Last week I had to travel to Stirling, intending to stay overnight and 
return to Edinburgh later in the week, so I only bought a single ticket 
from Edinburgh - Stirling. Unfortunately, I had a later change of plan, 
and had to come back to Edinburgh the same evening (going back out 
again the following morning).

Not unreasonably, I thought, I asked the ticket clerk at Stirling
station if I could upgrade my (by then, used, although not stamped) single 
ticket to a Cheap Day Return, as, had I been able to foretell the
future, that would have been the valid ticket for my round trip.

"Naw."  (not even "Naw, /sorry/", sheesh..)

So I had to buy another single back, effectively just about doubling the 
cost of my round trip.

Was the ticket clerk telling the truth, or just being too lazy to look
up the fare difference?


It doesn't seem to be a particularly friendly way to treat customers to
charge them more than, by rights, they ought to have paid.

But then, this is the same ScotRail that lets you travel out and back on
offpeak trains on the same day as a cheap day return, but should you dare 
to spend the night away inbetween, delights in looking thick as shit when 
asked for a return ticket and insists on fleecing you for two full-price 
singles instead for essentially identical journeys for no good reason, so 
I guess I shouldn't expect more..


-- 
David M. -- Edinburgh, Scotland.--[en, fr, (de)]--[reply-to valid <365d]
 Please feel free to help me by correcting my foreign language errors 
 Don't look lazy & stupid: Please trim & interleave quotes in replies 
*Research climate change on your computer: http://climateprediction.net*

"David M"  wrote in message 
news:slrndgf0se.aj6.david@pepper.local.lan...

>
> Last week I had to travel to Stirling, intending to stay overnight and
> return to Edinburgh later in the week, so I only bought a single ticket
> from Edinburgh - Stirling. Unfortunately, I had a later change of plan,
> and had to come back to Edinburgh the same evening (going back out
> again the following morning).
>
> Not unreasonably, I thought, I asked the ticket clerk at Stirling
> station if I could upgrade my (by then, used, although not stamped) single
> ticket to a Cheap Day Return, as, had I been able to foretell the
> future, that would have been the valid ticket for my round trip.
>


I have done exactly as you described at the ticket office at Eastleigh, 
Hants after buying a single from a machine inadvertently. The ticket clerk 
excessed the ticket by 0.00, as CDR same price as a single.

I suppose the problem comes when someone 'obtains' a used single from 
someone else, or off the floor - I suspect this sort of request is best made 
of the on-train staff (if any)

Paul

Paul Scott wrote:


> I have done exactly as you described at the ticket office at Eastleigh, 
> Hants after buying a single from a machine inadvertently. The ticket clerk 
> excessed the ticket by 0.00, as CDR same price as a single.
> 
> I suppose the problem comes when someone 'obtains' a used single from 
> someone else, or off the floor - I suspect this sort of request is best made 
> of the on-train staff (if any)


The sooner all singles cost the same as half what returns cost, the better.

-- 
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/
Reverse my e-mail address to reply by e-mail

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:25:02 +0100, David M wrote:

> Was the ticket clerk telling the truth

Yes. 

From your account, it sounds as if your "change of plans" occurred after
the railway had already fully discharged its duty to you. That being the
case, it is hard to imagine why you would expect to be entitled to make
a subsequent journey at a 91% discount. 


> It doesn't seem to be a particularly friendly way to treat customers to
> charge them more than, by rights, they ought to have paid.

What rights are these?

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683680.html
(53054 (Class 116) at Leamington Spa, 10 Jun 1985)

In message <de824j$e7k$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk>, at 21:01:20 on Sat, 20 Aug 
2005, Jonathan Stott  remarked:


>The sooner all singles cost the same as half what returns cost, the better.


As long as that's not implemented by doubling the price of CDRs !
-- 
Roland Perry

"Jonathan Stott"  wrote in message
news:de824j$e7k$1@oheron.kent.ac.uk...

> Paul Scott wrote:
>
> > I have done exactly as you described at the ticket office at Eastleigh,
> > Hants after buying a single from a machine inadvertently. The ticket
clerk
> > excessed the ticket by 0.00, as CDR same price as a single.
> >
> > I suppose the problem comes when someone 'obtains' a used single from
> > someone else, or off the floor - I suspect this sort of request is best
made
> > of the on-train staff (if any)
>
> The sooner all singles cost the same as half what returns cost, the

better.

Well, maybe. But would you agree with the proposition "the sooner all
returns cost twice what a single costs, the better"? And, were the fares to
be simplified, which way round do we think it would be?

Regards

Jonathan Morton

David M wrote:

 > "Naw."  (not even "Naw, /sorry/", sheesh..)
 >

> So I had to buy another single back, effectively just about doubling the 
> cost of my round trip.
> 
> Was the ticket clerk telling the truth, or just being too lazy to look
> up the fare difference?


Naw, it's the truth. Officially a single cannot be excessed to a return. 
Quite handily, these ATOC regulations have been applied to Fujitsu's 
STAR system so this cannot be done via normal methods.

There are ways around it (as has been mentioned) but the rules do not 
allow for this.

This is nothing to do with 'customer service' but simply to avoid 
unstamped tickets being picked up from the floor and re-used. Common 
business sense.

-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

In message <4nZNe.60150$uo4.1454@fe01.news.easynews.com>, at 11:15:14 on 
Sun, 21 Aug 2005, The Doctor  remarked:

>This is nothing to do with 'customer service' but simply to avoid 
>unstamped tickets being picked up from the floor and re-used. Common 
>business sense.


But once again it demonstrates the "presumption of guilt" which riddles 
the railway system, presumably from its days in public ownership.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 12:26:13 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

> But once again it demonstrates the "presumption of guilt" which riddles 
> the railway system, presumably from its days in public ownership.


The Doctor's answer does, but I do not believe the principle I
enunciated does.

If one buys a single and uses it, the contract has been fulfilled, and
the ticket is no longer valid. If one buys a single and before finishing
using it (i.e. before starting the journey, or while in transit) decides
it would be nice to have it excessed to a discounted return, then I
would expect the railway to be only too happy to do so.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632809.html
(31 311 at Reading, Jul 1985)

In message <vodftpsocbne.1r1tzmwz0onbq$.dlg@40tude.net>, at 12:40:23 on 
Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Chris Tolley  remarked:

>> But once again it demonstrates the "presumption of guilt" which riddles
>> the railway system, presumably from its days in public ownership.
>
>The Doctor's answer does, but I do not believe the principle I
>enunciated does.
>
>If one buys a single and uses it, the contract has been fulfilled, and
>the ticket is no longer valid. If one buys a single and before finishing
>using it (i.e. before starting the journey, or while in transit) decides
>it would be nice to have it excessed to a discounted return, then I
>would expect the railway to be only too happy to do so.


I hadn't appreciated the subtlety regarding timing, but even so it must 
be possible to have a used single and a receipt (or other evidence) that 
it's yours and not picked up off the floor. If you've not used the 
ticket at all, I suppose they'd want you to get a refund, and rebook. 
That raises the moral issue of refund fees. Other high street retailers 
don't get away with these.
-- 
Roland Perry

We are so fond of these high street analogies aren't we? Suppose
Sainsbury's are selling trifles on a '3 for the price of 2' basis.
I buy one and eat it, then decide it's so nice I'd quite like another two.

Can I take back my empty pot and insist they sell me another
two for the price of one?

Charlie

In message <1b%Ne.13963$wh6.4691@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>, at 13:18:53 on 
Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Charlie Hulme  remarked:

>We are so fond of these high street analogies aren't we? Suppose
>Sainsbury's are selling trifles on a '3 for the price of 2' basis.
>I buy one and eat it, then decide it's so nice I'd quite like another two.
>
>Can I take back my empty pot and insist they sell me another
>two for the price of one?


Perhaps not, but if you go into a shop and buy a T-shirt, then before 
opening the packet see they have the T-shirt in packs of two for just 
slightly more than the one; you can take the first one back and buy the 
second.
-- 
Roland Perry

The staff are getting worse.
When I was in Inverness on Tuesday, and returning home, I went to put my 
large suitcase in the left luggage lockers for a few hours so I could 
meet some friends.
So I stroll over to the man at the Luggage Office desk, and the first 
thing he said to me (in a very rude tone, and before I had the chance to 
say anything) was "Do I bother you when you're having your lunch".
After explaining I'd like to leave my bag for a few hours, he eventually 
got up, and I had to put it in the locker. This was of course after he'd 
made some more protesting noises.
Not a shining example of public service, in fact a very piss poor one.
By the way, when he said "lunch", the time was only 1050, and he was 
sitting reading the Daily Record, eating a sandwich.
When I returned about 3 hours later, he was still reading the paper, and 
munching on a Mars bar!
He made similar protestations about having to leave the essential work 
of reading the paper.
Serves me right about being as indignant as to actually bother him to do 
his job for the 2nd time that day.
I thought about reporting him, but I was rather tired (having been up 
since 3am), and didn't want the hassle.
-- 
Regards,

James Christie

"Luck is my middle name," he said, indistinctly.
"Mind you, my first name is Bad."

"James Christie"  wrote in message 
news:UAlbMpBwqICDFwlx@christie.demon.co.uk...

> The staff are getting worse.
> When I was in Inverness on Tuesday, and returning home, I went to put my 
> large suitcase in the left luggage lockers for a few hours so I could meet 
> some friends.
> So I stroll over to the man at the Luggage Office desk, and the first 
> thing he said to me (in a very rude tone, and before I had the chance to 
> say anything) was "Do I bother you when you're having your lunch".
> After explaining I'd like to leave my bag for a few hours, he eventually 
> got up, and I had to put it in the locker. This was of course after he'd 
> made some more protesting noises.
> Not a shining example of public service, in fact a very piss poor one.
> By the way, when he said "lunch", the time was only 1050, and he was 
> sitting reading the Daily Record, eating a sandwich.
> When I returned about 3 hours later, he was still reading the paper, and 
> munching on a Mars bar!
> He made similar protestations about having to leave the essential work of 
> reading the paper.
> Serves me right about being as indignant as to actually bother him to do 
> his job for the 2nd time that day.
> I thought about reporting him, but I was rather tired (having been up 
> since 3am), and didn't want the hassle.
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> James Christie
>
> "Luck is my middle name," he said, indistinctly.
> "Mind you, my first name is Bad."
>
>

Report it.
You owe that to everyone.

Roland Perry wrote:


> In message <1b%Ne.13963$wh6.4691@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>, at 13:18:53 on 
> Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Charlie Hulme  remarked:
> 
>> We are so fond of these high street analogies aren't we? Suppose
>> Sainsbury's are selling trifles on a '3 for the price of 2' basis.
>> I buy one and eat it, then decide it's so nice I'd quite like another 
>> two.
>>
>> Can I take back my empty pot and insist they sell me another
>> two for the price of one?
> 
> 
> Perhaps not, but if you go into a shop and buy a T-shirt, then before 
> opening the packet see they have the T-shirt in packs of two for just 
> slightly more than the one; you can take the first one back and buy the 
> second.


But in the original case being discussed, the guy had already worn out 
the T-shirt - he'd completed his single journey.

Charlie

In message <ce0Oe.14044$wh6.2604@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>, at 14:30:32 on 
Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Charlie Hulme  remarked:

>>> We are so fond of these high street analogies aren't we? Suppose
>>> Sainsbury's are selling trifles on a '3 for the price of 2' basis.
>>> I buy one and eat it, then decide it's so nice I'd quite like 
>>>another  two.
>>>
>>> Can I take back my empty pot and insist they sell me another
>>> two for the price of one?
>>   Perhaps not, but if you go into a shop and buy a T-shirt, then 
>>before  opening the packet see they have the T-shirt in packs of two 
>>for just  slightly more than the one; you can take the first one back 
>>and buy the  second.
>
>But in the original case being discussed, the guy had already worn out 
>the T-shirt - he'd completed his single journey.


We've moved on from that, the point under discussion *now* is whether 
you should get a 100% refund for an un-used ticket, or be charged a 
cancellation fee.
-- 
Roland Perry