Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last week. 
2 things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:

(1) Drove car around 15 miles on very twisty roads, lots of steep 
hairpin bends. Steering felt fine. Parked to have a nose round some 
shops and noticed the front n/s tyre was soft, but not totally flat. 
Came back to the car about an hour later and as the tyre was not visibly 
any flatter I tried driving the car round the corner to the office of 
the hire company to see if they would sort it out. The steering felt 
very heavy, in both directions - then I noticed a red steering wheel 
icon shining from the dashboard. A quick ferret in the handbook 
confirmed that this was the electrical powering steering failure warning 
light. The hire company were totally useless for reasons I won't go 
into, so I changed the wheel (for a spacesaver - yuch!) and when I 
started off again, the red steering wheel icon had gone out, and the car 
steered normally (aside from being a bit light on one lock due to the 
spacesaver). Question is - can anyone explain why the power steering 
stopped working and then righted itself? Is it a Fiat safety feature to 
disable the power steering if the tyre is a bit flat, perhaps only when 
you stop the car for safety reasons?

(2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross country" - 
well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply 
uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was getting a 
bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red. 
Ambient temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not dishing 
out any cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or 
perhaps there is a device which cuts the air con when the engine temp 
goes too high. Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of 
relief), and turned left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear. The 
engine just bogged down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more 
revs and let the clutch in again - same result, it just bogged down and 
then stalled. I dropped back down the hill to a convenient spot and 
waited a couple of minutes with the engine running, figuring it would 
cool faster with the water pump running than without. Tried again and it 
seemed to pull better, but not well - I kept my foot down on the 
throttle then it gradually picked up and eventually returned to normal. 
Question is - why did this  happen? Is this a safety feature to prevent 
engine damage, perhaps the ECU limits the power to reduce overheating - 
in which case I'll be avoiding Fiats completely in future because it's a 
bloody dangerous feature! Or perhaps the temp gauge was under-reading?

I'm beginning to wonder if manufacturers are getting just too clever (or 
is that not clever enough?) with ECU equipped cars, having found my 
Zafira got stuck in the sand two years ago because the Traction Control 
wouldn't allow the wheels to spin off the loose sand in order to get 
down to the firm stuff underneath.

Biggles

The message <de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
from Biggles  contains
these words:


> I'm beginning to wonder if manufacturers are getting just too clever (or 
> is that not clever enough?) with ECU equipped cars, having found my 
> Zafira got stuck in the sand two years ago because the Traction Control 
> wouldn't allow the wheels to spin off the loose sand in order to get 
> down to the firm stuff underneath.


A friend of mine hates the traction control on his Disco for the same reasons.

-- 
Skipweasel.
In the beginning was the word.
And the word was Aardvark.

<snip>

> I'm beginning to wonder if manufacturers are getting just too clever (or
> is that not clever enough?) with ECU equipped cars, having found my
> Zafira got stuck in the sand two years ago because the Traction Control
> wouldn't allow the wheels to spin off the loose sand in order to get
> down to the firm stuff underneath.


Or of course it could be the electric-hydraulic power steering the punto has
was dodgy and the rest of the car suffered with lack of maintainence, like
many 'non-mainstream' hire cars.  The Punto does not have an unblemished
reliability record.

I suggest that the next time you hire abroad you choose the VW Polo on the
hire fleet, or hire through one of the big hire chains.

Artie

"Biggles"  wrote in message 
news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last week. 2 
> things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:
>
>
> (2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross country" - 
> well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply 
> uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was getting a 
> bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red. Ambient 
> temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not dishing out any 
> cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or perhaps there 
> is a device which cuts the air con when the engine temp goes too high. 
> Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of relief), and turned 
> left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear. The engine just bogged 
> down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more revs and let the clutch 
> in again - same result, it just bogged down and then stalled. I dropped 
> back down the hill to a convenient spot and waited a couple of minutes 
> with the engine running, figuring it would cool faster with the water pump 
> running than without. Tried again and it seemed to pull better, but not 
> well - I kept my foot down on the throttle then it gradually picked up and 
> eventually returned to normal. Question is - why did this  happen? Is this 
> a safety feature to prevent engine damage, perhaps the ECU limits the 
> power to reduce overheating - in which case I'll be avoiding Fiats 
> completely in future because it's a bloody dangerous feature! Or perhaps 
> the temp gauge was under-reading?
>


You haven't mentioned the altitude at which this happened. Perhaps the air 
was rather thin there and this commonly results in a sharp decrease in power 
from naturally aspirated engines.

Huw

Arturo Ui wrote:

> <snip>
> 
>>I'm beginning to wonder if manufacturers are getting just too clever (or
>>is that not clever enough?) with ECU equipped cars, having found my
>>Zafira got stuck in the sand two years ago because the Traction Control
>>wouldn't allow the wheels to spin off the loose sand in order to get
>>down to the firm stuff underneath.
> 
> 
> Or of course it could be the electric-hydraulic power steering the punto has
> was dodgy and the rest of the car suffered with lack of maintainence, like
> many 'non-mainstream' hire cars.  The Punto does not have an unblemished
> reliability record.
> 
> I suggest that the next time you hire abroad you choose the VW Polo on the
> hire fleet, or hire through one of the big hire chains.
> 
> Artie
> 
> 

Polo wasn't an option, and they don't come much bigger than AVIS do they?

Biggles

Huw wrote:

> "Biggles"  wrote in message 
> news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> 
>>Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last week. 2 
>>things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:
>>
>>
>>(2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross country" - 
>>well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply 
>>uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was getting a 
>>bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red. Ambient 
>>temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not dishing out any 
>>cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or perhaps there 
>>is a device which cuts the air con when the engine temp goes too high. 
>>Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of relief), and turned 
>>left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear. The engine just bogged 
>>down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more revs and let the clutch 
>>in again - same result, it just bogged down and then stalled. I dropped 
>>back down the hill to a convenient spot and waited a couple of minutes 
>>with the engine running, figuring it would cool faster with the water pump 
>>running than without. Tried again and it seemed to pull better, but not 
>>well - I kept my foot down on the throttle then it gradually picked up and 
>>eventually returned to normal. Question is - why did this  happen? Is this 
>>a safety feature to prevent engine damage, perhaps the ECU limits the 
>>power to reduce overheating - in which case I'll be avoiding Fiats 
>>completely in future because it's a bloody dangerous feature! Or perhaps 
>>the temp gauge was under-reading?
>>
> 
> 
> You haven't mentioned the altitude at which this happened. Perhaps the air 
> was rather thin there and this commonly results in a sharp decrease in power 
> from naturally aspirated engines.
> 
> Huw 
> 

Interesting thought. We were on the island of Samos - couldn't have been 
more that 1200 metres, which is the  max altitude of the bit we were 
driving in. I don't see how that would explain how the problem resolved 
itself? BTW when I said "dropped back down the hill" it was 40 metres or so.

Biggles

"Biggles"  wrote in message 
news:de74ke$g8t$1@newsm1.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Huw wrote:
>> "Biggles"  wrote in 
>> message news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>>>Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last week. 2 
>>>things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:
>>>
>>>
>>>(2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross country" - 
>>>well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply 
>>>uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was getting a 
>>>bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red. 
>>>Ambient temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not dishing 
>>>out any cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or 
>>>perhaps there is a device which cuts the air con when the engine temp 
>>>goes too high. Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of 
>>>relief), and turned left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear. The 
>>>engine just bogged down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more revs 
>>>and let the clutch in again - same result, it just bogged down and then 
>>>stalled. I dropped back down the hill to a convenient spot and waited a 
>>>couple of minutes with the engine running, figuring it would cool faster 
>>>with the water pump running than without. Tried again and it seemed to 
>>>pull better, but not well - I kept my foot down on the throttle then it 
>>>gradually picked up and eventually returned to normal. Question is - why 
>>>did this  happen? Is this a safety feature to prevent engine damage, 
>>>perhaps the ECU limits the power to reduce overheating - in which case 
>>>I'll be avoiding Fiats completely in future because it's a bloody 
>>>dangerous feature! Or perhaps the temp gauge was under-reading?
>>>
>>
>>
>> You haven't mentioned the altitude at which this happened. Perhaps the 
>> air was rather thin there and this commonly results in a sharp decrease 
>> in power from naturally aspirated engines.
>>
>> Huw
> Interesting thought. We were on the island of Samos - couldn't have been 
> more that 1200 metres, which is the  max altitude of the bit we were 
> driving in. I don't see how that would explain how the problem resolved 
> itself? BTW when I said "dropped back down the hill" it was 40 metres or 
> so.
>
> Biggles


1200 metres is quite high. The engine probably ran too rich and what you 
experienced was similar to running an engine with too much choke, coughing 
and spluttering cured for a few moments by a quick blow-out and a few  revs.

Huw

Huw wrote:

> "Biggles"  wrote in message 
> news:de74ke$g8t$1@newsm1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> 
>>Huw wrote:
>>
>>>"Biggles"  wrote in 
>>>message news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last week. 2 
>>>>things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>(2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross country" - 
>>>>well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply 
>>>>uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was getting a 
>>>>bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red. 
>>>>Ambient temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not dishing 
>>>>out any cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or 
>>>>perhaps there is a device which cuts the air con when the engine temp 
>>>>goes too high. Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of 
>>>>relief), and turned left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear. The 
>>>>engine just bogged down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more revs 
>>>>and let the clutch in again - same result, it just bogged down and then 
>>>>stalled. I dropped back down the hill to a convenient spot and waited a 
>>>>couple of minutes with the engine running, figuring it would cool faster 
>>>>with the water pump running than without. Tried again and it seemed to 
>>>>pull better, but not well - I kept my foot down on the throttle then it 
>>>>gradually picked up and eventually returned to normal. Question is - why 
>>>>did this  happen? Is this a safety feature to prevent engine damage, 
>>>>perhaps the ECU limits the power to reduce overheating - in which case 
>>>>I'll be avoiding Fiats completely in future because it's a bloody 
>>>>dangerous feature! Or perhaps the temp gauge was under-reading?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You haven't mentioned the altitude at which this happened. Perhaps the 
>>>air was rather thin there and this commonly results in a sharp decrease 
>>>in power from naturally aspirated engines.
>>>
>>>Huw
>>
>>Interesting thought. We were on the island of Samos - couldn't have been 
>>more that 1200 metres, which is the  max altitude of the bit we were 
>>driving in. I don't see how that would explain how the problem resolved 
>>itself? BTW when I said "dropped back down the hill" it was 40 metres or 
>>so.
>>
>>Biggles
> 
> 
> 1200 metres is quite high. The engine probably ran too rich and what you 
> experienced was similar to running an engine with too much choke, coughing 
> and spluttering cured for a few moments by a quick blow-out and a few  revs.
> 
> Huw 
> 

Your explanation sounds plausible, although I didn't detect the normal 
signs of rich running (lumpiness, misfiring etc) just lack of power. I 
thought engine management systems were supposed to be able to cope with 
this - the Lamda sensor should provide continuous feedback to correct 
the mixture? I suspect you are right though, I managed to take the car 
outside of the parameters it had been programmed for. I'm just glad I 
wasn't stuck halfway round a steep hairpin bend when the engine decided 
it wasn't going to play ball.

Biggles

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3mojk1F17r13rU1@individual.net...

>
> "Biggles"  wrote in
message
> news:de74ke$g8t$1@newsm1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Huw wrote:
> >> "Biggles"  wrote in
> >> message news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >>
> >>>Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last week.
2
> >>>things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>(2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross country" -
> >>>well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply
> >>>uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was getting a
> >>>bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red.
> >>>Ambient temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not
dishing
> >>>out any cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or
> >>>perhaps there is a device which cuts the air con when the engine temp
> >>>goes too high. Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of
> >>>relief), and turned left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear. The
> >>>engine just bogged down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more
revs
> >>>and let the clutch in again - same result, it just bogged down and then
> >>>stalled. I dropped back down the hill to a convenient spot and waited a
> >>>couple of minutes with the engine running, figuring it would cool
faster
> >>>with the water pump running than without. Tried again and it seemed to
> >>>pull better, but not well - I kept my foot down on the throttle then it
> >>>gradually picked up and eventually returned to normal. Question is -
why
> >>>did this  happen? Is this a safety feature to prevent engine damage,
> >>>perhaps the ECU limits the power to reduce overheating - in which case
> >>>I'll be avoiding Fiats completely in future because it's a bloody
> >>>dangerous feature! Or perhaps the temp gauge was under-reading?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> You haven't mentioned the altitude at which this happened. Perhaps the
> >> air was rather thin there and this commonly results in a sharp decrease
> >> in power from naturally aspirated engines.
> >>
> >> Huw
> > Interesting thought. We were on the island of Samos - couldn't have been
> > more that 1200 metres, which is the  max altitude of the bit we were
> > driving in. I don't see how that would explain how the problem resolved
> > itself? BTW when I said "dropped back down the hill" it was 40 metres or
> > so.
> >
> > Biggles
>
> 1200 metres is quite high. The engine probably ran too rich and what you
> experienced was similar to running an engine with too much choke, coughing
> and spluttering cured for a few moments by a quick blow-out and a few
revs.
>


Erm we havent been using carbs for almost a decade now!

Altitude compensation is one of the most fundemental atributes of a fuel
injection system.

Tim..

"Tim.."  wrote in message 
news:de7r2c$2eb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3mojk1F17r13rU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Biggles"  wrote in
> message
>> news:de74ke$g8t$1@newsm1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> > Huw wrote:
>> >> "Biggles"  wrote in
>> >> message news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> >>
>> >>>Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last 
>> >>>week.
> 2
>> >>>things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>(2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross country" -
>> >>>well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply
>> >>>uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was getting 
>> >>>a
>> >>>bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red.
>> >>>Ambient temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not
> dishing
>> >>>out any cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or
>> >>>perhaps there is a device which cuts the air con when the engine temp
>> >>>goes too high. Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of
>> >>>relief), and turned left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear. 
>> >>>The
>> >>>engine just bogged down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more
> revs
>> >>>and let the clutch in again - same result, it just bogged down and 
>> >>>then
>> >>>stalled. I dropped back down the hill to a convenient spot and waited 
>> >>>a
>> >>>couple of minutes with the engine running, figuring it would cool
> faster
>> >>>with the water pump running than without. Tried again and it seemed to
>> >>>pull better, but not well - I kept my foot down on the throttle then 
>> >>>it
>> >>>gradually picked up and eventually returned to normal. Question is -
> why
>> >>>did this  happen? Is this a safety feature to prevent engine damage,
>> >>>perhaps the ECU limits the power to reduce overheating - in which case
>> >>>I'll be avoiding Fiats completely in future because it's a bloody
>> >>>dangerous feature! Or perhaps the temp gauge was under-reading?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You haven't mentioned the altitude at which this happened. Perhaps the
>> >> air was rather thin there and this commonly results in a sharp 
>> >> decrease
>> >> in power from naturally aspirated engines.
>> >>
>> >> Huw
>> > Interesting thought. We were on the island of Samos - couldn't have 
>> > been
>> > more that 1200 metres, which is the  max altitude of the bit we were
>> > driving in. I don't see how that would explain how the problem resolved
>> > itself? BTW when I said "dropped back down the hill" it was 40 metres 
>> > or
>> > so.
>> >
>> > Biggles
>>
>> 1200 metres is quite high. The engine probably ran too rich and what you
>> experienced was similar to running an engine with too much choke, 
>> coughing
>> and spluttering cured for a few moments by a quick blow-out and a few
> revs.
>>
>
> Erm we havent been using carbs for almost a decade now!
>
> Altitude compensation is one of the most fundemental atributes of a fuel
> injection system.
>
> Tim..
>
>


It can only compensate by lowering fuel injection and power to a point 
unless the engine is turbocharged.

Huw

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3mpbabF17qpf6U1@individual.net...

>
> "Tim.."  wrote in message
> news:de7r2c$2eb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> >
> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:3mojk1F17r13rU1@individual.net...
> >>
> >> "Biggles"  wrote in
> > message
> >> news:de74ke$g8t$1@newsm1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> > Huw wrote:
> >> >> "Biggles"  wrote in
> >> >> message news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> >>
> >> >>>Hired a Fiat Punto (1 year old?) whilst on holiday in Greece last
> >> >>>week.
> > 2
> >> >>>things happened which  I thought strange - any ideas/comments:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>(2) Same car, Punto 1.4, puncture repaired. We went "cross
country" -
> >> >>>well, up some pretty hairy rough & loose tracks, which wound steeply
> >> >>>uphill for miles. The car handled them not too badly, but was
getting
> >> >>>a
> >> >>>bit hot - 3/4 on the water temp guage, but well away from the red.
> >> >>>Ambient temperature was around 33C. At times the air con was not
> > dishing
> >> >>>out any cool air which indicated that the engine was pretty hot, or
> >> >>>perhaps there is a device which cuts the air con when the engine
temp
> >> >>>goes too high. Anyway, got the the end of this trail (big sigh of
> >> >>>relief), and turned left up a fairly steep tarmac road in 1st gear.
> >> >>>The
> >> >>>engine just bogged down - so I dipped the clutch, gave it a few more
> > revs
> >> >>>and let the clutch in again - same result, it just bogged down and
> >> >>>then
> >> >>>stalled. I dropped back down the hill to a convenient spot and
waited
> >> >>>a
> >> >>>couple of minutes with the engine running, figuring it would cool
> > faster
> >> >>>with the water pump running than without. Tried again and it seemed
to
> >> >>>pull better, but not well - I kept my foot down on the throttle then
> >> >>>it
> >> >>>gradually picked up and eventually returned to normal. Question is -
> > why
> >> >>>did this  happen? Is this a safety feature to prevent engine damage,
> >> >>>perhaps the ECU limits the power to reduce overheating - in which
case
> >> >>>I'll be avoiding Fiats completely in future because it's a bloody
> >> >>>dangerous feature! Or perhaps the temp gauge was under-reading?
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You haven't mentioned the altitude at which this happened. Perhaps
the
> >> >> air was rather thin there and this commonly results in a sharp
> >> >> decrease
> >> >> in power from naturally aspirated engines.
> >> >>
> >> >> Huw
> >> > Interesting thought. We were on the island of Samos - couldn't have
> >> > been
> >> > more that 1200 metres, which is the  max altitude of the bit we were
> >> > driving in. I don't see how that would explain how the problem
resolved
> >> > itself? BTW when I said "dropped back down the hill" it was 40 metres
> >> > or
> >> > so.
> >> >
> >> > Biggles
> >>
> >> 1200 metres is quite high. The engine probably ran too rich and what
you
> >> experienced was similar to running an engine with too much choke,
> >> coughing
> >> and spluttering cured for a few moments by a quick blow-out and a few
> > revs.
> >>
> >
> > Erm we havent been using carbs for almost a decade now!
> >
> > Altitude compensation is one of the most fundemental atributes of a fuel
> > injection system.
> >
> > Tim..
> >
> >
>
> It can only compensate by lowering fuel injection and power to a point
> unless the engine is turbocharged.
>


Of course, but your post related to the engine bogging down due to a rich
mixture due to thinner air at altitude.

Tim..

"Tim.."  wrote in message 
news:de7vca$csj$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3mpbabF17qpf6U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Tim.."  wrote in message
>> news:de7r2c$2eb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> >
>> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > news:3mojk1F17r13rU1@individual.net...
>> >>
>> >> "Biggles"  wrote in
>> > message
>> >> news:de74ke$g8t$1@newsm1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> >> > Huw wrote:
>> >> >> "Biggles"  wrote 
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> message news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> 1200 metres is quite high. The engine probably ran too rich and what
> you
>> >> experienced was similar to running an engine with too much choke,
>> >> coughing
>> >> and spluttering cured for a few moments by a quick blow-out and a few
>> > revs.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Erm we havent been using carbs for almost a decade now!
>> >
>> > Altitude compensation is one of the most fundemental atributes of a 
>> > fuel
>> > injection system.
>> >
>> > Tim..
>> >
>> >
>>
>> It can only compensate by lowering fuel injection and power to a point
>> unless the engine is turbocharged.
>>
>
> Of course, but your post related to the engine bogging down due to a rich
> mixture due to thinner air at altitude.
>
> Tim..
>
>


I am not familiar with the engine mapping for the vehicle concerned but it 
is possible that either the envelope for lowest fuelling was breached in 
relation to air density or that the air density range was exceeded or a 
combination of both. Of course there could also have been a sensor or other 
calibration fault or it could be something else entirely. Also I am not 
entirely sure that air density is in fact measured at all in some cars which 
measure air volume only.
If you have a different and more probable hypothesis then we shall all be 
pleased to hear it.


Huw
Huw

"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:3mpeq0F17vn1aU1@individual.net...

>
> "Tim.."  wrote in message 
> news:de7vca$csj$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>
>> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:3mpbabF17qpf6U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Tim.."  wrote in message
>>> news:de7r2c$2eb$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>> >
>>> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> > news:3mojk1F17r13rU1@individual.net...
>>> >>
>>> >> "Biggles"  wrote in
>>> > message
>>> >> news:de74ke$g8t$1@newsm1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>> >> > Huw wrote:
>>> >> >> "Biggles"  wrote 
>>> >> >> in
>>> >> >> message news:de5lnb$h1q$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 1200 metres is quite high. The engine probably ran too rich and what
>> you
>>> >> experienced was similar to running an engine with too much choke,
>>> >> coughing
>>> >> and spluttering cured for a few moments by a quick blow-out and a few
>>> > revs.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Erm we havent been using carbs for almost a decade now!
>>> >
>>> > Altitude compensation is one of the most fundemental atributes of a 
>>> > fuel
>>> > injection system.
>>> >
>>> > Tim..
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> It can only compensate by lowering fuel injection and power to a point
>>> unless the engine is turbocharged.
>>>
>>
>> Of course, but your post related to the engine bogging down due to a rich
>> mixture due to thinner air at altitude.
>>
>> Tim..
>>
>>
>
> I am not familiar with the engine mapping for the vehicle concerned but it 
> is possible that either the envelope for lowest fuelling was breached in 
> relation to air density or that the air density range was exceeded or a 
> combination of both. Of course there could also have been a sensor or 
> other calibration fault or it could be something else entirely. Also I am 
> not entirely sure that air density is in fact measured at all in some cars 
> which measure air volume only.
> If you have a different and more probable hypothesis then we shall all be 
> pleased to hear it.
>
>
> Huw
> Huw
>

You weren't the guy in the queue in front of me refusing to take a hire care 
because there was a dent in the door were you?. Hire cars are so cheap that 
maintence is minimal - just enjoy chilling out.......................

"john"  wrote in message 
news:MhNNe.16063$1F5.12384@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

>
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:3mpeq0F17vn1aU1@individual.net...
>>
>> If you have a different and more probable hypothesis then we shall all be 
>> pleased to hear it.
>>
>>
>> Huw
>>
> You weren't the guy in the queue in front of me refusing to take a hire 
> care because there was a dent in the door were you?. Hire cars are so 
> cheap that maintence is minimal - just enjoy chilling 
> out.......................
>


Not me.

Huw

"Arturo Ui"  wrote in message 
news:YrANe.10004$4y6.3368@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...

> <snip>
>> I'm beginning to wonder if manufacturers are getting just too clever (or
>> is that not clever enough?) with ECU equipped cars, having found my
>> Zafira got stuck in the sand two years ago because the Traction Control
>> wouldn't allow the wheels to spin off the loose sand in order to get
>> down to the firm stuff underneath.
>
> Or of course it could be the electric-hydraulic power steering the punto 
> has
> was dodgy and the rest of the car suffered with lack of maintainence, like
> many 'non-mainstream' hire cars.  The Punto does not have an unblemished
> reliability record.
>
> I suggest that the next time you hire abroad you choose the VW Polo on the
> hire fleet, or hire through one of the big hire chains.


Like Hertz.... Turned up at Dublin airport to pick up my small-classed car 
to travel up to a wedding.  I'd booked my car 3 months before and paid for 
it online.  Given keys to Punto, Go out to car, sides are clean, but front 
and back filthy, like a car wash with only the side brushes had been used, 
car tax had run out.  I went back in and demanded another car, there was 
nothing else available, they were turning people away, and so where the 
other nearby companies, nothing available till the morning.  Having to be in 
the north that night, I took it.  The front tyres were some make I'd never 
heard of, were the noisiest tyres I've ever heard.  They also locked up or 
wheelspun with the slightest provocation, squealing and shrieking on 
roundabouts, and I WAS being gentle.  There was no handbook.  Despite having 
4 hours spare on my return, I daren't leave the car out of sight in case it 
got towed.
I wrote to Hertz complaining, they replied saying that it must have had a 
bad PDI, none of their cars were over a year old, so it must have been taxed 
and they looked forward to us using them again.  I never got a reply when I 
wrote sending them a copy of the hire document, with a registration number 
that was over a year old.
I'll certainly NOT use them again and neither will any of our staff going 
abroad on business, as it's me that books their cars.  Unless of course I 
hire something fast and do the Nurbergring or a track day in it.
Did you know that the widow of the guy that founded Hertz, who now runs the 
Hertz foundation, is called....
Fanny Hertz !?

--
R