Hi,

I broke down this morning on the M6 around J19/18, complete with young
family - not very pleasant, but at least the tow truck arrived pretty
quickly.

Does anybody have any idea of what's actually wrong with my car -
description below:

I'd been driving along at the speed limit for a while before the traffic
slowed to a stop. When it started again I managed to stall. I re-heated the
glow plugs and fired up, but found myself with very little power. I
struggled to get to 45 ish in third and then noticed the temperature gauge
was at the very highest point. All this occurred within the space of a
minute or so. I find it hard to believe that I didn't notice the gauge
rising prior to stalling, but I might have missed it. I can't help thinking
that stalling had triggered it.

I pulled over and stopped the engine and tried re-starting just in case it
was some sort of funny ECU thing. The gauge still read very high and the
engine again lacked power.

Having called for help and waited for 5-10minutes, I tried the engine
again - this time the gauge read normal and power seemed to have returned.
Having been towed home, the car seems to be ok.

Car is 52 plate Mondeo TDCI 130 LX.

Thanks,

Andy.

-- 
PLEASE remove spam_off to reply

> I'd been driving along at the speed limit for a while before the traffic
> slowed to a stop. When it started again I managed to stall. I re-heated the
> glow plugs and fired up, but found myself with very little power. I
> struggled to get to 45 ish in third and then noticed the temperature gauge
> was at the very highest point.


I`m not a mechanic by a long shot, but the first thing i`d check would 
be for a stuck thermostat... lets see if the panel agree :-}

"Andy Evans"  wrote in message 
news:de7j2f$svh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Hi,
>
> I broke down this morning on the M6 around J19/18, complete with young
> family - not very pleasant, but at least the tow truck arrived pretty
> quickly.
>
> Does anybody have any idea of what's actually wrong with my car -
> description below:
>
> I'd been driving along at the speed limit for a while before the traffic
> slowed to a stop. When it started again I managed to stall. I re-heated 
> the
> glow plugs and fired up, but found myself with very little power. I
> struggled to get to 45 ish in third and then noticed the temperature gauge
> was at the very highest point. All this occurred within the space of a
> minute or so. I find it hard to believe that I didn't notice the gauge
> rising prior to stalling, but I might have missed it. I can't help 
> thinking
> that stalling had triggered it.
>
> I pulled over and stopped the engine and tried re-starting just in case it
> was some sort of funny ECU thing. The gauge still read very high and the
> engine again lacked power.
>
> Having called for help and waited for 5-10minutes, I tried the engine
> again - this time the gauge read normal and power seemed to have returned.
> Having been towed home, the car seems to be ok.
>
> Car is 52 plate Mondeo TDCI 130 LX.


The lack of power would be caused by the high temp seen by the ECU.
These engines go into reduced power mode during overheating.

First thing to establish is whether the engine is actually overheating.
If it is overheating, then that's the problem.
If it isn't overheating, then chances are it's a faulty cylinder head 
temperature sensor. This screws directly into the cylinder, and has a 
deformable tip. When you screw them in, the tip off the sensor makes contact 
against the alloy off the cylinder head, and the tip gets compressed as it's 
fully tightened in. These can only ever be fitted once.
It is mounted on the right hand side (standing at the front looking under 
the bonnet) off the cylinder head, and has a lead coming from it with about 
6 inches of wire, finishing in a plug. I think you have to remove a drive 
pulley to get proper acess to the actual sensor, but the plug is eaily 
reached.
These are quite a common failure point, but the ones I've seen have all went 
short circuit, causing the temp gauge to read permanently high, and 
sometimes to cause the ecu to stop the engine. It may be that yours is 
starting to fail.
If it does show permanent overheating, easiest temporary fix is to unplug 
it. That way the ecu takes a default temp off around 60deg, which is 
sufficient for normal running.

Moray,

<snip>

> The lack of power would be caused by the high temp seen by the ECU.
> These engines go into reduced power mode during overheating.
>
> <snip>
 reached.
> These are quite a common failure point, but the ones I've seen have all
went
> short circuit, causing the temp gauge to read permanently high, and
> sometimes to cause the ecu to stop the engine. It may be that yours is
> starting to fail.


All sounds plausible and would explain why I didn't notice the temp gauge
rising. In fact the gauge was at full scale deflection suggesting a short on
the sensor. I did wonder if the ECU had gone into some form of 'limp home
mode' as you described.

I think the car may have become a little hotter than normal and induced the
temporary sensor failure. Once cooled, back to normal until the next time.
Fingers crossed that this really is the case. To be honest, I've lost faith
in the car - I had to have it re-programmed a few months ago and now this.
Maybe time for a Honda Accord.

I'm off to the Ford garage on Monday since the car still has a couple of
months of manufacturers warranty left to run. Will the ECU record data such
as the temperature sensor's input? In particular, will it record the speed
of the apparent rise? If so, it should be easier to diagnose, I don't want
the 'we can't replicate the fault sir' situation to arrise.


> If it does show permanent overheating, easiest temporary fix is to unplug
> it. That way the ecu takes a default temp off around 60deg, which is
> sufficient for normal running.
>


Thanks for the above, at least I've a way of sorting it should it happen
again. If I'd had the presence of mind, I'd have checked the radiator
temperature by hand and also watched to see if the temp gauge suddenly
dropped or cooled gently back to normal.

One thing I fogot to mention is that whilst we were being rescued from the
M6 a chap stopped just in front of us and talked to our rescuer. I assumed
he'd just broken down as well - but no, he was asking for directions to
London - unbelievable! He nearly caused an accident when he pulled abruptly
back onto the motorway.

Thanks for the information - at least it all sounds fixable, assuming it
hasn't actually overheated.

Andy.

-- 
PLEASE remove spam_off to reply


>

"Andy Evans"  wrote in message 
news:de84dl$m2b$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

<Re: Mondeo TDCi 130>


> Thanks for the information - at least it all sounds fixable, assuming it
> hasn't actually overheated.


Apart from this problem, how have you found the car overall - I'm thinking 
of buying one imminently you see, specifically a TDCi 130, amongst other 
things. :-)

TIA

-- 
JackH

"Moray Cuthill"  wrote in message 
news:4307829c@news.greennet.net...

>
> "Andy Evans"  wrote in message 
> news:de7j2f$svh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I broke down this morning on the M6 around J19/18, complete with young
>> family - not very pleasant, but at least the tow truck arrived pretty
>> quickly.
>>
>> Does anybody have any idea of what's actually wrong with my car -
>> description below:
>>
>> I'd been driving along at the speed limit for a while before the traffic
>> slowed to a stop. When it started again I managed to stall. I re-heated 
>> the
>> glow plugs and fired up, but found myself with very little power. I
>> struggled to get to 45 ish in third and then noticed the temperature 
>> gauge
>> was at the very highest point. All this occurred within the space of a
>> minute or so. I find it hard to believe that I didn't notice the gauge
>> rising prior to stalling, but I might have missed it. I can't help 
>> thinking
>> that stalling had triggered it.
>>
>> I pulled over and stopped the engine and tried re-starting just in case 
>> it
>> was some sort of funny ECU thing. The gauge still read very high and the
>> engine again lacked power.
>>
>> Having called for help and waited for 5-10minutes, I tried the engine
>> again - this time the gauge read normal and power seemed to have 
>> returned.
>> Having been towed home, the car seems to be ok.
>>
>> Car is 52 plate Mondeo TDCI 130 LX.
>
> The lack of power would be caused by the high temp seen by the ECU.
> These engines go into reduced power mode during overheating.
>
> First thing to establish is whether the engine is actually overheating.
> If it is overheating, then that's the problem.
> If it isn't overheating, then chances are it's a faulty cylinder head 
> temperature sensor. This screws directly into the cylinder, and has a 
> deformable tip. When you screw them in, the tip off the sensor makes 
> contact against the alloy off the cylinder head, and the tip gets 
> compressed as it's fully tightened in. These can only ever be fitted once.
> It is mounted on the right hand side (standing at the front looking under 
> the bonnet) off the cylinder head, and has a lead coming from it with 
> about 6 inches of wire, finishing in a plug. I think you have to remove a 
> drive pulley to get proper acess to the actual sensor, but the plug is 
> eaily reached.
> These are quite a common failure point, but the ones I've seen have all 
> went short circuit, causing the temp gauge to read permanently high, and 
> sometimes to cause the ecu to stop the engine. It may be that yours is 
> starting to fail.
> If it does show permanent overheating, easiest temporary fix is to unplug 
> it. That way the ecu takes a default temp off around 60deg, which is 
> sufficient for normal running.

more than likely
the vast majority of cars now will go into limp home mode, especially if 
they have fly by wire throttles
no matter how much you press the pedal, the ecu won't allow the tps to do 
anything other than maintain idle
it should (possibly) have an over heating light come on the dash, once this 
is extinguished the power delivery returns to normal

Hi Jack,

"JackH"  wrote in message
news:3mq2o8F188i3fU1@individual.net...

>
> "Andy Evans"  wrote in message
> news:de84dl$m2b$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> <Re: Mondeo TDCi 130>
>
> > Thanks for the information - at least it all sounds fixable, assuming it
> > hasn't actually overheated.
>
> Apart from this problem, how have you found the car overall - I'm thinking
> of buying one imminently you see, specifically a TDCi 130, amongst other
> things. :-)


I really quite like it. Mondeo Mk3s handle really well and the 130 goes
really well, I'm glad I didn't just go for the 115. I've only got the LX
spec, but it has everything I need - including four electric windows, air
con, elec mirrors,CD etc.I didn't fancy paying an extra 1k for the zetec
spec just to get alloys and front fogs. When I've checked the MPG I've got
about 47 on A roads.

On the down side, I find the clutch a bit snatchy and my wife has moaned a
bit about not being comfortable in the passenger seat. I've also had a
little water ingress through the rear doors - only a small amount and only
in heavy rain. It also seems to suffer slightly from wind noise through one
of the rear windows.

Other than the re-programming and this breakdown I'm pretty satisified. Ford
have been good with the little warranty work that's been required so far,
i.e. the re-programming and a new windscreen since some of the heated
elements had failed. I just hope this continues when I pop it back in on
Monday, especially has I've just had it serviced at an independent garage
using Ford parts.

HTH,

Andy.

-- 
PLEASE remove spam_off to reply



>
> TIA
>
> -- 
> JackH
>
>

In article <de9o8a$5ke$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, 
andy@evansbromyard.spam_offfreeserve.co.uk says...

> Hi Jack,
> 
> "JackH"  wrote in message
> news:3mq2o8F188i3fU1@individual.net...
> >
> > "Andy Evans"  wrote in message
> > news:de84dl$m2b$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > <Re: Mondeo TDCi 130>
> >
> > > Thanks for the information - at least it all sounds fixable, assuming it
> > > hasn't actually overheated.
> >
> > Apart from this problem, how have you found the car overall - I'm thinking
> > of buying one imminently you see, specifically a TDCi 130, amongst other
> > things. :-)
> 
> I really quite like it. Mondeo Mk3s handle really well and the 130 goes
> really well, I'm glad I didn't just go for the 115. I've only got the LX
> spec, but it has everything I need - including four electric windows, air
> con, elec mirrors,CD etc.I didn't fancy paying an extra £1k for the zetec
> spec just to get alloys and front fogs.


Better seats, and an MP3 player. Plus climate control and better 
suspension.


> When I've checked the MPG I've got
> about 47 on A roads.
> 
> On the down side, I find the clutch a bit snatchy 


You, me & everyone else


> and my wife has moaned a
> bit about not being comfortable in the passenger seat.


This is odd. The Ghia (don't know about the LX) has the same adjustments as 
the drivers seat.

OTOH, if it's the back of her legs, it's because the LX has got seats with 
shorter squabs, which can be uncomfortable.


> I've also had a
> little water ingress through the rear doors - only a small amount and only
> in heavy rain. It also seems to suffer slightly from wind noise through one
> of the rear windows.


Again, you, me & everyone else. It's actually one of the biggest failings 
of the Mk3 Mondeo.

I certainly like mine.

Pete.

-- 
NOTE! Email address is spamtrapped. Any email will be deleted
Remove the news and underscore from my address to reply by mail

"Andy Evans"  wrote in message
news:defmrc$jl0$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

>
>
> "Moray Cuthill"  wrote in message
> news:4307829c@news.greennet.net...
> >
> > "Andy Evans"  wrote in
message
> > news:de7j2f$svh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> <snip>> > Car is 52 plate Mondeo TDCI 130 LX.
> >
> > The lack of power would be caused by the high temp seen by the ECU.
> > These engines go into reduced power mode during overheating.
> >
> > First thing to establish is whether the engine is actually overheating.
> > If it is overheating, then that's the problem.
> > If it isn't overheating, then chances are it's a fault
>
> Actually, the diagnosis is a failed water pump. Apparently the splines
have
> worn (I assume these are the bits that actually move the water), so if
given
> some welly the cooling doesn't keep up. Should be under Ford warranty -
but
> I'll know for sure tomorrow. I hope this isn't going to lead to cylinder
> head problems?



The impeller is plastic and they do occasionally fall off the shaft, but
i've not heard of any fauilures on the TDCI engine til now!

Some VAG cars are a different matter though!

Tim..

"Tim.."  wrote in message
news:deft0p$av9$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
<snip> >

> > Actually, the diagnosis is a failed water pump. Apparently the splines
> have
> > worn (I assume these are the bits that actually move the water), so if
> given
> > some welly the cooling doesn't keep up. Should be under Ford warranty -
> but


Actually it's not the impellar - but the drive spline to the pump from the
power steering pump - all mangled and not driving -  after only 35k miles.

Still, all resolved through the last few months of my Ford warranty.

Andy.

>




> Tim..
>
>

"Moray Cuthill"  wrote in message
news:4307829c@news.greennet.net...

>
> "Andy Evans"  wrote in message
> news:de7j2f$svh$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Hi,
> >

<snip>> > Car is 52 plate Mondeo TDCI 130 LX.

>
> The lack of power would be caused by the high temp seen by the ECU.
> These engines go into reduced power mode during overheating.
>
> First thing to establish is whether the engine is actually overheating.
> If it is overheating, then that's the problem.
> If it isn't overheating, then chances are it's a fault


Actually, the diagnosis is a failed water pump. Apparently the splines have
worn (I assume these are the bits that actually move the water), so if given
some welly the cooling doesn't keep up. Should be under Ford warranty - but
I'll know for sure tomorrow. I hope this isn't going to lead to cylinder
head problems?

Andy.