main site.

Requires: Firefox - http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
Greasemonkey - http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/
Platypus - http://platypus.mozdev.org/

Any comments email at the address listed on the site or reply here

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Pritchard
Web      :: http://www.blueghost.co.uk
Reply-To :: replace '@austin.3.16' with '@blueyonder.co.uk'
--------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:06:03 GMT, Neil Sunderland
 wrote:


>David Jackson wrote:
>>The LDB on the new version of the site is totally borked!
>
>No, _this_ is totally borked:
>
>LIFE DEPERTOoRES: FRODSHEM (FRD)
> Es ooff: Vednesdey 31 Oogoost 2005 19:05:26


Are sure it isn't just in Dutch?
-- 
Arthur Figgis                Surrey, UK

Pete_uk wrote:

> The departure board is a mess now. the old version was much better. why
> could they have not just updated that??


   Didn't we go through this the last time they updated the site? Anyone 
remember the old railtrack timetable site that was actually easy to use 
and gave you the information you needed?

   I only hope that the chap who does the accessible version can get it 
back up and running soon...

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:19:19 GMT, Stephen Hughes 
wrote:


>   Didn't we go through this the last time they updated the site? Anyone 
>remember the old railtrack timetable site that was actually easy to use 
>and gave you the information you needed?


http://bahn.hafas.de/

That said, a welcome upgrade to this version would be the current
version of the Trainline software that deals with complications like
Travelcards and the list of all tickets with routes even where not
shown in the matrix.

Or why not just subcontract the whole planner to Trainline/QJump
rather than just running an old version of their software on a
different server?

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

David Jackson wrote:

>That's IE for you!
>
>I'll stick to Firefox... ;-)


Ahem:
<https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&category=Humor&numpg=10&id=507>


Neil Sunderland
-- 
Braunton, Devon
Please observe the Reply-To address.

NP: Radiohead - Street Spirit (Fade Out) (from the album 'The Bends')

Mark Morton  wrote:

> Well, it looks different...


Looks very GNERy doesn't it?

pete
-- 
pete@fenelon.com "Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime"-G Gordon Liddy

The message 
from Neil Sunderland  contains these words:


> David Jackson wrote:
> >That's IE for you!
> >
> >I'll stick to Firefox... ;-)

> Ahem:
> <https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&category=Humor&numpg=10&id=507>


Somebody pinched one of me fav words!!   ;-)

Good fun though!

-- 
Dave,                                     
Frodsham

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Andrew Rawlins wrote:


> Stephen Hughes wrote:
> 
> >   I only hope that the chap who does the accessible version can 
> > get it back up and running soon...
> 
> I don't think you are referring to me, however:
> 
> http://www.fermit.org.uk/cgi-bin/ldb?t=CODE


I understood the reference to be to http://www.traintimes.org.uk/

Matthew was clearly aware of the impending problem, as he had already 
placed a cautionary note on his page in the run-up to the NRES site 
being mangled.

And has updated the note subsequently, to apologise for the resulting 
non-functioning.  Seems fair enough to me.  I don't doubt that he's 
keen to get it working again, but it's a private effort: I think (in 
the words of our transpondian friends) that we should "cut him some 
slack".

Which is more than I can say for the NRES site itself: they ought 
to be doing a professional -and- accessible job for their public, and 
my personal evaluation is that they "could do better" on both counts.

In article ,
Arthur Figgis  <arthur_figgis01@invalid.bigfoot.com.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:06:03 GMT, Neil Sunderland
> wrote:
>
>>No, _this_ is totally borked:
>>
>>LIFE DEPERTOoRES: FRODSHEM (FRD)
>> Es ooff: Vednesdey 31 Oogoost 2005 19:05:26
>
>Are sure it isn't just in Dutch?


Swedish, I presume...

Nick
-- 
http://www.leverton.org/                      ... So express yourself

Mark Morton wrote:


> Well, it looks different...
> 
> The National Conditions of Carriage seem to be missing and the LDB, 
> especially the combined arrivals and depature board, seem to be very 
> confusing.


I didn't have a problem with the LDB at all.

I am pleased that they have made it far more accessible, in that it
_can_ be used with Lynx, for example, but it is hard work without a
graphical browser. Marks for effort, definitely.

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Neil Williams wrote:


> A bit of CSS wizardry, really.  I'm not convinced, personally; the old
> version was a nice old-fashioned and simple content-driven site,
> especially the NREKB index.


The old site was clunky, inaccessible, slow and hard to use. Difficult
to navigate unless you knew it well, flouting just about every rule of
the DDA requirements, broken on many browsers and setups...

If the old site had been any good, there would have been no call for
the very popular traintimes.org.uk site.

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Stevie D wrote:

> 
> The old site was clunky, inaccessible, slow and hard to use. Difficult
> to navigate unless you knew it well, flouting just about every rule of
> the DDA requirements, broken on many browsers and setups...


The old site worked OK in Mozilla and Firefox, but the new site crashes
both of them when I use the journey planner and try to print the result.
I eventually had to resort to Internet Explorer (spit) before I could
get a hard copy.

-- 
John Ray, London UK.

Alan J. Flavell wrote:
;;;

> 
> Which is more than I can say for the NRES site itself: they ought 
> to be doing a professional -and- accessible job for their public, and 
> my personal evaluation is that they "could do better" on both counts.


It looks much better than the previous version in many ways,
but it does seem to have the printing/Mozilla problem netioned by
someone else ...

.... and DAMN those adverts!!! (They are probably the source of the 
printing problem too.)

Charlie

"Charlie Hulme"  wrote in message
news:mj2Se.5711$w4.5073@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...


> ... and DAMN those adverts!!! (They are probably the source of the
> printing problem too.)


You can get rid of most of those adverts by turning off Javascript for these
sites, I think. .

However, I do have a genuine question for any experts in this group - and I
would much appreciate a response which doesn't incorporate the pharse "get a
www-compliant browser in place of a piece of proprietary software.. "

The problem is that I simply cannot download the following page in IE6 :
http://nrekb.com/tocs_maps/maps/station_maps.htm  . Every time I try, I get
small parts of the many .gif images, but NEVER all of any of them, before
the page simply times out and says "Done". [Using 64Kb connection, not
broadband..]

I've tried turning off Java and Javascript, but with no improvement. I've
emailed the webmaster, and they have promptly replied, but only to say "we
know of no problems; check your settings."

The page does work in Firefox (and please don't say "I told you so.") albeit
it sometimes takes a couple of "refreshes" to get it all..

(And another related question - after downloading the latest updates to
Firefox I can't seem find the option to "render the page using the Internet
Explorer renderer instead of the Gecko one" - has this interesting option
been disabled?).

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Walter Mann

Walter Mann wrote:

> "Charlie Hulme"  wrote in message
> news:mj2Se.5711$w4.5073@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>
>> ... and DAMN those adverts!!! (They are probably the source of the
>> printing problem too.)
>
> You can get rid of most of those adverts by turning off Javascript
> for these sites, I think. .
>
> However, I do have a genuine question for any experts in this group
> - and I would much appreciate a response which doesn't incorporate
> the pharse "get a www-compliant browser in place of a piece of
> proprietary software.. "
>
> The problem is that I simply cannot download the following page in
> IE6 : http://nrekb.com/tocs_maps/maps/station_maps.htm  . Every
> time I try, I get small parts of the many .gif images, but NEVER
> all of any of them, before the page simply times out and says
> "Done". [Using 64Kb connection, not broadband..]


I'm not surprised you're having problems with a low-speed connection.
It works for me in IE6, but I'm on 1Mb broadband and even then it took
several seconds.  I added up the basic size of the HTML plus those
adverts that would give me the size information, plus all the .gif maps,
and it came to 590K bytes.


> I've tried turning off Java and Javascript, but with no
> improvement. I've emailed the webmaster, and they have promptly
> replied, but only to say "we know of no problems; check your
> settings."


Huh! Tell them to try it on a dial-up connection, then they'll realise
what a crap design they've got, with half a Mbyte of maps all on one
page.

-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Walter Mann wrote:


> The problem is that I simply cannot download the following page in IE6 :
> http://nrekb.com/tocs_maps/maps/station_maps.htm  . Every time I try, I get
> small parts of the many .gif images, but NEVER all of any of them, before
> the page simply times out and says "Done". [Using 64Kb connection, not
> broadband..]


Try emptying IE's cache (a complete guess)


> (And another related question - after downloading the latest updates to
> Firefox I can't seem find the option to "render the page using the Internet
> Explorer renderer instead of the Gecko one" - has this interesting option
> been disabled?).


I don't think that was ever an option for Firefox, but I think Netscape 
8 has such a feature.

What Firefox does have is an extension that gives you a context menu 
item which will open the existing web page in Internet Explorer.

Hope this helps

Mark

On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:02:50 +0100, "Walter Mann" 
wrote:


>The problem is that I simply cannot download the following page in IE6 :
>http://nrekb.com/tocs_maps/maps/station_maps.htm  . Every time I try, I get
>small parts of the many .gif images, but NEVER all of any of them, before
>the page simply times out and says "Done". [Using 64Kb connection, not
>broadband..]


I am on 2Mb broadband, and the page came down quickly, but with a
number of the images not displayed. Right clicking on each one and
then  on "Show Picture" brought them up.

It's a common failing with many sites for me. Graphs on ADVFN's
Bulletin Boards do it a lot, for example.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

Andrew Rawlins wrote:

> Stephen Hughes wrote:
>
> >   I only hope that the chap who does the accessible version can get it
> > back up and running soon...
>
> I don't think you are referring to me, however:
>
> http://www.fermit.org.uk/cgi-bin/ldb?t=CODE


Very minimalist, I like it!


> - It is designed to work on my phone, for me, it does that. Ta.


I take it the WAP version of the LDB was not adequate?


> - It runs on the end of an ADSL line, _please_ don't
>    hammer it, occasional use is fine.


Duly noted.


> - Constructive comments perhaps, anything else, will go in
>    the "it works for me write your own bucket or /dev/null" :)


A departures only version perhaps?


Thanks for sharing your creation with the world at large.