TRAIN drivers have warned they will not travel through the tunnel at Gerrards
Cross until they are satisfied it will not collapse again.

Drivers union Aslef said it would not send drivers through the tunnel, which
caved in a month ago, until it was sure it was safe.

More of the piece from
<http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/headlines/display.var.620368.0.train_drivers_may_boycott_tunnel_after_safety_fears.php>
-- 
Nick

All my own comments !

Worked on the Signalling in the North East since 1983 !

http://www.whelan.me.uk
nrw7 on Yahoo messenger & nickw7coc on MSN Messenger too !

Nick wrote:

>More of the piece from
><http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/headlines/display.var.620368.0.train_drivers_may_boycott_tunnel_after_safety_fears.php>


That story is over a week old...

-- 
Neil Sunderland
Braunton, Devon

Please observe the Reply-To address

Nick wrote:

> TRAIN drivers have warned they will not travel through the tunnel at Gerrards
> Cross until they are satisfied it will not collapse again.
>
> Drivers union Aslef said it would not send drivers through the tunnel, which
> caved in a month ago, until it was sure it was safe.


Under different circumstances this would seem like a rather ridiculous
thing for ASLEF to come out with, but given that the tunnel collapsed
once and may do so again it seems somewhat sensible that ASLEF would
want bulletproof assurances that the tunnel is safe to drive in.

"TheOneKEA"  wrote in message 
news:1124261422.591076.281350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Nick wrote:
>> TRAIN drivers have warned they will not travel through the tunnel at 
>> Gerrards
>> Cross until they are satisfied it will not collapse again.
>>
>> Drivers union Aslef said it would not send drivers through the tunnel, 
>> which
>> caved in a month ago, until it was sure it was safe.
>
> Under different circumstances this would seem like a rather ridiculous
> thing for ASLEF to come out with, but given that the tunnel collapsed
> once and may do so again it seems somewhat sensible that ASLEF would
> want bulletproof assurances that the tunnel is safe to drive in.
>


Maybe the passengers would appreciate a bit of confidence also.

KW

- And on Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:45:37 GMT, it was spake thus  said in message Neil Sunderland :


> Nick wrote:
> >More of the piece from
> 
> That story is over a week old...


Ok Neil, it's just the first I've seen of it and I couldn't see a posting
here about it...
-- 
Nick

All my own comments !

Worked on the Signalling in the North East since 1983 !

http://www.whelan.me.uk
nrw7 on Yahoo messenger & nickw7coc on MSN Messenger too !

>> Nick wrote:
>>>More of the piece from [...]

>> That story is over a week old...
>
Nick wrote:
>Ok Neil, it's just the first I've seen of it and I couldn't see a posting
>here about it...


Someone posting as "Frank Skinner" posted a link last week here:
<news:Bk_Je.85189$G8.20931@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>

Having said that, your post generated more replies ;-)

-- 
Neil Sunderland
Braunton, Devon

Please observe the Reply-To address

The easiest way to solve this is for the Chief Executive of Network
Rail and Tescos to move into a caravan with their families in the
tunnel. If they wont then it isn't safe.

Kevin

On 17 Aug 2005 01:53:40 -0700, kajr@mwfree.net wrote:


>The easiest way to solve this is for the Chief Executive of Network
>Rail and Tescos to move into a caravan with their families in the
>tunnel. If they wont then it isn't safe.
>
>Kevin


Tough getting a safety case for that!  The local population would
think nothing of Tesco chief's actions, having a very low opinion of
him anyway.  Has anyone heard of the head of Network Rail?  Now, if MD
of Chiltern were to make a gesture, that would be understood and
believed, I think.  It would not surprise me one bit if she is up
front either in the first train or on foot. 

Guy Gorton

In article , Guy Gorton
 writes

>On 17 Aug 2005 01:53:40 -0700, kajr@mwfree.net wrote:
>
>>The easiest way to solve this is for the Chief Executive of Network
>>Rail and Tescos to move into a caravan with their families in the
>>tunnel. If they wont then it isn't safe.
>>
>>Kevin
>
>Tough getting a safety case for that!  The local population would
>think nothing of Tesco chief's actions, having a very low opinion of
>him anyway.  Has anyone heard of the head of Network Rail?  Now, if MD
>of Chiltern were to make a gesture, that would be understood and
>believed, I think.  It would not surprise me one bit if she is up
>front either in the first train or on foot. 
>
>Guy Gorton


Lets have a UKR steam special as first train through;))..
-- 
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:45:31 +0100, tony sayer 
wrote:


>
>Lets have a UKR steam special as first train through;))..

Preferably brought to stand with 12 on just before the eastern tunnel!
Restart up the bank should loosen any dusty bits! 

Guy Gorton

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:45:31 +0100, tony sayer wrote:


> Lets have a UKR steam special as first train through;)


But the steam - it might loosen the glue...

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p11938597.html
(40 063 at Bescot, 7 Jun 1985)

In article ,
   TheOneKEA  wrote:

> Nick wrote:
> > TRAIN drivers have warned they will not travel through the tunnel at Gerrards
> > Cross until they are satisfied it will not collapse again.
> >
> > Drivers union Aslef said it would not send drivers through the tunnel, which
> > caved in a month ago, until it was sure it was safe.

> Under different circumstances this would seem like a rather ridiculous
> thing for ASLEF to come out with, but given that the tunnel collapsed
> once and may do so again it seems somewhat sensible that ASLEF would
> want bulletproof assurances that the tunnel is safe to drive in.


If the Health and Safety Executive approve the reopening, what grounds
have ASLEF to object ?

David

In article ,
   Guy Gorton  wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:45:31 +0100, tony sayer 
> wrote:

> >
> >Lets have a UKR steam special as first train through;))..
> Preferably brought to stand with 12 on just before the eastern tunnel!
> Restart up the bank should loosen any dusty bits! 

> Guy Gorton


Next booked steam working is 22 October.

David at www.uksteam.info

"Chris Tolley"  wrote in message
news:1ddxjf9m2dv7b.6ylco0m5l7oo$.dlg@40tude.net...

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:45:31 +0100, tony sayer wrote:
>
> > Lets have a UKR steam special as first train through;)
>
> But the steam - it might loosen the glue...


In the tunnel or the Chiltern MD's glorious barnet?

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:54:07 +0100 someone who may be gwr4090
 wrote this:-


>If the Health and Safety Executive approve the reopening, what grounds
>have ASLEF to object ?


Anyone may highlight a safety concern. Indeed trade unions are
specially mentioned in the 1974 Act and from that has flowed trade
union safety representatives. Like all groups of people this group
contains good, bad and indifferent people, but it is foolish to
dismiss their concerns.

I'm sure those who have pronounced the construction safe will have
no problems about travelling through the tunnel on every train for
say the first two days, followed by less frequent trips during say
the next month. It is the least they can do to show they are
confident in their predictions.

When I was in the civil service the final step which an authorised
person did in isolating and earthing electrical equipment, before
someone worked on it, was to touch the bare conductors. If they
survived this then they could complete the paperwork and set off
with their key for the key safe, within which the key(s) for the
padlock(s) on the switchgear were contained. The other key to the
key safe was held by the person doing the work. An alternative
system, used in other places, is that everyone has a padlock and
only they have key for it, which achieves the same thing. Touching
the bare conductors was an excellent discipline that ensured they
gave their full attention to the job. In the field of tunnels being
prepared to go through or stand in the tunnel fulfills a similar
purpose.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In article , Guy Gorton
 writes

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:45:31 +0100, tony sayer 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Lets have a UKR steam special as first train through;))..
>Preferably brought to stand with 12 on just before the eastern tunnel!
>Restart up the bank should loosen any dusty bits! 


With a good whistle blast;)))

Plenty of smoke of the blackest kind?, no!, perhaps  A deltic with a
good burst of clag and perhaps a small exhaust fire, that'll give the
Jurno's at the BBC a field day!.....

>
>Guy Gorton


-- 
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:54:07 +0100, gwr4090 wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

[...]

> If the Health and Safety Executive approve the reopening, what grounds
> have ASLEF to object ?


ISTR HSE approved the signalling layout at Paddington until after the
Ladbroke Grove accident, at which point they found a loophole to claim
that they hadn't really approved it after all.

HSE approval is frankly worthless when they behave like that.

-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

In article , David Hansen
 writes

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:54:07 +0100 someone who may be gwr4090
> wrote this:-
>
>>If the Health and Safety Executive approve the reopening, what grounds
>>have ASLEF to object ?
>
>Anyone may highlight a safety concern. Indeed trade unions are
>specially mentioned in the 1974 Act and from that has flowed trade
>union safety representatives. Like all groups of people this group
>contains good, bad and indifferent people, but it is foolish to
>dismiss their concerns.
>
>I'm sure those who have pronounced the construction safe will have
>no problems about travelling through the tunnel on every train for
>say the first two days, followed by less frequent trips during say
>the next month. It is the least they can do to show they are
>confident in their predictions.
>
>When I was in the civil service the final step which an authorised
>person did in isolating and earthing electrical equipment, before
>someone worked on it, was to touch the bare conductors. If they
>survived this then they could complete the paperwork and set off
>with their key for the key safe, within which the key(s) for the
>padlock(s) on the switchgear were contained. The other key to the
>key safe was held by the person doing the work. An alternative
>system, used in other places, is that everyone has a padlock and
>only they have key for it, which achieves the same thing. Touching
>the bare conductors was an excellent discipline that ensured they
>gave their full attention to the job. In the field of tunnels being
>prepared to go through or stand in the tunnel fulfills a similar
>purpose.
>
>


Those key systems eh?.

Worked at Pye TvT many years ago on High power UHF TV Transmitters. 

Three phase input transformed up to 15 odd kV rectified to DC etc. Was
an "A" and "B" key system. Idea was to put the A key in the main
isolator so as to get the B keys out of an interlock frame to open the
high voltage cabinets etc with the B keys. 

Some of their gear was in use in Indonesia and the maintenance engineer
had to trend his equipment in very remote places, so it wasn't that
strange if he had disappeared for a few days at a time.

However after a week some people wondered where he was, and they found
him at a site inside an opened live HV cabinet, apparently with his
bones picked clean by wild animals.

It seems he got a local locksmith to make up a "spare" A key!.....
-- 
Tony Sayer

> It seems he got a local locksmith to make up a "spare" A key!.....


Application for Darwin Award granted

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:26:24 +0100 someone who may be Ross
 wrote this:-


>ISTR HSE approved the signalling layout at Paddington until after the
>Ladbroke Grove accident, at which point they found a loophole to claim
>that they hadn't really approved it after all.


They hadn't objected to it, but hadn't approved it either.


>HSE approval is frankly worthless when they behave like that.


What do you expect when the empire builders at the HSE exploit
panicking party politicians in order to help them in their childish
game of empire building, in the process destroying the world wide
reputation of the Railway Inspectorate in less than five years.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:26:48 +0100 someone who may be tony sayer
 wrote this:-


>Three phase input transformed up to 15 odd kV rectified to DC etc. Was
>an "A" and "B" key system. Idea was to put the A key in the main
>isolator so as to get the B keys out of an interlock frame to open the
>high voltage cabinets etc with the B keys. 
>
>Some of their gear was in use in Indonesia and the maintenance engineer
>had to trend his equipment in very remote places, so it wasn't that
>strange if he had disappeared for a few days at a time.
>
>However after a week some people wondered where he was, and they found
>him at a site inside an opened live HV cabinet, apparently with his
>bones picked clean by wild animals.
>
>It seems he got a local locksmith to make up a "spare" A key!.....


That reminds me of the train crash in India mentioned by OS Nock.
Apparently two trains were waiting to go into a single line section.
One stationmaster was able to withdraw a token properly and sent his
train off. The stationmaster at the other end was so annoyed by this
that he broke into the token machine to get a token and sent his
train on its way. The result was inevitable.

Even without such utter stupidity people can be overcome by too much
keenness. One of our workmen was very keen to do a job. To speed
things up he started undoing the covers from a busbar chamber, all
ready to start when the authorised person earthed the conductors.
While doing this he dropped his spanner, which shorted across at
least two of the busbars, which were energised at 11kV. He did live,
but not everyone considers having bad electrical burns as living.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen wrote:

> I'm sure those who have pronounced the construction safe will have
> no problems about travelling through the tunnel on every train for
> say the first two days, followed by less frequent trips during say
> the next month. It is the least they can do to show they are
> confident in their predictions.



In my time in the RAF (1959-73) whenever a passenger aircraft underwent 
major servicing the first test flight thereafter had as its passengers 
every member of the ground crew who did the servicing.
-- 
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>

In article , David Hansen 
 writes

>That reminds me of the train crash in India mentioned by OS Nock.
>Apparently two trains were waiting to go into a single line section.
>One stationmaster was able to withdraw a token properly and sent his
>train off. The stationmaster at the other end was so annoyed by this
>that he broke into the token machine to get a token and sent his
>train on its way. The result was inevitable.


While it wouldn't solve this, some Colonial railways had a solution to 
deal with drivers who were all too willing to enter a single line 
section without possessing or checking the token.

The token had to be inserted into a slot in the locomotive, where it 
would act - like a Yale key - to withdraw some (but not all) metal 
fingers under the loco. There was a complementary pattern of prongs 
between the rails. If the correct token was in place, the two sets 
passed each other. If not, at least one collision took place, triggering 
an emergency brake application.

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather                       | Home: 
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work)             | Web:  <http://www.davros.org>
Fax: +44 870 051 9937                    | Work: 
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