Folks,

I,ve just noticed that

www.thetrainline.com now

has an off-shoot at

http://www.internationaltrainline.com

selling things like Interrail and Eurodomino online,
and offering to quote you for European point-to-point journeys.

How long's that been there, and has anyone here tried it?

Charlie

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:43:24 GMT, Charlie Hulme wrote:

>I,ve just noticed that
>
>www.thetrainline.com now
>
>has an off-shoot at
>
>http://www.internationaltrainline.com
>
>selling things like Interrail and Eurodomino online,
>and offering to quote you for European point-to-point journeys.
>
>How long's that been there, and has anyone here tried it?


It's the first time I see it. Interesting. Let's compare fares:

Benelux Pass: GBP 194/130/94
Belgian/Luxembourg Railways sell these for EUR 189/126/95.
No comment.

Holland Rail Pass is a bit expensive in comparison with NL-Euro Domino -
they might as well do away with them, there's no advantage AFAIK.

Trenitalia Pass prices seems to be more in line with what you pay in
Italy. Likewise for Scanrail.

Seat reservations are GBP 8. These are mostly EUR 3 on the continent.
And on top of that they charge extra fees for reservations and delivery.

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt+@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Attention: new e-mail and web address because my provider found it
necessary to change its name.

On 24 Aug 2005 22:24:12 GMT, rvdborgt+@evonet.be (Rian van der Borgt)
wrote:


>Seat reservations are GBP 8. These are mostly EUR 3 on the continent.


*British* seat reservations also GBP8.  These are normally free of
charge!

More of a rip-off than RailEurope, it would seem.  I think I'll stick
with DB (via HAFAS, probably) if I need any of that kind of stuff...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Neil Williams"  a crit dans le message de
news:430cf5b6.565713@news.tesco.net...

> On 24 Aug 2005 22:24:12 GMT, rvdborgt+@evonet.be (Rian van der Borgt)
> wrote:
>
> >Seat reservations are GBP 8. These are mostly EUR 3 on the continent.
>
> *British* seat reservations also GBP8.  These are normally free of
> charge!
>
> More of a rip-off than RailEurope, it would seem.  I think I'll stick
> with DB (via HAFAS, probably) if I need any of that kind of stuff...
>

Considering that there is clearly a small but not negligible un-met demand
for accurate information about international rail travel, it's a shame that
such an abysmal offer is put forward. You only have to look at the 'maps'
which are less informative than those in the average primary school atlas
(they fail even to recognise that many towns have more than one main
station, never mind the novel 'Straight' of Gibraltar) to realise that this
cannot possibly be taken seriously.

Can somebody remind us who is responsible for it?

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels)

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 22:33:07 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

>On 24 Aug 2005 22:24:12 GMT, rvdborgt+@evonet.be (Rian van der Borgt)
>wrote:
>
>>Seat reservations are GBP 8. These are mostly EUR 3 on the continent.
>
>*British* seat reservations also GBP8.  These are normally free of
>charge!
>
>More of a rip-off than RailEurope, it would seem.  I think I'll stick
>with DB (via HAFAS, probably) if I need any of that kind of stuff...


They even promise:
"We are confident that our prices are the lowest available online!
Should you see the same rail pass or ticket for sale on the Internet at
a lower price, we will endeavor to match that price! For any questions
or for more information on our price promise, please contact us at 0870
751 5000."

<http://www.internationaltrainline.com/tickets/price-promise.asp?AFF=TLN>

Does anyone know cheaper offers online?

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt+@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Attention: new e-mail and web address because my provider found it
necessary to change its name.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:46:17 +0200, Alan \(in Brussels\) wrote:

>"Neil Williams"  a crit dans le message de
>>On 24 Aug 2005 22:24:12 GMT, rvdborgt+@evonet.be (Rian van der Borgt)
>>wrote:
>>>Seat reservations are GBP 8. These are mostly EUR 3 on the continent.
>>
>>*British* seat reservations also GBP8.  These are normally free of
>>charge!
>>
>>More of a rip-off than RailEurope, it would seem.  I think I'll stick
>>with DB (via HAFAS, probably) if I need any of that kind of stuff...
>
>Considering that there is clearly a small but not negligible un-met demand
>for accurate information about international rail travel, it's a shame that
>such an abysmal offer is put forward. You only have to look at the 'maps'
>which are less informative than those in the average primary school atlas
>(they fail even to recognise that many towns have more than one main
>station, never mind the novel 'Straight' of Gibraltar) to realise that this
>cannot possibly be taken seriously.


Their artistic impression of Zeeland (NL, south-west) is also...
interesting. On the Belgian map, they show the Oostende - Ramsgate
ferry. When did that one cease to exist? The existing Hoek van Holland -
Harwich ferry is missing. On the France map, there's a connection from
Paris to Dsseldorf, avoiding Brussels. Oh well.

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt+@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Attention: new e-mail and web address because my provider found it
necessary to change its name.

Rian van der Borgt wrote:


> On the Belgian map, they show the Oostende - Ramsgate
> ferry. When did that one cease to exist? 


It still runs but will not accept railway passengers!

Charlie

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:26:31 GMT, Charlie Hulme wrote:

>Rian van der Borgt wrote:
>>On the Belgian map, they show the Oostende - Ramsgate
>>ferry. When did that one cease to exist? 
>
>It still runs but will not accept railway passengers!


Doesn't surprise me. Seems to be trend nowadays.

But from the rail passenger's point of view, it doesn't exist anymore.

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt+@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Attention: new e-mail and web address because my provider found it
necessary to change its name.

Alan (in Brussels) wrote:


> Can somebody remind us who is responsible for it?


International Rail based in Ropley in Hampshire. According to the site they
once traded as Holland Rail, set up initially by NS. Presumably they are
now a fully fledged independant agent using different suppliers for the
various products they sell.

Like other agents they can only survive on fees and markups etc. as often
basic commission levels are too low for the costs of providing the service.
However it seems this lot do charge over and above many of their
competitors. No doubt the Trainline get a cut of the commission as they
introduce bookings through their site to International Rail.  

-- 
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Rian van der Borgt wrote:


> "We are confident that our prices are the lowest available online!
> Should you see the same rail pass or ticket for sale on the Internet at
> a lower price, we will endeavor to match that price! For any questions
> or for more information on our price promise, please contact us at 0870
> 751 5000."


Sounds highly suspicious IMO. Using the phrase "we will endeavor" is no
guarantee they will ever refund the difference like many other companies in
business promise to do. The fact that details of this are even disclosed
publicly (i.e. via T&C on their website) again makes it very dubious.
 

> Does anyone know cheaper offers online?


No doubt the passes would be cheaper through agents in other countries.
However I doubt their "price promise" will cover that.

-- 
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Neil Williams wrote:


>>Seat reservations are GBP 8. These are mostly EUR 3 on the continent.
> 
> *British* seat reservations also GBP8.  These are normally free of
> charge!


I suspect therefore they are using a Continental based system to book and
issue domestic UK rail tickets (with appropriate mark ups). I somehow doubt
ATOC would allow agents using their own agents to override prices.


> I think I'll stick with DB (via HAFAS, probably) if I need any of that
> kind of stuff...


Fine for Germany and *some* international routes with a DB leg and
calculated via the basic kilometric fares structure. However HAFAS seems to
have a major objection to giving you a price for a basic point to point
journey even over it's own tracks, for example it won't price up Thalys
journeys between Brussels and Kln. OK, it does allow you to book
"blindfolded" without knowing the price and then to continue to complete a
booking "on request". I'm not so convinced that's a good way to trade
on-line via a major selling outlet of one of Europe's railways.

-- 
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:26:42 +0100, Phil Richards wrote:

>Neil Williams wrote:
>>I think I'll stick with DB (via HAFAS, probably) if I need any of that
>>kind of stuff...
>
>Fine for Germany and *some* international routes with a DB leg and
>calculated via the basic kilometric fares structure. However HAFAS seems to
>have a major objection to giving you a price for a basic point to point
>journey even over it's own tracks, for example it won't price up Thalys
>journeys between Brussels and Kln. OK, it does allow you to book
>"blindfolded" without knowing the price and then to continue to complete a
>booking "on request". I'm not so convinced that's a good way to trade
>on-line via a major selling outlet of one of Europe's railways.


In those cases, I use a DB travel agent who doesn't ask a fee, is very
knowledgeable and delivers good service. Tickets arrive 2-3 days later.

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt+@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Attention: new e-mail and web address because my provider found it
necessary to change its name.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:26:42 +0100, Phil Richards
 wrote:


>Fine for Germany and *some* international routes with a DB leg and
>calculated via the basic kilometric fares structure. However HAFAS seems to
>have a major objection to giving you a price for a basic point to point
>journey even over it's own tracks, for example it won't price up Thalys
>journeys between Brussels and Kln. OK, it does allow you to book
>"blindfolded" without knowing the price and then to continue to complete a
>booking "on request". I'm not so convinced that's a good way to trade
>on-line via a major selling outlet of one of Europe's railways.


Perhaps not, but I have done this (they get back to you by e-mail with

a price) and not had any issues with it.

You can sometimes get an idea of fares out of the SNCF one if you can
convince it to play (a challenge in itself).

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:11:30 GMT, Neil Williams wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:26:42 +0100, Phil Richards
> wrote:
>>calculated via the basic kilometric fares structure. However HAFAS seems to
>>have a major objection to giving you a price for a basic point to point
>>journey even over it's own tracks, for example it won't price up Thalys
>>journeys between Brussels and Kln. OK, it does allow you to book
>>"blindfolded" without knowing the price and then to continue to complete a
>>booking "on request". I'm not so convinced that's a good way to trade
>>on-line via a major selling outlet of one of Europe's railways.
>
>Perhaps not, but I have done this (they get back to you by e-mail with
>
>a price) and not had any issues with it.
>
>You can sometimes get an idea of fares out of the SNCF one if you can
>convince it to play (a challenge in itself).


To look up TCV fares, I usually use http://www.jizdenka.cz/IT.aspx

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt+@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Attention: new e-mail and web address because my provider found it
necessary to change its name.

Rian van der Borgt wrote:


>>Fine for Germany and *some* international routes with a DB leg and
>>calculated via the basic kilometric fares structure. However HAFAS seems to
>>have a major objection to giving you a price for a basic point to point
>>journey even over it's own tracks, for example it won't price up Thalys
>>journeys between Brussels and Kln. OK, it does allow you to book
>>"blindfolded" without knowing the price and then to continue to complete a
>>booking "on request". I'm not so convinced that's a good way to trade
>>on-line via a major selling outlet of one of Europe's railways.
> 
> In those cases, I use a DB travel agent who doesn't ask a fee, is very
> knowledgeable and delivers good service. Tickets arrive 2-3 days later.


Which is good in a way that travel agents are still an important part of
the distribution process, though if they don't need to (or are not allowed
to) charge fees I suspect they pay out high commission levels which is less
cost effective for DB when they ought to be selling direct to the public. 

The point I was trying to make is that it shouldn't be necessary to go to
your knowledgeable travel agent for something as straight forward as say a
Thalys booking which HAFAS can't deliver properly despite supposedly being
DB's flagship information and selling tool. Interestingly go to Thalys.com
try to book it'll point you to SNCF's booking mechanism to book the journey
even if it's entirely outside of France!

-- 
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:16:23 +0100, Phil Richards wrote:

>Rian van der Borgt wrote:
>>>Fine for Germany and *some* international routes with a DB leg and
>>>calculated via the basic kilometric fares structure. However HAFAS seems to
>>>have a major objection to giving you a price for a basic point to point
>>>journey even over it's own tracks, for example it won't price up Thalys
>>>journeys between Brussels and Kln. OK, it does allow you to book
>>>"blindfolded" without knowing the price and then to continue to complete a
>>>booking "on request". I'm not so convinced that's a good way to trade
>>>on-line via a major selling outlet of one of Europe's railways.
>> 
>>In those cases, I use a DB travel agent who doesn't ask a fee, is very
>>knowledgeable and delivers good service. Tickets arrive 2-3 days later.
>
>Which is good in a way that travel agents are still an important part of
>the distribution process, though if they don't need to (or are not allowed
>to) charge fees I suspect they pay out high commission levels which is less
>cost effective for DB when they ought to be selling direct to the public. 


DB is continuously lowering commssion fees for agents. DB agents who
don't ask a fee are becoming rare. The above mentioned agent asks a
modest 3 euro postage fee under a certain amount (80 or 100 euros I
believe).


>The point I was trying to make is that it shouldn't be necessary to go to
>your knowledgeable travel agent for something as straight forward as say a
>Thalys booking which HAFAS can't deliver properly despite supposedly being
>DB's flagship information and selling tool.


You are right there. If Hafas gave fares for all relations, I'd be using
it more often. At this moment, ordering a ticket for which Hafas doesn't
give a fare is more or less the same as ordering directly from a DB
agent, as they have to come back to you with an offer. And then I prefer
my agent, as he knows a lot or will look up the needed info (including
calling the DB agent helpdesk) to find out anything he doesn't know yet.


>Interestingly go to Thalys.com
>try to book it'll point you to SNCF's booking mechanism to book the journey
>even if it's entirely outside of France!


brr...

Regards,

          Rian

-- 
Rian van der Borgt, Leuven, Belgium.
e-mail: rvdborgt+@evonet.be  www: http://www.evonet.be/~rvdborgt/
Attention: new e-mail and web address because my provider found it
necessary to change its name.