My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for 10.30
meetings that are a ten minute walk away.

Trainline.com offers routes via Birmingham or two changes via Nuneaton and
Stafford. Assuming I don't want to faff around with changes and the problems
that can entail, where's my nearest station that I can get a direct and
arrives round 10am service from ?

Thanks.

Grant  wrote:

> My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for 10.30
> meetings that are a ten minute walk away.
> 
> Trainline.com offers routes via Birmingham or two changes via Nuneaton and
> Stafford. Assuming I don't want to faff around with changes and the problems
> that can entail, where's my nearest station that I can get a direct and
> arrives round 10am service from ?



Depending on which side of Leicester you're on you might look at
Coventry or Burton-on-Trent.

pete
-- 
pete@fenelon.com "Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime"-G Gordon Liddy

Pete Fenelon wrote:

> Grant  wrote:
> > My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for 10.30
> > meetings that are a ten minute walk away.
> >
> > Trainline.com offers routes via Birmingham or two changes via Nuneaton and
> > Stafford. Assuming I don't want to faff around with changes and the problems
> > that can entail, where's my nearest station that I can get a direct and
> > arrives round 10am service from ?
>
>
> Depending on which side of Leicester you're on you might look at
> Coventry or Burton-on-Trent.


Is there a direct Manchester service from Burton-on-Trent?

Shame the MML RIO service no longer operates.


-- 
Regards

Mike

"Pete Fenelon"  wrote in message
news:d9kced.i1i.ln@fenelon.com...

> Grant  wrote:
> > My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for
10.30
> > meetings that are a ten minute walk away.
> >
> > Trainline.com offers routes via Birmingham or two changes via Nuneaton
and
> > Stafford. Assuming I don't want to faff around with changes and the
problems
> > that can entail, where's my nearest station that I can get a direct and
> > arrives round 10am service from ?
>
>
> Depending on which side of Leicester you're on you might look at
> Coventry or Burton-on-Trent.
>

0723 Coventry, 0734 Birmingham International, arrives MNanchester Piccadilly
0923.
0801 Burton-on-Trent, 0812 Tamworth, arrives Manchester Piccadilly 1023 (via
Birmingham)
0742 Nottingham arrives Manchester Piccadilly 0936.

0824 from Nuneaton gives a one change journey - change at Stafford for
arrivals at 1002 (tight connection - less than 5 minutes, so can't be relied
on) or 1023 (extra time for the connection), or change at Crewe for an
arrival at 1009 (though no fall-back if either of the trains is late).

Peter

Mike Roebuck  wrote:

>> Depending on which side of Leicester you're on you might look at
>> Coventry or Burton-on-Trent.
> 
> Is there a direct Manchester service from Burton-on-Trent?


Seemingly so, I chucked Manchester and Burton-on-Trent into National
Rail Enquiries and got a direct VXC journey - 0801 arr 1023, which sounds
horrendously slow (particularly as 0805 arr 1023 with two changes is
quicker - although that's MML to Burton, Central to Stoke, then VWC)


> Shame the MML RIO service no longer operates.


Indeed. Would also be nice for MML to extend a few more trains to Sheffield
or Leeds a little further North... more York services would be
appreciated! ;)

pete
-- 
pete@fenelon.com "Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime"-G Gordon Liddy

Grant wrote:

> My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for 10.30
> meetings that are a ten minute walk away.


Sorry, no direct trains from Leicester to Manchester, not since Midland
Mainline stopped running their Manchester trains out of St Pancras
(which for the benefit of new readers was a temporary service during
the worst of the WCML upgrade work).


> Trainline.com offers routes via Birmingham or two changes via Nuneaton and
> Stafford. Assuming I don't want to faff around with changes and the problems
> that can entail, where's my nearest station that I can get a direct and
> arrives round 10am service from ?


Only two options come to mind - Nottingham, which has an hourly service
for most of the day, and Derby, which has one direct train a day. From
Nottingham, you've got trains leaving at 0742 and 0842, arriving
Piccadilly at 0936 and 1036.


>From Derby you've got the 0751, which arrives in Piccadilly at 1023.

(This is a very slightly roundabout Voyager working, basically a
Birmingham to Manchester service that runs a commuter service to Brum
on its way in from Central Rivers depot.)

Derby to Manchester tickets are valid on this train under the "direct
train" rule, otherwise you're expected to go via Stoke or Sheffield.
Fortunately there's a balancing return working, at a time which might
suit you - 1624 from Piccadilly arriving Derby at 1856.

The Derby trains also call at Burton-on-Trent and Tamworth which may be
more use to you.

Another option, given that you're fairly obviously going to arrive at a
station by car, might be Alfreton - big car park, not too far off Jn 28
of the M1. Trains as for Nottingham (dep 0807 and 0906).
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

"Pete Fenelon"  wrote in message
news:d9kced.i1i.ln@fenelon.com...

>
> Depending on which side of Leicester you're on you might look at
> Coventry or Burton-on-Trent.


South-East of Leicester. Coventry station is about 45 minutes by car so
probably about the same 3 hours door-to-door as the 'faff' factor indirect
routes.

The 3-train route involves an 11 and 5 minute connection - sound
aggressively optimistic to me or am I likely to make both?

"Pete Fenelon"  wrote in message 
news:sglced.t86.ln@fenelon.com...

> Mike Roebuck  wrote:
>>> Depending on which side of Leicester you're on you might look at
>>> Coventry or Burton-on-Trent.
>>
>> Is there a direct Manchester service from Burton-on-Trent?
>
> Seemingly so, I chucked Manchester and Burton-on-Trent into National
> Rail Enquiries and got a direct VXC journey - 0801 arr 1023, which sounds
> horrendously slow (particularly as 0805 arr 1023 with two changes is
> quicker - although that's MML to Burton, Central to Stoke, then VWC)
>

I think that goes via Birmingham!

Sean

Pat Ricroft wrote:


> 
> Sorry, no direct trains from Leicester to Manchester, not since Midland
> Mainline stopped running their Manchester trains out of St Pancras
> (which for the benefit of new readers was a temporary service during
> the worst of the WCML upgrade work).


East Midlands to Manchester:

* Several millions of population at either end.

* Roads between the two not brilliant, a quoted road journey time of 1 
hour 45 minutes for the hundred odd miles from Leicester or 1 hour 18 
minutes for the 60 miles from Derby.

* Whether congestion further knocks this timing I don't know.

Obviously no market for a direct rail service there ...

Mark Annand wrote:


> East Midlands to Manchester:
>
> * Several millions of population at either end.
>
> * Roads between the two not brilliant, a quoted road journey time of 1
> hour 45 minutes for the hundred odd miles from Leicester


Its about 90 miles.


> or 1 hour 18
> minutes for the 60 miles from Derby.
>
> * Whether congestion further knocks this timing I don't know.
>
> Obviously no market for a direct rail service there ...


The Rio loadings didn't indicate a viable level of potential custom.

Mark Annand wrote:

> 
> East Midlands to Manchester:
> > * Several millions of population at either end.
> > * Roads between the two not brilliant, a quoted road journey time of 1
> hour 45 minutes for the hundred odd miles from Leicester or 1 hour 18
> minutes for the 60 miles from Derby.
> > * Whether congestion further knocks this timing I don't know.
> 
> Obviously no market for a direct rail service there ...


Did you ever travel on the Rio services north of Leicester? Average
loadings of fifty IME, apart from days when the WCML was completely
blockaded. And that was with an hourly service stopping only at
Stockport! A Turbot-rain would have been more appropriate than an HST -
but this is old ground, we've discussed it to death over the past couple
of years.
-- 
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================
Do something amazing. Give blood.
<http://www.blood.co.uk/>

Chippy wrote:

> Mark Annand wrote:
> 
> 
>>East Midlands to Manchester:
>>
>>* Several millions of population at either end.
>>
>>* Roads between the two not brilliant, a quoted road journey time of 1
>>hour 45 minutes for the hundred odd miles from Leicester
> 
> 
> Its about 90 miles.


I've tried three road journey planners, a horribly unscientific 
approach, but none of them go for a route under a hundred. They're 
pretty split by the request into what must be funny ideas. Multimap 
sends you up the M1 and returns 2 hours 7 minutes for Leicester to 
Manchester.  It would be interesting to know the route a real person 
would choose. Where's your 90 mile one?


> The Rio loadings didn't indicate a viable level of potential custom.


Though they weren't trying to serve the market. Weren't they more or 
less designed  *not* to serve the east midlands? And remember there was 
SRA involvement - the organisation that to justify closing the Maindee 
east curve to passenger services, did a passenger count on the through 
train using it ... over five off peak days in was it February, including 
a Sunday when the thing didn't run anyway :-)

Mark Annand wrote:

> Chippy wrote:

> > Its about 90 miles.
>
> I've tried three road journey planners, a horribly unscientific
> approach, but none of them go for a route under a hundred. They're
> pretty split by the request into what must be funny ideas. Multimap
> sends you up the M1 and returns 2 hours 7 minutes for Leicester to
> Manchester.  It would be interesting to know the route a real person
> would choose. Where's your 90 mile one?


You were right in saying that Derby is about 60.  Leicester to Derby is
30.  Go figure.


>
> > The Rio loadings didn't indicate a viable level of potential custom.
>
> Though they weren't trying to serve the market. Weren't they more or
> less designed  *not* to serve the east midlands? And remember there was
> SRA involvement - the organisation that to justify closing the Maindee
> east curve to passenger services, did a passenger count on the through
> train using it ... over five off peak days in was it February, including
> a Sunday when the thing didn't run anyway :-)


Yeah, right, it's all a big bad conspiracy.  The Rios served Leicester.
 They ran to Manchester.  They didn't carry many passengers.

Joyce Whitchurch wrote:


> Did you ever travel on the Rio services north of Leicester? Average
> loadings of fifty IME, apart from days when the WCML was completely
> blockaded. And that was with an hourly service stopping only at
> Stockport! A Turbot-rain would have been more appropriate than an HST -
> but this is old ground, we've discussed it to death over the past couple
> of years.


Though has anyone here been able to tackle the outcome of the 800,000 
study into reopening the direct line between the two: specifically, 
whether said study left the figures for travel between the population 
centres at each end out of the passenger predictions for the revived 
line, and whether it was reasonable to inflate the cost and 
environmental impact by requiring on safety grounds the existing disused 
trackbed to be widened to accommodate a 'New' double track railway.

Chippy wrote:

> Mark Annand wrote:
> 
>>Chippy wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Its about 90 miles.
>>
>>I've tried three road journey planners, a horribly unscientific
>>approach, but none of them go for a route under a hundred. They're
>>pretty split by the request into what must be funny ideas. Multimap
>>sends you up the M1 and returns 2 hours 7 minutes for Leicester to
>>Manchester.  It would be interesting to know the route a real person
>>would choose. Where's your 90 mile one?
> 
> 
> You were right in saying that Derby is about 60.  Leicester to Derby is
> 30.  Go figure.


The journey planners don't like the speed of the direct route then. 
You're saying driving Leicester-Derby-Manchester is a good route though.


> Yeah, right, it's all a big bad conspiracy.  The Rios served Leicester.
>  They ran to Manchester.  They didn't carry many passengers.


Round here, a train serves Bristol to Weymouth on Sundays. They don't 
carry many passengers any more, because the morning train sits at 
Westbury for 20 minutes or so - or simply runs late to Westbury in the 
first place. There's a single through return train that leaves Weymouth 
mid-afternoon, anything later involves a change. Bye bye passenger 
loadings.

Mark Annand wrote:


> Thanks for this. There's certainly an untidy selection of types of road 
> needed for the trip. Must be a fun journey in poor weather. :-(


   There is talk of trying to force lorries to use either M62/M1 or 
M6/A50 by means of local weight restrictions on other roads within this 
'box'. Certainly if you go walking on the old Woodhead trackbed then you 
will most likely see a string of lorries nicely spaced out with a train 
of cars stuck behind them, often crawling over certain sections of the 
route. The A623 has fewer lorries but if you get stuck behind a laden 
cement truck from the works then you can expect to trail along at around 
30 or less on the steep and windy bits.

   I must admit I am surprised we don't at least have a direct service 
to say Derby or Chesterfield, missing out Sheffield as this could save 
significant amounts of time even if a change is necessary for some 
onward destinations.

On 22 Aug 2005 14:55:55 -0700, "Chippy"  wrote:


>Mark Annand wrote:
>> Chippy wrote:
>
>> > Its about 90 miles.
>>
>> I've tried three road journey planners, a horribly unscientific
>> approach, but none of them go for a route under a hundred. They're
>> pretty split by the request into what must be funny ideas. Multimap
>> sends you up the M1 and returns 2 hours 7 minutes for Leicester to
>> Manchester.  It would be interesting to know the route a real person
>> would choose. Where's your 90 mile one?
>
>You were right in saying that Derby is about 60.  Leicester to Derby is
>30.  Go figure.


Try specifying via Buxton.

Departure   Leicester  
Destination   Manchester  
Via Buxton
Date 23/08/2005
Time: 03h07 including 00h08 on motorways
Distance: 87 mi including 8.5 mi on motorways
 
That's from http://www.viamichelin.co.uk
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

Stephen Hughes wrote:


>   I must admit I am surprised we don't at least have a direct service to 
> say Derby or Chesterfield, missing out Sheffield as this could save 
> significant amounts of time even if a change is necessary for some 
> onward destinations.


A newspaper report from the time the service was discontinued:

http://www.businessderbyshire.co.uk/news/04/sept/040910b.htm

"The service did not stop at Derby but provided a quick link to 
Manchester and the north west from Leicester.

There has been no direct Derby to Manchester link since 1968.

Midland Mainline recruited more than 200 additional staff - 47 drivers, 
26 train managers, 120 customer hosts and 20 station staff - for the route."

<snip>

"It had initially been hoped that the service would provide a direct 
link between Derby and Manchester, but timetable constraints meant the 
service never stopped at Derby."

<And finally>

"From tomorrow, passengers from Derby will have to go to Sheffield to 
get a link to Manchester."

Oops, just like they've had to do since 1968!

Terry Harper wrote:


> Try specifying via Buxton.
> 
> Departure   Leicester  
> Destination   Manchester  
> Via Buxton
> Date 23/08/2005
> Time: 03h07 including 00h08 on motorways
> Distance: 87 mi including 8.5 mi on motorways
>  
> That's from http://www.viamichelin.co.uk


Time: 03h07

:-) Ouch ...

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:00:04 +0100, Terry Harper
 wrote:


>Departure   Leicester  
>Destination   Manchester  
>Via Buxton
>Date 23/08/2005
>Time: 03h07 including 00h08 on motorways
>Distance: 87 mi including 8.5 mi on motorways


From experience, a most pleasant drive by most of the feasible
cross-Pennine routes including that one, but by no means a quick one.
Best enjoyed with time on your hands!

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Joyce Whitchurch wrote:


> Did you ever travel on the Rio services north of Leicester? Average
> loadings of fifty IME, apart from days when the WCML was completely
> blockaded. And that was with an hourly service stopping only at
> Stockport! A Turbot-rain would have been more appropriate than an HST -
> but this is old ground, we've discussed it to death over the past couple
> of years.


I've pdfs of the Derby Manchester rail study if you'd like copies to 
archive - links to them seem to have vanished from Derbyshire's page on 
the project (along with everything else on the page)

I was wrong about the 800,000 cost of the study. In fact, nearly 
900,000 was raised, and rather over half was spent. If the rest is in 
the bank there'd be some merit in spending a little of it on a robust 
passenger estimate of the potential for end to end traffic from the 
population centres there - and beyond. The initial conclusions didn't go 
near suggesting that though, they just about got as far as suggesting 
that there should be an examination of ways to prevent further 
deterioration of engineering works on the line, to minimise costs of any 
future reopening as a railway. I bet that's in place.

Chippy wrote:


> Yeah, right, it's all a big bad conspiracy.  The Rios served Leicester.
> They ran to Manchester.  They didn't carry many passengers.


But they _only_ served Leicester. There are lots of other centres of
population in the East Midlands! Given that Nottingham already has an
hourly service, I would have thought that stopping the Rios at
Loughborough, probably Derby, and Chesterfield. That would have given
a _much_ bigger potential market, for very little extra cost, and
would probably have carried far more passengers as a result.

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Mark Annand wrote:


> "It had initially been hoped that the service would provide a direct 
> link between Derby and Manchester, but timetable constraints meant the 
> service never stopped at Derby."


   They have missed the word 'officially' from that sentence. I was on 
it more than once when delays meant an extra stop at Derby was inserted

   Mind you, I'm surprised that it only takes about 1h30 from Stockport 
to Derby, although the change at Sheffield is a nice, tight 10-15 
minutes. That said, I'm sure that a direct service would come in at well 
under an hour - I'd even guess at around 50 minutes based on 35 minutes 
best time Stockport to Sheffield and 30 minutes best time Sheffield to 
Derby. You'd save maybe 10 minutes each way from Sheffield to Dore for 
starters.

Stephen Hughes wrote:

> 
>    There is talk of trying to force lorries to use either M62/M1 or
> M6/A50 by means of local weight restrictions on other roads within this


While this would be an ideal solution to the problem, Alistair "Car Is
King" Darling prefers to spend 90m quid (current estimate) ruining a
national park with a half-hearted bypass that will solve nothing.

Cheers

mark-r 

-- 
"Let's meet the panel. You couldn't ask for four finer comedians -
so that answers your next question..."
 -- Humphrey Lyttleton

Mark Robinson wrote:

> 
> While this would be an ideal solution to the problem, Alistair "Car Is
> King" Darling prefers to spend 90m quid (current estimate) ruining a
> national park with a half-hearted bypass that will solve nothing.


   Yes, and it seems that despite the opposition it is going to happen 
regardless. FWIW I can see the logic in bypassing the centre of Mottram 
but no need to do anything beyond sweep across the current road there to 
Wooley Bridge - the only reason Woodhead backs up is the level of 
Glossop traffic. If this is removed the existing road is more than 
adequate, *and* the section to be bypassed far from the worst.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:51:40 +0100, Mark Annand
 wrote:


>Terry Harper wrote:
>
>> Try specifying via Buxton.
>> 
>> Departure   Leicester  
>> Destination   Manchester  
>> Via Buxton
>> Date 23/08/2005
>> Time: 03h07 including 00h08 on motorways
>> Distance: 87 mi including 8.5 mi on motorways
>>  
>> That's from http://www.viamichelin.co.uk
>
>Time: 03h07
>
>:-) Ouch ...


A lot of that is getting from the outskirts into Manchester:-(
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:14:49 GMT, Stephen Hughes 
wrote:


>   Yes, and it seems that despite the opposition it is going to happen 
>regardless. FWIW I can see the logic in bypassing the centre of Mottram 


The trouble with Mottram is that set of traffic lights.  I've never
known it *not* queue from the M67.  While I know it is restricted by
buildings (so something like a roundabout wouldn't fit) and I don't
know what the other flow is like, there *must* be a better option.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Grant"  wrote in message
news:1124716110.25460.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.clara.net...

> My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for 10.30
> meetings that are a ten minute walk away.
>
> Trainline.com offers routes via Birmingham or two changes via Nuneaton and
> Stafford. Assuming I don't want to faff around with changes and the
problems
> that can entail, where's my nearest station that I can get a direct and
> arrives round 10am service from ?


Go to Leicester Central station and catch the 08:25 service calling at
Nottingham Victoria, Sheffield Victoria and terminating at Manchester London
Road at -

Shit. Sorry, I forgot - this isn't 1958!


-- 
Ronnie
--
Have a great day...
....Have a Great Central day.
www.greatcentralrailway.com

Ronnie Clark wrote:


> Go to Leicester Central station and catch the 08:25 service calling at
> Nottingham Victoria, Sheffield Victoria and terminating at Manchester London
> Road at -
> 
> Shit. Sorry, I forgot - this isn't 1958!


Nice fantasy though. Thanks for sharing. What time would it have arrived 
at Manchester?

You do feel for the passengers that turned up by train at was it called 
'the Vic', after the services north from there were er suppressed, and 
someone had to give them the advice to leg it to Nottingham Midland 
station, conveniently located in the southern suburbs (miaow!) around a 
mile away for a 'Connection'.

A bit round the houses, the GC route north, though, for Manchester. An 
alternate and not improbable universe might have you going to the 
Midland station at Leicester and getting on a Chiltern Railways service 
running to Derby and then taking the Matlock route to Manchester. Best 
of both worlds :-)

I recall, some time ago, someone who'd worked in the signalling for 
Nottingham Victoria posting to uk.railway - it's curious how recent all 
this is yet so out of reach. Even if you were there. He was 
understandably still quite worked up about the line having been trashed, 
even at a distance of half a lifetime.

Terry Harper wrote:


>>>Try specifying via Buxton.
>>>
>>>Departure   Leicester  
>>>Destination   Manchester  
>>>Via Buxton
>>>Date 23/08/2005
>>>Time: 03h07 including 00h08 on motorways
>>>Distance: 87 mi including 8.5 mi on motorways
>>> 
>>>That's from http://www.viamichelin.co.uk
>>
>>Time: 03h07
>>
>>:-) Ouch ...
> 
> 
> A lot of that is getting from the outskirts into Manchester:-(


Which might just be the major problem with a revived Matlock to Chinley 
link given the volume of traffic that would present itself :-)

Neil Williams wrote:


> The trouble with Mottram is that set of traffic lights.  I've never
> known it *not* queue from the M67.  While I know it is restricted by
> buildings (so something like a roundabout wouldn't fit) and I don't
> know what the other flow is like, there *must* be a better option.


   True, but they tend to restrict flow across the A57 much more than 
down it. You can be stuck for a long time trying to get from the 
Stalybridge direction for example - most locals know it's easier to go 
down Matley Lane and get on at Hyde.

   The traffic lights could be improved by having filters - often 
turning traffic can seriously reduce the flow - but there is no real 
solution without a new road. Don't forget also that the lights at 
Hollingworth also cause holdups, as does the very bad roundabout at 
Wooley Bridge.

   Two solutions stick out, neither being what is on the cards to be 
built. The first would be to run a slip off the M67 where it was 
originally intended (you can see this clearly just before the 
roundabout) and along between the current A57 and Edge Lane, under the 
new road and Mottram Moor and join the existing road somewhere around 
Dinting. The alternative would be to direct Glossop traffic down the 
dual carriageway through Hattersley and cut a new road off vaguely along 
the line of the railway to Gamesley.

   Of course, a third option would be that as they are currently in the 
process of raizing Hattersley and redeveloping the area they could take 
the new road through there, tunnel under Warhill and enter Glossop that 
way. This is the shortest route and while it will disturb 'virgin' 
countryside, it should have the least visible impact but will, I 
suspect, cost the most as Warhill is quite an obstacle.

   Either way, the main traffic flow is to and from Glossop - anything 
aside from this is well enough served by the road that is already there 
so there is no need to go through the nature reserve or Old Hall 
showground. (Both of which would be significant losses - the showground 
is one of the best situated in the country and the nature reserve is 
very pleasant)

Stephen Hughes wrote:

> Neil Williams wrote:
> 
>> The trouble with Mottram is that set of traffic lights.  I've never
>> known it *not* queue from the M67.  While I know it is restricted by
>> buildings (so something like a roundabout wouldn't fit) and I don't
>> know what the other flow is like, there *must* be a better option.


>   True, but they tend to restrict flow across the A57 much more than 
> down it. You can be stuck for a long time trying to get from the 
> Stalybridge direction for example - most locals know it's easier to go 
> down Matley Lane and get on at Hyde.
> 


Shh !  We get enough traffic down Matley Lane as it is !

Some locals in Mottram, Tintwistle and Hadfield (a local town for local 
people) say the worst move they ever made was to put the "Manchester" 
sign up on the M1 at Junction 35A.

When travelling to Sheffield, I'm not sure what is more depressing; the 
queue from the end of the M67 to the Mottram lights, or, if you go the 
other way from Staly through the Roe Cross cutting, sitting at the 
lights there and seeing an artic go past, thinking "that's the lorry I'm 
going to be stuck behind for the next 40 minutes" !

Or the sight of an abandoned electrified railway :-(

I'll wager we get Crossrail before we get the Mottran Bypass :-)

"matt"  wrote

>
> I'll wager we get Crossrail before we get the Mottran Bypass :-)


or trains through the W******d T****l again. ;-)

Peter

"Ronnie Clark"  
wrote in message news:deiicd$95m$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

>
> "Grant"  wrote in message
> news:1124716110.25460.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.clara.net...
>> My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for 10.30
>> meetings that are a ten minute walk away.
>>
>> Trainline.com offers routes via Birmingham or two changes via Nuneaton 
>> and
>> Stafford. Assuming I don't want to faff around with changes and the
> problems
>> that can entail, where's my nearest station that I can get a direct and
>> arrives round 10am service from ?
>
> Go to Leicester Central station and catch the 08:25 service calling at
> Nottingham Victoria, Sheffield Victoria and terminating at Manchester 
> London
> Road at -
>
> Shit. Sorry, I forgot - this isn't 1958!


And return on the overnight Marylebone. It called "all stations" it seemed 
when I last used it!

(1965)

KW

matt wrote:


> Shh !  We get enough traffic down Matley Lane as it is !


   Not for the faint-hearted, the way some locals barrel down there...


> When travelling to Sheffield, I'm not sure what is more depressing; the 
> queue from the end of the M67 to the Mottram lights, or, if you go the 
> other way from Staly through the Roe Cross cutting, sitting at the 
> lights there and seeing an artic go past, thinking "that's the lorry I'm 
> going to be stuck behind for the next 40 minutes" !


   You must travel at very quiet times for the queue to only reach the 
end of the M67.... As for the lorries, yes, you really do just resign 
yourself to being stuck, don't you? Even a fool in a scooby would 
struggle to pass one and it certainly wouldn't be safely on that road.


> Or the sight of an abandoned electrified railway :-(


   This is the really daft thing about it all - they have the perfect 
way to get freight and lorries across the pennines but won't even 
consider it. The old Mottram Yard could probably be converted in to a 
RoRo terminal and I'm sure there is something at the other side where 
the same could be done. Then lorries could be banned from Woodhead and 
Snake without complaint as there is a much better way to get them 
across. We might even see fewer of the b*gger$ on the M62 as well.


> I'll wager we get Crossrail before we get the Mottran Bypass :-)


   Hard to tell - from what I read work is scheduled to start next year 
as the contracts have already been placed...

Neil Williams wrote:


> The trouble with Mottram is that set of traffic lights.  I've never
> known it *not* queue from the M67.


Experience suggests that it's clear at 3am. ;-)

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9633051.html
(47 844 at Longsight, 23 Feb 2002)

Stephen Hughes wrote:

> Mark Annand wrote:
> 
>> It would be interesting to know the route a real person would choose. 

>   For any way, the way across is the problem rather than down. Woodhead 
> (and Snake) are slow if you get stuck behind a lorry, the A623 is great 
> if you get the right time but again lorries can be a *big* issue here, 
> and the A50 while a better road has a few restrictions on it and is a 
> much longer way. The shortest is most likely Macclesfield and Ashbourne 
> but again this is heavily restricted and prone to delays.
> 


Thanks for this. There's certainly an untidy selection of types of road 
needed for the trip. Must be a fun journey in poor weather. :-(

Mark

Grant wrote:

> My nearest station is Leicester. I need to travel to Piccadilly for 10.30
> meetings that are a ten minute walk away.


This thread seems to have drifted into a "re-open Woodhead and/or
Miller's Dale" debate, but I'm still interested in the OP's original
question. I wonder which, if any, of the train services suggested
actually appeals to him.
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

Stephen Hughes wrote:
   :

> 
>   You must travel at very quiet times for the queue to only reach the 
> end of the M67.... 


I didn't say which end :-)

"Pat Ricroft" pat.ricroft@virgin.net wrote in message
news:1124964569.677212.40490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com

>
> This thread seems to have drifted into a "re-open Woodhead and/or
> Miller's Dale" debate, but I'm still interested in the OP's original
> question. I wonder which, if any, of the train services suggested
> actually appeals to him.


I ended up taking the 7:07 from Leicester to Birmingham on a pleasant enough
CT 3 coach train - surprised there wasn't any 1st class though for a journey
lasting an hour.

15 minute wait at BNS and then my first trip on a Voyager. Seemed OK to me
except the smell round the toilet. At-seat service was frequent and
courteous.

Arrived on time just after 10am. For someone used to Paddington, St. Pancras
and Leicester, Piccadilly is very swank :)

On the way back, got to Piccadilly at 15:25. Asked at the info desk for the
next options to Leicester and was offered routes via BNS, Sheffield and
Nottingham (I think). BNS looked the best although it meant a 30 minute wait
at Piccadilly and another 30 minutes at BNS.

Trip back was pretty much the same except for a 10 minute "WTF is that
smell?!?" section on the Voyager. Not "hmm, unpleasant", this was near
gag-inducing. I went for a walk to try and find some clean air.

88 for 1st seemed OK value for 3+ hours each way[1]. 7.50 to park at
Leicester would be OK if you could pay by card or even notes.....c'mon guys,
it's 2005.

Just a shame that even station-to-station, it's slower by train. Probably
close to an hour quicker each way door-to-door by car.


[1] Whereas the 80 I had to pay today for a Leicester-London SOR is taking
the mick, especially as it's 29 for a travelcard from the next station down
the line.

Grant wrote:

>
> I ended up taking the 7:07 from Leicester to Birmingham on a pleasant enough
> CT 3 coach train - surprised there wasn't any 1st class though for a journey
> lasting an hour.


You could have had first class throughout by travelling via Sheffield -
0733 from Leicester to Sheffield arr 0905, then 0911
TransPennineExpress to Piccadilly, arr 1003. But the thread drifted so
much that no-one thought to mention that. Bit of a tight connection
anyway. And no guarantee that TPE will turn out a set with first class
accommodation anyway.

[snip]


> £7.50 to park at
> Leicester would be OK if you could pay by card or even notes.....c'mon guys,
> it's 2005.


The machines in railway car parks tend not to take notes - machinery is
too complicated, too much to go wrong - but they are increasingly
taking credit and debit cards. It depends on who's actually running the
car park (seems to be Midland Mainline themselves, rather than a
contractor, at Leicester) and whether they can get the machines linked
to a phone system. This can be down by wire, or wirelessly, so I'm a
bit surprised that Leicester isn't suitably equipped.
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

matt wrote:


> I didn't say which end :-)


  To be fair, I've never seen it queueing past Hyde. However, I was once 
stuck not far beyond the bridge and it took about an hour from there to 
Mottram. It's a shame the road curves left here as you can't see in time 
to bail out at Hyde and the signs are next to useless - many are the 
times I've seen either a warning of queues when there are none, or no 
warnings when they have been bad. I really cannot understand why they 
stopped this road where they did - it takes traffic away from some 
bottlenecks but you only need one to remain for things to be as slow as 
ever.

Stephen Hughes wrote:

> matt wrote:
> 
>> I didn't say which end :-)
> 
> 
>  To be fair, I've never seen it queueing past Hyde. However, I was once 
> stuck not far beyond the bridge and it took about an hour from there to 
> Mottram. It's a shame the road curves left here as you can't see in time 
> to bail out at Hyde and the signs are next to useless - many are the 
> times I've seen either a warning of queues when there are none, or no 
> warnings when they have been bad. I really cannot understand why they 
> stopped this road where they did - it takes traffic away from some 
> bottlenecks but you only need one to remain for things to be as slow as 
> ever.


There's quite a lot about the original plans on the "Pathetic Motorways" 
site (http://pathetic.org.uk/motorways/m67-2.htm or thereabouts)

Mind you, the other end can be almost as bad, I usually chicken out and 
go through Haughton Green if I'm going to Stockport !

Mark Annand wrote:

> It would be interesting to know the route a real person 
> would choose. Where's your 90 mile one?


   Probably similar for Leicester but whenever I go to Nottingham (from 
Stockport) we go A6, A623 to Chesterfield then down the M1. From 
Manchester, it really depends where you are. If you have easy access to 
the M6 then it's probably the best route (then A50 to Derby) but if you 
are on the Tameside side then you may even be better doing Woodhead 
(trying to catch a view of the steam locos on the way past) and M1 from 
there.

   For any way, the way across is the problem rather than down. Woodhead 
(and Snake) are slow if you get stuck behind a lorry, the A623 is great 
if you get the right time but again lorries can be a *big* issue here, 
and the A50 while a better road has a few restrictions on it and is a 
much longer way. The shortest is most likely Macclesfield and Ashbourne 
but again this is heavily restricted and prone to delays.


>> The Rio loadings didn't indicate a viable level of potential custom.
> 
> 
> Though they weren't trying to serve the market. Weren't they more or 
> less designed  *not* to serve the east midlands? 


   Wasn't there actually a restriction as to where you could travel on 
them? Was Manc > Leicester even permitted? Either way, they were mainly 
touted as being a replacement London service rather than a way to get to 
the East Midlands.

matt wrote:


> There's quite a lot about the original plans on the "Pathetic Motorways" 
> site (http://pathetic.org.uk/motorways/m67-2.htm or thereabouts)


   I had seen that before but thanks for reminding me. The maps show 
just what could be done with the bypass rather than the carnage 
proposed. Where the route they are going to build will decimate Mottram 
showground and cut through a swathe of lovely countryside above 
Hollingworth and Tintwistle, if they followed this route then it would 
barely touch the showground and they could even carry on the route as 
shown to join the B6105 after the Devil's Elbow. This is quite a good 
road in the main, all they would need to do is straighten out the level 
crossing section and improve the junction with the A628 and you would 
have a bypass that not only bypasses the villages intended but also 
serves Hadfield, Padfield and allows access to Glossop from two sides.


> Mind you, the other end can be almost as bad, I usually chicken out and 
> go through Haughton Green if I'm going to Stockport !


   Short-sightedness when building again. No reason they couldn't have 
built the intended fly-over and a proper slip system to / from the M60.

"Mark Annand"  wrote in message 
news:430ba642$0$12562$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net...

> Stephen Hughes wrote:
>
>>   I must admit I am surprised we don't at least have a direct service to 
>> say Derby or Chesterfield, missing out Sheffield as this could save 
>> significant amounts of time even if a change is necessary for some onward 
>> destinations.
>
> A newspaper report from the time the service was discontinued:
>
> http://www.businessderbyshire.co.uk/news/04/sept/040910b.htm
>
> "The service did not stop at Derby but provided a quick link to Manchester 
> and the north west from Leicester.
>
> There has been no direct Derby to Manchester link since 1968.
>
> Midland Mainline recruited more than 200 additional staff - 47 drivers, 26 
> train managers, 120 customer hosts and 20 station staff - for the route."
>
> <snip>
>

Not strictly true. When the Anglia - North West services were revamped in 
1988, using 156s, at least two journeys each day ran via Derby. In addition, 
in the 1987 timetable the Nottingham - Blackpool services ran that way. In 
most cases the services alos used the Dore South curve, avoiding Sheffield.

Sean