Should really have posted this along with the GNER sample fares, but I
forgot.

Here's the London - Leicester fares:

MML Advance C:  6.00
MML Advance D:  7.50
MML Advance E:  8.50
MML Advance F: 10.00
MML Advance G: 12.00
MML Advance H: 15.00
MML Advance I: 18.00

MML First Advance A: 10.00
MML First Advance B: 13.00
MML First Advance C: 16.00
MML First Advance D: 20.00
MML First Advance E: 24.00

And for London - Sheffield:

MML Advance C:  6.00
MML Advance D:  7.50
MML Advance E: 10.00
MML Advance F: 12.50
MML Advance G: 15.00
MML Advance H: 18.00
MML Advance I: 22.00

MML First Advance A: 10.00
MML First Advance B: 15.00
MML First Advance C: 20.00
MML First Advance D: 25.00
MML First Advance E: 30.00

HTH,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message , at 06:37:21 on Tue, 23 Aug 
> 2005, Neil Williams  remarked:
> 
>> I note that all of GNER's First Class fares are more expensive than
>> all of their Standard ones, while MML has an overlap.  This could mean
>> it's worth travelling First one way because it might be cheaper than
>> Standard on MML...
> 
> More than that, if all the GNER standard fares are sold out, it still 
> might be cheaper to get a GNER AP First rather than a Standard Saver 
> (although I've not specifically checked the fares).
> 
> Under the existing regime, I have often found that an MML AP First Class 
> return was cheaper than any available alternative standard fares 
> (assuming I was able to specify the trains I wanted, of course).


I don't know if it's always been the case with certain MML AP tickets, 
but the system, if the timing's right, is offering me tickets into/out 
of KX where the only MML bit is Leeds-Doncaster.

E.g. 0640 Leeds-Doncaster (MML) changing onto the 0723 GNER to KX
1858 KX-Doncaster (HT) changing onto the 2115 MML to Leeds.

When it says (MML Advance H) is "available of MML and connecting TOC 
services" you kind of expect MML to be the major TOC in the journey!

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message , at 08:56:21 on Tue, 23 Aug 
> 2005, Mark Morton  remarked:
> 
>>>> Eg, on Monday 3 October you can travel out on the 0726 MML service 
>>>> from Leeds
>>>
>>>  It's a bit odd that you can get an advance ticket on a train way 
>>> earlier  than a saver would be valid.
>>
>> Savers are valid on that train.  MML's earliest arrival time into 
>> London on a Saver is 1040 (GNER's is 1115) and this service gets in at 
>> 1045.
> 
> OK, fair enough. I was extrapolating from the first obvious useful saver 
> train from Nottingham being the 9.30 (arr 11.15). And Sheffield not 
> being two hours further north. It seems the Leeds/Derby route gets a 
> better deal here.
> 
> Sounds like there might be an opportunity here! A Saver from Nottingham 
> to Leicester is valid all day, and presumably that Leeds train stops at 
> Leicester.


Yes, but it doesn't go via Nottingham.

In message , at 20:21:15 on Tue, 23 Aug 
2005, Mark Morton  remarked:

>>  Sounds like there might be an opportunity here! A Saver from 
>>Nottingham  to Leicester is valid all day, and presumably that Leeds 
>>train stops at  Leicester.
>
>Yes, but it doesn't go via Nottingham.


No, but I can get *any* train [1] from Nottingham to Leicester on a 
saver, then pick up the Leeds service there, getting to London half an 
hour earlier than on a direct train.

What's not so clear is whether or not I need two tickets, as savers are 
banned on the 08.30 for *journeys* to St Pancras, but my journey on that 
train is only to Leicester. (And 100% only to Leicester if I buy two 
tickets.)

Once again the "What is a journey" spectre haunts us....

[1] For example the 08.30 HST.
-- 
Roland Perry

In message , at 20:19:21 on Tue, 23 Aug 
2005, Mark Morton  remarked:

>I don't know if it's always been the case with certain MML AP tickets, 
>but the system, if the timing's right, is offering me tickets into/out 
>of KX where the only MML bit is Leeds-Doncaster.


I've never had a routing that would offer a combination like that. The 
MML website offers tickets on other TOCs, of course, and I've at least 
once bought a Nottingham-Grantham-KX cheaper than a direct 
Nottingham-StPancras. And this was later in the day when the direct 
trains are always half empty. Always struck me as odd that MML would 
prefer me to travel with someone else, when they had the capacity 
themselves!
-- 
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message , at 20:21:15 on Tue, 23 Aug 
> 2005, Mark Morton  remarked:
> 
>>>  Sounds like there might be an opportunity here! A Saver from 
>>> Nottingham  to Leicester is valid all day, and presumably that Leeds 
>>> train stops at  Leicester.
>>
>> Yes, but it doesn't go via Nottingham.
> 
> No, but I can get *any* train [1] from Nottingham to Leicester on a 
> saver, then pick up the Leeds service there, getting to London half an 
> hour earlier than on a direct train.
> 
> What's not so clear is whether or not I need two tickets, as savers are 
> banned on the 08.30 for *journeys* to St Pancras, but my journey on that 
> train is only to Leicester. (And 100% only to Leicester if I buy two 
> tickets.)
> 
> Once again the "What is a journey" spectre haunts us....
> 
> [1] For example the 08.30 HST.


I'd get two tickets.  The NFM says the first train you can use a saver 
on from Nottingham is the 0852 direct.  The extra it would cost will 
probably be worth it to stop the gripper on the 0830 pulling you up for 
having a saver to StP.

In message , at 22:06:51 on Tue, 23 Aug 
2005, Mark Morton  remarked:

>>  Once again the "What is a journey" spectre haunts us....
>>  [1] For example the 08.30 HST.
>
>I'd get two tickets.  The NFM says the first train you can use a saver 
>on from Nottingham is the 0852 direct.


That's "use a save on a journey to StPancras". I'm using a saver from 
Nottingham to Leicester.

In practice, it's not a problem for MML, because the trains are pretty 
empty on the Nottingham/Leicester part of the journey. But "rules is 
rules", I suppose.

The 08.52 isn't a "useful" train, anyway. It's a Meridian (noisy, 
cramped, stops at most stations, waits at Leicester 12 minutes [I 
thought they were supposed to have stopped doing that!!]). A complete 
pain to travel on. The 09.30 HST gets in only 11 minutes later.


>The extra it would cost will probably be worth it to stop the gripper 
>on the 0830 pulling you up for having a saver to StP.


If he's not entitled to, it wouldn't worry me. The problem is finding an 
authoritative definition of whether it's allowed or not on the 
Nottingham/Leicester leg.

ps. Last time I looked up "split" tickets, most were cheaper than a 
through ticket. Can't remember if that's true of a split at Leicester.
-- 
Roland Perry

Mark Morton wrote:

> Barry Salter wrote:
> 
>> Should really have posted this along with the GNER sample fares, but I
>> forgot.
> 
> 
> Of course that means that, from Leeds and Wakefield to London, you can 
> mix and match GNER and MML fares.
> 
> Eg, on Monday 3 October you can travel out on the 0726 MML service from 
> Leeds and come back on the 2330 GNER, if you wanted a very long day in 
> the capital, and do it for 15.50.


Also possible for Sheffield.

Just looking up a peak time journey for late September from Sheffield to 
London. You could go out on an early train from Sheffield to St. Pancras 
for 10ukp, but there's no cheap peak time return journey on MML so you 
can return on the 17:33 Kings Cross - Leeds (changing at Donny) for 
16.50ukp.

Very good, flexible system (More so than VV). GNER's T&Cs are more 
restrictive than MML's though and GNER's level 1 and 2 fares have to be 
booked 7 days in advance.

Philip.

Unlike Virgin Value, there are no Railcard discounts!

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 02:07:55 +0100, Mark Morton
 wrote:


>Of course that means that, from Leeds and Wakefield to London, you can 
>mix and match GNER and MML fares.
>
>Eg, on Monday 3 October you can travel out on the 0726 MML service from 
>Leeds and come back on the 2330 GNER, if you wanted a very long day in 
>the capital, and do it for 15.50.


Indeed.  Another reason why not penalising single fares is a good
idea.

I note that all of GNER's First Class fares are more expensive than
all of their Standard ones, while MML has an overlap.  This could mean
it's worth travelling First one way because it might be cheaper than
Standard on MML...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , at 05:12:57 on Tue, 23 
Aug 2005, Philip Hardy  remarked:


>You could go out on an early train from Sheffield to St. Pancras for 
>10ukp, but there's no cheap peak time return journey on MML


Is that because it's sold out already, or are no such fares available?

I have twice this month been able to buy existing AP tickets for use in 
the evening peak period from StP.
-- 
Roland Perry

In message , at 02:07:55 on Tue, 23 Aug 
2005, Mark Morton  remarked:

>Eg, on Monday 3 October you can travel out on the 0726 MML service from 
>Leeds


It's a bit odd that you can get an advance ticket on a train way earlier 
than a saver would be valid.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Roland Perry wrote:


> It's a bit odd that you can get an advance ticket on a train way earlier
> than a saver would be valid.


I've made trips to Leeds with GNERs current AP tickets and travelled out
and back in the peak, cost 36 quid return (from Chelmsford).
-- 
 Chris Johns

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:13:57 +0100, Barry Salter
 wrote:


>Should really have posted this along with the GNER sample fares, but I
>forgot.


I wonder if I could buy ~300 of these tickets in advance and make a
massive saving on my season...Oh how I wish.

In message , at 08:56:21 on Tue, 23 Aug 
2005, Mark Morton  remarked:

>>> Eg, on Monday 3 October you can travel out on the 0726 MML service 
>>>from Leeds
>>  It's a bit odd that you can get an advance ticket on a train way 
>>earlier  than a saver would be valid.
>
>Savers are valid on that train.  MML's earliest arrival time into 
>London on a Saver is 1040 (GNER's is 1115) and this service gets in at 
>1045.


OK, fair enough. I was extrapolating from the first obvious useful saver 
train from Nottingham being the 9.30 (arr 11.15). And Sheffield not 
being two hours further north. It seems the Leeds/Derby route gets a 
better deal here.

Sounds like there might be an opportunity here! A Saver from Nottingham 
to Leicester is valid all day, and presumably that Leeds train stops at 
Leicester.
-- 
Roland Perry

Barry Salter wrote:

> Should really have posted this along with the GNER sample fares, but I
> forgot.


Of course that means that, from Leeds and Wakefield to London, you can 
mix and match GNER and MML fares.

Eg, on Monday 3 October you can travel out on the 0726 MML service from 
Leeds and come back on the 2330 GNER, if you wanted a very long day in 
the capital, and do it for 15.50.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 05:12:57 +0100, Philip Hardy
 wrote:


>Very good, flexible system (More so than VV). GNER's T&Cs are more 
>restrictive than MML's though and GNER's level 1 and 2 fares have to be 
>booked 7 days in advance.


I think the "7 days ahead" for the GNER Level 1 & 2 fares arises because
they're using the same ticket types as the current Standard Off Peak
tickets, though I stand for correction. Expect this to be remedied once
the new fares come into effect...

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:13:57 +0100, Barry Salter
 wrote:


>MML Advance C:  6.00

[etc]

Hmm.  Why no A and B?  And why do MML have to go for letters while
GNER go for numbers?  Can't the railway co-ordinate *anything* these
days?

It is interesting that MML have gone much more for the EasyJet model
with that number of graded fares, too.

Otherwise, this is all very much a good thing.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message , at 02:07:55 on Tue, 23 Aug 
> 2005, Mark Morton  remarked:
> 
>> Eg, on Monday 3 October you can travel out on the 0726 MML service 
>> from Leeds
> 
> It's a bit odd that you can get an advance ticket on a train way earlier 
> than a saver would be valid.


Savers are valid on that train.  MML's earliest arrival time into London 
on a Saver is 1040 (GNER's is 1115) and this service gets in at 1045.

In message , at 06:37:21 on Tue, 23 Aug 
2005, Neil Williams  remarked:

>I note that all of GNER's First Class fares are more expensive than
>all of their Standard ones, while MML has an overlap.  This could mean
>it's worth travelling First one way because it might be cheaper than
>Standard on MML...


More than that, if all the GNER standard fares are sold out, it still 
might be cheaper to get a GNER AP First rather than a Standard Saver 
(although I've not specifically checked the fares).

Under the existing regime, I have often found that an MML AP First Class 
return was cheaper than any available alternative standard fares 
(assuming I was able to specify the trains I wanted, of course).
-- 
Roland Perry

In message , at 06:35:46 on Tue, 23 Aug 
2005, Neil Williams  remarked:

>>MML Advance C:  6.00
>[etc]
>
>Hmm.  Why no A and B?  And why do MML have to go for letters while
>GNER go for numbers?  Can't the railway co-ordinate *anything* these
>days?
>
>It is interesting that MML have gone much more for the EasyJet model
>with that number of graded fares, too.


MML have had things like ultracheap "Xmas shopper" tickets in the past. 
I imagine these might be in reserve for such tickets.
-- 
Roland Perry

On 23 Aug 2005 06:01:28 -0700, iw_wallace@yahoo.com wrote:


>Unlike Virgin Value, there are no Railcard discounts!


The leaflet MML have produced about it would disagree...Though QJump
doesn't seem to have the discounts...Hrmmm...

<quote> Our normal Railcard discounts will be available on all advance
purchase tickets. In addition, 50% child discounts (aged 5-15) will
still apply on all tickets. </quote>

The GNER ones, however, give *no* discounts at all.

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:10:39 +0100, Barry Salter
 wrote:


>The GNER ones, however, give *no* discounts at all.


They do on the level 4 ones, according to their website.  Nothing like
a bit of consistency... typical arrogant, spin-doctoring GNER changing
as little as they can.

Also, there is no reason why the ticket types and terms/conditions
(though not the actual fares obviously) should not have been
harmonised across the TOCs.  A tremendous, and scandalous, missed
opportunity.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.