URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
products.......

They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/

Oh dear...

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:58:50 -0000, "oO
" <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote:

| URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
| The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
| cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
| products.......
| 
| They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/

The problem was Sudan1 contamination of chilli powder which was used in
many products.   So any individual dish would contain very little Sudan1.

The risks are therefore miniscule.   Just take it the stuff back if you
have any.    Otherwise no problem.

-- 
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> 
Killfile and Anti Troll FAQs at 
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:58:50 -0000, "oO
" <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote:

| URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
| The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
| cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
| products.......
| 
| They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/

The problem was Sudan1 contamination of chilli powder, which was used in
Worcester sauce which was which was used in many products.   So any
individual dish would contain very little Sudan1.

The risks are therefore miniscule.   Just take it the stuff back if you
have any.    Otherwise no problem.

-- 
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> 
Killfile and Anti Troll FAQs at 
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile.  
-- 
Dave F

"oO " <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote in message
news:37mvnnF5ha5emU1@individual.net...

> URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
> The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
> cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
> products....... They are listed on the site...
> http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/




Report from BBC News:

"Food alert on cancer-causing dye"   at 19:31 GMT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4277677.stm

It's alarming to read:
"It was first discovered [more than a week ago] in a consignment of the
Worcester sauce exported to Italy.  'It has taken us a few days because we
had to get together with the food industry to find out which products had
the contaminated Worcester sauce in them,' he [Food Standard Agency Chairman
Sir John Krebs] said.  'Further affected products may still be discovered,'
he added."
So, prepared food is suspect for the moment.

-- 
Lin Chung.
[The Water Margins of Liang Shan Po were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
Replace that with 'ntlworld' for emails.]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:09:47 GMT, "Lin Chung"
 wrote:

| "oO " <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote in message
| news:37mvnnF5ha5emU1@individual.net...
| > URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
| > The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
| > cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
| > products....... They are listed on the site...
| > http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/
| 
| 
| 
| Report from BBC News:
| 
| "Food alert on cancer-causing dye"   at 19:31 GMT
| http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4277677.stm
| 
| It's alarming to read:
| "It was first discovered [more than a week ago] in a consignment of the
| Worcester sauce exported to Italy.  'It has taken us a few days because we
| had to get together with the food industry to find out which products had
| the contaminated Worcester sauce in them,' he [Food Standard Agency Chairman
| Sir John Krebs] said.  'Further affected products may still be discovered,'
| he added."
| So, prepared food is suspect for the moment.

No it isn't, the Worcester Sauce How much Worcester Sauce do you use in a
serving? One drop or perhaps three?   The amount of Sudan1, being a
contamination in a contamination in that is miniscule, and no significant
risk.   Don't worry,

The FSA are just doing their job, of reducing miniscule risks as far as
practicable.  If Sudan1 was not banned, there might be a risk.

-- 
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> 
Killfile and Anti Troll FAQs at 
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile.

At 07:43:43 on Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Dave Fawthrop 
 wrote in 
:


>No it isn't,


For heavens' sake, Dave, that's twice in this thread that you've 
cross-posted to every group hit by the original cross-post, and you 
_know_ that you ought to set follow-ups to relevant groups only when you 
do that!  What possible relevance does this have to chocolate or real 
ale? Oh, you say, everybody eats food, so everybody must be told what 
I've found out about this.  That's exactly like saying everybody has 
sex, so everybody must be offered the opportunity to buy Viagra.  And do 
you really think that people are so dim that they can't find out the 
facts without you telling them - especially since the link that the 
original spammer posted was actually informative?

FU set to uf+d.misc.
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

Things like Sudan 1 are tested in doses far above what anyone would
actually ingest , and if you ate any of the items mentioned there
would be little if any risk.There was a small amount of dye added to
chilli powder , and how much chilli powder ends up in a meat pie ?
   When will people realise that there is no such thing as safe ?
Everything you do carries some risk , but if the risk is low enough
you do it anyway.

Salut/Hi "oO

I have removed the cross post to 7 newsgroups.

 " <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com>, 

 le/on Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:58:50 -0000, tu disais/you said:-


>URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
>The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
>cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
>products.......
>
>They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/
>
>Oh dear... 


Last night, when I saw the report, the first thought I had was, just how
much food colouring does chilli powder contain, and how much chilli powder
does a commerical chilli contain? (Reports I saw said nothing about
Worcester Sauce.)

The second thought I had was "What a wet fish this Sir John Krebs is".

The third thought I had was "They only test 1000 samples as year?"
(According to Sir John). What the devil is the point of that?

The fourth thought was this morning.

Blimey. I agree with Dave Fawthrop. There's something badly wrong!!


-- 
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"dreadnought"  wrote in message
news:5a1e11h3uvdj38m8cr4nu7ttd83qa4dtbf@4ax.com...

> Things like Sudan 1 are tested in doses far above what anyone would
> actually ingest , and if you ate any of the items mentioned there
> would be little if any risk.There was a small amount of dye added to
> chilli powder , and how much chilli powder ends up in a meat pie ?
>   When will people realise that there is no such thing as safe ?
> Everything you do carries some risk , but if the risk is low enough
> you do it anyway.



The crucial point is that we do not know what the safe dose limit of Sudan 1
is?  The fact that the named consequence, an incurable or at best a very
difficult condition to treat, of ingesting this compound can manifest in 10
or even 20 years time makes that imperative to be cautious.

Until more is known, which takes time, it is wise to be discrete, and heed
the government's advice.

Everyday there are road casualties.  We all know crossing the road carries
some risk, albeit very small.  But, if you have an alternative itinerary,
why should any intelligent person choose to cross the road?  I said
"intelligent" not "foolhardy".

-- 
In Change.
[The Water Margins of Lingo Shane PO were at the time of the Sung dynasty.
Replace that with 'ntlworld' for emails.]

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 08:01:39 +0000, Molly Mockford
 wrote:


>At 07:43:43 on Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Dave Fawthrop 
> wrote in 
>:
>
>>No it isn't,
>
>For heavens' sake, Dave, that's twice in this thread that you've 
>cross-posted to every group hit by the original cross-post, and you 
>_know_ that you ought to set follow-ups to relevant groups only when you 
>do that!  


Why don't you just shut the fuck up, you boring old bitch?


>FU set to uf+d.misc.


No they're not.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 08:01:39 +0000, Molly Mockford
 wrote:

| At 07:43:43 on Sat, 19 Feb 2005, Dave Fawthrop 
|  wrote in 
| :
| 
| >No it isn't,
| 
| For heavens' sake, Dave, that's twice in this thread that you've 
| cross-posted to every group hit by the original cross-post, and you 
| _know_ that you ought to set follow-ups to relevant groups only when you 
| do that!  What possible relevance does this have to chocolate or real 
| ale? Oh, you say, everybody eats food, so everybody must be told what 
| I've found out about this.  That's exactly like saying everybody has 
| sex, so everybody must be offered the opportunity to buy Viagra.  And do 
| you really think that people are so dim that they can't find out the 
| facts without you telling them - especially since the link that the 
| original spammer posted was actually informative?

ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO

Pot, Kettle Black.

So it is wrong for me to post a reasoned reply to a reasonable foodie post,
to the seven foodie newsgroups to which the original post was directed 
uk.food+drink.chinese,uk.food+drink.chocolate,uk.food+drink.indian,
uk.food+drink.misc,uk.food+drink.real-ale,uk.food+drink.restaurants,
uk.food+drink.sausages

But it is right for Molly Mockford *a member of the uk usenet committee no
less* to start a Flame War which is Off Topic to all the seven newsgroups
to which it was posted, as above

You could not make it up if you tried.   

ROTFLMAO and I haven't stopped laughing yet.
ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO

<NGs reinstated> Right to reply to unjustified attack invoked

FU set to uk.net.news.management

-- 
Dave F

[Newsgroups line trimmed]

On Saturday, in article
     
     hyphen@hyphenologist.co.uk "Dave Fawthrop" wrote:


> No it isn't, the Worcester Sauce How much Worcester Sauce do you use in a
> serving? One drop or perhaps three?   The amount of Sudan1, being a
> contamination in a contamination in that is miniscule, and no significant
> risk.   Don't worry,


Typical Fuckthrop misinformation: there is NO "safe level" of Sudan1; not
even the amount included in a single drop of WS.

It's a far more dangerous adulterant of chilli powder than the brick dust
that turned up during Franklin's Expedition.

BTW, I was disturbed by the emphasis upon "Worcester Sauce" as the
vector: surely no sane person buys any form of that estimable product
that has not been manufactured by Messrs. Lea & Perrin?  Crosse &
Blackwell, indeed.  Pshaw.

Something else strange about this incident is the coverage afforded by
different newspapers.  I noted that readers of The Sun (whom one might
reasonably expect to be purchasers of ready-meals from such outlets as
Somerfield) were referred to the www.food.gov.uk website for a list of
products involved, whereas The Times published a definitive list on a
single page of the paper.

-- 
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                     bhk@dsl.co.uk
         "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
         le loisir de la faire plus courte."
                             Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:52:58 +0000 (GMT), bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton
Kelly}) wrote:

| [Newsgroups line trimmed]
| 
| On Saturday, in article
|      
|      hyphen@hyphenologist.co.uk "Dave Fawthrop" wrote:
| 
| > No it isn't, the Worcester Sauce How much Worcester Sauce do you use in a
| > serving? One drop or perhaps three?   The amount of Sudan1, being a
| > contamination in a contamination in that is miniscule, and no significant
| > risk.   Don't worry,
| 
| Typical Fuckthrop misinformation: there is NO "safe level" of Sudan1; not
| even the amount included in a single drop of WS.

Kindly read what you quoted.



-- 
Dave F

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:52:58 +0000 (GMT), bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
wrote:


>
>Typical Fuckthrop misinformation: there is NO "safe level" of Sudan1; not
>even the amount included in a single drop of WS.
>
>It's a far more dangerous adulterant of chilli powder than the brick dust
>that turned up during Franklin's Expedition.
>
>BTW, I was disturbed by the emphasis upon "Worcester Sauce" as the
>vector: surely no sane person buys any form of that estimable product
>that has not been manufactured by Messrs. Lea & Perrin?  Crosse &
>Blackwell, indeed.  Pshaw.
>
>Something else strange about this incident is the coverage afforded by
>different newspapers.  I noted that readers of The Sun (whom one might
>reasonably expect to be purchasers of ready-meals from such outlets as
>Somerfield) were referred to the www.food.gov.uk website for a list of
>products involved, whereas The Times published a definitive list on a
>single page of the paper.
>
>-- 
>Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                     bhk@dsl.co.uk
>         "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
>         le loisir de la faire plus courte."
>                             Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657


Good lord!

We are in the presence of a legend.

When we were studying Internet communications at uni, one of our 'handouts' was
a hilarious piece where Mr Kelly (I assume it's the same person because of the
odd curly braces), edited someone else's usenet post to make it appear that he'd
said something that he hadn't.

When the original poster complained about the dishonest editing, Mr Kelly came
up with the most *hillarious* attempt to weasel out of his misdoings -
attempting to show _in detail_ how a bizzare series of editing keystrokes had
_accidentally_ performed a precise piece of editing of some quoted test that
would, if unchallenged have weakened his opponent's case. I wish I still had it.
It served as a powerful warning against dishonest editing, and not digging
yourself deeper into a hole. All this took place about a dozen years back, but
was still a source of much amusement on uni courses four years ago, at least.

Nice to see you Mr Kelly.

You gave me and my fellow students a good laugh, and, I think we learned
something from your unfortunate example.

Jim

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:44:39 +0000, Dave Fawthrop 
wrote:


>On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:52:58 +0000 (GMT), bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton
>Kelly}) wrote:
>
>| [Newsgroups line trimmed]
>| 
>| On Saturday, in article
>|      
>|      hyphen@hyphenologist.co.uk "Dave Fawthrop" wrote:
>| 
>| > No it isn't, the Worcester Sauce How much Worcester Sauce do you use in a
>| > serving? One drop or perhaps three?   The amount of Sudan1, being a
>| > contamination in a contamination in that is miniscule, and no significant
>| > risk.   Don't worry,
>| 
>| Typical Fuckthrop misinformation: there is NO "safe level" of Sudan1; not
>| even the amount included in a single drop of WS.
>
>Kindly read what you quoted.


Beware, Dave, he's not above editing other people's material before he quotes
it.

Can be quite amusing watching him try to wriggle out of it afterwards.

Jim

Following up to Brian {Hamilton Kelly} 


>BTW, I was disturbed by the emphasis upon "Worcester Sauce" as the
>vector: surely no sane person buys any form of that estimable product
>that has not been manufactured by Messrs. Lea & Perrin?  Crosse &
>Blackwell, indeed.  Pshaw.


Indeed!
-- 
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:02:13 +0000, The Reids 
    wrote:


> Following up to Brian {Hamilton Kelly} 
> 
>>BTW, I was disturbed by the emphasis upon "Worcester Sauce" as the
>>vector: surely no sane person buys any form of that estimable product
>>that has not been manufactured by Messrs. Lea & Perrin?  Crosse &
>>Blackwell, indeed.  Pshaw.
> 
> Indeed!


The problem, from what I read, was "Worcester Sauce" (as I recall L&P's
is "Worcestershire Sauce", which Americans tend to pronounce "war sister
shire") included in a number of "ready meals".  I doubt that the likes
of Tesco use the proper stuff...

(note followups)

Chris C

Cross post removed.

Salut/Hi Brian {Hamilton Kelly}, 

 le/on Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:52:58 +0000 (GMT), tu disais/you said:-


>> serving? One drop or perhaps three?   The amount of Sudan1, being a
>> contamination in a contamination in that is miniscule, and no significant
>> risk.   Don't worry,
>
>Typical Fuckthrop misinformation: there is NO "safe level" of Sudan1; not
>even the amount included in a single drop of WS.


Evidence please? 


-- 
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"oO " <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:37mvnnF5ha5emU1@individual.net...

> URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
> The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
> cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
> products.......
>
> They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/
>
> Oh dear...



More addded to the list which now stands at 397 products...including some 
McDonalds stuff. Thank god I have had the sense never to eat that shit! 
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/

In article , oO                           
                                          
<Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote:


> "oO " <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:37mvnnF5ha5emU1@individual.net...
> > URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED The Food Standards Agency has issued an
> > urgent warning after a potentially cancer-causing dye was discovered
> > in more than 350 widely-eaten food products.......
> >
> > They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/
> >
> > Oh dear...


> More addded to the list which now stands at 397 products...including
> some McDonalds stuff. Thank god I have had the sense never to eat that
> shit! www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ 


OK, is there any truth in the rumour that Sudan-1 makes a McBurger less
toxic?

-- 
Steve Pampling

On Monday, in article 
     jbean1957@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


> On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:52:58 +0000 (GMT), bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
> wrote:
[snipped]
> When we were studying Internet communications at uni, one of our 'handouts' was
> a hilarious piece where Mr Kelly (I assume it's the same person because of the
> odd curly braces), edited someone else's usenet post to make it appear that he'd
> said something that he hadn't.
> 
> When the original poster complained about the dishonest editing, Mr Kelly came
> up with the most *hillarious* attempt to weasel out of his misdoings -
> attempting to show _in detail_ how a bizzare series of editing keystrokes had
> _accidentally_ performed a precise piece of editing of some quoted test that
> would, if unchallenged have weakened his opponent's case. I wish I still had it.
> It served as a powerful warning against dishonest editing, and not digging
> yourself deeper into a hole. All this took place about a dozen years back, but
> was still a source of much amusement on uni courses four years ago, at least.


I have no recollection of any such incident as you describe: moreover, I
have all my Usenet posts archived.  Provide evidence (off-line, if you
prefer: a Message-ID will suffice) or publicly withdraw your defamation.

-- 
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                     bhk@dsl.co.uk
         "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
         le loisir de la faire plus courte."
                             Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:14:27 +0000 (GMT), bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
wrote:


>I have no recollection of any such incident as you describe: moreover, I
>have all my Usenet posts archived.  Provide evidence (off-line, if you
>prefer: a Message-ID will suffice) or publicly withdraw your defamation.


Looking at the weaseling you were capable of on the handout, I'm not surprised
you've "forgotten" it.

Sadly for you, there's a thing called google groups. Unfortunately, they don't
seem to have archived the whole episode - there's not as much there as we were
shown, but it clearly shows you trying to wiggle your way out of a piece of
dishonest editing.

No one on our course believed a word of it, but we had a good laugh :)

If you want it made public again, just reply to this and I'll post the search
string.

Jim

Following up to jbean1957@yahoo.co.uk 


>Looking at the weaseling you were capable of on the handout, I'm not surprised
>you've "forgotten" it.


does anyone care?
-- 
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

jbean1957@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:52:58 +0000 (GMT), bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian

{Hamilton Kelly})

> wrote:
>
> >
> >Typical Fuckthrop misinformation: there is NO "safe level" of
Sudan1; not
> >even the amount included in a single drop of WS.
> >
> >It's a far more dangerous adulterant of chilli powder than the brick
dust
> >that turned up during Franklin's Expedition.
> >
> >BTW, I was disturbed by the emphasis upon "Worcester Sauce" as the
> >vector: surely no sane person buys any form of that estimable
product
> >that has not been manufactured by Messrs. Lea & Perrin?  Crosse &
> >Blackwell, indeed.  Pshaw.
> >
> >Something else strange about this incident is the coverage afforded
by
> >different newspapers.  I noted that readers of The Sun (whom one
might
> >reasonably expect to be purchasers of ready-meals from such outlets
as
> >Somerfield) were referred to the www.food.gov.uk website for a list
of
> >products involved, whereas The Times published a definitive list on
a
> >single page of the paper.
> >
> >--
> >Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
bhk@dsl.co.uk
> >         "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai
pas eu
> >         le loisir de la faire plus courte."
> >                             Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/,
1657
>
> Good lord!
>
> We are in the presence of a legend.
>
> When we were studying Internet communications at uni, one of our

'handouts' was

> a hilarious piece where Mr Kelly (I assume it's the same person

because of the

> odd curly braces), edited someone else's usenet post to make it

appear that he'd

> said something that he hadn't.
>
> When the original poster complained about the dishonest editing, Mr
Kelly came
> up with the most *hillarious* attempt to weasel out of his misdoings
-
> attempting to show _in detail_ how a bizzare series of editing

keystrokes had

> _accidentally_ performed a precise piece of editing of some quoted
test that
> would, if unchallenged have weakened his opponent's case. I wish I
still had it.
> It served as a powerful warning against dishonest editing, and not
digging
> yourself deeper into a hole. All this took place about a dozen years
back, but
> was still a source of much amusement on uni courses four years ago,
at least.
>
> Nice to see you Mr Kelly.
>
> You gave me and my fellow students a good laugh, and, I think we
learned
> something from your unfortunate example.
>
> Jim


Well Jim, I am not one to criticise anyone without justification, but I
have to say that you have Mr Hamilton Kelly's number, all credit to
you. I have had some bad experiences with "Mr Kelly" myself (if that's
his real name), he does indeed quote many bizarre untruths about
billionaires in top hats and ladas, to name but one example.

He has also taken to quoting fancy French words and phrases at the end
of his posts in order to confuse and baffle many people and also to
lend him an air of learning which I suspect may in fact be lacking.

However, occasionally the mask does slip: he is dismissive of The Sun
newspaper and its readers, however he seems to have a decent knowledge
of its contents, impressive for a non-reader!

dreadnought  wrote in message news:...

> Things like Sudan 1 are tested in doses far above what anyone would
> actually ingest , and if you ate any of the items mentioned there
> would be little if any risk.There was a small amount of dye added to
> chilli powder , and how much chilli powder ends up in a meat pie ?



I consume a lot more chilli powder in restaurant curries, take away
curries, home made curries and home made chilli con carne, than in off
the shelf products like meat pies.

The chilli powder I use is MDH brand 'Deggi Mirch', produce of India,
Mahashian Di Hatti Ltd, a leading brand seen on UK Indian grocers
shelves. It says the importers are TRS Wholesale Ltd, lot no E-11,
Best before (!) 30.6.2003. It still tastes hot.

Surely, there is a high chance that this contained Sudan 1. How on
earth can I know? Worse, I know for a fact that Indian restaurants use
this type of chilli powder and other, similar brands. We've probably
all consumed significant amounts of Sudan 1 over the past few decades.
If controls were less stringent in the past, who can say it wasn't
used in the 70s, 80s and 90s?

Regards
George

On 22 Feb 2005 01:54:07 -0800, fatbob2003@hotmail.com wrote:


>
>Well Jim, I am not one to criticise anyone without justification, but I
>have to say that you have Mr Hamilton Kelly's number, all credit to
>you. I have had some bad experiences with "Mr Kelly" myself (if that's
>his real name), he does indeed quote many bizarre untruths about
>billionaires in top hats and ladas, to name but one example.
>
>He has also taken to quoting fancy French words and phrases at the end
>of his posts in order to confuse and baffle many people and also to
>lend him an air of learning which I suspect may in fact be lacking.
>
>However, occasionally the mask does slip: he is dismissive of The Sun
>newspaper and its readers, however he seems to have a decent knowledge
>of its contents, impressive for a non-reader!
>


My previous knowledge of Mr Kelly was limited to the example we were given
(which wasn't actually intended as a hatchet job on Mr Kelly (in fact I didn't
even realise he existed as a real person until yesterday), but an example of the
general silliness that happens on the net).

I suppose Mr Kelly was unaware that his words were immortalised on google, hence
his attempt to tough it out by demanding evidence. Unfortunately for him, he's
come well unstuck.

Having actually had to spend time reserching in order to back up what I said,
and seeing some more of Mr Kelly's efforts, he comes accross as a bit of an
internet thug.

Starting his post here with "Typical Fuckthrop misinformation" seems about par
for the course. Anyone he doesn't agreee with seems to get very hard time from
the very beginning.

Jim

wrote in message 
news:421b3148.17298937@News.Individual.NET...

> On 22 Feb 2005 01:54:07 -0800, fatbob2003@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Well Jim, I am not one to criticise anyone without justification, but I
>>have to say that you have Mr Hamilton Kelly's number, all credit to
>>you. I have had some bad experiences with "Mr Kelly" myself (if that's
>>his real name), he does indeed quote many bizarre untruths about
>>billionaires in top hats and ladas, to name but one example.
>>
>>He has also taken to quoting fancy French words and phrases at the end
>>of his posts in order to confuse and baffle many people and also to
>>lend him an air of learning which I suspect may in fact be lacking.
>>
>>However, occasionally the mask does slip: he is dismissive of The Sun
>>newspaper and its readers, however he seems to have a decent knowledge
>>of its contents, impressive for a non-reader!
>>
>
> My previous knowledge of Mr Kelly was limited to the example we were given
> (which wasn't actually intended as a hatchet job on Mr Kelly (in fact I 
> didn't
> even realise he existed as a real person until yesterday), but an example 
> of the
> general silliness that happens on the net).
>
> I suppose Mr Kelly was unaware that his words were immortalised on google, 
> hence
> his attempt to tough it out by demanding evidence. Unfortunately for him, 
> he's
> come well unstuck.
>
> Having actually had to spend time reserching in order to back up what I 
> said,
> and seeing some more of Mr Kelly's efforts, he comes accross as a bit of 
> an
> internet thug.
>
> Starting his post here with "Typical Fuckthrop misinformation" seems about 
> par
> for the course. Anyone he doesn't agreee with seems to get very hard time 
> from
> the very beginning.


I vaguely remember this episode.

I was lurking on demon.ip.support prior to asking a question.

That group had been set up by Demon to provide support, but had been 
hijacked by some of the nastiest most arrogant people I've ever seen on the 
net.

I can't remember most of their names, but Kelly stood out because of his odd 
name and foul mouth. Another similar was Richard Ashton.

There was someone else on there trying to get the group back on track, and 
dealing with what Demon set it up for, and the flame wars were something to 
be seen.

I never posted there, it was pointless, but its weird to see one of the old 
names crop up.

Paul Douglas wrote:

>  wrote in message
> news:421b3148.17298937@News.Individual.NET...
> > On 22 Feb 2005 01:54:07 -0800, fatbob2003@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Well Jim, I am not one to criticise anyone without justification,
but I
> >>have to say that you have Mr Hamilton Kelly's number, all credit to
> >>you. I have had some bad experiences with "Mr Kelly" myself (if
that's
> >>his real name), he does indeed quote many bizarre untruths about
> >>billionaires in top hats and ladas, to name but one example.
> >>
> >>He has also taken to quoting fancy French words and phrases at the
end
> >>of his posts in order to confuse and baffle many people and also to
> >>lend him an air of learning which I suspect may in fact be lacking.
> >>
> >>However, occasionally the mask does slip: he is dismissive of The
Sun
> >>newspaper and its readers, however he seems to have a decent
knowledge
> >>of its contents, impressive for a non-reader!
> >>
> >
> > My previous knowledge of Mr Kelly was limited to the example we
were given
> > (which wasn't actually intended as a hatchet job on Mr Kelly (in
fact I
> > didn't
> > even realise he existed as a real person until yesterday), but an
example
> > of the
> > general silliness that happens on the net).
> >
> > I suppose Mr Kelly was unaware that his words were immortalised on
google,
> > hence
> > his attempt to tough it out by demanding evidence. Unfortunately
for him,
> > he's
> > come well unstuck.
> >
> > Having actually had to spend time reserching in order to back up
what I
> > said,
> > and seeing some more of Mr Kelly's efforts, he comes accross as a
bit of
> > an
> > internet thug.
> >
> > Starting his post here with "Typical Fuckthrop misinformation"
seems about
> > par
> > for the course. Anyone he doesn't agreee with seems to get very
hard time
> > from
> > the very beginning.
>
> I vaguely remember this episode.
>
> I was lurking on demon.ip.support prior to asking a question.
>
> That group had been set up by Demon to provide support, but had been
> hijacked by some of the nastiest most arrogant people I've ever seen
on the
> net.
>
> I can't remember most of their names, but Kelly stood out because of
his odd
> name and foul mouth. Another similar was Richard Ashton.
>
> There was someone else on there trying to get the group back on
track, and
> dealing with what Demon set it up for, and the flame wars were
something to
> be seen.
>
> I never posted there, it was pointless, but its weird to see one of
the old
> names crop up.


I think you will find that like most bullies you will not hear from
this Kelly character for a while, he has certainly been sent packing
with his tail between his legs, a bloody nose and deflated something or
other too.

I think I can safely say without fear of legal action against me that
Mr Hamilton Kelly (assuming that's his real name) has his own agenda
which he tries to push at every opportunity. Whilst I don't know
whether or not he is actually German, he is certainly in some way
connected to a German cartel whose sole interest is to subvert the
British way of life, in particular the British banger, and force German
sausages down our throats whenever they can. I have been a vocal critic
of his in the past, and will continue to follow that path, even if it
is at great personal expense.

As you correctly point out, Mr Hamilton Kelly purports to be a man of
learning and fine words, however he more often than not lapses into
foul mouthed abuse, the sign of a poor education if ever there was one.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:57:12 GMT, jbean1957@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


| 
| When we were studying Internet communications at uni, one of our 'handouts' was
| a hilarious piece where Mr Kelly (I assume it's the same person because of the
| odd curly braces), edited someone else's usenet post to make it appear that he'd
| said something that he hadn't.

This policy by M Kelley is confirmed upthread where he wrongly accused me
of giving out misinformation by totally misrepresenting the information in
my post which he actually quoted.

You couldn't make it up if you tried :-)))))))

-- 
Dave F

On Tuesday, in article
      jbean1957@yahoo.co.uk
     wrote:


> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:14:27 +0000 (GMT), bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
> wrote:
> 
> >I have no recollection of any such incident as you describe: moreover, I
> >have all my Usenet posts archived.  Provide evidence (off-line, if you
> >prefer: a Message-ID will suffice) or publicly withdraw your defamation.
> 
> Looking at the weaseling you were capable of on the handout, I'm not surprised
> you've "forgotten" it.
> 
> Sadly for you, there's a thing called google groups. Unfortunately, they don't
> seem to have archived the whole episode - there's not as much there as we were
> shown, but it clearly shows you trying to wiggle your way out of a piece of
> dishonest editing.


Using "Kelly dishonest editing" (under "posts containing ALL words") in an
advanced groups search turns up hudreds of entries on Google Groups.
However, none of the threads, bar this one, are anything to do with me.
(I did note that a Michael Kelly also had "those weird braces" in
juxtaposition to his name, in posts to religious groups.)


> No one on our course believed a word of it, but we had a good laugh :)
>
> If you want it made public again, just reply to this and I'll post the search
> string.


Please do; if there are any holes that I can fill from my own archives,
I'll see what I can do.

-- 
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}                                     bhk@dsl.co.uk
         "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
         le loisir de la faire plus courte."
                             Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657

"oO " <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:37mvnnF5ha5emU1@individual.net...

> URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
> The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
> cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
> products.......
>
> They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/
>
> Oh dear...


From: www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk (on homepage at very top with other links 
about this)

Cancer dye supplier has been fined before


By Maxine Frith

23 February 2005
A company at the centre of the Sudan 1 food scare has previously had to pay 
compensation to manufacturers after supplying them with contaminated chilli.

East Anglian Food Ingredients (EAFI) paid more than 300,000 to clients two 
years ago after inadvertently selling them chilli containing the 
cancer-causing Sudan 1 dye.

It was thought the affected batch had been destroyed but it appears it 
remained in circulation and was sold to other firms, sparking the most 
recent alert.

The news, which emerged yesterday, raised fresh concerns about whether there 
is sufficient regulation of food products in Britain.

Meanwhile, manufacturers said the recent alert could be their "Armageddon" 
and warned the safety concerns could cost the food industry up to 100m. 
More than 400 contaminated products have been removed from shop shelves.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:40:21 -0000, "oO
" <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com> wrote:

| Meanwhile, manufacturers said the recent alert could be their "Armageddon" 
| and warned the safety concerns could cost the food industry up to 100m. 
| More than 400 contaminated products have been removed from shop shelves.

Serves them right :-)))

-- 
Dave Fawthrop 
Sick and tired of Junk Snail Mail? 
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/mpsr/ 
IME it works :-)

Salut/Hi "oO
" <Oo_2003(remove2reply)@aol.com>, 

 le/on Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:58:50 -0000, tu disais/you said:-


>URGENT FOOD WARNING ISSUED
>The Food Standards Agency has issued an urgent warning after a potentially
>cancer-causing dye was discovered in more than 350 widely-eaten food
>products.......
>
>They are listed on the site... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/
>
>Oh dear... 


For heaven's sake people. Calm down. This is just another media storm in a
teacup.

1 Sudan1 was legal for many years. We all consumed our Tandooris etc without
being in the least bit worried. OK, I accept that if tests have shown that
it can be carcinogenic when using standard tests, it shouldn't be in food.

2. Sudan1 was an ingredient in chile powder (not that I see the need for a
food colourant in chile powder), so will be present in tiny quantities.

3. Chile powder was used in one manufacturer's Worcestershire Sauce (what
sort of doses, since no proper recipe for Worcestershire Sauce calls for
chile powder?) 

4. This sauce was used by various manufacturers for their prepared foods.
How many of you use W.S in such dishes? If you did, you'd know as I do, that
it's in miniscule quantities in everything (except for cajun meatloaf, where
I use 1 tsp to 2 lbs meat). 

So as Dave F said, it's a very minor component of a very minor component, of
a seasoning usually used in tiny quantities. A little common sense please.

-- 
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

oO                                                                       
surprised us with


> More than 400 contaminated products have been removed from shop shelves.


FOOD ALERT: 

Some supermarket chains have had to stoop even so low as to actually sell 
real food!

-- 
Waldo

*** Is This A Dead Parrot I See Before Me ***
 To respond through email remove removespam

wrote:


> Paul Douglas wrote:
> >  wrote in message
> > news:421b3148.17298937@News.Individual.NET...
> > > On 22 Feb 2005 01:54:07 -0800, fatbob2003@hotmail.com wrote:


[snip]

Look, could you remove uk.food+drink.misc from your posts, or at least
edit them more when you quote? You're giving that troll more publicity
than he deserves. :)



Greg

-- 
D'une fuse qui l'pingle
  au ciel
                   No spam: ficus = no(n)

On 22 Feb 2005 03:57:11 -0800, GeorgeBray1961@hotmail.com (George
Bray) wrote:


>dreadnought  wrote in message news:...
>> Things like Sudan 1 are tested in doses far above what anyone would
>> actually ingest , and if you ate any of the items mentioned there
>> would be little if any risk.There was a small amount of dye added to
>> chilli powder , and how much chilli powder ends up in a meat pie ?
>
>
>I consume a lot more chilli powder in restaurant curries, take away
>curries, home made curries and home made chilli con carne, than in off
>the shelf products like meat pies.
>
>The chilli powder I use is MDH brand 'Deggi Mirch', produce of India,
>Mahashian Di Hatti Ltd, a leading brand seen on UK Indian grocers
>shelves. It says the importers are TRS Wholesale Ltd, lot no E-11,
>Best before (!) 30.6.2003. It still tastes hot.
>
>Surely, there is a high chance that this contained Sudan 1. How on
>earth can I know? Worse, I know for a fact that Indian restaurants use
>this type of chilli powder and other, similar brands. We've probably
>all consumed significant amounts of Sudan 1 over the past few decades.
>If controls were less stringent in the past, who can say it wasn't
>used in the 70s, 80s and 90s?
>
>Regards
>George

According to the official website , ulcers were produced in laboratory
animals when dosed at 50mg per Kg body weight. At 25 mg per Kg no
ulcers occurred.It notes that "Sudan 1 is not a very powerful
carcinogen"
The effective dosage corresponds to about 3g of Sudan 1 in an average
person ( a tenth of an ounce in humanspeak) .....an enormous amount!!
The chilli powder was apparently used to make Worcester sauce , which
explains the very wide range of foods it ended up in.
Remember that dyestuffs are chosen because they are very powerful
colorants and are therefore used in tiny amounts ( they are also more
expensive than chilli) .....and what proportion of the curry is
actually chilli anyway ? I have a drum of curry powder in front of me
and chilli isn't even included in the list of ingredients.I think we
are all routinely  taking greater risks than eating contaminated
chilli..

In message , George Bray 
 writes

>
>The chilli powder I use is MDH brand 'Deggi Mirch', produce of India,
>Mahashian Di Hatti Ltd, a leading brand seen on UK Indian grocers
>shelves. It says the importers are TRS Wholesale Ltd, lot no E-11,
>Best before (!) 30.6.2003. It still tastes hot.
>
>Surely, there is a high chance that this contained Sudan 1. How on
>earth can I know? Worse, I know for a fact that Indian restaurants use
>this type of chilli powder and other, similar brands. We've probably
>all consumed significant amounts of Sudan 1 over the past few decades.
>If controls were less stringent in the past, who can say it wasn't
>used in the 70s, 80s and 90s?
>


TRS Wholesale are an emanation of TR Suterwalla & Sons of Southall [1]. 
They sell in small packets to white customers, but they sell more in 
large packets to Asian customers.

Now, the reason for dying degi mirch red, is to make it look fresher.
It seems the powder that caused this recall is from the same batch that 
the supplier had to pay compensation for, two years ago!
Dried chilli products don't lose hotness with age, but they do lose 
flavour.

But if you were an Indian housewife buying it for its taste as well as 
for its capsaicin [2] content, would you be deceived?  Naturally not, 
when you smelt and tasted it you'd know it was old, and would shun the 
supplier then or in future.
So if you are the Suterwallas and you mean to keep her custom, you buy 
fresh chili powder in order to sell fresh chili powder.

Whereas, if you are a Food Processing company with ISO 2000 processes, 
you test the stuff for its capsaicin content, and perhaps for the 
adulterants and contaminants listed in your manual (which apparently is 
not updated in the light of experience) and you pay according to the 
capsaicin.

And that, o best beloved, is why they are recalling processed food 
products but are not recalling 2kg packets of chilli powder.

So you can eat with confidence, but if you still aren't convinced, you 
have only to buy dried chillies and grind them up as Umma used to do, 
because she didn't trust the grocer not to add brick dust if she bought 
it already ground.

[1] Some decades ago Southall's Asian community took the lead in 
suppressing the adulteration of their foodstuffs.

[2] Capsaicin is the substance that gives chillies and chili products 
their hotness.

-- 
Sue  ];(:)

Eat better for less: buy recognisable bits of plant or animal, cook them yourself.

http://www.food.gov.uk/safereating/sudani/sudanitimeline May 2003 in fact

Sue <Sue@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message news:<4gvnzlJK75HCFw+X@mashtub.demon.co.uk>...


> Now, the reason for dying degi mirch red, is to make it look fresher.
> It seems the powder that caused this recall is from the same batch that 
> the supplier had to pay compensation for, two years ago!


Sue

Many thanks for your input here. Yes, my chilli powder is Deggi Mirch,
described on the pack as imparting 'natural red colour'.

I wonder if I can ask TRS to certify that this pre-2003 batch is free
of Sudan 1 - the lot no. is on the packet. Or ask Trading Standards to
find out? Small chance, I expect.

Processed foods withdrawn from supermarket shelves would contain far
less chilli than I have used.

Regards
George

oO                                                                       
surprised us with


> More than 400 contaminated products have been removed from shop shelves.


FOOD ALERT: 

Some supermarket chains have had to stoop even so low as to actually sell 
real food!

-- 
Waldo

*** Is This A Dead Parrot I See Before Me ***
 To respond through email remove removespam

wrote:


> Paul Douglas wrote:
> >  wrote in message
> > news:421b3148.17298937@News.Individual.NET...
> > > On 22 Feb 2005 01:54:07 -0800, fatbob2003@hotmail.com wrote:


[snip]

Look, could you remove uk.food+drink.misc from your posts, or at least
edit them more when you quote? You're giving that troll more publicity
than he deserves. :)



Greg

-- 
D'une fuse qui l'pingle
  au ciel
                   No spam: ficus = no(n)

On 22 Feb 2005 03:57:11 -0800, GeorgeBray1961@hotmail.com (George
Bray) wrote:


>dreadnought  wrote in message news:...
>> Things like Sudan 1 are tested in doses far above what anyone would
>> actually ingest , and if you ate any of the items mentioned there
>> would be little if any risk.There was a small amount of dye added to
>> chilli powder , and how much chilli powder ends up in a meat pie ?
>
>
>I consume a lot more chilli powder in restaurant curries, take away
>curries, home made curries and home made chilli con carne, than in off
>the shelf products like meat pies.
>
>The chilli powder I use is MDH brand 'Deggi Mirch', produce of India,
>Mahashian Di Hatti Ltd, a leading brand seen on UK Indian grocers
>shelves. It says the importers are TRS Wholesale Ltd, lot no E-11,
>Best before (!) 30.6.2003. It still tastes hot.
>
>Surely, there is a high chance that this contained Sudan 1. How on
>earth can I know? Worse, I know for a fact that Indian restaurants use
>this type of chilli powder and other, similar brands. We've probably
>all consumed significant amounts of Sudan 1 over the past few decades.
>If controls were less stringent in the past, who can say it wasn't
>used in the 70s, 80s and 90s?
>
>Regards
>George

According to the official website , ulcers were produced in laboratory
animals when dosed at 50mg per Kg body weight. At 25 mg per Kg no
ulcers occurred.It notes that "Sudan 1 is not a very powerful
carcinogen"
The effective dosage corresponds to about 3g of Sudan 1 in an average
person ( a tenth of an ounce in humanspeak) .....an enormous amount!!
The chilli powder was apparently used to make Worcester sauce , which
explains the very wide range of foods it ended up in.
Remember that dyestuffs are chosen because they are very powerful
colorants and are therefore used in tiny amounts ( they are also more
expensive than chilli) .....and what proportion of the curry is
actually chilli anyway ? I have a drum of curry powder in front of me
and chilli isn't even included in the list of ingredients.I think we
are all routinely  taking greater risks than eating contaminated
chilli..

In message , George Bray 
 writes

>
>The chilli powder I use is MDH brand 'Deggi Mirch', produce of India,
>Mahashian Di Hatti Ltd, a leading brand seen on UK Indian grocers
>shelves. It says the importers are TRS Wholesale Ltd, lot no E-11,
>Best before (!) 30.6.2003. It still tastes hot.
>
>Surely, there is a high chance that this contained Sudan 1. How on
>earth can I know? Worse, I know for a fact that Indian restaurants use
>this type of chilli powder and other, similar brands. We've probably
>all consumed significant amounts of Sudan 1 over the past few decades.
>If controls were less stringent in the past, who can say it wasn't
>used in the 70s, 80s and 90s?
>


TRS Wholesale are an emanation of TR Suterwalla & Sons of Southall [1]. 
They sell in small packets to white customers, but they sell more in 
large packets to Asian customers.

Now, the reason for dying degi mirch red, is to make it look fresher.
It seems the powder that caused this recall is from the same batch that 
the supplier had to pay compensation for, two years ago!
Dried chilli products don't lose hotness with age, but they do lose 
flavour.

But if you were an Indian housewife buying it for its taste as well as 
for its capsaicin [2] content, would you be deceived?  Naturally not, 
when you smelt and tasted it you'd know it was old, and would shun the 
supplier then or in future.
So if you are the Suterwallas and you mean to keep her custom, you buy 
fresh chili powder in order to sell fresh chili powder.

Whereas, if you are a Food Processing company with ISO 2000 processes, 
you test the stuff for its capsaicin content, and perhaps for the 
adulterants and contaminants listed in your manual (which apparently is 
not updated in the light of experience) and you pay according to the 
capsaicin.

And that, o best beloved, is why they are recalling processed food 
products but are not recalling 2kg packets of chilli powder.

So you can eat with confidence, but if you still aren't convinced, you 
have only to buy dried chillies and grind them up as Umma used to do, 
because she didn't trust the grocer not to add brick dust if she bought 
it already ground.

[1] Some decades ago Southall's Asian community took the lead in 
suppressing the adulteration of their foodstuffs.

[2] Capsaicin is the substance that gives chillies and chili products 
their hotness.

-- 
Sue  ];(:)

Eat better for less: buy recognisable bits of plant or animal, cook them yourself.

http://www.food.gov.uk/safereating/sudani/sudanitimeline May 2003 in fact

Sue <Sue@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message news:<4gvnzlJK75HCFw+X@mashtub.demon.co.uk>...


> Now, the reason for dying degi mirch red, is to make it look fresher.
> It seems the powder that caused this recall is from the same batch that 
> the supplier had to pay compensation for, two years ago!


Sue

Many thanks for your input here. Yes, my chilli powder is Deggi Mirch,
described on the pack as imparting 'natural red colour'.

I wonder if I can ask TRS to certify that this pre-2003 batch is free
of Sudan 1 - the lot no. is on the packet. Or ask Trading Standards to
find out? Small chance, I expect.

Processed foods withdrawn from supermarket shelves would contain far
less chilli than I have used.

Regards
George