I am about to take possession of a new build flat and all the lights are the
dangling wire type and I will be replacing them with light fittings of
various sorts.
Some are double insulated which don't require earthing but will I find that
the sockets are wired with twin wires only and no earth?
Most of the other fittings are provided with an earth point.
Do I need to worry if there is no earth wire fitted?
I would like to know before I tackle the job.
Blair

In article <df3eac$bu3$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Blair  wrote:

> I am about to take possession of a new build flat and all the lights are
> the dangling wire type and I will be replacing them with light fittings
> of various sorts. Some are double insulated which don't require earthing
> but will I find that the sockets are wired with twin wires only and no
> earth? Most of the other fittings are provided with an earth point. Do I
> need to worry if there is no earth wire fitted? I would like to know
> before I tackle the job.


New installation lighting circuits have been required to provide an earth
for many years.

-- 
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Tim Mitchell"  wrote in message
news:xhmVB8D9YWFDFALa@tega.co.uk...

> In article <df3eac$bu3$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, Blair
>  writes
> >I am about to take possession of a new build flat and all the lights are
the
> >dangling wire type and I will be replacing them with light fittings of
> >various sorts.
> >Some are double insulated which don't require earthing but will I find
that
> >the sockets are wired with twin wires only and no earth?
> >Most of the other fittings are provided with an earth point.
> >Do I need to worry if there is no earth wire fitted?
> >I would like to know before I tackle the job.
>
> If new build, you should find that the ceiling roses all have an earth
> wire.
>
> You do need to worry if there is no earth wire, and your light fitting
> is not double insulated. They do have to be earthed.
> -- 
> Tim Mitchell


Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one definitely
states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
connection be made.
It's made of all plastic.
Blair

Blair wrote:

> Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one definitely
> states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
> connection be made.
> It's made of all plastic.


The lighting fitting may be made of plastic and double insulated but the 
earths in the cable must be properly terminated. If there isn't a spare 
terminal on the fitting, use a single piece of insulated 'chocolate 
block' to connect all the earths together and make sure all the bare 
earth wires have green&yellow sleeving.

Even though this fitting may not require an earth, you must connect the 
earths together so the earth is continued down the cable to the next and 
subsequent fittings.

Owain

In article <df4tdk$4nv$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Blair  wrote:

> > You do need to worry if there is no earth wire, and your light fitting
> > is not double insulated. They do have to be earthed.

> Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one definitely
> states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
> connection be made.
> It's made of all plastic.


However, the ECC should still go on to the next outlet regardless of
whether it's needed at this particular one.

-- 
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Owain"  wrote in message
news:1125523545.83402.4@doris.uk.clara.net...

> Blair wrote:
> > Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one definitely
> > states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
> > connection be made.
> > It's made of all plastic.
>
> The lighting fitting may be made of plastic and double insulated but the
> earths in the cable must be properly terminated. If there isn't a spare
> terminal on the fitting, use a single piece of insulated 'chocolate
> block' to connect all the earths together and make sure all the bare
> earth wires have green&yellow sleeving.
>
> Even though this fitting may not require an earth, you must connect the
> earths together so the earth is continued down the cable to the next and
> subsequent fittings.
>
> Owain


Thanks for your warning.
But I am still not sure about it. For instance I assume the cable coming to
the light fitting will have one earth lead. If there is no earth terminal on
the new fitting I can fit a choc block to its end but where is the other
earth wire to make the earth continue to the next fitting?
Sorry to be so dim
Blair

In article <df61dd$u40$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Blair 
 writes

>
>"Owain"  wrote in message
>news:1125523545.83402.4@doris.uk.clara.net...
>> Blair wrote:
>> > Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one definitely
>> > states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
>> > connection be made.
>> > It's made of all plastic.
>>
>> The lighting fitting may be made of plastic and double insulated but the
>> earths in the cable must be properly terminated. If there isn't a spare
>> terminal on the fitting, use a single piece of insulated 'chocolate
>> block' to connect all the earths together and make sure all the bare
>> earth wires have green&yellow sleeving.
>>
>> Even though this fitting may not require an earth, you must connect the
>> earths together so the earth is continued down the cable to the next and
>> subsequent fittings.
>>
>> Owain
>
>Thanks for your warning.
>But I am still not sure about it. For instance I assume the cable coming to
>the light fitting will have one earth lead. If there is no earth terminal on
>the new fitting I can fit a choc block to its end but where is the other
>earth wire to make the earth continue to the next fitting?
>Sorry to be so dim
>Blair
>

The lighting power is normally wired in a "daisy chain" around all the 
light fittings, so most ceiling roses will have an incoming and outgoing 
cable (plus a third cable to the light switch, usually)

Owain was saying that the earths in the incoming, outgoing and light 
switch cables must all be connected together.
-- 
Tim Mitchell

In article <df61dd$u40$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Blair  wrote:

> > Even though this fitting may not require an earth, you must connect the
> > earths together so the earth is continued down the cable to the next and
> > subsequent fittings.
> >
> > Owain

> Thanks for your warning. But I am still not sure about it. For instance
> I assume the cable coming to the light fitting will have one earth lead.
> If there is no earth terminal on the new fitting I can fit a choc block
> to its end but where is the other earth wire to make the earth continue
> to the next fitting?


On most ceiling roses there will be three TW&E cables - the feed, switch
drop and loop on to the next rose. So there could be be three earths. And
it's important to make sure the one to the switch is present and correct -
as some metal plate switches and dimmers *must* be earthed.

-- 
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Tim Mitchell"  wrote in message
news:lNmQKcA80qFDFALM@tega.co.uk...

> In article <df61dd$u40$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, Blair
>  writes
> >
> >"Owain"  wrote in message
> >news:1125523545.83402.4@doris.uk.clara.net...
> >> Blair wrote:
> >> > Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one
definitely
> >> > states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
> >> > connection be made.
> >> > It's made of all plastic.
> >>
> >> The lighting fitting may be made of plastic and double insulated but
the
> >> earths in the cable must be properly terminated. If there isn't a spare
> >> terminal on the fitting, use a single piece of insulated 'chocolate
> >> block' to connect all the earths together and make sure all the bare
> >> earth wires have green&yellow sleeving.
> >>
> >> Even though this fitting may not require an earth, you must connect the
> >> earths together so the earth is continued down the cable to the next
and
> >> subsequent fittings.
> >>
> >> Owain
> >
> >Thanks for your warning.
> >But I am still not sure about it. For instance I assume the cable coming
to
> >the light fitting will have one earth lead. If there is no earth terminal
on
> >the new fitting I can fit a choc block to its end but where is the other
> >earth wire to make the earth continue to the next fitting?
> >Sorry to be so dim
> >Blair
> >
> The lighting power is normally wired in a "daisy chain" around all the
> light fittings, so most ceiling roses will have an incoming and outgoing
> cable (plus a third cable to the light switch, usually)
>
> Owain was saying that the earths in the incoming, outgoing and light
> switch cables must all be connected together.
> -- 
> Tim Mitchell


Thanks to all for your help
I now understand and will be ready when I get the key to the house
Thanks
Blair

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4da342cd22dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <df4tdk$4nv$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>    Blair  wrote:
> > > You do need to worry if there is no earth wire, and your light fitting
> > > is not double insulated. They do have to be earthed.
>
> > Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one definitely
> > states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
> > connection be made.
> > It's made of all plastic.
>
> However, the ECC should still go on to the next outlet regardless of
> whether it's needed at this particular one.
>
> -- 
> *If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
>
>     Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>                   To e-mail, change noise into sound.


I have now obtained access to my flat and the first fitting has only one
cable with earth, live and neutral so there is no problem wiring the fitting
which has an earth terminal.
But in the case of one of my fittings which is all plastic and has no earth
terminal, what do I do with the earth wire? How does it go on to the next
outlet?
Blair

In article <df8nbn$5hd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Blair 
 writes

>
>"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
>news:4da342cd22dave@davenoise.co.uk...
>> In article <df4tdk$4nv$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>>    Blair  wrote:
>> > > You do need to worry if there is no earth wire, and your light fitting
>> > > is not double insulated. They do have to be earthed.
>>
>> > Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one definitely
>> > states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
>> > connection be made.
>> > It's made of all plastic.
>>
>> However, the ECC should still go on to the next outlet regardless of
>> whether it's needed at this particular one.
>>
>> --
>> *If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
>>
>>     Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>>                   To e-mail, change noise into sound.
>
>I have now obtained access to my flat and the first fitting has only one
>cable with earth, live and neutral so there is no problem wiring the fitting
>which has an earth terminal.
>But in the case of one of my fittings which is all plastic and has no earth
>terminal, what do I do with the earth wire? How does it go on to the next
>outlet?

If there is only one cable, there must be a junction box elsewhere to 
feed other lights. For a double insulated fitting you should terminate 
the earth in a single piece of choc block if there is no earth terminal 
in the fitting.

-- 
Tim Mitchell

In article <df8nbn$5hd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Blair  wrote:

> I have now obtained access to my flat and the first fitting has only one
> cable with earth, live and neutral so there is no problem wiring the
> fitting which has an earth terminal. 


Is this the cable in the ceiling? If so there must be a junction box
elsewhere - or the feed goes via the light switch.


> But in the case of one of my fittings which is all plastic and has no
> earth terminal, what do I do with the earth wire? How does it go on to
> the next outlet?


The most common wiring method is a ceiling rose with all the connections
within it. It will be obvious if you have this method when you remove the
cover. However, if the new property was designed to allow your choice of
fittings everywhere rather than simple pendant fittings, it would make
sense to use junction boxes with just one TW&E to each outlet. In which
case you don't have to worry about earth continuity for the circuit.

-- 
*No radio - Already stolen.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

call an electrician

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4da4012b9cdave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <df8nbn$5hd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
>    Blair  wrote:
> > I have now obtained access to my flat and the first fitting has only one
> > cable with earth, live and neutral so there is no problem wiring the
> > fitting which has an earth terminal.
>
> Is this the cable in the ceiling? If so there must be a junction box
> elsewhere - or the feed goes via the light switch.
>
> > But in the case of one of my fittings which is all plastic and has no
> > earth terminal, what do I do with the earth wire? How does it go on to
> > the next outlet?
>
> The most common wiring method is a ceiling rose with all the connections
> within it. It will be obvious if you have this method when you remove the
> cover. However, if the new property was designed to allow your choice of
> fittings everywhere rather than simple pendant fittings, it would make
> sense to use junction boxes with just one TW&E to each outlet. In which
> case you don't have to worry about earth continuity for the circuit.
>
> -- 
> *No radio - Already stolen.
>
>     Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>                   To e-mail, change noise into sound


Yes it is a simple ceiling pendant with all the connections within it. I
have removed the ceiling rose and connecting block so am left with only 3
wires Live, Neutral and earth.
Tim suggested ending the earth terminal with a choc block. What would that
do?
Blair

"Tim Mitchell"  wrote in message
news:kH7wYvAG5AGDFATG@tega.co.uk...

> In article <df8nbn$5hd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Blair
>  writes
> >
> >"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
> >news:4da342cd22dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> >> In article <df4tdk$4nv$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> >>    Blair  wrote:
> >> > > You do need to worry if there is no earth wire, and your light
fitting
> >> > > is not double insulated. They do have to be earthed.
> >>
> >> > Thanks for you help. I have 6 light fittings to fit but one
definitely
> >> > states that it is double insulated and on no account must an earth
> >> > connection be made.
> >> > It's made of all plastic.
> >>
> >> However, the ECC should still go on to the next outlet regardless of
> >> whether it's needed at this particular one.
> >>
> >> --
> >> *If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
> >>
> >>     Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
> >>                   To e-mail, change noise into sound.
> >
> >I have now obtained access to my flat and the first fitting has only one
> >cable with earth, live and neutral so there is no problem wiring the
fitting
> >which has an earth terminal.
> >But in the case of one of my fittings which is all plastic and has no
earth
> >terminal, what do I do with the earth wire? How does it go on to the next
> >outlet?
> If there is only one cable, there must be a junction box elsewhere to
> feed other lights. For a double insulated fitting you should terminate
> the earth in a single piece of choc block if there is no earth terminal
> in the fitting.
>
> -- 
> Tim Mitchell


There e is no earth terminal in the fitting. The sheet issued with it
stressed that an earth must not be fitted
What does ending the earth in a choc block achieves? Can I not just cut off
the earth wire?
Blair

In article <df9sdt$hdd$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Blair  wrote:

> Yes it is a simple ceiling pendant with all the connections within it. I
> have removed the ceiling rose and connecting block so am left with only
> 3 wires Live, Neutral and earth. Tim suggested ending the earth terminal
> with a choc block. What would that do?


Yup. It's simply to keep it safe from shorting on something. It should be
sleeved too.

-- 
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <df9sms$ue1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,
   Blair  wrote:

> > If there is only one cable, there must be a junction box elsewhere to
> > feed other lights. For a double insulated fitting you should terminate
> > the earth in a single piece of choc block if there is no earth terminal
> > in the fitting.

> There e is no earth terminal in the fitting. The sheet issued with it
> stressed that an earth must not be fitted What does ending the earth in
> a choc block achieves? Can I not just cut off the earth wire?


What happens when the fitting is changed for one that *does* need an earth?

-- 
*Fax is stronger than fiction *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <df3eac$bu3$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, Blair 
 writes

>I am about to take possession of a new build flat and all the lights are the
>dangling wire type and I will be replacing them with light fittings of
>various sorts.
>Some are double insulated which don't require earthing but will I find that
>the sockets are wired with twin wires only and no earth?
>Most of the other fittings are provided with an earth point.
>Do I need to worry if there is no earth wire fitted?
>I would like to know before I tackle the job.


If new build, you should find that the ceiling roses all have an earth 
wire.

You do need to worry if there is no earth wire, and your light fitting 
is not double insulated. They do have to be earthed.
-- 
Tim Mitchell