Today on a random journey out we found ourselves down at the designer 
outlet centre in Ashford. Just as we reached the main front entrance 
about 5:50pm (had started from car park within) I dragged my friend 
outside to show him that Ashford International wasn't as close as he had 
thought. I suddenly noticed what looked like a class 37 (possibly a 2nd 
behind it) pulling 2 nuclear flasks in the London direction. I've never 
seen it before despite travelling quite often on the Ashford - Rye route.
Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to or 
can it vary by time and day?

Probably been discussed here before and I've missed it; apologies if 
this is the case.

Cheers

Jamie

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:49:26 +0100, J-Me wrote:


> Today on a random journey out we found ourselves down at the designer 
> outlet centre in Ashford. Just as we reached the main front entrance 
> about 5:50pm (had started from car park within) I dragged my friend 
> outside to show him that Ashford International wasn't as close as he had 
> thought. I suddenly noticed what looked like a class 37 (possibly a 2nd 
> behind it) pulling 2 nuclear flasks in the London direction. I've never 
> seen it before despite travelling quite often on the Ashford - Rye route.
> Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to or 
> can it vary by time and day?
> 
> Probably been discussed here before and I've missed it; apologies if 
> this is the case.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jamie


Such trains do go through Tonbridge, not that I've actually seen one
there. On to where, I don't know. I would guess that they don't run to a
regular timetable on purpose.

Tim

In message 
          Tim S  wrote:


> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:49:26 +0100, J-Me wrote:
> 
> > Today on a random journey out we found ourselves down at the designer 
> > outlet centre in Ashford. Just as we reached the main front entrance 
> > about 5:50pm (had started from car park within) I dragged my friend 
> > outside to show him that Ashford International wasn't as close as he had 
> > thought. I suddenly noticed what looked like a class 37 (possibly a 2nd 
> > behind it) pulling 2 nuclear flasks in the London direction. I've never 
> > seen it before despite travelling quite often on the Ashford - Rye route.
> > Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to or 
> > can it vary by time and day?
> > 
> > Probably been discussed here before and I've missed it; apologies if 
> > this is the case.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > Jamie
> 
> Such trains do go through Tonbridge, not that I've actually seen one
> there. On to where, I don't know. I would guess that they don't run to a
> regular timetable on purpose.
> 


Presumably coming from Dungeness.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:12:34 +0100, Graeme Wall wrote:


> In message 
>           Tim S  wrote:
> 

>> 
>> Such trains do go through Tonbridge, not that I've actually seen one
>> there. On to where, I don't know. I would guess that they don't run to a
>> regular timetable on purpose.
>> 
> 
> Presumably coming from Dungeness.


Yes - that's what the railwayman who told me said.

Presumably they go onto somewhere like Sellafield, but
what route would they use to get round London?

Tim

"Tim S"  wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.08.30.23.30.36.103709@dionic.net...

> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:49:26 +0100, J-Me wrote:
>
>> Today on a random journey out we found ourselves down at the designer
>> outlet centre in Ashford. Just as we reached the main front entrance
>> about 5:50pm (had started from car park within) I dragged my friend
>> outside to show him that Ashford International wasn't as close as he had
>> thought. I suddenly noticed what looked like a class 37 (possibly a 2nd
>> behind it) pulling 2 nuclear flasks in the London direction. I've never
>> seen it before despite travelling quite often on the Ashford - Rye route.
>> Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to or
>> can it vary by time and day?
>>
>> Probably been discussed here before and I've missed it; apologies if
>> this is the case.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Jamie
>
> Such trains do go through Tonbridge, not that I've actually seen one
> there. On to where, I don't know. I would guess that they don't run to a
> regular timetable on purpose.
>
> Tim

The time would seem to be consistent, even though the day changes- I've seen 
them on Fridays at about the same time.
Brian

Tim S wrote:


> >
> > Presumably coming from Dungeness.
>
> Yes - that's what the railwayman who told me said.
>
> Presumably they go onto somewhere like Sellafield, but
> what route would they use to get round London?


Head for London 'til you get to the Battersea area, Factory Junction,
low level lines near Stewart's Lane, other junctions that I can never
remember without an atlas, Latchmere Junction, West London, Willesden
then just keep going?  The same route that the odd Inter-City train
from somewhere in Kent, folkstone I think, to Liverpool or Manchester
used to take.

Stephen Furley wrote:

> Tim S wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Presumably coming from Dungeness.
> >
> > Yes - that's what the railwayman who told me said.
> >
> > Presumably they go onto somewhere like Sellafield, but
> > what route would they use to get round London?
>
> Head for London 'til you get to the Battersea area, Factory Junction,
> low level lines near Stewart's Lane, other junctions that I can never
> remember without an atlas, Latchmere Junction, West London, Willesden
> then just keep going?  The same route that the odd Inter-City train
> from somewhere in Kent, folkstone I think, to Liverpool or Manchester
> used to take.


I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
to/from London.

When/why did it stop, and are there any prospects of anything similar
in the future?

"J-Me"  wrote in message
news:4314e275$0$6475$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...

> Today on a random journey out we found ourselves down at the designer
> outlet centre in Ashford. Just as we reached the main front entrance
> about 5:50pm (had started from car park within) I dragged my friend
> outside to show him that Ashford International wasn't as close as he had
> thought. I suddenly noticed what looked like a class 37 (possibly a 2nd
> behind it) pulling 2 nuclear flasks in the London direction. I've never
> seen it before despite travelling quite often on the Ashford - Rye route.
> Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to or
> can it vary by time and day?
>

Quite a few years ago I used to commute from Swanley - on more than one
occasion, I think then on Thursdays, the Sellafield to Dungeness flask train
had a signal stop the other side of the island platform where I was waiting
for my train.

I was in the Appledore area on Monday - the Dungeness branch has more than a
dozen level crossings over mainly minor roads - the ones I investigated were
Open Crossings with no gates, barriers or lights.

Peter

richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:


> I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
> Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
> to/from London.


Used to be one from Dover/Folkestone and one from Margate via Whitstable 
I think. I think they ran through Kensington, but I may be totally wrong!


> When/why did it stop, and are there any prospects of anything similar
> in the future?


Think it stopped sometime in the 90s.

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

On 31 Aug 2005 06:18:02 -0700, richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:


>I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
>Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
>to/from London.
>
>When/why did it stop,


Because of the rise of air travel, making long train+ferry journeys
unnecessary?


>and are there any prospects of anything similar in the future?


With the Regional Eurostar idea squashed, not really.

"Jonathan Stott"  wrote in message
news:df4bdn$ibi$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk...

> richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> > I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
> > Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
> > to/from London.
>
> Used to be one from Dover/Folkestone and one from Margate via Whitstable
> I think. I think they ran through Kensington, but I may be totally wrong!
>
> > When/why did it stop, and are there any prospects of anything similar
> > in the future?
>
> Think it stopped sometime in the 90s.
>

There were three each way a day from sometime in the mid-1980s, which ran
to/from Dover Western Docks. They didn't attract much custom, and by 1990
were down to one a day, running to/from Folkestone. It eventually reduced to
one a week, running to Ramsgate on Summer Saturdays only, and for a couple
of Summers was hauled by a Deltic.

Peter

In message 
          Tim S  wrote:


> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:12:34 +0100, Graeme Wall wrote:
> 
> > In message 
> >           Tim S  wrote:
> > 
> 
> >> 
> >> Such trains do go through Tonbridge, not that I've actually seen one
> >> there. On to where, I don't know. I would guess that they don't run to a
> >> regular timetable on purpose.
> >> 
> > 
> > Presumably coming from Dungeness.
> 
> Yes - that's what the railwayman who told me said.
> 
> Presumably they go onto somewhere like Sellafield, but
> what route would they use to get round London?
> 


Sorry, got distracted and hit send before I finished, I've seen them going
via Willesden.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

asdf wrote:

> On 31 Aug 2005 06:18:02 -0700, richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> >I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
> >Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
> >to/from London.
> >
> >When/why did it stop,
>
> Because of the rise of air travel, making long train+ferry journeys
> unnecessary?
>
> >and are there any prospects of anything similar in the future?
>
> With the Regional Eurostar idea squashed, not really.


But what about in these days of rising rail usage? With the advent of
the CTRL wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of service that
avoided London and took people from Ashford to Crewe (for example)?

In message 
          richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:

[snip]

> But what about in these days of rising rail usage? With the advent of
> the CTRL wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of service that
> avoided London and took people from Ashford to Crewe (for example)?
> 


Makes perfect sense, that's why it wont happen.

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

"asdf" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:0fcbh1t1kadgg652r68hnmavv5u6b9c95j@4ax.com...

> On 31 Aug 2005 06:18:02 -0700, richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
>>I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
>>Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
>>to/from London.
>>
>>When/why did it stop,
>
> Because of the rise of air travel, making long train+ferry journeys
> unnecessary?
>
>>and are there any prospects of anything similar in the future?
>
> With the Regional Eurostar idea squashed, not really.

The impression I got was that these services were used as a means of getting 
to the South Coast resorts, rather than as a means of onward travel by boat. 
Certainly, my in-laws used them to travel from Stoke down to East Kent, as 
it avoided the trek across London. Wish they still ran, as I've got to do 
that trek tomorrow.
Must have been an operating nightmare, though, with crews and stock working 
so far away from their normal bases.
The runs to Dover stopped once the train ferry stopped, as there was no 
longer a shunter to release the train locomotive. The service was then 
diverted to Ramsgate, more-or-less when Virgin took over Cross-Country, 
becoming a summer-dated service, before petering out altogether at the end 
of the 1990s.
Brian

J-Me wrote:


> Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to


Yes. But it isn't one that is available to the public.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9633097.html
(55 009 at London Kings Cross, 1979)

For a picture of a Ramsgate to Edinburgh train (via Bromley South and then 
Kensington) go to http://www.thebattens.ndonet.com/brompic3.html Picture 3.7

The Dungeness/Sellafield service flask train has been running for many years 
in a variety of formations. Usually with one engine but it used to have 
spacer wagons between the engine, flasks and brake van. The brake van 
disappeared some years ago. It appears to run to a fairly regular timetable 
as I used to see it regularly each week but also usually fairly discretely 
because of constant local press campaigns about safety etc. It uses any 
convenient route from Ashford (Tonbridge/Maidstone, Bromley South/Lewisham) 
to Factory Junction and then, presumably the WCML.

Regards,
MaxB


"J-Me"  wrote in message 
news:4314e275$0$6475$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...

> Today on a random journey out we found ourselves down at the designer 
> outlet centre in Ashford. Just as we reached the main front entrance about 
> 5:50pm (had started from car park within) I dragged my friend outside to 
> show him that Ashford International wasn't as close as he had thought. I 
> suddenly noticed what looked like a class 37 (possibly a 2nd behind it) 
> pulling 2 nuclear flasks in the London direction. I've never seen it 
> before despite travelling quite often on the Ashford - Rye route.
> Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to or can 
> it vary by time and day?
>
> Probably been discussed here before and I've missed it; apologies if this 
> is the case.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jamie 





---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0535-2, 31/08/2005
Tested on: 31/08/2005 17:16:49
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

BH Williams wrote:

> "asdf" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:0fcbh1t1kadgg652r68hnmavv5u6b9c95j@4ax.com...
> > On 31 Aug 2005 06:18:02 -0700, richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:
> >
> >>I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
> >>Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
> >>to/from London.
> >>
> >>When/why did it stop,
> >
> > Because of the rise of air travel, making long train+ferry journeys
> > unnecessary?
> >
> >>and are there any prospects of anything similar in the future?
> >
> > With the Regional Eurostar idea squashed, not really.
> The impression I got was that these services were used as a means of getting
> to the South Coast resorts, rather than as a means of onward travel by boat.
> Certainly, my in-laws used them to travel from Stoke down to East Kent, as
> it avoided the trek across London. Wish they still ran, as I've got to do
> that trek tomorrow.
> Must have been an operating nightmare, though, with crews and stock working
> so far away from their normal bases.


This is what frustrates me with living in Kent - if I want to go
anywhere (unless I want to go to France) I have to go into London and
change. It might not seem like it but Kent's actually very cut-off. You
can't go North/East/South as it's just water, and if you want to go
West (in order to go anywhere in the UK) then you have to into London
first. My fault for living in Kent, of course :)

It's a shame that the service has stopped - it would reduce hassle for
a lot of people, and might even cut down on congestion in London...

I don't see that there should be a nightmare with working crews/stock
away from their normal bases - isn't the Edinburgh/Penzance service
similar, just a different axis? (obviously it doesn't need to cross
London).

If such a service were to be reinstated, which TOC would be most likely
to run it? Virgin because it's on that axis, or whoever runs the new
Integrated Kent Franchise?

wrote

>
> This is what frustrates me with living in Kent - if I want to go
> anywhere (unless I want to go to France) I have to go into London and
> change. It might not seem like it but Kent's actually very cut-off. You
> can't go North/East/South as it's just water, and if you want to go
> West (in order to go anywhere in the UK) then you have to into London
> first. My fault for living in Kent, of course :)
>
> It's a shame that the service has stopped - it would reduce hassle for
> a lot of people, and might even cut down on congestion in London...
>
> I don't see that there should be a nightmare with working crews/stock
> away from their normal bases - isn't the Edinburgh/Penzance service
> similar, just a different axis? (obviously it doesn't need to cross
> London).
>
> If such a service were to be reinstated, which TOC would be most likely
> to run it? Virgin because it's on that axis, or whoever runs the new
> Integrated Kent Franchise?
>

I can't see any future for cross-London passenger services to Kent via the
West London Line - it's too slow, and even when there were three trains a
day they were too infrequent to be much use. But with Thames Gateway (around
Ebbsfleet International station) and Ashford being Prescott's main growth
points, there will be a need for through trains from the WCML to Kent via
the CTRL. Trouble is there's no prospect of suitable stock - there won't be
any spare CTRL-DS stock, and nothing else except E*s will be able to run on
the CTRL.

Peter

wrote in message 
news:1125507691.303068.276620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>
> BH Williams wrote:
>> "asdf" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:0fcbh1t1kadgg652r68hnmavv5u6b9c95j@4ax.com...
>> > On 31 Aug 2005 06:18:02 -0700, richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:
>> >
>> >>I didn't know there used to be an Inter-City from Folkestone to
>> >>Liverpool/Manchester - I thought that there were only ever trains
>> >>to/from London.
>> >>
>> >>When/why did it stop,
>> >
>> > Because of the rise of air travel, making long train+ferry journeys
>> > unnecessary?
>> >
>> >>and are there any prospects of anything similar in the future?
>> >
>> > With the Regional Eurostar idea squashed, not really.
>> The impression I got was that these services were used as a means of 
>> getting
>> to the South Coast resorts, rather than as a means of onward travel by 
>> boat.
>> Certainly, my in-laws used them to travel from Stoke down to East Kent, 
>> as
>> it avoided the trek across London. Wish they still ran, as I've got to do
>> that trek tomorrow.
>> Must have been an operating nightmare, though, with crews and stock 
>> working
>> so far away from their normal bases.
>
> This is what frustrates me with living in Kent - if I want to go
> anywhere (unless I want to go to France) I have to go into London and
> change. It might not seem like it but Kent's actually very cut-off. You
> can't go North/East/South as it's just water, and if you want to go
> West (in order to go anywhere in the UK) then you have to into London
> first. My fault for living in Kent, of course :)
>
> It's a shame that the service has stopped - it would reduce hassle for
> a lot of people, and might even cut down on congestion in London...
>
> I don't see that there should be a nightmare with working crews/stock
> away from their normal bases - isn't the Edinburgh/Penzance service
> similar, just a different axis? (obviously it doesn't need to cross
> London).
>
> If such a service were to be reinstated, which TOC would be most likely
> to run it? Virgin because it's on that axis, or whoever runs the new
> Integrated Kent Franchise?
>

The nightmare arises because it was only a once-a-day service, requiring 
crews to work away from their normal routes. Thus any major delays could 
cause crews to run out of hours and for it to become difficult to arrange 
reliefs for them. The same issue arises with stock. The Penzance- Edinburgh 
service doesn't really have the same problems as there is an hourly service 
over the greater part of the route, and so it becomes easier to accomodate 
degradation of the timetable.
As someone who has to move crews and trains around for a living, I'm glad I 
don't have any services like the Ramsgate one to operate.
As a rail user, however, I can see their attractiveness- I quite often used 
the Waterloo- Cardiff service, either for myself or for my elderly mother, 
as it provided a means of avoiding the Paddington- Charing Cross underground 
ride.
Brian

richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:


> It's a shame that the service has stopped - it would reduce hassle for
> a lot of people, and might even cut down on congestion in London...
> 
> I don't see that there should be a nightmare with working crews/stock
> away from their normal bases - isn't the Edinburgh/Penzance service
> similar, just a different axis? (obviously it doesn't need to cross
> London).
> 
> If such a service were to be reinstated, which TOC would be most likely
> to run it? Virgin because it's on that axis, or whoever runs the new
> Integrated Kent Franchise?
> 


Using those services, usually between Reading and Dover, before they 
became 'Summer only to Ramsgate' operations, they weren't in any way 
unused, but a portion of the travellers were connecting with ferries, 
some of that market's on Eurostar or in the air. They were good for 
domestic journeys though - Oxford to Clapham Junction, Reading to East 
Croydon, Reading into Kent, but their occasional running didn't provide 
a particularly 20th century timtable pattern even if the journey times 
could be ok and the (lack of) hassle factor even better.

richard_thomas@bigfoot.com wrote:


> This is what frustrates me with living in Kent - if I want to go
> anywhere (unless I want to go to France) I have to go into London and
> change. It might not seem like it but Kent's actually very cut-off. You
> can't go North/East/South as it's just water, and if you want to go
> West (in order to go anywhere in the UK) then you have to into London
> first. My fault for living in Kent, of course :)


Agreed about it taking a long to get anywhere other than London from 
Kent! It takes me about 2.5 hours to do the first 70 miles from 
Canterbury to Euston. Then the next 120 miles takes 80 minutes back home 
to Tamworth! If London wasn't in the way, I might have been able to get 
home in just over 2 hours.


> If such a service were to be reinstated, which TOC would be most likely
> to run it? Virgin because it's on that axis, or whoever runs the new
> Integrated Kent Franchise?


Well, if you can wait until the IKF kicks off in 20XX, then you'll be 
able to get to St. Pancras where both Kings Cross and Euston are just a 
short walk away.

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

BH Williams wrote:

> "Tim S"  wrote in message 
> news:pan.2005.08.30.23.30.36.103709@dionic.net...
> 
>>On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:49:26 +0100, J-Me wrote:
>>
>>
<snip>
>>
>>Such trains do go through Tonbridge, not that I've actually seen one
>>there. On to where, I don't know. I would guess that they don't run to a
>>regular timetable on purpose.
>>
>>Tim
> 
> The time would seem to be consistent, even though the day changes- I've seen 
> them on Fridays at about the same time.
> Brian 
> 
> 


I did hear once that they used to travel through Appledore at 10am every 
Thursday but in hindisght that may very well be incorrect. It was 
probably the same old person I once knew who INSISTED that nuclear 
trains came through Rye (where I lived) every night. Admittedly Rye does 
have a fair bit of freight throughout the night but I'm very doubtful 
about that one!

Jamie

Chris Tolley wrote:

> J-Me wrote:
> 
> 
>>Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to
> 
> 
> Yes. But it isn't one that is available to the public.
> 


That would be both understandable and sensible :)

Just out of curiosity are any freight movements "slipped" to the public 
as more than once I've seen an influx of people armed with their flashy 
SLR cameras frantically photographing seemingly normal freight then 
disappearing after it had passed through.

Jamie

"J-Me"  wrote in message 
news:43162111$0$13703$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
| Chris Tolley wrote:
| > J-Me wrote:
| >
| >
| >>Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to
| >
| >
| > Yes. But it isn't one that is available to the public.
| >
|
| That would be both understandable and sensible :)
|
| Just out of curiosity are any freight movements "slipped" to the public
| as more than once I've seen an influx of people armed with their flashy
| SLR cameras frantically photographing seemingly normal freight then
| disappearing after it had passed through.
|

The rail industry is still one of this country's largest employers.

A significant number of these employees have access to working timetables 
and publications, or to computerised timetable systems (TRUST, etc).

And many of them also have friends "outside"...
-- 
                - Yokel -
    oo                               oo
  OOO                           OOO
   OO            0                OO
    ) (              I                  ) (
    ) (              /\                 ) (

"Yokel" now posts via a spam-trap account.
Replace my alias with stevejudd to reply.

J-Me wrote:


> Just out of curiosity are any freight movements "slipped" to the public 
> as more than once I've seen an influx of people armed with their flashy 
> SLR cameras frantically photographing seemingly normal freight then 
> disappearing after it had passed through.


Google on Freightmaster. All will become clear.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13857110.html
(25 303 at Bescot, May 1979)

"Chris Tolley"  wrote in message 
news:1c35o4dy1sdsq.ie58h51kb49x$.dlg@40tude.net...

> J-Me wrote:
>
>> Is there some sort of set timetable that the nuclear train runs to
>
> Yes. But it isn't one that is available to the public.


Not even in "Freightmaster"?

KW

<snip>

> > I don't see that there should be a nightmare with working crews/stock
> > away from their normal bases - isn't the Edinburgh/Penzance service
> > similar, just a different axis? (obviously it doesn't need to cross
> > London).
<snip>

> The nightmare arises because it was only a once-a-day service, requiring
> crews to work away from their normal routes. Thus any major delays could
> cause crews to run out of hours and for it to become difficult to arrange
> reliefs for them. The same issue arises with stock. The Penzance- Edinburgh
> service doesn't really have the same problems as there is an hourly service
> over the greater part of the route, and so it becomes easier to accomodate
> degradation of the timetable.
> As someone who has to move crews and trains around for a living, I'm glad I
> don't have any services like the Ramsgate one to operate.
> As a rail user, however, I can see their attractiveness- I quite often used
> the Waterloo- Cardiff service, either for myself or for my elderly mother,
> as it provided a means of avoiding the Paddington- Charing Cross underground
> ride.
> Brian


I see what you mean. I'm not a train professional - just a commuter
who'd be happy to be able to get on a train and go round London rather
than through it (like my girlfriend can in France).