Hi

My 10 year old TV takes 5 minutes after switching on to give a picture.
The first 5 minutes show intermittent pictures flickering to a black
screen and no sound. This usually only happens on the first switch on
of the day, as if it needs to 'warm up'..

Any ideas?

Cheers
BP

eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi
> 
> My 10 year old TV takes 5 minutes after switching on to give a picture.
> The first 5 minutes show intermittent pictures flickering to a black
> screen and no sound. This usually only happens on the first switch on
> of the day, as if it needs to 'warm up'..
> 
> Any ideas?


The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply have gone high ESR
(probably).
Replace them all, or at least any warm ones.
The right tool to use to test them is an ESR meter, but you probably
don't have one.

In article <4311cb81$0$97113$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>, 
root@mauve.demon.co.uk says...

> eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
> > My 10 year old TV takes 5 minutes after switching on to give a picture.
> > The first 5 minutes show intermittent pictures flickering to a black
> > screen and no sound. This usually only happens on the first switch on
> > of the day, as if it needs to 'warm up'..
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> 
> The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply have gone high ESR
> (probably).
> Replace them all, or at least any warm ones.
> The right tool to use to test them is an ESR meter, but you probably
> don't have one.


Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate?
-- 
SAm.

On 28 Aug 2005 05:55:57 -0700, eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:


>My 10 year old TV


Buy a new one.

-- 
Nigel M

In article , sam@ssrl.org.uk 
says...

> In article <4311cb81$0$97113$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>, 
> root@mauve.demon.co.uk says...
> > eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
> > > My 10 year old TV takes 5 minutes after switching on to give a picture.
> > > The first 5 minutes show intermittent pictures flickering to a black
> > > screen and no sound. This usually only happens on the first switch on
> > > of the day, as if it needs to 'warm up'..
> > > 
> > > Any ideas?
> > 
> > The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply have gone high ESR
> > (probably).
> > Replace them all, or at least any warm ones.
> > The right tool to use to test them is an ESR meter, but you probably
> > don't have one.
> 
> Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate?
> 

effective series resistance

Ian Stirling wrote:

> eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> My 10 year old TV takes 5 minutes after switching on to give a
>> picture. The first 5 minutes show intermittent pictures flickering
>> to a black screen and no sound. This usually only happens on the
>> first switch on of the day, as if it needs to 'warm up'..
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply have gone high ESR
> (probably).
> Replace them all, or at least any warm ones.
> The right tool to use to test them is an ESR meter, but you probably
> don't have one.


Heh? Just tell him to dump it. Ten years is not worth spending money on a
TV of that age because the components are weak and on the way out.

Rob Morley wrote:

> In article ,
> sam@ssrl.org.uk says...
>> In article <4311cb81$0$97113$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>,
>> root@mauve.demon.co.uk says...
>>> eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> My 10 year old TV takes 5 minutes after switching on to give a
>>>> picture. The first 5 minutes show intermittent pictures flickering
>>>> to a black screen and no sound. This usually only happens on the
>>>> first switch on of the day, as if it needs to 'warm up'..
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply have gone high ESR
>>> (probably).
>>> Replace them all, or at least any warm ones.
>>> The right tool to use to test them is an ESR meter, but you probably
>>> don't have one.
>>
>> Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate?
>>
> effective series resistance


Equivalent series resistance. ;-)

Sam Nelson wrote:

> In article <4311cb81$0$97113$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>,
> root@mauve.demon.co.uk says...
>> eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>>> My 10 year old TV takes 5 minutes after switching on to give a
>>> picture. The first 5 minutes show intermittent pictures flickering
>>> to a black screen and no sound. This usually only happens on the
>>> first switch on of the day, as if it needs to 'warm up'..
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>> The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply have gone high ESR
>> (probably).
>> Replace them all, or at least any warm ones.
>> The right tool to use to test them is an ESR meter, but you probably
>> don't have one.
>
> Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate?


Better of trying to get blood from a stone. ;-)

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:41:46 +0100, Nigel Molesworth
 wrote:


>On 28 Aug 2005 05:55:57 -0700, eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>My 10 year old TV
>
>Buy a new one.


;-)

But like fixing an old car, a few quid and a bit of d-i-y time might
(and often does) prolong it's life for quite a while?

Since I have had this monitor style Sony 18" TV (our main TV) I have
replaced the HT transformer, a couple of small caps (causing teletext
faults) and two mains switches. Total cost over the 20 years about 50
quid?

*Having* it repaired would have cost more of course (and therefore may
not have been cost effective)  but that's why this is a d-i-y group
eh! ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:41:46 +0100, Nigel Molesworth
>  wrote:
>
>> On 28 Aug 2005 05:55:57 -0700, eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> My 10 year old TV
>>
>> Buy a new one.
>
> ;-)
>
> But like fixing an old car, a few quid and a bit of d-i-y time might
> (and often does) prolong it's life for quite a while?
>
> Since I have had this monitor style Sony 18" TV (our main TV) I have
> replaced the HT transformer, a couple of small caps (causing teletext
> faults) and two mains switches. Total cost over the 20 years about 50
> quid?
>
> *Having* it repaired would have cost more of course (and therefore may
> not have been cost effective)  but that's why this is a d-i-y group
> eh! ;-)
>
> All the best ..
>
> T i m


Fine! for you, but the OP might not be electronically minded and should not
be delving into a 4.5kV lethal piece of equipment.

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:12:58 GMT, "ben"  wrote:


>T i m wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:41:46 +0100, Nigel Molesworth
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 28 Aug 2005 05:55:57 -0700, eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> My 10 year old TV
>>>
>>> Buy a new one.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> But like fixing an old car, a few quid and a bit of d-i-y time might
>> (and often does) prolong it's life for quite a while?
>>
>> Since I have had this monitor style Sony 18" TV (our main TV) I have
>> replaced the HT transformer, a couple of small caps (causing teletext
>> faults) and two mains switches. Total cost over the 20 years about 50
>> quid?
>>
>> *Having* it repaired would have cost more of course (and therefore may
>> not have been cost effective)  but that's why this is a d-i-y group
>> eh! ;-)
>>
>> All the best ..
>>
>> T i m
>
>Fine! for you, but the OP might not be electronically minded and should not
>be delving into a 4.5kV lethal piece of equipment.


Oh indeed Ben .. and I avoid TV / Monitors wherever possible for that
reason .. however I was just answering the point re just dumping stuff
outright,  not saying the OP should do such repairs himself etc.

All the best ..

T i m

Thanks Guys.. so I understand from your comments that the best way
forward is to dump it.. there is no easy fix right?

ben formulated on Sunday :

> Fine! for you, but the OP might not be electronically minded and should not
> be delving into a 4.5kV lethal piece of equipment.


Nearer to 30Kv.

-- 

Regards,
        Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> ben formulated on Sunday :
>> Fine! for you, but the OP might not be electronically minded and
>> should not be delving into a 4.5kV lethal piece of equipment.
>
> Nearer to 30Kv.


Irrelevant, either will give you a buzz. ;-)

ben wrote:

> Fine! for you, but the OP might not be electronically minded and should not
> be delving into a 4.5kV lethal piece of equipment.
> 
> 

	Please get it right--- 25/30KV. But frequently not lethal as you jump 
too fast!!

	Regards
	Capitol

In article <dessu7$saf$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Capitol <capitol@spamfree
..freeserve.co.uk> writes

>
>
>ben wrote:
>> Fine! for you, but the OP might not be electronically minded and should not
>> be delving into a 4.5kV lethal piece of equipment.
>> 
>> 
>       Please get it right--- 25/30KV. But frequently not lethal as you jump 
>too fast!!
>
>       Regards
>       Capitol


So what are the they running final anodes at these days then, it used to
be 25 kV when I were a lad, has it gone up then?.....
-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:

> So what are the they running final anodes at these days then, it used to
> be 25 kV when I were a lad, has it gone up then?.....


	Up to 30KV for larger screen sizes. It's the only way to get the 
brightness without bending (overheating) the shadow mask AIUI.

	Regards
	Capitol

T i m  wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:41:46 +0100, Nigel Molesworth
>  wrote:
> 
>>On 28 Aug 2005 05:55:57 -0700, eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>My 10 year old TV
>>
>>Buy a new one.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> But like fixing an old car, a few quid and a bit of d-i-y time might
> (and often does) prolong it's life for quite a while?


True.
I had a nice 19" monitor, which after several years of service showed
a similar fault.
Opened it up, and diagnosis was easy - as the capacitor was warm.
Replaced it with one from the parts bin (but would have been about a pound
new) and it worked fine!
For several minutes, until I put the case back together in the wrong order,
and heard a whooshing noise, as the back of the tube cracked.

On 28 Aug 2005 19:24:32 GMT, Ian Stirling 
wrote:


>T i m  wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:41:46 +0100, Nigel Molesworth
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>On 28 Aug 2005 05:55:57 -0700, eguttridge@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>My 10 year old TV
>>>
>>>Buy a new one.
>> 
>> ;-)
>> 
>> But like fixing an old car, a few quid and a bit of d-i-y time might
>> (and often does) prolong it's life for quite a while?
>
>True.
>I had a nice 19" monitor, which after several years of service showed
>a similar fault.
>Opened it up, and diagnosis was easy - as the capacitor was warm.
>Replaced it with one from the parts bin (but would have been about a pound
>new) and it worked fine!
>For several minutes, until I put the case back together in the wrong order,
>and heard a whooshing noise, as the back of the tube cracked.


Oh no! Don't you just hate it when that happens .. ;-(

A mate did the same with his video .. found a fuse gone and went to
test it with a logic board propped up with a small screwdriver. When
he turned it on it worked .. or did until the screwdriver fell over
onto another board ... ;-(

But, for every one we loose there might be one we win ... 

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:


> A mate did the same with his video .. found a fuse gone and went to
> test it with a logic board propped up with a small screwdriver. When
> he turned it on it worked .. or did until the screwdriver fell over
> onto another board ... ;-(
> 
> But, for every one we loose there might be one we win ... 


I did that on an old amp/receiver - was tracing through looking for a 
minor PSU fault, when trying to reach a little too close to the legs of 
another component with a DMM probe resulted in a quick flash and a now 
totally dead amp!

-- 
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
|          Internode Ltd -  http://www.internode.co.uk            |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|        John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk              |
\=================================================================/

Nigel Molesworth wrote:

> On 28 Aug 2005 05:55:57 -0700, eguttridge@gmail.com wrote: 
>> My 10 year old TV
> Buy a new one.


It seems to work perfectly when turned off. Alternatively throw the old 
one away to free up the space and everything should be fine. ;)

Rem

"ben"  wrote in message
news:TEkQe.97807$G8.843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Heh? Just tell him to dump it. Ten years is not worth spending money
on a
> TV of that age because the components are weak and on the way out.


I don't think that sweeping statement is at all accurate.
The failure of one part does not condemn the rest.

Of course there are economic repair considerations as time goes by but
10 years doesn't sound very long, I've seen equipment lasting twice
that for the expense of a few pounds d-i-y on replacing the 'usual
suspects'.

As a confirmed d-i-y 'er the modern idea of just dumping items at the
first sign of trouble goes against the grain.   Sounds more like
'can't be bothered' to me.

Roger

Roger R wrote:

> "ben"  wrote in message
> news:TEkQe.97807$G8.843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Heh? Just tell him to dump it. Ten years is not worth spending money
>> on a TV of that age because the components are weak and on the way
>> out.
>
> I don't think that sweeping statement is at all accurate.
> The failure of one part does not condemn the rest.
>
> Of course there are economic repair considerations as time goes by but
> 10 years doesn't sound very long, I've seen equipment lasting twice
> that for the expense of a few pounds d-i-y on replacing the 'usual
> suspects'.
>
> As a confirmed d-i-y 'er the modern idea of just dumping items at the
> first sign of trouble goes against the grain.   Sounds more like
> 'can't be bothered' to me.
>
> Roger


As far as I'm concerned TV components in the LOPT stage and various other
stages that take a lot of punishment after ten years is not worth pissing
about with if it means repairing it maybe a month or two further down the
line.

Like I said somewhere else in the thread, if the OP is conversant with the
innards of a TV then fine attempt to repair it,otherwise it don't justify
the repair bill.
I was fed up in the past with a few people bringing their sets back to me
saying.."its gone again", only to find out it was a different fault to the
last repair, meaning they got a free repair because they did not understand
and they thought it was the same problem.
So I jibbed the TV repairs as pocket money.

In article <53CQe.98330$G8.41608@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, ben
 writes

>Roger R wrote:
>> "ben"  wrote in message
>> news:TEkQe.97807$G8.843@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>> Heh? Just tell him to dump it. Ten years is not worth spending money
>>> on a TV of that age because the components are weak and on the way
>>> out.
>>
>> I don't think that sweeping statement is at all accurate.
>> The failure of one part does not condemn the rest.
>>
>> Of course there are economic repair considerations as time goes by but
>> 10 years doesn't sound very long, I've seen equipment lasting twice
>> that for the expense of a few pounds d-i-y on replacing the 'usual
>> suspects'.
>>
>> As a confirmed d-i-y 'er the modern idea of just dumping items at the
>> first sign of trouble goes against the grain.   Sounds more like
>> 'can't be bothered' to me.
>>
>> Roger
>
>As far as I'm concerned TV components in the LOPT stage and various other
>stages that take a lot of punishment after ten years is not worth pissing
>about with if it means repairing it maybe a month or two further down the
>line.
>
>Like I said somewhere else in the thread, if the OP is conversant with the
>innards of a TV then fine attempt to repair it,otherwise it don't justify
>the repair bill.
>I was fed up in the past with a few people bringing their sets back to me
>saying.."its gone again", only to find out it was a different fault to the
>last repair, meaning they got a free repair because they did not understand
>and they thought it was the same problem.
>So I jibbed the TV repairs as pocket money.
>
>


Depends on the equipment. Last year I overhauled a QUAD 303 power amp
with new capacitors etc. Cost around 20 quid. It was built in 1971 and I
reckon its good for another 20 odd years!.

Still sounds fine, and measures well even compared to most modern stuff.

Unfortunately most consumer gear wasn't built like they were.....
-- 
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:42:19 +0100, tony sayer 
wrote:



> Last year I overhauled a QUAD 303 power amp
>with new capacitors etc. Cost around 20 quid. It was built in 1971 and I
>reckon its good for another 20 odd years!.
>
>Still sounds fine, and measures well even compared to most modern stuff.
>
>Unfortunately most consumer gear wasn't built like they were.....


And a lot of people 'must have' the latest thing, dumping a 33 and 303
in the process (a mate found a pair of such, in boxes, as new, in the
local tip and bought them off the guy for a fiver ..)!

Our little 18" Sony TV maybe 20 years old, doesn't have Nicam nor even
a SCART connector but it's cost us nothing to keep running, still
works ok and looks fairly 'modern'. Anyway, I don't think I could cope
with Contamination St, Deadenders etc on anything bigger and in
stereo! <shudder> ;-(

We now own loads of very functional things because folk were about to
throw them away and I saved them from the brink and repaired them. The
last couple were a Dyson DC01 that just needed a decent service and
now my Mum has it (it looked like new when I finished with it) and a
decent sized shredder that was just bunged up between the cutters and
needed a good clean out?

I think if it's basically 'mechanical' it's worth a try or even
possibly 'older' electronics .. after that I'm not sure I would bother
too hard .. ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

OK - so I'll give it a go. I'm no electronics expert, but not such an
idiot either. can anyone give me a detailed idea of what needs to be
done where?

On 7 Sep,  
     "E"  wrote:


> OK - so I'll give it a go. I'm no electronics expert, but not such an
> idiot either. can anyone give me a detailed idea of what needs to be
> done where?
> 

Buy a new set. The tube has probably worn out.


-- 
  B Thumbs
  Change lycos to yahoo to reply

E wrote:

> OK - so I'll give it a go. I'm no electronics expert, but not such an
> idiot either. can anyone give me a detailed idea of what needs to be
> done where?


I'm not being funny here, but realistic. Electronics is pretty complex
stuff, with several hundreds of parts minimum, and fault finding is not
a step that can be skipped. If you try this and that cos someone said
so, youre wasting your time in 99% of cases.

NT