Was on the on-time Bolton - Manchester Airport this evening which
leaves Bolton at 1728. It departed the station (on time) and then
slowed to a halt at the signal gantry immediately to the south of the
former goods yard (couldn't see the number). We sat there for a while
until a 150 (one of those crappy unrefurbished ones in RR livery) with
Buxton on the front passed us on the down line. I didn't even realise
it was possible to do that on that stretch of line. There was no
problem on on the up track so that didn't explain it and we arrived at
Oxford Road 5 minutes down. Does anyone know why the signallers might
have done this?

Cheeky wrote:

> 
> Was on the on-time Bolton - Manchester Airport this evening which
> leaves Bolton at 1728. It departed the station (on time) and then
> slowed to a halt at the signal gantry immediately to the south of the
> former goods yard (couldn't see the number). We sat there for a while
> until a 150 (one of those crappy unrefurbished ones in RR livery) with
> Buxton on the front passed us on the down line. I didn't even realise
> it was possible to do that on that stretch of line. There was no
> problem on on the up track so that didn't explain it and we arrived at
> Oxford Road 5 minutes down. Does anyone know why the signallers might
> have done this?


Only reason I can think of is that the Buxton was due off Bolton at 1713
and clearly running rather late. I imagine that the box wanted it as
close to its booked path as possible so as not to upset too many
commuters at Piccadilly.

They could alternatively have looped your train at Salford Crescent or
at Oxford Road, but perhaps they didn't want to risk blocking tracks
there.
-- 
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================
Do something amazing. Give blood.
<http://www.blood.co.uk/>

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:35:17 +0100, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:



>
>And the Buxton train arrived at Oxford Road 20 late and stood there for 
>another 5 awaiting a guard. And it was formed of just the two
>cars instead of the booked four. And there was a giant cuddly
>goldfish occupying a seat, which was then abandoned by its
>owner, along with two cases, on the platform at Piccadilly,
>while she wandered off somewhere. (what planet was she on?)
>


That'll be why we were stuck in P3 at Oxford Road rather than P4 and I
had to lug my bike over the bridge.

Looks like we all had a great evening commute yesterday!!

On 23 Aug 2005 04:42:27 -0700, "Pat Ricroft" 
wrote:


>Cheeky wrote:
>> We sat there for a while until a 150 with
>> Buxton on the front passed us on the down line. I didn't even realise
>> it was possible to do that on that stretch of line.
>
>Looking at the SA, I see that all the platform lines are
>bi-directional, and the down main line is bi-di as far as the trailing
>crossover that leads to the Up Passenger Loop. The Up line is
>unidirectional though.
>
>Thinking about this, I wonder when passenger trains ever use the loops.
>I can't remember seeing passenger trains in either of them. Perhaps
>they get used when a Virgin XC service is running late and needs to get
>past.


Once, in the three years I've been commuting to Wigan, we were
switched on to the down loop and ran along it at v. low speed. As
there was nothing dead on the main line I can only assume some bit if
equipment had broken or a possession hadn't been handed back on time
(it was a Monday morning).

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:46:01 +0000 (UTC), Joyce Whitchurch
 wrote:



>Only reason I can think of is that the Buxton was due off Bolton at 1713
>and clearly running rather late. I imagine that the box wanted it as
>close to its booked path as possible so as not to upset too many
>commuters at Piccadilly.
>
>They could alternatively have looped your train at Salford Crescent or
>at Oxford Road, but perhaps they didn't want to risk blocking tracks
>there.


Quite possibly. Maybe mine had a bit of slack to get through
Piccadilly and Slade Lane junction...

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 21:42:41 +0100, in article
, Cheeky 
wrote in uk.railway: 


>On 23 Aug 2005 04:42:27 -0700, "Pat Ricroft" 
>wrote:


[About the loops at Burnden, Bolton]


>>Thinking about this, I wonder when passenger trains ever use the loops.
>>I can't remember seeing passenger trains in either of them. Perhaps
>>they get used when a Virgin XC service is running late and needs to get
>>past.
>
>Once, in the three years I've been commuting to Wigan, we were
>switched on to the down loop and ran along it at v. low speed. As
>there was nothing dead on the main line I can only assume some bit if
>equipment had broken or a possession hadn't been handed back on time
>(it was a Monday morning).


Limit's 15mph onto, through and off both loops. Feels worse than it is.

Cheers,
Chris Pemberton, Pendleton, Salford, Lancs.
-- 
This post contains my personal opinion only. If I am in a position to
speak for somebody I'll say so.

On 23 Aug 2005 04:42:27 -0700, in article
, "Pat Ricroft"
 wrote in uk.railway: 


>Looking at the SA, I see that all the platform lines are
>bi-directional, and the down main line is bi-di as far as the trailing
>crossover that leads to the Up Passenger Loop. The Up line is
>unidirectional though.


That's right, when travelling in the down direction, you can't cross
over from the down side to the up side until the signal protecting
Bolton station, that's the signal after the loops, Bolton East Junction.
From there, the signaller can put you into any of the four platforms,
normally platform 1 for services heading to Bromley Cross, and platform
4 for trains heading to Lostock. If you get platform 3 instead of 4, it
tends to raise a few eyebrows.

From platform 3 in the down direction, you'll get either a route 1 or
route 4 indicator, route 1 takes you to Lostock, route 4 takes you to
Bromley Cross. Taking route 1 puts you through the middle road (called
the connecting line,) and back onto the down. Pure vanilla. Pretty easy.

In the up direction, if you go through platform 4 in the up direction,
you can't cross over to the up side until Burnden junction, where the
loops start. You will get either a route 1 or route 2 indicator. Route 1
puts you onto the Up Main, route 2 puts you into the UPL.


>Thinking about this, I wonder when passenger trains ever use the loops.
>I can't remember seeing passenger trains in either of them. Perhaps
>they get used when a Virgin XC service is running late and needs to get
>past.


I've been looped for Windermeres as well as Virgins when I've been on
late running down Blackpools :-(

Getting looped in the up direction seems to only happen when there's a
Virgin tail-lamping you, and even then only when the bobby seems to be
in a spiteful mood.

Cheers,
Chris Pemberton, Pendleton, Salford, Lancs.
-- 
This post contains my personal opinion only. If I am in a position to
speak for somebody I'll say so.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:46:01 +0000 (UTC), in article
, Joyce Whitchurch
 wrote in uk.railway: 


>Cheeky wrote:
>> 
>> Was on the on-time Bolton - Manchester Airport this evening which
>> leaves Bolton at 1728. It departed the station (on time) and then
>> slowed to a halt at the signal gantry immediately to the south of the
>> former goods yard (couldn't see the number). We sat there for a while
>> until a 150 (one of those crappy unrefurbished ones in RR livery) with
>> Buxton on the front passed us on the down line. I didn't even realise
>> it was possible to do that on that stretch of line. There was no
>> problem on on the up track so that didn't explain it and we arrived at
>> Oxford Road 5 minutes down. Does anyone know why the signallers might
>> have done this?
>
>Only reason I can think of is that the Buxton was due off Bolton at 1713
>and clearly running rather late. I imagine that the box wanted it as
>close to its booked path as possible so as not to upset too many
>commuters at Piccadilly.


Seems to be a relatively recent thing. Happened to me once not so long
ago, I think I was working a Southport to the Airport service come to
think of it, but I was the late runner. Got through Bolton, and then got
held at Burnden - something overtook us on the up, then we tail-lamped
it all the way through to Oxford Road where I got off in a huff.


>They could alternatively have looped your train at Salford Crescent or
>at Oxford Road, but perhaps they didn't want to risk blocking tracks
>there.


Can't overtake at the Crescent if both trains are booked to stop there.
You can't cross over to the down side off the Bolton line, and you can't
gain access to the Atherton line in the down direction from the up and
down platform. If the bobby wanted to shuffle the trains before Salford
he only has the option of either holding one at Lostock (all depends on
what's coming from Wigan, long TC block Crow's Nest to Lostock,) putting
one through the loop at Burnden, or doing what he did in this case. I
would have thought the loop would be the easiest option, Given the age
of Windsor Bridge panel, I would expect the down signals on the main
line through Burnden to have an automatic operation button as far as
Bolton East Jn (the signal before the station,) and on the up from the
signal where the original poster's train was held to wherever. The
signaller would have to cancel the automatic route at the end of the
loops, and then set the new route up, resetting the automatic button
after the train had passed, then resetting the automatic option on the
up line, whereas using the loops means that you only need to knock off
the automatic in one direction only. (Not to be confused with ARS as
found in IECC panels, or semi-automatic signals, I'm talking about the
"A" button.)
Cheers,
Chris Pemberton, Pendleton, Salford, Lancs.
-- 
This post contains my personal opinion only. If I am in a position to
speak for somebody I'll say so.

Joyce Whitchurch wrote:


> Cheeky wrote:
> 
>>Was on the on-time Bolton - Manchester Airport this evening which
>>leaves Bolton at 1728. It departed the station (on time) and then
>>slowed to a halt at the signal gantry immediately to the south of the
>>former goods yard (couldn't see the number). We sat there for a while
>>until a 150 (one of those crappy unrefurbished ones in RR livery) with
>>Buxton on the front passed us on the down line. I didn't even realise
>>it was possible to do that on that stretch of line. There was no
>>problem on on the up track so that didn't explain it and we arrived at
>>Oxford Road 5 minutes down. Does anyone know why the signallers might
>>have done this?
> 
> 
> Only reason I can think of is that the Buxton was due off Bolton at 1713
> and clearly running rather late. I imagine that the box wanted it as
> close to its booked path as possible so as not to upset too many
> commuters at Piccadilly.


And the Buxton train arrived at Oxford Road 20 late and stood there for 
another 5 awaiting a guard. And it was formed of just the two
cars instead of the booked four. And there was a giant cuddly
goldfish occupying a seat, which was then abandoned by its
owner, along with two cases, on the platform at Piccadilly,
while she wandered off somewhere. (what planet was she on?)

I know, I _was_ that passenger!

Charlie

Cheeky wrote:

> We sat there for a while until a 150 with
> Buxton on the front passed us on the down line. I didn't even realise
> it was possible to do that on that stretch of line.


Looking at the SA, I see that all the platform lines are
bi-directional, and the down main line is bi-di as far as the trailing
crossover that leads to the Up Passenger Loop. The Up line is
unidirectional though.

Thinking about this, I wonder when passenger trains ever use the loops.
I can't remember seeing passenger trains in either of them. Perhaps
they get used when a Virgin XC service is running late and needs to get
past.
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================