Travelling back from Brighton yesterday to Portsmouth i noticed that the 
sleepers at some of the stations were Wood , but concrete between stations. 
Angmering is an example. Some looked pretty rotten so they have been there 
for some time

Any ideas why ?

I thought it was that because the trains stops at stations the loads were 
less on the rail and therefore wood sleepers would be sufficient

Regards

Mike

Mike Cook wrote:

> Travelling back from Brighton yesterday to Portsmouth i noticed that the
> sleepers at some of the stations were Wood , but concrete between stations.
> Angmering is an example. Some looked pretty rotten so they have been there
> for some time
>
> Any ideas why ?
>
> I thought it was that because the trains stops at stations the loads were
> less on the rail and therefore wood sleepers would be sufficient
>
> Regards
>
> Mike

I can think of no reason why wooden slepers would any particular
advantage in a station as such, and I've never noticed such use, though
there are certain places where wooden sleepers are often used, see
below, which often occur at stations; were the ones you saw the whole
length of the platforms, or just short sections of track?  I can think
of one station, Farringdon, where the track at the East end is modern
flat bottom on concrete, laid when the Snow Hill tunnel was re-opened
for Thamesink, ans that at the West end is flat bottom on slab, laid
some years previously, during the electrification, but the short length
through the station was not replaced, and is still the original
bullhead rail on timber; I don't know why, it looks more worn than much
of the track which has been replaced elsewhere.

Wooden sleepers are not much useed for new work today; most new ones
were concrete until a few years ago , when Railtrack started making
extensive use of steel ones.  All three materials have been in use for
many years.  One advantage of wooden ones is that they are lighter, I
think I remember reading somewhere that a concrete one weighs something
like one third of a tonne, and for tis reason they are often used where
the line passes over subways, culverts, drains etc., do the stations
you saw have subways?  Wood was also used for switch and crossing
bearers, though even these are sometimes concrete now.  Steel sleepers
are also lightweight, the steel is quite thin, maybe 10-15mm or so, and
as they are hollow they can be stacked, saving space in transport.  For
this reason they were often used for export; you could get more of them
in a shipload than with wood or concrete.

Wooden sleepers are easier to drill and screw into where equipment, AWS
and APC magnets, TPWS transponders, impedance bonds etc., has to be
fixed.  For the same reason they are often found on tight curves, whare
special chairs have to be attached to hold the check rail

Croydon Tramlink and the DLR both use one wooden sleeper, every three
or four on Tramlink, rather less frequent on DLR. where the track
passes platforms.  There is extra length at the platform end, which
comes up against the platform wall, presumably to stop the creeping
towards the platform.  For disability access reasons the vehicles on
these systems come very close to the platform edge, so it is important
that there is no movement of the track.  I think the DLR ones are
actually half-length ones, which go under just the near rail.

Old wooden sleepers have oher uses, as fencing material, in gardens, as
firewood etc., therefore have some value.  Scrap steel ones likewise,
since they can be melted down and recycled.  Concrete ones have no real
use or value at the end of their life.

"Stephen Furley"  wrote in message
news:1124867195.130350.180590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> Old wooden sleepers have oher uses, as fencing material, in gardens, as
> firewood etc., therefore have some value.


ICBW but I seem to recall, from some of the gardening programmes, that used
wooden sleepers can no longer be traded. Presumably this is something to do
with the banning of the sale of creosote from 1st January 2004 and of the
use residual stocks from 1st January 2005. Only brand new, untreated,
sleepers can now be sold for garden use.

Stephen Furley  wrote:

> Old wooden sleepers have oher uses, as fencing material, in gardens, as
> firewood etc., therefore have some value.  Scrap steel ones likewise,
> since they can be melted down and recycled.  Concrete ones have no real
> use or value at the end of their life.


To a limited extent they can be used for the same garden purposes as wooden,
just are rather difficult to handle.  Around here the farmer uses rows of
concrete sleepers on end as fencing.  They must have got them cheap, since
putting in dozens of sleepers can't have been an easy job.

Theo

On 24 Aug 2005 00:06:35 -0700, "Stephen Furley"
 wrote:

>
>Old wooden sleepers have oher uses, as fencing material, in gardens, as
>firewood etc., therefore have some value.  Scrap steel ones likewise,
>since they can be melted down and recycled.  Concrete ones have no real
>use or value at the end of their life.
>

I believe old wooden sleepers can no longer be sold legally since the
banning of creosote. The same applies to old telegraph poles.

Best regards, Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting     http://paulsherwin.co.uk

> I believe old wooden sleepers can no longer be sold legally since the
> banning of creosote. The same applies to old telegraph poles.


And where do heritage railways get their sleepers from?

In message <xTXOe.336$n37.170@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>, Jack Taylor 
 writes

>
>"Stephen Furley"  wrote in message
>news:1124867195.130350.180590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Old wooden sleepers have oher uses, as fencing material, in gardens, as
>> firewood etc., therefore have some value.
>
>ICBW but I seem to recall, from some of the gardening programmes, that used
>wooden sleepers can no longer be traded. Presumably this is something to do
>with the banning of the sale of creosote from 1st January 2004 and of the
>use residual stocks from 1st January 2005. Only brand new, untreated,
>sleepers can now be sold for garden use.
>
>

Creosotes been banned?
Help ma boab, suppose I better be careful with what stock I have left 
and find a substitute.
Another element of the past about to disappear.
<Sigh>
-- 
Regards,

James Christie

"Luck is my middle name," he said, indistinctly.
"Mind you, my first name is Bad."

Mike Cook wrote:

> I thought it was that because the trains stops at stations the loads were 
> less on the rail and therefore wood sleepers would be sufficient


Here on the Sudbury line they have relaid 3 miles of track this summer, 
and have used Steel sleepers between the stations, and at Chappel used 
Concrete sleepers.

When they relaid the curve at Marks Tey in 2002, they didn't put the 
check rail back and used Concrete sleepers this time, replacing the 
wooden as previously. The wooden sleepers here used to get into a right 
state as the train often can be here up to 20 minutes at times, dropping 
all kinds of sludge onto the track bed and it seems to keep cleaner now.

1501 wrote:

> > I believe old wooden sleepers can no longer be sold legally since the
> > banning of creosote. The same applies to old telegraph poles.
>
> And where do heritage railways get their sleepers from?


Is 'sold' the key word?  Can they be donated or do they need to be
disposed of at an approved stie?

pete

"1501"  wrote in message
news:1124881073.198930.243090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> > I believe old wooden sleepers can no longer be sold legally since the
> > banning of creosote. The same applies to old telegraph poles.
>
> And where do heritage railways get their sleepers from?


ITYF that concrete and steel sleepers are now making quite widespread
appearances on preserved lines.

"James Christie"  wrote in message
news:b9QIT4DjBFDDFwec@christie.demon.co.uk...

> Creosotes been banned?


It has, unfortunately. These Dulux (etc) paint/emulsion-based products are
rubbish in comparison, for treating fences. One encounter with birds or cats
claws and the stuff drops off. I'm going to have to do my fences again -
it's only twelve months since I last did them! There is a mock-creosote
called 'Creocote' about now, I'm not sure how good that is but I might give
it a try.


> Help ma boab, suppose I better be careful with what stock I have left
> and find a substitute.


I'm sure that the creosote-police are not going to raid you but you may need
to be careful as to how you dispose of your remaining stocks.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:48:03 +0100, James Christie
 wrote:



>Creosotes been banned?


Regrettably, yes.


>Help ma boab, suppose I better be careful with what stock I have left 
>and find a substitute.


Substitutes available but IME not very good - smell the same though!


>Another element of the past about to disappear.
><Sigh>




Guy Gorton

Jack Taylor wrote:


> I'm going to have to do my fences again -


(Used) Engine Oil - its much better, and lasts years.

Probably illegal to use in such a way though with all the P.C. brigade 
that are around now.

"1501"  wrote in message
news:1124881073.198930.243090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> > I believe old wooden sleepers can no longer be sold legally since the
> > banning of creosote. The same applies to old telegraph poles.
>
> And where do heritage railways get their sleepers from?


See Q3. at the following link:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/creosote.htm

Regards

Shawn

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:26:09 +0100, Darren 
wrote:

>Jack Taylor wrote:
>
>> I'm going to have to do my fences again -
>
>(Used) Engine Oil - its much better, and lasts years.
>
>Probably illegal to use in such a way though with all the P.C. brigade 
>that are around now.


I believe it's perfectly legal to use old engine oil in this way,
despite it being *much* more carcingenic than creosote!

Best regards, Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting     http://paulsherwin.co.uk

Paul Sherwin wrote:

> I believe it's perfectly legal to use old engine oil in this way,
> despite it being *much* more carcingenic than creosote!


Well looking out of my window now I can see 3 fences:

1 Coated in funny green stuff by the guy next door a couple of years 
ago, faded in the middle sections.

1 coated in creosote by the other neighbour, about 4 years ago its all gone

1 coated in old Engine Oil, still a dark brown colour even though this 
was applied about a year before the green stuff.

The fence stunk for a week or so after the oil was applied, but fine 
now, no worse than the horrible green stuff used by the guy next door.

James Christie wrote:


> Creosotes been banned?
> Help ma boab, suppose I better be careful with what stock I have left
> and find a substitute.
> Another element of the past about to disappear.
> <Sigh>


It was banned in 2003, and you were supposed to dispose of any creosote
by the end of June 2004.

It seems that the use of sleepers in gardens is permitted for certain
applications:

http://www.railwaysleeper.com/railway%20sleeper%20treatments.htm

The message 
from James Christie  contains these words:


> suppose I better be careful with what stock I have left 

Shhhhh!

> and find a substitute.


The substiute is a very poor product, and doesn't really "take" on
previously creosoted timber.  I'm thinking about making a new front gate
because the present one has been creosoted from new (25 years ago).


> Another element of the past about to disappear.
> <Sigh>


It's another smell from the past - everybody who walked past the house
commented on the "pleasant smell" as they passed the gate after I
re-coated it just before Easter.

-- 
Dave,                                     
Frodsham

"Darren"  wrote in message
news:430c675f$0$22933$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...

>
> (Used) Engine Oil - its much better, and lasts years.


Unfortunately I've used up all the remaining locomotive engine oil that I
had. The push bike doesn't produce enough to keep me going!  ;-)

"Chippy"  wrote in message
news:1124889664.207275.68750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> It was banned in 2003, and you were supposed to dispose of any creosote
> by the end of June 2004.


Oops! I was told it was the end of the year. Good job no-one saw me
creosoting (or smelt) my front fences last October!

wrote in message
news:1124892670.513984.61300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>
> On the KESR in the 70s and 80s a lot of the sleepers were steel but
> they were very old and I think have since been replaced.  I believe
> they now use concrete wherever possible; except in stations where
> wooden sleepers are best suited to the heritage atmosphere.
Concrete
> ones require mechanical handling but last much longer and, once
laid,
> the track is easier to maintain.
>

IMO wooden sleepers provide a quiter ride than concrete.   I don't get
out much but on a journey between Reading and Basingstoke a wooden
section had been relaid with concrete and the noise in the carriage
was horrendous.   Perhaps they hadn't settled down fully.

Roger

Guy Gorton (drossguy.gorton@stoppervirgin.net) said:

> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:48:03 +0100, James Christie
>  wrote:
>
>
> > Creosotes been banned?
>
> Regrettably, yes.
>


Just looked in the cupboard and found an old bottle of Coal Tar anti 
dandruff shampoo - is this affected too?

-- 
Andrew

In message <4G%Oe.426$n37.7@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>, Jack Taylor 
 writes

>
>"Chippy"  wrote in message
>news:1124889664.207275.68750@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> It was banned in 2003, and you were supposed to dispose of any creosote
>> by the end of June 2004.
>
>Oops! I was told it was the end of the year. Good job no-one saw me
>creosoting (or smelt) my front fences last October!
>
>

I can't really see anyone giving a monkeys. It seems that very few 
people know about the ban (out here in Farming country), and we all have 
large stocks left of the stuff.
So we'll merrily carry on painting till it runs out.
-- 
Regards,

James Christie

"Luck is my middle name," he said, indistinctly.
"Mind you, my first name is Bad."

"Jack Taylor"  wrote in message
news:xTXOe.336$n37.170@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...

>
> "Stephen Furley"  wrote in message
> news:1124867195.130350.180590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Old wooden sleepers have oher uses, as fencing material, in gardens, as
> > firewood etc., therefore have some value.
>
> ICBW but I seem to recall, from some of the gardening programmes, that
used
> wooden sleepers can no longer be traded.


There was a rapid U-turn in the out-right ban on the sale of old wooden
railway sleepers (possibly when the government realized that this would
affect their own coffers). Wooden sleepers can still be traded, so long as
they are used within certain guidlines (ultimately, kept away from kids, and
used generally where no one is going to directly touch them often).


-- 
Ronnie
--
Have a great day...
....Have a Great Central day.
www.greatcentralrailway.com

Andrew Bell  wrote:

> Just looked in the cupboard and found an old bottle of Coal Tar anti 
> dandruff shampoo - is this affected too?


The Coal Tar soap they sell nowadays is only 'Coal Tar Flavoured', 'Coal Tar
Style' or something like that...

Theo

"Theo Markettos" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:x-z*FBZWq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

> Andrew Bell  wrote:
> > Just looked in the cupboard and found an old bottle of Coal Tar
anti
> > dandruff shampoo - is this affected too?
>
> The Coal Tar soap they sell nowadays is only 'Coal Tar Flavoured',
'Coal Tar
> Style' or something like that...


That's right, but there is one product that still contains the real
thing, distilled coal tar, its a hair shampoo called Capasal, made by
Dermal threaputic.   It is quite expensive at around 9 pounds a
bottle.   This was recommended to a relative by the local GP for a
flaky scalp condition.   Works too (testimonial).

Roger