I will be attending the GBBF this summer with many family members
including my nephew who will turn 18 years old this spring.  He is the
big reason we are going this year since it has been something he has
wanted to do since we attended our last GBBF in 1998 when he was 11
years old.  At that time we sat in the family room with him because he
could not be on the main festival floor.  

My problem is he wants to bring along a friend who will be only 17 years
old this August when the GBBF is being held.  Does anyone here know what
the rules are for an underaged person that old?  Would that person be
allowed in at all?  Would we have to sit in the family room again?

Any help with these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Bruce
CAMRA member from New Jersey

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:23:54 GMT, Bruce 
wrote:



>
>My problem is he wants to bring along a friend who will be only 17 years
>old this August when the GBBF is being held.  Does anyone here know what
>the rules are for an underaged person that old?  Would that person be
>allowed in at all? 


Don't know what the admission rules for that particular event is but
legally he would be allowed in.  

I think in practice it wouldn't be a problem anyway;  people start
going to pubs here long before that age :-)


> Would we have to sit in the family room again?
>


Only if you want to :-)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:23:54 GMT, Bruce 
wrote:


>I will be attending the GBBF this summer with many family members
>including my nephew who will turn 18 years old this spring.  He is the
>big reason we are going this year since it has been something he has
>wanted to do since we attended our last GBBF in 1998 when he was 11
>years old.  At that time we sat in the family room with him because he
>could not be on the main festival floor.  
>
>My problem is he wants to bring along a friend who will be only 17 years
>old this August when the GBBF is being held.  Does anyone here know what
>the rules are for an underaged person that old?  Would that person be
>allowed in at all?  Would we have to sit in the family room again?


I've never known anyone be asked for formal age ID either for
admission or at the bars. Legally the 18 age limit applies when
purchasing alcohol, but unless the friend looks very young I don't
think there'll be a problem buying the odd beer, especially if s/he's
with older people and behaving him/herself. Underage drinking isn't
perceived as a problem at beer festivals.

Of course, if the underage person is happy drinking soft drinks then
there isn't a problem at all. In the UK anyone over 14 can drink
nonalcoholic drinks in licenced premises if the licensee doesn't
object.

HTH, Paul
--
Paul Sherwin Consulting     http://paulsherwin.co.uk

Bruce, my feeling is that GBBF runs the same age rules as most decent
UK pubs - if you behave fairly well and are 18 or older then you are
welcome inside & OK to drink alcohol.

You might want to ring or email CAMRA to check tho, as I've not heard
anything from them on this exact point before, and your son might be
less happy to come & not drink this time :~)

cheers,
MikeMcG.

In article ,
   k  wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:23:54 GMT, Bruce 
> wrote:

> >My problem is he wants to bring along a friend who will be only 17 years
> >old this August when the GBBF is being held.  Does anyone here know what
> >the rules are for an underaged person that old?  Would that person be
> >allowed in at all? 

> Don't know what the admission rules for that particular event is but
> legally he would be allowed in.


Not quite correct, he *could* be allowed in under certain conditions.

As it stands the licence is not a full on licence so the terms and
conditions are not what people would expect of a normal pub.

Even if it were a normal pub the 17 year old would be restricted in what
they could and could not do or consume.


> I think in practice it wouldn't be a problem anyway;  people start
> going to pubs here long before that age :-)


Ah, yes, but Bruce is a responsible adult and has quite rightly asked what
the situation is before even contemplating coming with the youth.

-- 
Steve Pampling

In article ,
   Paul Sherwin  wrote:

> Of course, if the underage person is happy drinking soft drinks then
> there isn't a problem at all. In the UK anyone over 14 can drink
> nonalcoholic drinks in licenced premises if the licensee doesn't
> object.


Since we're talking about a 17 year old then they can, under the stated
conditions, drink certain alcoholic beverages provided the licence permits
this and the licensee is agreeable.

-- 
Steve Pampling

Sorry Bruce, I missed the bit about the 17y.o. friend.

I'm guessing officially, no, at 17y.o. he would not be allowed to buy
alcohol if CAMRA were made fully aware of his age, but that in practice
if he looks about 18 & behaves well, & maybe someone else goes to the
bar . . . ?
cheers
MikeMcG

"Steven Pampling"  wrote in message 
news:4d48f280d5steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...

> In article ,
>   Paul Sherwin  wrote:
>> Of course, if the underage person is happy drinking soft drinks then
>> there isn't a problem at all. In the UK anyone over 14 can drink
>> nonalcoholic drinks in licenced premises if the licensee doesn't
>> object.
>
> Since we're talking about a 17 year old then they can, under the stated
> conditions, drink certain alcoholic beverages provided the licence permits
> this and the licensee is agreeable.


Didn't this used to be applicable when they were eating, something to do 
with cider, but cant remember the rest at the moment.

"MikeMcG"  wrote in message 
news:1110375290.492413.211960@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> Sorry Bruce, I missed the bit about the 17y.o. friend.
>
> I'm guessing officially, no, at 17y.o. he would not be allowed to buy
> alcohol if CAMRA were made fully aware of his age, but that in practice
> if he looks about 18 & behaves well, & maybe someone else goes to the
> bar . . . ?
> cheers
> MikeMcG



I've been attending the GBBF and other beer festivals with no age problems 
since I was 16.

BTN

"Steven Pampling"  wrote in message 
news:4d48f280d5steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...

> In article ,
>   Paul Sherwin  wrote:
>> Of course, if the underage person is happy drinking soft drinks then
>> there isn't a problem at all. In the UK anyone over 14 can drink
>> nonalcoholic drinks in licenced premises if the licensee doesn't
>> object.
>
> Since we're talking about a 17 year old then they can, under the stated
> conditions, drink certain alcoholic beverages provided the licence permits
> this and the licensee is agreeable.
>
> -- 
> Steve Pampling


The law seems to have changed since I was a licensee, I seem to have a dim 
recollection that if you were over 16 you could drink cider or perry. That 
does not appear  to be the case now unless you are having a meal.. Here is a 
plain english explanation of the law, probably limited, but I have not read 
all of it!
http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/law.pdf
and if anyone has the patience here is the real thing
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030017.htm

Regards,

Stuart Hudson

In article , hudson
 wrote:


> "Steven Pampling"  wrote in message
> news:4d48f280d5steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...
> > In article , Paul Sherwin
> >    wrote:
> >> Of course, if the underage person is happy drinking soft drinks then
> >> there isn't a problem at all. In the UK anyone over 14 can drink
> >> nonalcoholic drinks in licenced premises if the licensee doesn't
> >> object.
> >
> > Since we're talking about a 17 year old then they can, under the
> > stated conditions, drink certain alcoholic beverages provided the
> > licence permits this and the licensee is agreeable.
> >
> > -- Steve Pampling

> The law seems to have changed since I was a licensee, I seem to have a
> dim recollection that if you were over 16 you could drink cider or
> perry. That does not appear  to be the case now unless you are having a
> meal.. Here is a plain english explanation of the law, probably
> limited, but I have not read all of it!
> http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/law.pdf and if anyone has the patience
> here is the real thing http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030017.htm


Thanks for that Stuart, reading (some of) the text it becomes apparent that
as you say the law has changed on this point and that the loophole
regarding cider and perry has shut.

For Bruces question the answer is in
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30017--h.htm#145 in which it makes
(reasonably) clear that provided the child is over 16 (17 counts :-) and
they are accompanied by a person over 18.

The child may *not* consume alcohol.

-- 
Steve Pampling

Steven Pampling  wrote:

>
> For Bruces question the answer is in
> http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30017--h.htm#145 in which it
> makes (reasonably) clear that provided the child is over 16 (17
> counts :-) and they are accompanied by a person over 18.
>
> The child may *not* consume alcohol.


This suggests that it is legal for someone aged 16 or 17 to consume beer, 
wine or cider as part of the consumption of a "table meal" on relevant 
premises, provided they are accompanied by someone 18 or over.

Obviously this is not going to apply to the GBBF.

AIUI the previous exemption was that people aged 16 or 17 could buy beer or 
cider (but not wine) *themselves* under such circumstances.

-- 
http://www.stockportpubs.org.uk
"If a river bridge were not guarded by a parapet, the slackness of the
defaulting authority deserves the blame, not the people who fall in" -
Lieut. Col. Mervyn O'Gorman.

hudson wrote:

> I seem to have a dim 
> recollection that if you were over 16 you could drink cider or perry. 


Ah, that wonderful, harmless cider or perry! It amuses me no end at beer 
fests watching the young girls (dirty old man!) getting into the 
harmless cider or perry at 6/7/8% whilst studiously ignoring the 
dangerous beers at 3/4/5%.

KeithS

If in doubt about the 17yr old, kit him out in a wig of straggly grey
hair with a matching false beard. Put him in an old, crumpled orange
t-shirt too. (Don't bother with sandals, spills can be hellish on
woollen socks).

He'll fit right in.

I'm hearing you in glorious stero - type.

The subtlety of your humour however is lost on me.

All in jest. I should have put one of those tedious ;-) thingies in
there.

In article ,
   Jeff Pickthall  wrote:

> All in jest. I should have put one of those tedious ;-) thingies in
> there.


Ah, the trouble is that the crumpled orange thingie would probably be
washed (as would the wearer) thus making them stand out like the
proverbial...

BTW. If anyone objects, I think I'm entitled to make the jest. :-P

-- 
Steve Pampling

Jeff Pickthall wrote:

> 
> All in jest. I should have put one of those tedious ;-) thingies in
> there.


Why ;-)

John B

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 22:35:11 +0000, Jeff Pickthall wrote
(in message ):


> If in doubt about the 17yr old, kit him out in a wig of straggly grey
> hair with a matching false beard. Put him in an old, crumpled orange
> t-shirt too. (Don't bother with sandals, spills can be hellish on
> woollen socks).
> 
> He'll fit right in.
> 


You forgot the fishing hat with loads of badges and pewter tankard fastened 
to his belt. Maybe the t-shirt should have some 'witty' Oliver Reed slogan on 
just to highlight a responsible, connoisseur's approach to alcohol. ;-) ;-) 
;-)

In article ,
   Jeff Pickthall  wrote:

> If in doubt about the 17yr old, kit him out in a wig of straggly grey
> hair with a matching false beard. 


And then he can be a target for the shaving manufacturer who wants to have
a stand at the festival...


> Put him in an old, crumpled orange
> t-shirt too. (Don't bother with sandals, spills can be hellish on
> woollen socks).

> He'll fit right in.


And be drafted in to be a steward right away!

-- 
Christine Ramsbottom

Christine a crit :


> And be drafted in to be a steward right away!


Won't he need large tattoos as well to be drafted in as steward ? :o>

-- 
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

.... Et seul un animal marin aurait la possibilit de se mouvoir dans l'espace avec autant d'aisance que dans la mer il se meut !! Et l'on sait que rien n'gale le spectacle du PPuissant Baleinoptre - avec ou sans bosse - voluant parmi l'lment liquide et sal... 
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

Jeff Pickthall a crit :


> (Don't bother with sandals, spills can be hellish on
>woollen socks).
>

Sounds like you've been there, done it...

-- 
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

.... Et seul un animal marin aurait la possibilit de se mouvoir dans l'espace avec autant d'aisance que dans la mer il se meut !! Et l'on sait que rien n'gale le spectacle du PPuissant Baleinoptre - avec ou sans bosse - voluant parmi l'lment liquide et sal... 
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

In article <423091c0$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>,
   The Submarine Captain  wrote:

> Christine a crit :

> > And be drafted in to be a steward right away!

> Won't he need large tattoos as well to be drafted in as steward ? :o>


Henna tattoos of course. Not the ones which we persuaded the drinkers to
remove before it set - the ones on the forehead... censored due to polite
company...

-- 
Christine Ramsbottom

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 14:16:58 -0000, hudson wrote:


> "Steven Pampling"  wrote in message 
> news:4d48f280d5steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com...
>> In article ,
>>   Paul Sherwin  wrote:
>>> Of course, if the underage person is happy drinking soft drinks then
>>> there isn't a problem at all. In the UK anyone over 14 can drink
>>> nonalcoholic drinks in licenced premises if the licensee doesn't
>>> object.
>>
>> Since we're talking about a 17 year old then they can, under the stated
>> conditions, drink certain alcoholic beverages provided the licence permits
>> this and the licensee is agreeable.
>>
>> -- 
>> Steve Pampling
> 
> The law seems to have changed since I was a licensee, I seem to have a dim 
> recollection that if you were over 16 you could drink cider or perry.


LOL!  That's going to keep teenagers nicely sober isn't it? :)  

-- 
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster  http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using words well is a social virtue.  Use 'fortuitous' once more to
mean 'fortunate' and you move an English word another step towards
the dustbin.  If your mistake took hold, no one who valued clarity
would be able to use the word again.

   John Whale

>>
>> The law seems to have changed since I was a licensee, I seem to have a 
>> dim
>> recollection that if you were over 16 you could drink cider or perry.
>
> LOL!  That's going to keep teenagers nicely sober isn't it? :)
>
> -- 
> Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster  http://www.loobynet.com
> * remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *


Well it always was a bit odd, but that was what I liked about this country, 
the totally nonsensical rules. They keep on tidying them up though. Very 
sad.

Stuart Hudson

In article , Jeff 
Pickthall  writes

>Put him in an old, crumpled orange
>t-shirt too


One way to make sure no-one will serve him beer....

Steve

-- 
Steve Glover, Fell Services Ltd.
Home: steve at fell.demon.co.uk, 0131 551 3835
Away: steve.glover at ukonline.co.uk, 07961 446 902

In article <423091c0$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>, The Submarine Captain 
 writes

>> And be drafted in to be a steward right away!
>
>Won't he need large tattoos as well to be drafted in as steward ? :o>


Blimey! Things have changed since I last made it down for GBBF - I did 
hear from someone, though, that stewards now have to have passed the 
same certification as pub/club door staff.

Steve

-- 
Steve Glover, Fell Services Ltd.
Home: steve at fell.demon.co.uk, 0131 551 3835
Away: steve.glover at ukonline.co.uk, 07961 446 902

In article <QBn$A0R6GCPCFwpa@akicif.fsnet.co.uk>,
   Steve Glover  wrote:

> In article <423091c0$1_2@news.bluewin.ch>, The Submarine Captain 
>  writes
> >> And be drafted in to be a steward right away!
> >
> >Won't he need large tattoos as well to be drafted in as steward ? :o>

> Blimey! Things have changed since I last made it down for GBBF - I did 
> hear from someone, though, that stewards now have to have passed the 
> same certification as pub/club door staff.


True, but without the additional module[1] required for doormen.


> Steve


[1] Being an obnoxious plonker.

-- 
Steve Pampling

In article , Steven Pampling 
 writes

>> Blimey! Things have changed since I last made it down for GBBF - I did
>> hear from someone, though, that stewards now have to have passed the
>> same certification as pub/club door staff.
>
>True, but without the additional module[1] required for doormen.


'Eck - how are they managing to get enough stewards?

(As far as I can tell, if you get certificated in Edinburgh, you're only 
valid for Edinburgh - is it different Dahn Sahf? Also, it's not cheap)

Steve

-- 
Steve Glover, Fell Services Ltd.
Home: steve at fell.demon.co.uk, 0131 551 3835
Away: steve.glover at ukonline.co.uk, 07961 446 902

In article ,
   Steve Glover  wrote:

> In article , Steven Pampling 
>  writes
> >> Blimey! Things have changed since I last made it down for GBBF - I did
> >> hear from someone, though, that stewards now have to have passed the
> >> same certification as pub/club door staff.
> >
> >True, but without the additional module[1] required for doormen.

> 'Eck - how are they managing to get enough stewards?


Free training. :-)


> (As far as I can tell, if you get certificated in Edinburgh, you're only 
> valid for Edinburgh - is it different Dahn Sahf? Also, it's not cheap)


As ever, if you want training in an occupation then it can probably be
sourced "in-house" don't forget the membership goes from dustmen to
doctors, IT support to Income Tax, Physiotherapist to ...

....damn, begins with P, an old profession, ... suggestions?

-- 
Steve Pampling

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:20:50 +0000 (GMT), Steven Pampling
 wrote:


>For Bruces question the answer is in
>http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30017--h.htm#145 in which it makes
>(reasonably) clear that provided the child is over 16 (17 counts :-) and
>they are accompanied by a person over 18.
>
>The child may *not* consume alcohol.



A child of 16 or 17 can drink beer and wine in licensed premises as
long as they're eating something with it. See page 3 of
http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/law.pdf

At home of course a child can drink from age 4 I think. I'm not sure
of the exact age.

Tristn White  wrote:

>
> A child of 16 or 17 can drink beer and wine in licensed premises as
> long as they're eating something with it. See page 3 of
> http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/law.pdf


They can only do so in a table service restaurant which doesn't admit people 
purely for drinking. Not in the bar of a pub.

-- 
http://www.stockportpubs.org.uk
"If a river bridge were not guarded by a parapet, the slackness of the
defaulting authority deserves the blame, not the people who fall in" -
Lieut. Col. Mervyn O'Gorman.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:58:04 -0000, "PeterE"
 wrote:


>Tristn White  wrote:
>>
>> A child of 16 or 17 can drink beer and wine in licensed premises as
>> long as they're eating something with it. See page 3 of
>> http://www.ias.org.uk/factsheets/law.pdf
>
>They can only do so in a table service restaurant which doesn't admit people 
>purely for drinking. Not in the bar of a pub.



I was under the impression that JD Weatherspoons could, though.

The stewards at the recent London Drinker were in their officious
element when an alarm went off and their had to be an evacuation on to
the street. You could just about see the adrenaline and the buzz of
excitement in them. Their mates (if they have any) will be hearing
about their moment of fame for a long time to come.

JP

In article ,
   Jeff Pickthall  wrote:

> The stewards at the recent London Drinker were in their officious
> element when an alarm went off and their had to be an evacuation on to
> the street. You could just about see the adrenaline and the buzz of
> excitement in them. Their mates (if they have any) will be hearing
> about their moment of fame for a long time to come.


Hmmm.
Given that the reason for the alarm could be fire, bomb or a.n.other reason
would anyone really complain if the person that moved them out of a
building before it exploded was not unctuous enough for royalty?

25 years of festivals and I've never needed to evacuate people from the
building - lucky.

-- 
Steve Pampling

It was when everyone was already outside when I encountered them. They
took it upon themselves to instruct innocent non-festival goers too.

I wonder if it was the stifling heat and humidity in the venue that set
of some kind of sensor? It was bloody awful in there and most punters
were pleased to be able to take their drinks outside and get a lungful
of fresh London air.

JP

In article ,
   Jeff Pickthall  wrote:

> It was when everyone was already outside when I encountered them. They
> took it upon themselves to instruct innocent non-festival goers too.


I saw G.B.B.F stewards instructing people not go up Olympia Way at one
point the other year - the fact that their hair might have been radically
shortened by the rotors of the helicopter trying to land didn't seem to be
appreciated by all the people held back near the station. 



> I wonder if it was the stifling heat and humidity in the venue that set
> of some kind of sensor? It was bloody awful in there and most punters
> were pleased to be able to take their drinks outside and get a lungful
> of fresh London air.


Nice irony.
Does "fresh" and "London air" count as a full spec oxymoron? :-)


> JP


-- 
Steve Pampling

It was fresher than some of the beer I had!

JP

In article , Jeff 
Pickthall  writes

>The stewards at the recent London Drinker were in their officious
>element when an alarm went off and their had to be an evacuation on to
>the street. You could just about see the adrenaline and the buzz of
>excitement in them. Their mates (if they have any) will be hearing
>about their moment of fame for a long time to come.


Can't speak to that - or to your interpretation of the stewards' 
reaction, but one of the standard bits of steward training up in 
Scotland is on fire safety, with the complete video of the Bradford 
Stadium Fire, complete with voice-overs from emergency services at the 
time.

Having seen that video would encourage ANYONE to have an adrenaline rush 
when emptying a venue  - and not in a good way, either.

Steve
-- 
Steve Glover, Fell Services Ltd.
Home: steve at fell.demon.co.uk, 0131 551 3835
Away: steve.glover at ukonline.co.uk, 07961 446 902