At the entrance to the platform at Cambridge today there were what I 
presume to be revenue assistants checking tickets in an extremely 
cursory manner. They didn't even have Avantix or SPORTIS machines--those 
with only Permits to Travel (and there were a surprisingly large number 
of these) were directed to the ticket office to purchase tickets. Some 
were wearing jackets with the really old multiple-triangle WAGN logo.

As I left the assistant took my ticket, instead of stamping it. Should I 
have insisted that it be returned? It didn't have any more validity, and 
I had a credit card receipt so I didn't need it for financial 
recordkeeping, but it seems unusual that these were being taken.

If this happens again, is there any reason to insist on keeping the 
ticket that would justify the possible hassle? Or should I just forget 
about it next time too?
-- 
Michael Hoffman

"Michael Hoffman" <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote >

> As I left the assistant took my ticket, instead of stamping it. Should I
> have insisted that it be returned? It didn't have any more validity, and
> I had a credit card receipt so I didn't need it for financial
> recordkeeping, but it seems unusual that these were being taken.
>

Time was when the railway employed a whole army of ticket collectors who,
er, collected tickets. Even then it used to strike me as slightly odd, when
travelling on an express into Paddington, to be relieved of my ticket on
passing Twyford, and it was necessary to keep one's wits about one with a
through ticket to the other side of London (though in those days ordinary
cross-London tickets did not cover the transfer by London Underground).

Peter

"Michael Hoffman" <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote in message 
news:de88vd$itl$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...

> At the entrance to the platform at Cambridge today there were what I 
> presume to be revenue assistants checking tickets in an extremely cursory 
> manner. They didn't even have Avantix or SPORTIS machines--those with only 
> Permits to Travel (and there were a surprisingly large number of these) 
> were directed to the ticket office to purchase tickets. Some were wearing 
> jackets with the really old multiple-triangle WAGN logo.
>
> As I left the assistant took my ticket, instead of stamping it. Should I 
> have insisted that it be returned? It didn't have any more validity, and I 
> had a credit card receipt so I didn't need it for financial recordkeeping, 
> but it seems unusual that these were being taken.


Once upon a time, platforms were all gated and staffed, and your single 
ticket was collected or your return ticket was clipped - a technique 
followed even now at automatic gates if you think about it....

IIRC the railway employee might have been known as a 'ticket collector' to 
the general public!


> If this happens again, is there any reason to insist on keeping the ticket 
> that would justify the possible hassle? Or should I just forget about it 
> next time too?


Have you thought that they might not want you to use the ticket again?


Paul

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:56:58 +0100, Michael Hoffman
<cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote:


>At the entrance to the platform at Cambridge today there were what I 
>presume to be revenue assistants checking tickets in an extremely 
>cursory manner. They didn't even have Avantix or SPORTIS machines--those 
>with only Permits to Travel (and there were a surprisingly large number 
>of these) were directed to the ticket office to purchase tickets. Some 
>were wearing jackets with the really old multiple-triangle WAGN logo.
>
>As I left the assistant took my ticket, instead of stamping it. Should I 
>have insisted that it be returned? It didn't have any more validity, and 
>I had a credit card receipt so I didn't need it for financial 
>recordkeeping, but it seems unusual that these were being taken.
>
>If this happens again, is there any reason to insist on keeping the 
>ticket that would justify the possible hassle? Or should I just forget 
>about it next time too?


This always used to be the normal way of doing things. If you wanted
the ticket for expenses purposes, they would probably stamp it, clip
it or tear it partway.

Ticket collectors on trains arriving at open stations would normally
collect the tickets immediately after leaving the last stop before the
terminus, like Leicester before St Pancras, or Doncaster before Kings
Cross.
-- 
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

"Michael Hoffman" <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote in message
news:de88vd$itl$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...

>
> As I left the assistant took my ticket, instead of stamping it. Should I
> have insisted that it be returned? It didn't have any more validity, and
> I had a credit card receipt so I didn't need it for financial
> recordkeeping, but it seems unusual that these were being taken.
>
> If this happens again, is there any reason to insist on keeping the
> ticket that would justify the possible hassle? Or should I just forget
> about it next time too?


Legally the ticket belongs to the railway company, not to you, so you have
no "right" to keep it. For proof of purchase, such as for claiming expenses,
it is your responsibility to ask for a receipt when you buy the ticket. That
said, historically it has been common practise to return (usually cancelled)
tickets to customers where they haven't got such proof of purchase.

Paul Scott wrote:

> "Michael Hoffman" <cam.ac.uk@mh391.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:de88vd$itl$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
 >
>>If this happens again, is there any reason to insist on keeping the ticket 
>>that would justify the possible hassle? Or should I just forget about it 
>>next time too?
> 
> Have you thought that they might not want you to use the ticket again?


Easy enough to prevent if they stamp it as usual. Or even mark or clip 
it (although supposedly that is against ATOC rules). I was not 
suggesting that the ticket would again be useable.
-- 
Michael Hoffman

"Terry Harper"  wrote in message
news:qlafg11cttive68b3hg045l4j1fvllrred@4ax.com...


> This always used to be the normal way of doing things. If you wanted
> the ticket for expenses purposes, they would probably stamp it, clip
> it or tear it partway.
>
> Ticket collectors on trains arriving at open stations would normally
> collect the tickets immediately after leaving the last stop before the
> terminus, like Leicester before St Pancras, or Doncaster before Kings
> Cross.


Yes, my immediate reaction on reading the OP is that this is an age-related
thing. If there's a ticket barrier and I'm holding a single or the outward
portion of a return, I always expect the ticket to be retained by the
inspector. These days I make a point of insisting that they do, on the
grounds that if they've made me get it out for collection, the least they
can do is collect it.

Interesting to note that a number of classic detective story plots (of which
"The five red herrings" is the most obvious) just wouldn't work now.

Regards

Jonathan

Michael Hoffman wrote:


> As I left the assistant took my ticket, instead of stamping it. Should I 
> have insisted that it be returned? It didn't have any more validity, and 
> I had a credit card receipt so I didn't need it for financial 
> recordkeeping, but it seems unusual that these were being taken.
> 
> If this happens again, is there any reason to insist on keeping the 
> ticket that would justify the possible hassle? Or should I just forget 
> about it next time too?


Sounds fair enough. Lots of automatic ticket gates retain tickets that
have reached the end of their validity. The main reason, I suspect, is
to reduce the opportunities for people to continue to travel with an
invalid ticket, and to reduce the chances of touts buying used
tickets. As a bonus, it also removes the burden from you of disposing
of your ticket in a responsible manner :-)

Unless you have a reason to want your ticket - eg, reimbursement from
company, reimbursement for late train from TOC, collection - let them
keep it!

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Michael Hoffman wrote:

> At the entrance to the platform at Cambridge today there were what I 
> presume to be revenue assistants checking tickets in an extremely 
> cursory manner. They didn't even have Avantix or SPORTIS machines--those 
> with only Permits to Travel (and there were a surprisingly large number 
> of these) were directed to the ticket office to purchase tickets. Some 
> were wearing jackets with the really old multiple-triangle WAGN logo.
> 

(but I just walked by pushing my bike as I was meeting someone from a 
train. I wasn't questioned either in our out!)


> As I left the assistant took my ticket, instead of stamping it. Should I 
> have insisted that it be returned? It didn't have any more validity, and 
> I had a credit card receipt so I didn't need it for financial 
> recordkeeping, but it seems unusual that these were being taken.
> 
> If this happens again, is there any reason to insist on keeping the 
> ticket that would justify the possible hassle? Or should I just forget 
> about it next time too?


A long long time ago, when tickets were more often collected, I believe 
it was practise to collect and return tickets to 'Office of Issue'

I'd heard of some one in Leeds in mid 60's who printed raiway tickets. 
He had a contact in the ticket office to ensure that 'number' on ticket 
was not too much out of kilter, and he always insisted that no ticket 
was handed in. A fraudulent ticket would not be easily spotted unless it 
arrived back at issuing office. If you wanted say a ticket to Exeter, he 
gave you a ticket to Plymouth and you 'broke your journey' at Exeter, 
hence ticket was never handed in.

BUT

There used to be a set of roving 'inspectors' with tape recorders who 
collected all data including number of ticket. This was mainly for 
statistical purposes, as they colleted data on use of season tickets, 
privaledge tickes etc, but they were also likely to spot (but later) 
that fraudulent tickets were in circulation.

Do these inspectors still exist? The last ones I met were on a 
Thames-Clyde overnight sleeper. (I also meet some of the Western Region 
ones during some research I was doing at about the same time)

Jim Chisholm

Cambridge is no longer a WAGN station (became a "one" station last
year), so why are inspectors wearing uniforms with the old WAGN logo?
(Apart from the usual National Express parsimony?)

Having said that, my experience about travelling on WAGN (or should it
just now be GN?) is that on the (all-too-rare) occasions when the
inspectors descend on a station, they are very thorough and it's quite
common for there to be a police officer in attendance as well. I recall
an incident at my local station (Letchworth) late one Saturday night
recently when a train disgorged about 30 passengers, who proceeded to
climb the steps to the station exit and when they got to the top (you
cannot see the exit from the platform) - there were the grippers! It
was as though there was a chorus of "Oh sh*t!" and the grippers got a
lot of "custom"!!!

On 2005-08-21, Stevie D  wrote:

> Sounds fair enough. Lots of automatic ticket gates retain tickets that
> have reached the end of their validity. The main reason, I suspect, is
> to reduce the opportunities for people to continue to travel with an
> invalid ticket, and to reduce the chances of touts buying used
> tickets. As a bonus, it also removes the burden from you of disposing
> of your ticket in a responsible manner :-)
>


What, such as this?:

http://photos.garysmith.org.uk/p2247542.html
http://photos.garysmith.org.uk/p2247543.html
http://photos.garysmith.org.uk/p2247551.html

(Outside the back of Angel tube)

Gary