This is from the DB website (7 ways of buying your ticket):

Train

You may purchase your tickets on board of the train. Train attendants
sell tickets for a small extra charge. You may pay cash or by credit
card.

Ticket inspection on the train

On DB trains it is not necessary to stamp your ticket before you get on
board. Your ticket will be checked at least once per journey. You will
have to show your ticket again, if staff changes or when you change
trains. Please show your BahnCard on inspection, too. The attendant
will then stamp the ticket. The train attendant checks the code printed
on the OnlineTicket together with your OnlineTicket ID in order to
confirm that the ticket is valid. Please, always show your OnlineTicket
ID. Please always carry your ticket and your OnlineTicket ID with you
when leaving your seat.

This would suggest that in Germany they have so many ticket
inspectors/guards that they don't have a problem with fare evasion, as
even on busy suburban trains with frequent stops they can check
tickets.  Also, there seems to be the benefit of being able to buy a
ticket on the train for a small extra charge if you are in a rush
without missing your train waiting to buy a ticket like in SE England.

Richard Adamfi quoted:


> On DB trains it is not necessary to stamp your ticket before you get on
> board. Your ticket will be checked at least once per journey. 


Really? Not in my experience.

Charlie

Richard Adamfi wrote:


> This would suggest that in Germany they have so many ticket
> inspectors/guards that they don't have a problem with fare evasion, as
> even on busy suburban trains with frequent stops they can check
> tickets.  Also, there seems to be the benefit of being able to buy a
> ticket on the train for a small extra charge if you are in a rush
> without missing your train waiting to buy a ticket like in SE England.


Or if you can't be arsed to get your ticket the previous day, but are 
quite happy to get up late and then moan about waiting in a queue and 
missing your train on the day in question.

DBAG have a penalty fares system on many of their local and S-Bahn 
networks but not on their IC/ICE trains. The inspector comes around 
regularly but not on *every* journey as I noticed over the last two weeks.

Ta,
-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

>Or if you can't be arsed to get your ticket the previous day, but are
>quite happy to get up late and then moan about waiting in a queue and
>missing your train on the day in question.



You mean if the TOC can't be arsed to open the ticket office more than
a couple of hours in the morning.

"The Doctor"  wrote in message 
news:FnKNe.50305$a81.10756@fe03.news.easynews.com...

> Or if you can't be arsed to get your ticket the previous day, but are 
> quite happy to get up late and then moan about waiting in a queue and 
> missing your train on the day in question.


Which all comes down to the point about how much time one should reasonably 
allow. It simply isn't always possible to buy one's ticket the previous 
day - either because the ticket office is closed in the evening and you 
can't buy the ticket you want from the machine, or because you don't 
actually know for sure that you will be making the journey.  How much time 
do you consider reasonable? 5 minutes, 15 minutes? What about if you turn up 
prepared to use a self-service machine and these are all out of use, meaning 
you have to unexpectedly queue?  For many journeys it is often a close call 
in terms of time between train and car, and if this time is extended 
unecessarily the balance will often tip firmly away from the railway's 
favour.

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, The Doctor wrote:


> DBAG have a penalty fares system on many of their local and S-Bahn 
> networks


The S-Bahn network that I was familiar with (Munich) didn't use DB 
tickets, but MVV (joint tariff authority) tickets.  Most 
reasonably-organised travellers (if not already covered by a season 
ticket or day pass) would have strip tickets in their pocket already - 
or buying one from a vending machine etc. at some convenient moment 
would be no big deal - and wouldn't need to do anything more exciting 
and time consuming at the time of travel than counting off the 
appropriate number of strips for the proposed trip, folding the 
ticket, and sticking it into a cancelling machine.  In fact, if they'd 
taken a bus or tram to the station, they would already have stamped 
their ticket for the whole trip and wouldn't need to do *anything* 
more.

What a difference, in practical terms, from the fragmented situation 
here! 

But yes, if the passenger failed to provide themselves with a valid 
ticket and were caught, then there'd be a standard MVV penalty fare to 
pay in any case (seems to be currently 40 euro, that's 30 quid in 
round numbers), while still leaving open the possibility of 
prosecution if the authorities consider the case serious enough.[1]


> but not on their IC/ICE trains. The inspector comes around regularly 
> but not on *every* journey as I noticed over the last two weeks.


Right, that's different.  And admittedly there's still some 
awkwardness involved in journeys which are partly in a joint tariff 
area and partly outside.

ttfn

[1] some commuters who lived further out, reckoned they could save 
money by travelling ticketless, and paying the penalty in cash, 
without identifying themselves, when caught. But often the same ticket 
inspection team would catch them repeatedly, and get to know their 
faces.  Then they'd be likely to be reported for prosecution.

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, The Doctor wrote:
>
> > DBAG have a penalty fares system on many of their local and S-Bahn
> > networks
>
> The S-Bahn network that I was familiar with (Munich) didn't use DB
> tickets, but MVV (joint tariff authority) tickets.  Most
> reasonably-organised travellers (if not already covered by a season
> ticket or day pass) would have strip tickets in their pocket already -
> or buying one from a vending machine etc. at some convenient moment
> would be no big deal - and wouldn't need to do anything more exciting
> and time consuming at the time of travel than counting off the
> appropriate number of strips for the proposed trip, folding the
> ticket, and sticking it into a cancelling machine.  In fact, if they'd
> taken a bus or tram to the station, they would already have stamped
> their ticket for the whole trip and wouldn't need to do *anything*
> more.
>


So why does the DB website state that you can buy tickets on the train?
 It should mention that the policy doesn't necessarily apply to S-Bahn
(which is still a DB service)

On 20 Aug 2005 10:35:39 -0700, "Richard Adamfi"
 wrote:


>Subject: Are penalty fares really necessary?

>On DB trains [...] Your ticket will be checked at least once per journey.


You provide the answer to your own question. On some services in this
country (e.g. Silverlink Metro) you can replace "at least once" with
"at most 0 times".

In message <de7tnm$7vu$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, at 19:45:14 on Sat, 20 
Aug 2005, David Splett  remarked:

>It simply isn't always possible to buy one's ticket the previous
>day - either because the ticket office is closed in the evening and you
>can't buy the ticket you want from the machine, or because you don't
>actually know for sure that you will be making the journey.


Or because you don't have any plans to be anywhere near the railway 
station on the previous day. I'm going to London tomorrow morning, and 
have no plans to make a special trip into town to buy a ticket today.
-- 
Roland Perry

MIG wrote:


>>Or if you can't be arsed to get your ticket the previous day, but are
>>quite happy to get up late and then moan about waiting in a queue and
>>missing your train on the day in question.
> 
> You mean if the TOC can't be arsed to open the ticket office more than
> a couple of hours in the morning.


My station is open 06:10 - 22:30 and still the above situation occurs 
every single day.

-- 
Rob
http://www.uicstock.org.uk/
To reply, remove zudo

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:44:16 GMT, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>Richard Adamfi quoted:
>
>> On DB trains it is not necessary to stamp your ticket before you get on
>> board. Your ticket will be checked at least once per journey. 
>
>Really? Not in my experience.


Nor mine.  Indeed, for those who don't hold seasons (and it's vastly
more common in Germany for people to hold seasons than in the UK,
especially in the Verkehrsverbuende), the driver-only operated
regional DMUs may as well be free of charge[1].  The same applies to
city underground systems - you will get checked from time to time, but
by no means frequently.

DB also has a penalty fare that was DM60, not sure what it is in EUR,
which is levied if you don't make yourself known to the guard at the
earliest opportunity after boarding the train if you don't hold a
ticket.  A similar PF exists on U- and S-Bahn, but for anyone without
a ticket.

[1] Drivers are supposed to sell tickets but they usually don't, and
it's presumably cheaper to lose those fares than it is to pay a guard.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On 20 Aug 2005 13:27:27 -0700, "Richard Adamfi"
 wrote:


>So why does the DB website state that you can buy tickets on the train?
> It should mention that the policy doesn't necessarily apply to S-Bahn
>(which is still a DB service)


It doesn't apply to any journeys within the Verkehrsverbuende,
generally speaking.  DB have no control at all over fares policy for
travel entirely within these areas.

Why the website is wrong I'm not sure.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.