I have an electrical problem in my flat which developed this evening
and was noticed by myself about 5 mins ago - could do with some
guidance on possible causes please.

The lights started flickering, this became worse over the course of
about 30 mins.  I then had cause to go into the hallway where the RCD
cab is located and noticed an acrid burning smell.  I could also hear
an arcing sound from the RCD cab.  Flicked off the lighting RCD whilst
leaving everything else on, and the problem's gone (I just have no
lights!).

I imagine I need to whip off the cover and replace the RCD but is that
it, or could there be an underlying fault that's sent it faulty to
start with?  I have a fairly standard set up, only thing unusual I
suppose is a touch controlled dimmer switch from intelliswitch.co.uk.

Also, am I allowed to buy a new RCD module and change it, or does the
law say I have to get a sparky in?  TIA

could be just a loose wire.  get a torch and switch everything off and have 
a tug on the wires....DON'T touch the big black wires coming into the box 
from the main fuse!

steve

"Sniffy"  wrote in message 
news:1125256913.353d7ed79ef55e3794aedfd7062990e8@meganetnews2...

>I have an electrical problem in my flat which developed this evening
> and was noticed by myself about 5 mins ago - could do with some
> guidance on possible causes please.
>
> The lights started flickering, this became worse over the course of
> about 30 mins.  I then had cause to go into the hallway where the RCD
> cab is located and noticed an acrid burning smell.  I could also hear
> an arcing sound from the RCD cab.  Flicked off the lighting RCD whilst
> leaving everything else on, and the problem's gone (I just have no
> lights!).
>
> I imagine I need to whip off the cover and replace the RCD but is that
> it, or could there be an underlying fault that's sent it faulty to
> start with?  I have a fairly standard set up, only thing unusual I
> suppose is a touch controlled dimmer switch from intelliswitch.co.uk.
>
> Also, am I allowed to buy a new RCD module and change it, or does the
> law say I have to get a sparky in?  TIA 

Sniffy wrote:

> I have an electrical problem in my flat which developed this evening
> and was noticed by myself about 5 mins ago - could do with some
> guidance on possible causes please.
> 
> The lights started flickering, this became worse over the course of
> about 30 mins.  I then had cause to go into the hallway where the RCD
> cab is located and noticed an acrid burning smell.  I could also hear
> an arcing sound from the RCD cab.  Flicked off the lighting RCD whilst
> leaving everything else on, and the problem's gone (I just have no
> lights!).


When my consumer unit did this it turned out to be a loose neutral where 
they were all commoned toegther.

malcolm gray wrote:


> Sniffy wrote:
> > I have an electrical problem in my flat which developed this evening
> > and was noticed by myself about 5 mins ago - could do with some
> > guidance on possible causes please.
> > 
> > The lights started flickering, this became worse over the course of
> > about 30 mins.  I then had cause to go into the hallway where the
> > RCD cab is located and noticed an acrid burning smell.  I could
> > also hear an arcing sound from the RCD cab.  Flicked off the
> > lighting RCD whilst leaving everything else on, and the problem's
> > gone (I just have no lights!).
> 
> When my consumer unit did this it turned out to be a loose neutral
> where they were all commoned toegther.


Ok, that's a couple of votes for a loose wire, which sounds feasible
although nothing's been connected or disconnected in there for at least
a year, so I don't know why a wire would become loose now.

Anyway, I'll have a look tomorrow when (a) it's daylight and (b) I'll
be sober..!

Incidentally, and by way of a recommendation, this evening I've been
discovering the value of a mains rechargeable floorstanding halogen
lamp unit I bought last year.  Nearly binned it as a "useless" impulse
buy, but right now it's my only lights and it's moving around my flat
with me.

"r.p.mcmurphy"  wrote:


>could be just a loose wire.  get a torch and switch everything off and have 
>a tug on the wires....DON'T touch the big black wires coming into the box 
>from the main fuse!


.....or the red blue or brown ones.


--

Sniffy wrote:


> The lights started flickering, this became worse over the course of
> about 30 mins.  I then had cause to go into the hallway where the RCD
> cab is located and noticed an acrid burning smell.  I could also hear
> an arcing sound from the RCD cab.  Flicked off the lighting RCD whilst
> leaving everything else on, and the problem's gone (I just have no
> lights!).
> 
> I imagine I need to whip off the cover and replace the RCD but is that
> it, or could there be an underlying fault that's sent it faulty to


I assume you mena MCB (i.e. circuit breaker) rather than RCD?

It could be...

Could also be a loose wire into it - possibly even a loose connection at 
the other end of it to the live busbar


> Also, am I allowed to buy a new RCD module and change it, or does the
> law say I have to get a sparky in?  TIA


If you care, opening the consumer unit probably comes under part P these 
days.... However you will have no difficulty getting a fitting a 
replacement so long as the CU is not some very obscure make (the MCB 
does not even have to be the same brand as the CU in every case)



-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

In article <1125256913.353d7ed79ef55e3794aedfd7062990e8@meganetnews2>,
   Sniffy  wrote:

> The lights started flickering, this became worse over the course of
> about 30 mins.  I then had cause to go into the hallway where the RCD
> cab is located and noticed an acrid burning smell.  I could also hear
> an arcing sound from the RCD cab.  Flicked off the lighting RCD whilst
> leaving everything else on, and the problem's gone (I just have no
> lights!).


I imagine you mean the Consumer Unit (CU) and you flicked off the lighting
MCB? An RCD as such doesn't protect against overload, and there's usually
only one per CU.


> I imagine I need to whip off the cover and replace the RCD but is that
> it, or could there be an underlying fault that's sent it faulty to
> start with?  I have a fairly standard set up, only thing unusual I
> suppose is a touch controlled dimmer switch from intelliswitch.co.uk.


If there was a smell of burning it's likely a poor connection, and the
wiring may be damaged too, but this should be fairly obvious with an
inspection. I'd also check all the other connections inside the CU are
good and tight after fixing this fault. Best to isolate the CU before
doing any of this by pulling the main incoming fuse if there isn't an
external isolator.

-- 
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"> Anyway, I'll have a look tomorrow when (a) it's daylight and (b) I'll

> be sober..!


Are you still with us?

Fred wrote:


> 
> "> Anyway, I'll have a look tomorrow when (a) it's daylight and (b)
> I'll
> > be sober..!
> 
> Are you still with us?


Heh, I am indeed, but I need another beer.  I've whipped the cover off
the consumer unit and not liked what I found:

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/1856/consumerunut002sm1uw.jpg

... the MCB on the LHS is the one I switched off yesterday and thought
I'd isolated the problem with.  Having looked at it today though, I can
see the burning is on the Neutral bar and affects a number of feeds.

A few of the screws for the return feeds onto this bar were semi-loose
and have now been tightened.  I don't like the state of things in there
though and believe it will need sorting out.

Does anyone know what an electrician might charge for a small job like
this - alternatively is it easy enough for a clumsy idiot like myself?

"Sniffy"  wrote in message 
news:1125325668.7a8b763e45159c7e9a7be07e8e3699e9@meganetnews2...

> Fred wrote:
>
>>
>> "> Anyway, I'll have a look tomorrow when (a) it's daylight and (b)
>> I'll
>> > be sober..!
>>
>> Are you still with us?
>
> Heh, I am indeed, but I need another beer.  I've whipped the cover off
> the consumer unit and not liked what I found:
>
> http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/1856/consumerunut002sm1uw.jpg
>
> .. the MCB on the LHS is the one I switched off yesterday and thought
> I'd isolated the problem with.  Having looked at it today though, I can
> see the burning is on the Neutral bar and affects a number of feeds.
>
> A few of the screws for the return feeds onto this bar were semi-loose
> and have now been tightened.  I don't like the state of things in there
> though and believe it will need sorting out.
>
> Does anyone know what an electrician might charge for a small job like
> this - alternatively is it easy enough for a clumsy idiot like myself?


On the good side the problem is downstream of your main isolation RCD so 
when this is switched off you are safe to work on it (Don't touch the thick 
incoming supply wires or terminals). On the downside you dont sound very 
confident and the casing might be distorted by the burning so replacing the 
terminal bar might not be an easy job. You will definitely need a 
replacement Neutral bar or rail and a replacement neutral link (the bit of 
thick wire with the burnt insulation and the crimped end attached).
If the casing looks sound then take the make and model details to a decent 
electrical wholesaler in your locality and obtain the parts. Once turned off 
changing them for new is a simple Meccano job. You may need to cut back the 
ends of the rest of the Neutral wires to get rid of the burnt bits and 
reterminate. Note that they "should" terminate in the same order as the 
corresponding lives appear in the MCBs.
If you aren't happy then get a pro in.

This seems to be a great example of why possible electrical faults
shouldn't be treated with the response "It seems to have stopped now -
must take a look some time".

Modern CUs are, I believe, made of self-extinguishing plastic and the
PVC insulation does not burn all that well, so I don't think a fire was
as big a risk as it looks - but it would still give me sleepless nights
if I found that in my home!

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


> > The lights started flickering, this became worse over the course of
> > about 30 mins.  I then had cause to go into the hallway where the
> > RCD cab is located and noticed an acrid burning smell.  I could
> > also hear an arcing sound from the RCD cab.  Flicked off the
> > lighting RCD whilst leaving everything else on, and the problem's
> > gone (I just have no lights!).
> 
> I imagine you mean the Consumer Unit (CU) and you flicked off the
> lighting MCB?


Yes, you're correct.

John wrote:


> 
> "Sniffy"  wrote in message
> news:1125325668.7a8b763e45159c7e9a7be07e8e3699e9@meganetnews2...
> > Fred wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> >>"> Anyway, I'll have a look tomorrow when (a) it's daylight and (b)
> > > I'll
> >>> be sober..!
> > > 
> > > Are you still with us?
> > 
> > Heh, I am indeed, but I need another beer.  I've whipped the cover
> > off the consumer unit and not liked what I found:
> > 
> > http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/1856/consumerunut002sm1uw.jpg
> > 
> > .. the MCB on the LHS is the one I switched off yesterday and
> > thought I'd isolated the problem with.  Having looked at it today
> > though, I can see the burning is on the Neutral bar and affects a
> > number of feeds.
> > 
> > A few of the screws for the return feeds onto this bar were
> > semi-loose and have now been tightened.  I don't like the state of
> > things in there though and believe it will need sorting out.
> > 
> > Does anyone know what an electrician might charge for a small job
> > like this - alternatively is it easy enough for a clumsy idiot like
> > myself?
> 
> On the good side the problem is downstream of your main isolation RCD
> so when this is switched off you are safe to work on it (Don't touch
> the thick incoming supply wires or terminals). On the downside you
> dont sound very confident and the casing might be distorted by the
> burning so replacing the terminal bar might not be an easy job. You
> will definitely need a replacement Neutral bar or rail and a
> replacement neutral link (the bit of thick wire with the burnt
> insulation and the crimped end attached).  If the casing looks sound
> then take the make and model details to a decent electrical
> wholesaler in your locality and obtain the parts. Once turned off
> changing them for new is a simple Meccano job. You may need to cut
> back the ends of the rest of the Neutral wires to get rid of the
> burnt bits and reterminate. Note that they "should" terminate in the
> same order as the corresponding lives appear in the MCBs.  If you
> aren't happy then get a pro in.


Thanks for the advice, I think I will tackle it myself.  As you
suggest, I'm not especially confident with electrics ever since I got a
bolt from a lightswitch.  That said, it does seem fairly
straightforward and with the main switch off it should be safe.

There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?  I think I'll print
the photo and take it so I can point at the bits I want.  Might make me
look like a numpty but at least I'll have a change of ending up with
the right bits.

Matt Beard wrote:


> This seems to be a great example of why possible electrical faults
> shouldn't be treated with the response "It seems to have stopped now -
> must take a look some time".
> 
> Modern CUs are, I believe, made of self-extinguishing plastic and the
> PVC insulation does not burn all that well, so I don't think a fire
> was as big a risk as it looks - but it would still give me sleepless
> nights if I found that in my home!


Tbh I was contemplating leaving it, as now the terminals are tightened
it seems the situation shouldn't deteriorate.  On balance though, the
possibility of disturbance to sleep will pursuade me to sort it.

In article <1125335979.ef8cef3e2a847b2fae3d67a1284ae3cc@meganetnews2>,
   Sniffy  wrote:

> There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
> they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public? 


It's a long time since electrical wholesalers wouldn't sell to the public.


> I think I'll print the photo and take it so I can point at the bits I
> want.  Might make me look like a numpty but at least I'll have a change
> of ending up with the right bits.


Trouble is it looks like the neutral link from main switch to busbar has
suffered. And I'm not sure you'd find one of those in stock at a
wholesaler - or the busbar. It could be that simply cleaning everything up
and repairing the insulation with sleeving etc might be ok, but check the
screws on the busbar can still be tightened until they groan. 

FWIW, most new CUs give instructions to check all the internal wiring (to
busbars, etc) is properly tightened. Seems the installing sparks ignored
this.

-- 
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial 

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Sniffy wrote:

> There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
> they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?


Dunno anything about City Electrical Factors, but there's a branch of 
TLC (www.tlc-direct.co.uk) in Slough which has always been very helpful 
to me, and very willing to sell for cash or card to Joe Public.

-- 
Tony

>
>There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
>they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?


CEF up my way welcome joe public with open arms and are extremely 
helpful and knowledgeable.
-- 
Keith

In article , Keith <roadrunner10@blue
yonder.co.uk> writes

>>
>>There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
>>they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?
>
>CEF up my way welcome joe public with open arms and are extremely 
>helpful and knowledgeable.


And the girl in WF electrical in Cambridge, you'd love to have her in
your open arms, a good few BSH's :)...
-- 
Tony Sayer

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4da223f81adave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <1125335979.ef8cef3e2a847b2fae3d67a1284ae3cc@meganetnews2>,
>   Sniffy  wrote:
>> There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
>> they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?
>
> It's a long time since electrical wholesalers wouldn't sell to the public.
>
>> I think I'll print the photo and take it so I can point at the bits I
>> want.  Might make me look like a numpty but at least I'll have a change
>> of ending up with the right bits.
>
> Trouble is it looks like the neutral link from main switch to busbar has
> suffered. And I'm not sure you'd find one of those in stock at a
> wholesaler - or the busbar.



 It could be that simply cleaning everything up

> and repairing the insulation with sleeving etc might be ok, but check the
> screws on the busbar can still be tightened until they groan.


Is "groan" a torque wrench setting? Most CU's have a Nm rating for their 
busbars which depends on the cable size into it. I was gobsmacked at how low 
they were after I bought my torque wrench.

The neutral link could be replaced with the correct cable for a few quid if 
needed.


> FWIW, most new CUs give instructions to check all the internal wiring (to
> busbars, etc) is properly tightened. Seems the installing sparks ignored
> this.



I could not agree more. The factory set terminals are usually not tight 
enough on the Volex, Crabtree and Wylex range.That is probably because they 
are all made in the same factory.

Adam

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:42:29 +0100, tony sayer 
wrote:


>In article , Keith <roadrunner10@blue
>yonder.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
>>>they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?
>>
>>CEF up my way welcome joe public with open arms and are extremely 
>>helpful and knowledgeable.
>
>And the girl in WF electrical in Cambridge, you'd love to have her in
>your open arms, a good few BSH's :)...



Bosch und Siemens Hausgerte ?



-- 

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Andy Hall
<andyh@hall.nospam> writes

>On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:42:29 +0100, tony sayer 
>wrote:
>
>>In article , Keith <roadrunner10@blue
>>yonder.co.uk> writes
>>>>
>>>>There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
>>>>they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?
>>>
>>>CEF up my way welcome joe public with open arms and are extremely 
>>>helpful and knowledgeable.
>>
>>And the girl in WF electrical in Cambridge, you'd love to have her in
>>your open arms, a good few BSH's :)...
>
>
>Bosch und Siemens Hausgerte ?
>
>
>

No,  a British Standard Handfull :)....
-- 
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 22:59:49 +0100, tony sayer 
wrote:


>In article , Andy Hall
><andyh@hall.nospam> writes
>>On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:42:29 +0100, tony sayer 
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article , Keith <roadrunner10@blue
>>>yonder.co.uk> writes
>>>>>
>>>>>There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
>>>>>they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?
>>>>
>>>>CEF up my way welcome joe public with open arms and are extremely 
>>>>helpful and knowledgeable.
>>>
>>>And the girl in WF electrical in Cambridge, you'd love to have her in
>>>your open arms, a good few BSH's :)...
>>
>>
>>Bosch und Siemens Hausgerte ?
>>
>>
>>
>No,  a British Standard Handfull :)....



I see.  Thing is, there probably is a British Standard in some way or
other.

-- 

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

ARWadsworth wrote:


> The neutral link could be replaced with the correct cable for a few quid 
> if needed.


A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.


-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

Matt Beard wrote:


> This seems to be a great example of why possible electrical faults
> shouldn't be treated with the response "It seems to have stopped now -
> must take a look some time".


Another reason why the nonsense of Part P will only serve to encourage 
accidents. How many people who in the past would have said "I will have 
the cover off and have a look" may have been dissuaded? Not many 
perhaps, but it only takes one.


-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

In article , Andy Hall
<andyh@hall.nospam> writes

>On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 22:59:49 +0100, tony sayer 
>wrote:
>
>>In article , Andy Hall
>><andyh@hall.nospam> writes
>>>On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:42:29 +0100, tony sayer 
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article , Keith <roadrunner10@blue
>>>>yonder.co.uk> writes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
>>>>>>they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?
>>>>>
>>>>>CEF up my way welcome joe public with open arms and are extremely 
>>>>>helpful and knowledgeable.
>>>>
>>>>And the girl in WF electrical in Cambridge, you'd love to have her in
>>>>your open arms, a good few BSH's :)...
>>>
>>>
>>>Bosch und Siemens Hausgerte ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>No,  a British Standard Handfull :)....
>
>
>I see.  Thing is, there probably is a British Standard in some way or
>other.
>


Yes, section DD refers...

In this instance:)....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article <43139721$0$1299$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
   John Rumm  wrote:

> > The neutral link could be replaced with the correct cable for a few
> > quid if needed.

> A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.


Trouble is if you look at the pic it's got a crimped terminal at one end.

-- 
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <43121303$0$22923$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
r.p.mcmurphy <URL:mailto:redleadertwoSPACE@SPACEntlworld.com> wrote:


> could be just a loose wire. 


What could?


> get a torch and switch everything off and have 
> a tug on the wires.


What wires?


>...DON'T touch the big black wires coming into the box 
> from the main fuse!


Why?

Perhaps if you have a look at this link, it might help:

        http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post

-- 
AJL

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


>>A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.

> Trouble is if you look at the pic it's got a crimped terminal at one end.


You could take it to the screw terminals on the output of the 
RCD/Incomer though.

-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

"John Rumm"  wrote in message 
news:4314366e$0$22909$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...

> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>>>A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.
>
>> Trouble is if you look at the pic it's got a crimped terminal at one end.
>
> You could take it to the screw terminals on the output of the RCD/Incomer 
> though.


Or buy a 25mm crimp terminal for about 20p and beg/borrow some crimpers.

Adam

Tony Eva wrote:


> Sniffy wrote:
> > There's a City Electrical Factors in Slough - does anyone know if
> > they'll do a cash sale to a member of Joe Public?
> 
> Dunno anything about City Electrical Factors, but there's a branch of
> TLC (www.tlc-direct.co.uk) in Slough which has always been very
> helpful to me, and very willing to sell for cash or card to Joe
> Public.


Well I'm pleased to say I'm back up and running with a new solution in
place and try as I might, I can't hear any arcing going on inside the
CU.

It's a long story and I'll save you all the details, but today took me
from CEF in Holborn (who "don't get on with MK so if it's not in stock
we won't order it from them") via a mythical branch of WF Electrical on
Oxford St which didn't appear to exist, then (having returned from the
big smoke) I went to TLC in Slough as you suggested.

TLC couldn't help but they pointed me to Rexel Senate in Slough (who
I'd never heard of).  The man from Senate couldn't help with the spare
parts I needed but seemed so ashamed of this fact that he discounted a
new MK sentry CU chassis for me down to 10 quid 44p plus VAT.

Having duly taken his arm off I raided the new CU kit to obtain
suitable terminal block (which only needed 1 terminal hacksawing off to
make the right size) and the neutral link.  Unfortunately the neutral
link is of a different design and I had to drill a couple of holes to
allow the fixing to interface it to the existing bar at the base of the
CU.  Drilling holes with a mains drill isn't so easy when your CU is in
pieces, I can tell you.  Memo to boss - the copper swarf on the floor
of the office isn't anything to do with me - talk to the other
keyholders...

Anyway, enough blather - here's the before and after shots.  I know
it's not perfect, but it'll do.  Thanks to all for all the advice!


Before:

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/1856/consumerunut002sm1uw.jpg

After:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2374/consumerunitfixed001sm3mk.jpg

In article <Kh2Re.99268$G8.82553@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
   ARWadsworth  wrote:

> "John Rumm"  wrote in message 
> news:4314366e$0$22909$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> > Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> >
> >>>A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.
> >
> >> Trouble is if you look at the pic it's got a crimped terminal at one
> >> end.
> >
> > You could take it to the screw terminals on the output of the
> > RCD/Incomer though.

> Or buy a 25mm crimp terminal for about 20p and beg/borrow some crimpers.


Think joe bloggs might find it difficult to find someone with a suitable
crimping tool?

-- 
*It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying. 

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


> In article <Kh2Re.99268$G8.82553@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>    ARWadsworth  wrote:
> > "John Rumm"  wrote in message 
> > news:4314366e$0$22909$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> > > Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.
> > > 
> > >> Trouble is if you look at the pic it's got a crimped terminal at
> > one >> end.
> > > 
> > > You could take it to the screw terminals on the output of the
> > > RCD/Incomer though.
> 
> > Or buy a 25mm crimp terminal for about 20p and beg/borrow some
> > crimpers.
> 
> Think joe bloggs might find it difficult to find someone with a
> suitable crimping tool?


There's always the leg of the mother-in-law's chair if all else fails.

In article <1125472115.c29607aa216652cb8c3bb5648a0412f1@meganetnews2>,
	"Sniffy"  writes:

>Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> 
>> Think joe bloggs might find it difficult to find someone with a
>> suitable crimping tool?
>
>There's always the leg of the mother-in-law's chair if all else fails.


Reminds me of working for GEC many years ago. The company would
hardly ever spend money on tools, and our attempts to get a proper
tool for putting IDC connectors on ribbon cable was ignored for
years. Of course, this just encouraged engineers to come up with
even more outrageous ways of putting these connectors onto ribbon
cable. One of the first was to carefully lay the connector and
cable in their assembled positions on the floor and then stamp on
them. After about 20 smashed connectors and a cable that had been
trimmed significantly shorter, you would get a good connection.
With practice, you could get the failure rate down to about 4 in 5.
A variation on this was to align the connector in a similar way at
the top of the desk drawer and then kick the drawer shut on it,
which improved the success rate, but each desk only did about 10
connectors before some critical bit (like the top of the wooden
drawer front) broke off. I think the most refined method eventually
adopted was to carefully position the connector in the hinge of
a door, and carefully close the door just enough to pop the
connector together. This could achieve a better than 1 in 2
success rate with practice.

The funny thing is I found myself putting this into practice for
real on a customer machine (a Videotex system being installed in
Yugoslavia about a month before the country dissolved into civil
war). There I am in Lubiyana for the day to install the system,
which won't work because a ribbon cable has been torn at the end
in transit. No chance of obtaining a replacement for one of our
proprietry cables that day. Managed to get the connector cleanly
off, and a cleanly cut cable end. This leaves me with a ribbon cable
end and a connector to assemble, and not a hope in hell of getting
an IDC assembly tool (it took an hour for someone to find us a
pair of scissors to cut the cable end square). I can't take the
ribbon cable out of the system (it's threaded with about 20 other
cables through 2 other 19" rack cabinets). I can just get the end
to the floor, so it will have to be the stamp on it method.
I only get one chance, as I only have the connector I took off.
Still, it seems all that practice paid off -- with very careful
positioning and aiming, it worked first time. The Yugoslave PTT
staff there were even more amased than me.

It was a long day, but when I left, they had a working system.
Maybe there was some method in the madness of not buying us tools
at GEC after all?

-- 
Andrew Gabriel

In article <4315700b$0$38037$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
   Andrew Gabriel  wrote:

> Reminds me of working for GEC many years ago. The company would
> hardly ever spend money on tools, and our attempts to get a proper
> tool for putting IDC connectors on ribbon cable was ignored for
> years. Of course, this just encouraged engineers to come up with
> even more outrageous ways of putting these connectors onto ribbon
> cable. One of the first was to carefully lay the connector and
> cable in their assembled positions on the floor and then stamp on
> them. After about 20 smashed connectors and a cable that had been
> trimmed significantly shorter, you would get a good connection.
> With practice, you could get the failure rate down to about 4 in 5.
> A variation on this was to align the connector in a similar way at
> the top of the desk drawer and then kick the drawer shut on it,
> which improved the success rate, but each desk only did about 10
> connectors before some critical bit (like the top of the wooden
> drawer front) broke off. I think the most refined method eventually
> adopted was to carefully position the connector in the hinge of
> a door, and carefully close the door just enough to pop the
> connector together. This could achieve a better than 1 in 2
> success rate with practice.


If you mean the sort of cable and connectors you get for say IDE HDs, I
just use a vice. Works every time.

-- 
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
	"Dave Plowman (News)"  writes:

>In article <4315700b$0$38037$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
>   Andrew Gabriel  wrote:
>> Reminds me of working for GEC many years ago. The company would
>> hardly ever spend money on tools, and our attempts to get a proper
>> tool for putting IDC connectors on ribbon cable was ignored for
>> years. Of course, this just encouraged engineers to come up with
>> even more outrageous ways of putting these connectors onto ribbon
>> cable. One of the first was to carefully lay the connector and
>> cable in their assembled positions on the floor and then stamp on
>> them. After about 20 smashed connectors and a cable that had been
>> trimmed significantly shorter, you would get a good connection.
>> With practice, you could get the failure rate down to about 4 in 5.
>> A variation on this was to align the connector in a similar way at
>> the top of the desk drawer and then kick the drawer shut on it,
>> which improved the success rate, but each desk only did about 10
>> connectors before some critical bit (like the top of the wooden
>> drawer front) broke off. I think the most refined method eventually
>> adopted was to carefully position the connector in the hinge of
>> a door, and carefully close the door just enough to pop the
>> connector together. This could achieve a better than 1 in 2
>> success rate with practice.
>
>If you mean the sort of cable and connectors you get for say IDE HDs, I
>just use a vice. Works every time.


So do I at home (have even used B&D workmate jaws).

-- 
Andrew Gabriel

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4da2bc032fdave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <Kh2Re.99268$G8.82553@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>   ARWadsworth  wrote:
>> "John Rumm"  wrote in message
>> news:4314366e$0$22909$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>> > Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> >
>> >>>A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.
>> >
>> >> Trouble is if you look at the pic it's got a crimped terminal at one
>> >> end.
>> >
>> > You could take it to the screw terminals on the output of the
>> > RCD/Incomer though.
>
>> Or buy a 25mm crimp terminal for about 20p and beg/borrow some crimpers.
>
> Think joe bloggs might find it difficult to find someone with a suitable
> crimping tool?


Maybe. But you could buy one for less than an electricians call out fee.

Adam

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:08:35 GMT, "Sniffy" 
wrote:


>Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> In article <Kh2Re.99268$G8.82553@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>>    ARWadsworth  wrote:
>> > "John Rumm"  wrote in message 
>> > news:4314366e$0$22909$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
>> > > Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > > > A short bit of 25mm^2 tail would do the trick just fine.
>> > > 
>> > >> Trouble is if you look at the pic it's got a crimped terminal at
>> > one >> end.
>> > > 
>> > > You could take it to the screw terminals on the output of the
>> > > RCD/Incomer though.
>> 
>> > Or buy a 25mm crimp terminal for about 20p and beg/borrow some
>> > crimpers.
>> 
>> Think joe bloggs might find it difficult to find someone with a
>> suitable crimping tool?
>
>There's always the leg of the mother-in-law's chair if all else fails.



That's a pain though - you'd have to unplug it....


-- 

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article <kbqRe.100047$G8.22494@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
   ARWadsworth  wrote:

> >> Or buy a 25mm crimp terminal for about 20p and beg/borrow some
> >> crimpers.
> >
> > Think joe bloggs might find it difficult to find someone with a
> > suitable crimping tool?

> Maybe. But you could buy one for less than an electricians call out fee.#


Possibly true, but few - apart from us - think like that, ;-)

-- 
*Why is the word abbreviation so long? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.