I'm looking to buy a cheap laptop & have been looking at the Dell website.

To get the lowest price I have to opt for the 90 day collect & return
service instead of the default 1 year cover.

I contacted Dell via phone (overseas call centre) & tried to get a straight
answer about the actual cover.

I was told that if I chose the 90 day Collect and Return (CAR) cover then it
is only guaranteed for 90 days.

So if  lets say after 4 months the processor or hardrive or other component
fails then its tough.

Is this correct????  I thought that new products sold under UK law would be
covered for at least 12 months.

Has anyone had any experience of this.

Thanks in advance

Ian

Can I also add that the laptop I'm interested in is Brand New & not a Refurb

Thanks

Bargains wrote:

> I'm looking to buy a cheap laptop & have been looking at the Dell website.
> 
> To get the lowest price I have to opt for the 90 day collect & return
> service instead of the default 1 year cover.
> 
> I contacted Dell via phone (overseas call centre) & tried to get a straight
> answer about the actual cover.
> 
> I was told that if I chose the 90 day Collect and Return (CAR) cover then it
> is only guaranteed for 90 days.
> 

<snip>

It probably means that after 90 days you have to send it back at 
your own expense.  Or it could mean something else!

"Trevor"  wrote in message
news:den3ma$qrg$1@news.freedom2surf.net...

>
> It probably means that after 90 days you have to send it back at
> your own expense.


Yes, that's what it means.

"Road_Hog" wrote:

> 
> "Trevor"  wrote in message
> news:den3ma$qrg$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
> >
> > It probably means that after 90 days you have to send it back at
> > your own expense.
> 
> Yes, that's what it means.


Yes, he still has the statutory one year warranty.

"Bargains"  wrote in message 
news:VADPe.469$s4.166@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...

> I'm looking to buy a cheap laptop & have been looking at the Dell website.
>
> To get the lowest price I have to opt for the 90 day collect & return
> service instead of the default 1 year cover.
>
> I contacted Dell via phone (overseas call centre) & tried to get a 
> straight
> answer about the actual cover.
>
> I was told that if I chose the 90 day Collect and Return (CAR) cover then 
> it
> is only guaranteed for 90 days.
>
> So if  lets say after 4 months the processor or hardrive or other 
> component
> fails then its tough.
>
> Is this correct????  I thought that new products sold under UK law would 
> be
> covered for at least 12 months.
>
> Has anyone had any experience of this.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Ian


Its a scam, to try and encourage you to get a better warranty, when i 
quizzed a member of the support staff, he seemed to beleive, that even 
though it says ninety days, it really is a year, its only ninety days if the 
fault is yours and not theirs.
There is no way it would stand up in court. As I said, it is just a scam to 
get you to buy the warranty (as they make little money on the bare hardware, 
their CEO was bitching the other day, that they have made a marketing error 
in selling such cheap machines, without the extras).

Gaz

"Road_Hog"  wrote in message 
news:430f1289$0$17501$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...

>
> "Trevor"  wrote in message
> news:den3ma$qrg$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>>
>> It probably means that after 90 days you have to send it back at
>> your own expense.
>
> Yes, that's what it means.


How does that comply with the latest alterations to the sale of goods act, 
where if the product fails within the first six months, the onus is on the 
seller to prove the error was not theirs?? It could be argued, that forcing 
buyers to pay for the sending back, is an admission of fault on the buyers 
part.......

Gaz

Gaz wrote:

> 
> "Bargains"  wrote in message
> news:VADPe.469$s4.166@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
> > I'm looking to buy a cheap laptop & have been looking at the Dell website.
> >
> > To get the lowest price I have to opt for the 90 day collect & return
> > service instead of the default 1 year cover.
> >
> > I contacted Dell via phone (overseas call centre) & tried to get a
> > straight
> > answer about the actual cover.
> >
> > I was told that if I chose the 90 day Collect and Return (CAR) cover then
> > it
> > is only guaranteed for 90 days.
> >
> > So if  lets say after 4 months the processor or hardrive or other
> > component
> > fails then its tough.
> >
> > Is this correct????  I thought that new products sold under UK law would
> > be
> > covered for at least 12 months.
> >
> > Has anyone had any experience of this.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Ian
> 
> Its a scam, to try and encourage you to get a better warranty, when i
> quizzed a member of the support staff, he seemed to beleive, that even
> though it says ninety days, it really is a year, its only ninety days if the
> fault is yours and not theirs.
> There is no way it would stand up in court. As I said, it is just a scam to
> get you to buy the warranty (as they make little money on the bare hardware,
> their CEO was bitching the other day, that they have made a marketing error
> in selling such cheap machines, without the extras).
> 
> Gaz


It usually says something like "This does not affect your statutory rights",
but doesn't tell you what that is; you have to find out for yourself.

Johannes wrote:

> Gaz wrote:
>>
>> "Bargains"  wrote in message
>> news:VADPe.469$s4.166@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
>>> I'm looking to buy a cheap laptop & have been looking at the Dell 
>>> website.
>>>
>>> To get the lowest price I have to opt for the 90 day collect & return
>>> service instead of the default 1 year cover.
>>>
>>> I contacted Dell via phone (overseas call centre) & tried to get a
>>> straight
>>> answer about the actual cover.
>>>
>>> I was told that if I chose the 90 day Collect and Return (CAR) cover 
>>> then
>>> it
>>> is only guaranteed for 90 days.
>>>
>>> So if  lets say after 4 months the processor or hardrive or other
>>> component
>>> fails then its tough.
>>>
>>> Is this correct????  I thought that new products sold under UK law would
>>> be
>>> covered for at least 12 months.
>>>
>>> Has anyone had any experience of this.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Ian
>>
>> Its a scam, to try and encourage you to get a better warranty, when i
>> quizzed a member of the support staff, he seemed to beleive, that even
>> though it says ninety days, it really is a year, its only ninety days if 
>> the
>> fault is yours and not theirs.
>> There is no way it would stand up in court. As I said, it is just a scam 
>> to
>> get you to buy the warranty (as they make little money on the bare 
>> hardware,
>> their CEO was bitching the other day, that they have made a marketing 
>> error
>> in selling such cheap machines, without the extras).
>>
>> Gaz
>
> It usually says something like "This does not affect your statutory 
> rights",
> but doesn't tell you what that is; you have to find out for yourself.


Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the 
legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year 
warranty. Of course, I would like to be a fly on the wall of a county court 
hearing with the Dell representative trying to argue why they have no 
responsibility for a machine that dies three months and a day after 
purchase.....


Gaz

Gaz wrote:

> 
> Johannes wrote:
> > Gaz wrote:
> >>
> >> "Bargains"  wrote in message
> >> news:VADPe.469$s4.166@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
> >>> I'm looking to buy a cheap laptop & have been looking at the Dell
> >>> website.
> >>>
> >>> To get the lowest price I have to opt for the 90 day collect & return
> >>> service instead of the default 1 year cover.
> >>>
> >>> I contacted Dell via phone (overseas call centre) & tried to get a
> >>> straight
> >>> answer about the actual cover.
> >>>
> >>> I was told that if I chose the 90 day Collect and Return (CAR) cover
> >>> then
> >>> it
> >>> is only guaranteed for 90 days.
> >>>
> >>> So if  lets say after 4 months the processor or hardrive or other
> >>> component
> >>> fails then its tough.
> >>>
> >>> Is this correct????  I thought that new products sold under UK law would
> >>> be
> >>> covered for at least 12 months.
> >>>
> >>> Has anyone had any experience of this.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks in advance
> >>>
> >>> Ian
> >>
> >> Its a scam, to try and encourage you to get a better warranty, when i
> >> quizzed a member of the support staff, he seemed to beleive, that even
> >> though it says ninety days, it really is a year, its only ninety days if
> >> the
> >> fault is yours and not theirs.
> >> There is no way it would stand up in court. As I said, it is just a scam
> >> to
> >> get you to buy the warranty (as they make little money on the bare
> >> hardware,
> >> their CEO was bitching the other day, that they have made a marketing
> >> error
> >> in selling such cheap machines, without the extras).
> >>
> >> Gaz
> >
> > It usually says something like "This does not affect your statutory
> > rights",
> > but doesn't tell you what that is; you have to find out for yourself.
> 
> Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the
> legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year
> warranty. Of course, I would like to be a fly on the wall of a county court
> hearing with the Dell representative trying to argue why they have no
> responsibility for a machine that dies three months and a day after
> purchase.....
> 
> Gaz


Oh, it's very complicated. But as a consumer, you can assume a one year
no quibble warranty. It may even be longer under some circumstances, but
then you might have more hassle to prove that the item should be expected
to last longer, e.g. washing machines. If the sale is inside the trade,
then they can override all that by writing a contract, e.g. the trade
might sell items among themselves that are not ready for the consumer.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:22:16 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:


>
>Gaz wrote:

>> Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the
>> legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year
>> warranty. [snip]

>Oh, it's very complicated. 


It is very simple.  There is no requirement at all for a supplier or
distributor or manufacturer to give any warrantee at all.  If they do
it can be for any length they like.  However, the warranty, if any,
(in consumer purchases) is now a contractual condition and can be
enforced against the warrantee provider who is usually not the
seller.


>But as a consumer, you can assume a one year
>no quibble warranty. 


You have separate rights under the Sale of Goods Act. These are all
against the seller.  If the goods fail in the first six months there
is a presumption that they were faulty when they were bought and
unless the seller can prove otherwise you can expect repair or
replacement.  

After that it is up to you to prove that any fault was caused by
something which existed at the time of sale (such as a badly made
connection or a faulty component).  This may not be too difficult - a
TV tube which fails at 9 months should have had a longer life - that
alone is adequate "proof".  The further away from purchase you get
the harder it is to show pre-existing fault, and the price and
quality of the goods are taken into account so there is no hard and
fast rule.  There is certainly nothing significant about 12 months
other than it tends to be a common warranty length.




-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

> Yes, he still has the statutory one year warranty.


There is no statutory 1 years warranty - this has been covered lots of 
times in uk.legal - although if you pay by credit card, I think you`d be 
well placed to argue that a computer should last longer than 3 months 
and was therefore not of merchantable quality.

"Peter Parry"  wrote in message
news:g8hug1hvbq6vscos6d4cii9kb2lgltfgph@4ax.com...

> It is very simple.  There is no requirement at all for a supplier or
> distributor or manufacturer to give any warrantee at all. <<


Technically they don't have to to offer a warranty, but they are under an
obligation to "warrant" the goods for at least 12 months.

Peter Parry wrote:

> 
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 15:22:16 GMT, Johannes
>  wrote:
> 
> >
> >Gaz wrote:
> 
> >> Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the
> >> legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year
> >> warranty. [snip]
> 
> >Oh, it's very complicated.
> 
> It is very simple.  There is no requirement at all for a supplier or
> distributor or manufacturer to give any warrantee at all.  If they do
> it can be for any length they like.  However, the warranty, if any,
> (in consumer purchases) is now a contractual condition and can be
> enforced against the warrantee provider who is usually not the
> seller.
> 
> >But as a consumer, you can assume a one year
> >no quibble warranty.
> 
> You have separate rights under the Sale of Goods Act. These are all
> against the seller.  If the goods fail in the first six months there
> is a presumption that they were faulty when they were bought and
> unless the seller can prove otherwise you can expect repair or
> replacement.
> 
> After that it is up to you to prove that any fault was caused by
> something which existed at the time of sale (such as a badly made
> connection or a faulty component).  This may not be too difficult - a
> TV tube which fails at 9 months should have had a longer life - that
> alone is adequate "proof".  The further away from purchase you get
> the harder it is to show pre-existing fault, and the price and
> quality of the goods are taken into account so there is no hard and
> fast rule.  There is certainly nothing significant about 12 months
> other than it tends to be a common warranty length.


I do find it very complicated, but that's just me. That's why I apply
this rule of thumb: The contract is with the vendor. If less than 12
months from purchase, then repair or refund. If more than 12 month,
then cover may be possible but not as straightforward. This is the
minimum expectation, the warranty length may sometimes be greater.

Colin Wilson wrote:

> 
> > Yes, he still has the statutory one year warranty.
> 
> There is no statutory 1 years warranty - this has been covered lots of
> times in uk.legal - although if you pay by credit card, I think you`d be
> well placed to argue that a computer should last longer than 3 months
> and was therefore not of merchantable quality.


If there is no statutory 1 year warranty, then it must be 90 days?
Why should it be longer if Dell defines merchantable quality as 90 days?

In article , gazter@msn.com says...
<snip>

> Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the 
> legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year 
> warranty. Of course, I would like to be a fly on the wall of a county court 
> hearing with the Dell representative trying to argue why they have no 
> responsibility for a machine that dies three months and a day after 
> purchase.....
> 

The legislation basically says that an item should last as long as it's 
reasonable to expect it to last, which means that for some items you 
have less than a year's warranty but for others considerably more.

> > There is no statutory 1 years warranty - this has been covered lots of
> > times in uk.legal
> If there is no statutory 1 year warranty, then it must be 90 days?
> Why should it be longer if Dell defines merchantable quality as 90 days?


Dunno - IANAL

Rob Morley wrote:

> 
> In article , gazter@msn.com says...
> <snip>
> > Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the
> > legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year
> > warranty. Of course, I would like to be a fly on the wall of a county court
> > hearing with the Dell representative trying to argue why they have no
> > responsibility for a machine that dies three months and a day after
> > purchase.....
> >
> The legislation basically says that an item should last as long as it's
> reasonable to expect it to last, which means that for some items you
> have less than a year's warranty but for others considerably more.


This doesn't sound very binding, though. Then Dell could e.g. turn around
and say that the reliability of a PC depends on the quality grade, and
that they've graded those particular computers to last for 3 months without
faults... After 3 months you're on your own m8.

Johannes wrote:

> Rob Morley wrote:
>>
>> In article , gazter@msn.com says...
>> <snip>
>>> Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the
>>> legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year
>>> warranty. Of course, I would like to be a fly on the wall of a county 
>>> court
>>> hearing with the Dell representative trying to argue why they have no
>>> responsibility for a machine that dies three months and a day after
>>> purchase.....
>>>
>> The legislation basically says that an item should last as long as it's
>> reasonable to expect it to last, which means that for some items you
>> have less than a year's warranty but for others considerably more.
>
> This doesn't sound very binding, though. Then Dell could e.g. turn around
> and say that the reliability of a PC depends on the quality grade, and
> that they've graded those particular computers to last for 3 months 
> without
> faults... After 3 months you're on your own m8.


Would it be considered reasonable for a PC to last only three months?? I 
would find it hard to get a judge to agree it so.

Gaz

"Johannes"  wrote in message 
news:430F66A7.C6755F3D@spam-gets-snuffed-sizefitter.com...

>
>
> Rob Morley wrote:
>>
>> In article , gazter@msn.com says...
>> <snip>
>> > Is the one year warranty statutory or customary? I dont think the
>> > legislation covering consumer rights mentions a compulsery one year
>> > warranty. Of course, I would like to be a fly on the wall of a county 
>> > court
>> > hearing with the Dell representative trying to argue why they have no
>> > responsibility for a machine that dies three months and a day after
>> > purchase.....
>> >
>> The legislation basically says that an item should last as long as it's
>> reasonable to expect it to last, which means that for some items you
>> have less than a year's warranty but for others considerably more.
>
> This doesn't sound very binding, though. Then Dell could e.g. turn around
> and say that the reliability of a PC depends on the quality grade, and
> that they've graded those particular computers to last for 3 months 
> without
> faults... After 3 months you're on your own m8.


It's not for Dell to decide.  If it came down to litigation, the deciding 
factor would be the length of time a reasonable person would expect the 
goods to last.  The opinion of a related professional body can also be used 
as evidence.

-- 
<<<  Unlock Your Phone's Potential  >>>
<<<        www.uselessinfo.org.uk       >>>
<<<     www.thephonelocker.co.uk    >>>
<<<      www.gsm-solutions.co.uk      >>>

"Johannes"  wrote in message 
news:430F66A7.C6755F3D@spam-gets-snuffed-sizefitter.com...

> This doesn't sound very binding, though. Then Dell could e.g. turn around
> and say that the reliability of a PC depends on the quality grade, and
> that they've graded those particular computers to last for 3 months 
> without
> faults... After 3 months you're on your own m8.


Wrong, in the first 6 months it's up to Dell to prove the fault didn't exist 
at the point of sale.  After that you may need to ask someone at your local 
university to write a report out for you explaining the goods should last 
longer than they have.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:41:08 +0100, "Road_Hog" 
wrote:


>Technically they don't have to to offer a warranty, but they are under an
>obligation to "warrant" the goods for at least 12 months.


No they are not - if they offer a warranty it can be for 5 minutes or
50 years - there is no time limit whatsoever.

-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:51:17 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:



>I do find it very complicated, but that's just me. That's why I apply
>this rule of thumb: The contract is with the vendor. If less than 12
>months from purchase, then repair or refund. If more than 12 month,
>then cover may be possible but not as straightforward. 


Your rule may keep you happy, however it has no basis in law.

-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Reg McCoy wrote:

> 
> "Johannes"  wrote in message
> news:430F66A7.C6755F3D@spam-gets-snuffed-sizefitter.com...
> > This doesn't sound very binding, though. Then Dell could e.g. turn around
> > and say that the reliability of a PC depends on the quality grade, and
> > that they've graded those particular computers to last for 3 months
> > without
> > faults... After 3 months you're on your own m8.
> 
> Wrong, in the first 6 months it's up to Dell to prove the fault didn't exist
> at the point of sale.  After that you may need to ask someone at your local
> university to write a report out for you explaining the goods should last
> longer than they have.


I know that it's probably wrong, but that was my argument. But according to the
poster, the law says:

 "The legislation basically says that an item should last as long as it's
  reasonable to expect it to last"

Then surely, it's up to Dell to grade their products. Just as you can buy
ordinary and long-life bulbs. Otherwise, there is an implicit assumption
about the length of the warranty period. Not all computers are of the same
grade, e.g. a server for a bank or on a computer on a fighter plane is
expected to be very reliable. Some PCs, like the one I'm using now, has
run happily for 10 years. Should the warranty length therefore be 10 years?

Peter Parry wrote:

> 
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:51:17 GMT, Johannes
>  wrote:
> 
> >I do find it very complicated, but that's just me. That's why I apply
> >this rule of thumb: The contract is with the vendor. If less than 12
> >months from purchase, then repair or refund. If more than 12 month,
> >then cover may be possible but not as straightforward.
> 
> Your rule may keep you happy, however it has no basis in law.


However, the law (as explained in this thread) isn't very clear.
There is no warranty period, yet there is somehow an expectation of a 
warranty period??? Or an implied warranty period??? Without clear
rules, anything can happen.

Peter Parry wrote:

> 
> On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:41:08 +0100, "Road_Hog" 
> wrote:
> 
> >Technically they don't have to to offer a warranty, but they are under an
> >obligation to "warrant" the goods for at least 12 months.
> 
> No they are not - if they offer a warranty it can be for 5 minutes or
> 50 years - there is no time limit whatsoever.


In which case, Dell's warranty *is* 90 days???

Johannes wrote:

> Reg McCoy wrote:
>>
>> "Johannes"  wrote in message
>> news:430F66A7.C6755F3D@spam-gets-snuffed-sizefitter.com...
>>> This doesn't sound very binding, though. Then Dell could e.g. turn 
>>> around
>>> and say that the reliability of a PC depends on the quality grade, and
>>> that they've graded those particular computers to last for 3 months
>>> without
>>> faults... After 3 months you're on your own m8.
>>
>> Wrong, in the first 6 months it's up to Dell to prove the fault didn't 
>> exist
>> at the point of sale.  After that you may need to ask someone at your 
>> local
>> university to write a report out for you explaining the goods should last
>> longer than they have.
>
> I know that it's probably wrong, but that was my argument. But according 
> to
> the poster, the law says:
>
> "The legislation basically says that an item should last as long as it's
>  reasonable to expect it to last"
>
> Then surely, it's up to Dell to grade their products. Just as you can buy
> ordinary and long-life bulbs. Otherwise, there is an implicit assumption
> about the length of the warranty period. Not all computers are of the same
> grade, e.g. a server for a bank or on a computer on a fighter plane is
> expected to be very reliable. Some PCs, like the one I'm using now, has
> run happily for 10 years. Should the warranty length therefore be 10 
> years?


Liability ends after six years, so it is moot, for ten.  It is all about 
reasonableness. I would find it hard for a court of law to decide it is 
reasonable for a none disposable piece of consumer electronics, which has an 
historic lifespan of between eighteen months and three years, to be durable 
if breaks after only three months.

I can be pretty certain Dell would fold on a phone call, and i am absolutely 
certain they would fold on a county courts summon.

Gaz

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:18:15 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:




>In which case, Dell's warranty *is* 90 days???


No, they seem to be offering a 90 day tech support and 6 day
collect/fix/return time as part of their "Collect and Support" which
runs in parallel with their 12 month warranty.
 

-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:13:53 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:


>However, the law (as explained in this thread) isn't very clear.


It is very clear - but you are mixing up warranty and contract.  A
warranty is something offered by the
supplier/distributor/manufacturer which is in addition to any legal
rights you might have.  It simplifies the process of repair for both
parties.  


>yet there is somehow an expectation of a 
>warranty period??? Or an implied warranty period??? Without clear
>rules, anything can happen.


There is a requirement that goods "conform to contract", this
includes (in consumer sales) an implied condition about satisfactory
quality.  This takes into account such factors as the cost of the
original item.  If you bought a Yang Po Industries TV for GBP25 you
wouldn't expect the same life out of it as from a Sony at GBP500.

The time something should be expected to last is indeed a decision
made on the day.  In most cases it isn't a very difficult one.
However, if you buy from suppliers who are competing only on price
you can expect more hassle than from other suppliers who believe
service matters.  This is true of both Internet and High Street
sales.

-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Johannes"  wrote in message 
news:430FBB92.DE77B61A@spam-gets-snuffed-sizefitter.com...

>
>
> Reg McCoy wrote:
>>
>> "Johannes"  wrote in message
>> news:430F66A7.C6755F3D@spam-gets-snuffed-sizefitter.com...
>> > This doesn't sound very binding, though. Then Dell could e.g. turn 
>> > around
>> > and say that the reliability of a PC depends on the quality grade, and
>> > that they've graded those particular computers to last for 3 months
>> > without
>> > faults... After 3 months you're on your own m8.
>>
>> Wrong, in the first 6 months it's up to Dell to prove the fault didn't 
>> exist
>> at the point of sale.  After that you may need to ask someone at your 
>> local
>> university to write a report out for you explaining the goods should last
>> longer than they have.
>
> I know that it's probably wrong, but that was my argument. But according 
> to the
> poster, the law says:


The point is, Dell are automatically assumed guilty for any fault in the 
first 6 months, after that it's up to you to get a report showing what the 
fault is and if it was present at manufacture.

I think Dell operate out of Ireland which may operate automatic 
responsibility up to 2 years.  I've bought 15-20 Sony Vaios over the last 15 
years or so and I've only recently noticed warranties for some European 
countries (Germany) are now 2 years!!!  After then it's up to the owner to 
prove the fault was present when manufactured.

I don't understand considering we pay the highest prices in Europe, we now 
have the worst consumer protection laws in the European Union.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:09:05 GMT, "Reg McCoy" 
wrote:




>I think Dell operate out of Ireland which may operate automatic 
>responsibility up to 2 years.  


It doesn't, nor does the rest of the EU.  Companies may, for
commercial reasons, decide to offer different warranty length in
different countries but the "EU 2 year statutory warranty" is a myth.


>I don't understand considering we pay the highest prices in Europe, we now 
>have the worst consumer protection laws in the European Union.


You don't,  most countries in the EU restrict claims on faulty goods
to a maximum of two years after purchase.  In the UK this period is 6
years.


-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:41:08 +0100, "Road_Hog" 
wrote:


>Technically they don't have to to offer a warranty, but they are under an
>obligation to "warrant" the goods for at least 12 months.


Care to point out any law which says that?


-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Peter Parry wrote:

> 
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:09:05 GMT, "Reg McCoy" 
> wrote:
> 
> >I think Dell operate out of Ireland which may operate automatic
> >responsibility up to 2 years.
> 
> It doesn't, nor does the rest of the EU.  Companies may, for
> commercial reasons, decide to offer different warranty length in
> different countries but the "EU 2 year statutory warranty" is a myth.
> 
> >I don't understand considering we pay the highest prices in Europe, we now
> >have the worst consumer protection laws in the European Union.
> 
> You don't,  most countries in the EU restrict claims on faulty goods
> to a maximum of two years after purchase.  In the UK this period is 6
> years.

                                                                      
Yeah, right. But has this been tested in an actual case?

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:55:57 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:



>Peter Parry wrote:

>> You don't,  most countries in the EU restrict claims on faulty goods
>> to a maximum of two years after purchase.  In the UK this period is 6
>> years.
>                                                                      
>Yeah, right. But has this been tested in an actual case?


Many times - but the 6 years is nothing to do with the Sale of Goods
Act (SOGA) or any other consumer/trade legislation but is contained
within the Limitations Act.  This act lays down maximum periods after
which it is not possible to take legal action and is not restricted
to trade but covers many things such as claiming for damages for
injury, recovering debts etc.  It does not create an expectation that
goods should last for any particular period.

In many Continental countries the limitation on claiming against the
seller for faulty goods was contained within local equivalents of the
SOGA or country specific limitations acts and was often very short -
France was 12 months I think and some were as low as six months.
After this time no action could be taken irrespective of the cause of
the failure.

The EU decided it would be a good idea to create uniform(ish) rules
to encourage cross border trade so thought up Directive 1999/44/EC on
the Sale of Consumer Goods, this was incorporated into UK law as the
Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 which became
effective in 2003.

In many countries implementing the EU directive extended the time
consumers could claim against a retailer for faulty goods and created
a minimum limitation period of 2 years.  This led to the myth of the
"EU 2yr guarantee" which reappears from time to time.  In fact all it
did was moved the cutoff period after which it was impossible to take
action to at least 2 years in every EU country.  In the UK the period
was already 6 years so remained unaltered.

-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Peter Parry wrote:

> 
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:55:57 GMT, Johannes
>  wrote:
> 
> >Peter Parry wrote:
> 
> >> You don't,  most countries in the EU restrict claims on faulty goods
> >> to a maximum of two years after purchase.  In the UK this period is 6
> >> years.
> >
> >Yeah, right. But has this been tested in an actual case?
> 
> Many times - but the 6 years is nothing to do with the Sale of Goods
> Act (SOGA) or any other consumer/trade legislation but is contained
> within the Limitations Act.  This act lays down maximum periods after
> which it is not possible to take legal action and is not restricted
> to trade but covers many things such as claiming for damages for
> injury, recovering debts etc.  It does not create an expectation that
> goods should last for any particular period.
> 
> In many Continental countries the limitation on claiming against the
> seller for faulty goods was contained within local equivalents of the
> SOGA or country specific limitations acts and was often very short -
> France was 12 months I think and some were as low as six months.
> After this time no action could be taken irrespective of the cause of
> the failure.
> 
> The EU decided it would be a good idea to create uniform(ish) rules
> to encourage cross border trade so thought up Directive 1999/44/EC on
> the Sale of Consumer Goods, this was incorporated into UK law as the
> Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 which became
> effective in 2003.
> 
> In many countries implementing the EU directive extended the time
> consumers could claim against a retailer for faulty goods and created
> a minimum limitation period of 2 years.  This led to the myth of the
> "EU 2yr guarantee" which reappears from time to time.  In fact all it
> did was moved the cutoff period after which it was impossible to take
> action to at least 2 years in every EU country.  In the UK the period
> was already 6 years so remained unaltered.


No wonder that there is a lot of confusion. Such 6 year limitation is of
very little practical benefit to the consumer. Perhaps this was the idea
all along. If there is no certain warranty anyway, then it will take a
very determined consumer to pursue a case beyond the stated warranty
period but within the 6 year claim limitation period. 

The OP's concern highlights the confusion. This leads to the suspicion
that perhaps Dell is exploiting a loophole, perhaps in the quest to get
customers to sign up to an extended warranty - they have to make money 
somewhere...

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:42:09 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:



>No wonder that there is a lot of confusion. Such 6 year limitation is of
>very little practical benefit to the consumer. 


It is of considerable benefit in that it allows claims for failure of
high value high quality items to be made well outside any warranty
period.  It also maintains the essential link between price, quality
and longevity.


>Perhaps this was the idea all along. 


Both the SOGA and Limitations Act have been around for over a
century, if it is a plot it is a very cunning one.


>If there is no certain warranty anyway, then it will take a
>very determined consumer to pursue a case beyond the stated warranty
>period but within the 6 year claim limitation period. 


Not really, it requires the consumer to have evidence to support
their claim but that is not unreasonable. It can be done in a county
court (small claims track) and very many have done so successfully.
It doesn't allow the person who buys on price alone to claim an
unreasonable life for cheap tat, again hardly unreasonable.


>The OP's concern highlights the confusion. This leads to the suspicion
>that perhaps Dell is exploiting a loophole, 


They are offering a 12 month warranty with three months guaranteed
service and support level.  What "loophole" do you think they are
they exploiting?

-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Peter Parry wrote:

> 
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:42:09 GMT, Johannes
>  wrote:
> 
[...]
> 
> >The OP's concern highlights the confusion. This leads to the suspicion
> >that perhaps Dell is exploiting a loophole,
> 
> They are offering a 12 month warranty with three months guaranteed
> service and support level.  What "loophole" do you think they are
> they exploiting?


Are they? Then let me quote from OP:

"I was told that if I chose the 90 day Collect and Return (CAR) cover then it
 is only guaranteed for 90 days."

So where is this 12 month warranty then?

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 21:38:10 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:



>So where is this 12 month warranty then?


In their Terms and Conditions.  

-- 
Peter Parry.   
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

Peter Parry wrote:

> 
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 21:38:10 GMT, Johannes
>  wrote:
> 
> >So where is this 12 month warranty then?
> 
> In their Terms and Conditions.



I lifted this from Dell's uk site:

"Warranty 
 Unless otherwise stated, Dell guarantees to you that Dell-branded
 Products will be free from defects for 12 months from delivery and
 spare parts for 90 days from installation or delivery date, whichever
 is the earlier."

Hence at least for the spare parts, Dell only offers 90 days Warranty.
This is quite clear and obvious. 

So if you want to claim after 90 days, you will have to take Dell to
court. This is obviously not very convenient for the ordinary consumer,
and much less effective than a Warranty. Taking someone to court cost
time and money and involves considerable uncertainty. You would then
have to summon independent engineers statements etc.







> 
> --
> Peter Parry.
> http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Johannes"  wrote in message 
news:430F5836.88D39E5E@spam-gets-snuffed-sizefitter.com...

>
>
> Colin Wilson wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, he still has the statutory one year warranty.
>>
>> There is no statutory 1 years warranty - this has been covered lots of
>> times in uk.legal - although if you pay by credit card, I think you`d be
>> well placed to argue that a computer should last longer than 3 months
>> and was therefore not of merchantable quality.
>
> If there is no statutory 1 year warranty, then it must be 90 days?
> Why should it be longer if Dell defines merchantable quality as 90 days?


Maybe because its not Dell who decide what is considered the reasonable 
life.