I bought a meranti stable door for my kitcen, a bugger to hang but got there
in the end. I am  looking for the best way to paint this particular hard
wood from bare wood to white gloss. What do I start off with?
Cheers to anyone who knows the answer.

"Dr Wu"  wrote in message 
news:431387dc$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...

>I bought a meranti stable door for my kitcen, a bugger to hang but got 
>there
> in the end. I am  looking for the best way to paint this particular hard
> wood from bare wood to white gloss. What do I start off with?
> Cheers to anyone who knows the answer.
>
>
>

IIRC bare wood ought to be coated with a primer first, in fact if it's 
particularly oily wood, an aluminium based primer is better. Something to do 
with sealing the surface.

Andy.

Read the stuff on this website about real linseed oil paint:

http://www.holkham.co.uk/linseedpaints/why.html

biff@biffvernon.freeserve.co.uk wrote:

> Read the stuff on this website about real linseed oil paint:
> 
> http://www.holkham.co.uk/linseedpaints/why.html


I am in the process of painting a set of doors with this, having been 
given the idea by one of your own posts awhile ago - thanks.

Have you seen the Linseed Wax used on a floor?

Rem

Rembrandt Kuipers wrote:

> biff@biffvernon.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
> 
>> Read the stuff on this website about real linseed oil paint:
>>
>> http://www.holkham.co.uk/linseedpaints/why.html
> 
> 
> I am in the process of painting a set of doors with this, having been 
> given the idea by one of your own posts awhile ago - thanks.
> 
> Have you seen the Linseed Wax used on a floor?
> 
> Rem


Looking at the pine doors half way down the page, I cannot imagine a 
worse finish. IMO linseed oil is just not very flattering as a clear 
finish. Would you want a room full of floorboards looking like that?
I'm a bit sceptical about a lot of the stuff on this site e.g.

"Typical problems associated with modern alkyd paints: cracking, flaking 
and allowing water ingress. Last painted
in 1996."

Typical failure of the putty and the substrate being blamed on the 
paint. Putty dries out and cracks, paint follows suit. Putty will only 
stay flexible if it's prevented from drying, and a paint which it is 
claimed allows things to breathe is never going to achieve that.

"Restored with Holkham Linseed oil, putty and Barley White paint."

Not giving us a date for this though. I trust they will update the picture

Stuart Noble wrote:

> Rembrandt Kuipers wrote:
>> biff@biffvernon.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
>>> Read the stuff on this website about real linseed oil paint:
>>> http://www.holkham.co.uk/linseedpaints/why.html
>> I am in the process of painting a set of doors with this, having been 
>> given the idea by one of your own posts awhile ago - thanks.
>> Have you seen the Linseed Wax used on a floor?
> Looking at the pine doors half way down the page, I cannot imagine a 
> worse finish. IMO linseed oil is just not very flattering as a clear 
> finish. Would you want a room full of floorboards looking like that?


I am not as keen on the grain of pine as shown, I like the oak
floorboards that I have better. I guess we differ on that. :)


> I'm a bit sceptical about a lot of the stuff on this site e.g.


I can understand that. The web site does not prove the claims to you, it
is basically saying 'we are impressed by what we have seen elsewhere, 
and are pleased with the results of using it so far'.


> "Typical problems associated with modern alkyd paints: cracking, flaking 
> and allowing water ingress. Last painted in 1996."


What is a shame from my point of view is that there are no comparisons 
of wood treated the same way subjected to the same conditions.


> Typical failure of the putty and the substrate being blamed on the 
> paint. Putty dries out and cracks, paint follows suit.


That is the case for the paint that you are used to do. Allegedly 
linseed oil paint is not a vulnerable to the waterproof surface being 
compromised. I will let you know in 7 and 14 years time how it fares. ;)


> "Restored with Holkham Linseed oil, putty and Barley White paint."
> 
> Not giving us a date for this though. I trust they will update the picture


Looking around the rest of their site they have not been using it long 
enough to have their own '7 years' and '14 years with one coat of oil at 
7 years' pictures. I expect a just repainted window to look good with 
either approach, the important factor is the durability.

Looking around I am sufficiently convinced that linseed oil paint for 
external woodwork is a good option. Ultimately I am taking people's word 
for it. I would love to have more concrete evidence (either way).

Rem

>> Typical failure of the putty and the substrate being blamed on the 
>> paint. Putty dries out and cracks, paint follows suit.
> 
> 
> That is the case for the paint that you are used to do. 

 >Allegedly
> linseed oil paint is not a vulnerable to the waterproof surface being 
> compromised. I will let you know in 7 and 14 years time how it fares. ;)


There's nothing magical about linseed oil. Artists still prefer it 
because it's a good medium for grinding traditional pigments but it is 
no more flexible a coating than modern paints, and the excessive drying 
times would seem to rule it out for exterior work.

Pretty much any paint will withstand the elements indefinitely on a 
sound surface (such as glass), and none will last very long at all on 
the half rotten woodwork shown on their website. The "waterproof 
surface" you refer to will always be compromised when the substrate 
moves more than the flexibility of the coating allows. Because water 
vapour can travel through the paint film, the wood is able to absorb 
moisture, swell, and break the film.



> Looking around I am sufficiently convinced that linseed oil paint for 
> external woodwork is a good option. Ultimately I am taking people's word 
> for it. I would love to have more concrete evidence (either way).


I wish you luck. Farrow and Ball adopted the brown eggs and bicycles 
approach to paint and there is no doubt that certain pigments do look 
better ground in the traditional way i.e. coarser with random particle 
sizes. What I'm sceptical about is the practicality of using linseed 
without solvents to paint exterior woodwork. Could take a very long time 
, and the whole thing will presumably need to be covered between coats.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:58:05 GMT, Stuart Noble
 wrote:


>What I'm sceptical about is the practicality of using linseed 
>without solvents to paint exterior woodwork. Could take a very long time 
>, and the whole thing will presumably need to be covered between coats.


I've just done some exterior linseed oil painting on my house. Took a
couple of days to dry, then I left it a couple more days and wiped the
dust/dead flies/general crud off the surface and it looks fine

I did pick the hottest days that I could find (last Tuesday and
Wednesday) to do the painting so its not something a professional
would make much of a living at, which is probably why linseed oil
paint went out of fashion

There is also the point that I live in the countryside where leaving
doors and windows wide open for a couple of days is not an issue, but
thats not something I'd want to do everywhere

Anna


             ~~            Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England   
 |""""|    ~                   Lime plaster repairs
 / ^^ \ //    Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
 |____|                 www.kettlenet.co.uk   01359 230642

Stuart Noble wrote:

> There's nothing magical about linseed oil. Artists still prefer it 
> because it's a good medium for grinding traditional pigments but it is 
> no more flexible a coating than modern paints, and the excessive drying 
> times would seem to rule it out for exterior work.


It does take longer to dry. In summary 24 hours under ideal conditions 
(48 hours recommended) and avoid painting in cold or wet weather.

We are talking about 'boiled' linseed oil with improved drying time.

Over the last week drying times have been good. :)


> Pretty much any paint will withstand the elements indefinitely on a 
> sound surface (such as glass), and none will last very long at all on 
> the half rotten woodwork shown on their website.


Is there a relationship between the wood getting rotten and the type of 
paint on it? I understood that the paint being breathable allows the 
moisture to escape, allegedly avoiding excessive swelling and rot.


> I wish you luck. Farrow and Ball adopted the brown eggs and bicycles 
> approach to paint and there is no doubt that certain pigments do look 
> better ground in the traditional way i.e. coarser with random particle 
> sizes. What I'm sceptical about is the practicality of using linseed 
> without solvents to paint exterior woodwork. Could take a very long time 
> , and the whole thing will presumably need to be covered between coats.


Thanks. The third coat of paint is drying, it is not all that hard.

Rem

Rembrandt Kuipers wrote:

> Stuart Noble wrote:
> 
>> There's nothing magical about linseed oil. Artists still prefer it 
>> because it's a good medium for grinding traditional pigments but it is 
>> no more flexible a coating than modern paints, and the excessive 
>> drying times would seem to rule it out for exterior work.
> 
> 
> It does take longer to dry. In summary 24 hours under ideal conditions 
> (48 hours recommended) and avoid painting in cold or wet weather.
> 
> We are talking about 'boiled' linseed oil with improved drying time.
> 
> Over the last week drying times have been good. :)
> 
>> Pretty much any paint will withstand the elements indefinitely on a 
>> sound surface (such as glass), and none will last very long at all on 
>> the half rotten woodwork shown on their website.
> 
> 
> Is there a relationship between the wood getting rotten and the type of 
> paint on it? I understood that the paint being breathable allows the 
> moisture to escape, allegedly avoiding excessive swelling and rot.


IME surface coatings on wood are purely cosmetic. New wood doesn't 
absorb moisture because it's new i.e. it has plenty of resin. Over time 
and with the action of UV this dries out and the timber becomes 
gradually more porous. Paint doesn't stop this happening and, once it 
has, the surface becomes incapable of supporting a paint film.
If paint had the magical qualities we attribute to it, we'd be able to 
weatherproof chipboard for outdoor use. The fact that we can't suggests 
that all surface coatings breathe, and most of them drink too. 
Unfortunately this passage of moisture is a 2 way process and with the 
wood expanding and contracting, what chance the paint?
The only way you can make clapped out woodwork worth painting is to 
impregnate it with something solid to support the paint. 2 part wood 
hardener works well, or any polyester resin from a car body wholesaler.