<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4157382.stm>

A Wiltshire-based train company is asking its passengers to report
fellow travellers who they believe may be dodging paying their fares.

First Great Western wants concerned passengers to call the free phone
number for Crimestoppers.

The company said that it is particularly targeting business people and
commuters who do not buy tickets for the full length of their journey.

Anyone caught, faces a fine of up to 1,000 and three months in
prison.

'Eyes and ears'

About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.

Peter Standring, from the company, said: "Although we're already
successful at identifying and prosecuting fare evaders, using the
public's eyes and ears will help us be more efficient in ensuring that
money due to the industry is paid to the industry.

"People calling Crimestoppers may be aware of colleagues or
acquaintances who regularly travel without a ticket.

"Perhaps commuters may see fare evaders regularly travelling on a long
journey while only buying tickets to local stations.

"Or perhaps they may overhear people on board trains boasting that
they are travelling without a ticket." 

-- 
Neil Sunderland
Braunton, Devon

Please observe the Reply-To address

Neil Sunderland wrote:

> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4157382.stm>
>
> A Wiltshire-based train company is asking its passengers to report
> fellow travellers who they believe may be dodging paying their fares.
>
> First Great Western wants concerned passengers to call the free phone
> number for Crimestoppers.
>
> The company said that it is particularly targeting business people and
> commuters who do not buy tickets for the full length of their journey.
>
> Anyone caught, faces a fine of up to £1,000 and three months in
> prison.
>
> 'Eyes and ears'
>
> About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
> costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.
>
> Peter Standring, from the company, said: "Although we're already
> successful at identifying and prosecuting fare evaders, using the
> public's eyes and ears will help us be more efficient in ensuring that
> money due to the industry is paid to the industry.
>
> "People calling Crimestoppers may be aware of colleagues or
> acquaintances who regularly travel without a ticket.
>
> "Perhaps commuters may see fare evaders regularly travelling on a long
> journey while only buying tickets to local stations.
>
> "Or perhaps they may overhear people on board trains boasting that
> they are travelling without a ticket."




I hope that anyone standing in for railway staff in this way will be
paid for it and will receive the usual benefits, such as free travel ...

Train companies always going on about fare dodgers, why won't they
examine their own morals for once? Why won't someone in government hold
to account whosever decision it was to put the minimum fare on the
Network Card? This decision was ostensibly to stop people travelling on
peak evening trains from Waterloo. However it means that  I now have to
give them significantly more of my money every year for travelling on
quietish trains well away from London, and I get *nothing* in return?
Ethical? I don't think so.

Nick

Talking of fares, why won't someone in government hold to account
whosever decision it was to put the minimum fare on the Network Card?
In morality terms this is undoubtedly worse than fare-dodging, in that
a passenger might have to (I certainly do) pay train operating
companies £100 more a year.

This decision was ostensibly to stop people travelling on
peak evening trains from Waterloo. However it means that  I now have to
give them significantly more of my money every year for travelling on
quietish trains well away from London,  and what do they give me in
return? Very little it would seem.

Public transport companies seem to command very little respect from the
public. Above-inflation bus fare increases and withdrawal of the full
use of the Network Card are not going to improve matters. 

Nick

>
> A Wiltshire-based train company is asking its passengers to report
> fellow travellers who they believe may be dodging paying their fares.
>
> First Great Western wants concerned passengers to call the free phone
> number for Crimestoppers.
>


Why call Crimestoppers? Just tell the Conductor.

The commuters up here quite happily point out which ones regularly try to
get away with there fare.

Our Adopt a station lot are especially good at this.

-- 
http://europeanrailways.fotopic.net/
Any views or opinions expressed and presented are not those of the author
and do not represent those of his employers, they belong to the voices in
his head.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 05:36:32 GMT someone who may be Neil Sunderland
 quoted this:-


>About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
>costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.


I'm surprised it is as low as this.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen wrote:

> I'm surprised it is as low as this.



Perhaps it's monly 2% that get caught.  The others they don't know
about, so don't catch them.  After all, if they knew more people were
travelling without paying, they'd be able to stop them.

Or maybe that was just a figure pulled out of the air.

PhilD

--
<><

> >About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
> >costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.
> 
> I'm surprised it is as low as this.


Do you mean the "2%" or the "millions"?

> > About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
> > costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.
> >
> > Peter Standring, from the company, said: "Although we're already
> > successful at identifying and prosecuting fare evaders, using the
> > public's eyes and ears will help us be more efficient in ensuring that
> > money due to the industry is paid to the industry.

> I hope that anyone standing in for railway staff in this way will be
> paid for it and will receive the usual benefits, such as free travel ...


I'm sure that every penny saved in this way by the public's eyes and
ears will be gratefully ploughed back into providing services for the
public, and not diverted into fat cats' pockets.

:-)

Nick

On 17 Aug 2005 11:00:50 -0000 someone who may be Andrew Yarnwood
 wrote this:-


>> >About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
>> >costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.
>> 
>> I'm surprised it is as low as this.
>
>Do you mean the "2%" or the "millions"?


The former. I wonder how it compares with other expenses.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Neil Sunderland wrote:


> About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
> costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.


If they really are losing millions, then surely it would make sense to instigate 
barrier checks at more stations. I recently returned from a five day rail tour 
of Ireland. All but one of the stations we used featured entry barriers and 
careful scrutiny of tickets, and every train we travelled on was subject to at 
least one full on-board ticket check. As well as protecting revenue, this also 
keeps the yobs and the fare-dodgers out of the stations and off the trains.

(We only sampled the Inter-City network, no idea how suburban Dublin stations 
and services are handled).

Alan

"David Hansen"  wrote in message 
news:0t16g1hfg53kv15fo4kvg1u0a750k48u34@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 05:36:32 GMT someone who may be Neil Sunderland
>  quoted this:-
>
>>About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
>>costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.
>
> I'm surprised it is as low as this.
>


Not sure about other TOCs but on CT it seems a sensitive subject. They will 
not budge from their official figure of number of ticketless travellers. 
Local civil servants and others involved with transport planning however are 
convinced the CT figure understates the problem by a huge margin. How can 
local transport be planned when we don't really know how many passengers are 
using a rail corridor and developing new schemes is a challenge if the 
'official' figures are used for estimating future usage, whereas the real 
potential for a new service is much higher.

Bear in mind this is not necessarily fraud. In East Midlands it is largely 
the failure of CT to collect fares even when the passenger is sitting on 
train waving a 10 note.

David

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:58:37 GMT someone who may be "David
Thornhill"  wrote this:-


>Bear in mind this is not necessarily fraud. In East Midlands it is largely 
>the failure of CT to collect fares even when the passenger is sitting on 
>train waving a 10 note.


Indeed. They close or reduce the hours of ticket offices, don't
provide ticket machines, have few ticket barriers, don't always sell
tickets on the train (according to announcements a lot of "broken"
hand held ticket machines over the past year or so), pack trains so
full tickets can't be sold on the train and then moan that they are
losing income.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On 17 Aug 2005 00:42:29 -0700, MIG wrote in
, seen in
uk.railway:

> Neil Sunderland wrote:
> > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4157382.stm>
> >
> > A Wiltshire-based train company is asking its passengers to report
> > fellow travellers who they believe may be dodging paying their fares.
> >
> > First Great Western wants concerned passengers to call the free phone
> > number for Crimestoppers.
[...] 
> I hope that anyone standing in for railway staff in this way will be
> paid for it and will receive the usual benefits, such as free travel ...


If they're expecting a decent amount of free (or discounted) travel,
they'll be rather surprised.

They'd likely very quickly give up if the free travel was their
motive.

ISTR that Crimestoppers offers rewards upon conviction. I wonder if
that would apply in this case?

-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

> >About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
> >costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.

> I'm surprised it is as low as this.


Whilst on the other hand, as a frequent FGW passenger, I am surprised
it is as high as this, though I do not often travel on surburban
routes. Though, I assume that the majority of that 2% are on surburban
routes with Guards that do not check tickets or on DOO routes.

A.C.P. Crawshaw wrote:


>  All but one of the stations we used
> featured entry barriers and careful scrutiny of tickets, and every train 
> we travelled on was subject to at least one full on-board ticket check


I've often wondered how on earth ticket inspectors manage to 
remember who got on at which stations. Most guards IMX just ask to 
see tickets from people who joined the train since the previous 
inspection, which relies on a combination of the guard being able 
to remember everyone he/she inspected the tickets of before. This 
must be quite difficult. I have certainly on a number of occasions 
  been missed out by guards and had to call back to them to get my 
ticket stamped/punched/scribbled on.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:18:30 UTC, "Boogaloo" <morebeer@anytime.please>
wrote:

: The commuters up here quite happily point out which ones regularly try to
: get away with there fare.

How do they know? 

Ian


--

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:47:48 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:

: On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 05:36:32 GMT someone who may be Neil Sunderland
:  quoted this:-
: 
: >About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
: >costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.
: 
: I'm surprised it is as low as this.

Perhaps FGW don't carry many scousers?

Ian

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:36:30 UTC, "A.C.P. Crawshaw" 
 wrote:

: If they really are losing millions, then surely it would make sense to instigate 
: barrier checks at more stations.

I wonder how the fare revenue from, say, the Glasgow suburban network 
compares with the cost of collecting fares, checking tickets, staffing
barriers, handling cash and accounting. 

Ian

--

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ian Johnston wrote:


> I wonder how the fare revenue from, say, the Glasgow suburban network 
> compares with the cost of collecting fares, checking tickets, staffing
> barriers, handling cash and accounting. 


On trips which include the section between, say, Argyle Street and
Partick, I find that my ticket is almost always checked on the train.

Mostly, in practice, it seems to happen between approx. Exhibition 
Centre and Partick.  One time, I was just about to disembark at 
Partick but the conductor insisted on seeing my ticket.  I was hoping 
that the train was under his control and wouldn't over-carry me while 
I was fumbling in my pocket!!

How that compares with further out on the network, I don't know.

> I've often wondered how on earth ticket inspectors manage to 
> remember who got on at which stations. Most guards IMX just ask to 
> see tickets from people who joined the train since the previous 
> inspection, which relies on a combination of the guard being able 
> to remember everyone he/she inspected the tickets of before. This 
> must be quite difficult. I have certainly on a number of occasions 
>   been missed out by guards and had to call back to them to get my 
> ticket stamped/punched/scribbled on.


Why do you care if your ticket hasn't been stamped? You're obviously
honest, so you should be able to trust yourself to throw it away
instead of using it again!

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:35:43 +0100 someone who may be Tom Cumming
 wrote this:-


>I have certainly on a number of occasions 
>been missed out by guards and had to call back to them to get my 
>ticket stamped/punched/scribbled on.


I once showed my ticket to a guard, which he punched. He was then
called away to something else.

When he returned he demanded to see my ticket. I told him that this
was precisely the same ticket as he had seen a few minutes before
and that was the hole he had punched in it when he had seen it a few
minutes before. He seemed most upset and started making all sorts of
threatening words.

That is one of the reasons why I couldn't care less about such bods
now. They reap what they sew. Someone less determined to use the
railways would take the hint that they don't want any passengers.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

DERWENT Re: Commuters urged to report cheats
 Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:36:30 +0100, "A.C.P. Crawshaw"
 


>Neil Sunderland wrote:
>
>> About 2% of people travelling on the railways do so without a ticket
>> costing the industry "millions", First Great Western said.
>
>If they really are losing millions,


You cannot lose something you never had.



> then surely it would make sense to instigate 
>barrier checks at more stations. 



As we have discussed many times on here, checking tickets costs money,
so at some point short of checking 100% it ceases to be economic to do
this. All fGW are trying to do is move this level by employing unpaid
staff,

It smells.

PRAR
-- 
<http://www.i.am/prar/> and <http://prar.fotopic.net/>
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett
Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists.
NB Anti-spam measures in force
 - If you must email me use the Reply to address and not prar@deadspam.com

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:36:30 +0100, "A.C.P. Crawshaw"
 wrote:


>If they really are losing millions, then surely it would make sense to instigate 
>barrier checks at more stations.


You'd think so, wouldn't you?

Some TOCs evidently know better though...

On 17 Aug 2005 14:07:58 GMT, "Ian Johnston"
 wrote:


>Perhaps FGW don't carry many scousers?


Do you have comparative evidence of the fare-dodging rate of
Merseyrail as opposed to, say, an inner-suburban London railway?  If
not, do not make such offensive comments.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Sunderland wrote:


> A Wiltshire-based train company is asking its passengers to report
> fellow travellers who they believe may be dodging paying their fares.
>
> First Great Western wants concerned passengers to call the free phone
> number for Crimestoppers.
>
> The company said that it is particularly targeting business people and
> commuters who do not buy tickets for the full length of their journey.


Ah ok, so the gangs of feral youths will be safe then.

Chris

"Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
news:430388f4.2878679@news.tesco.net...

> On 17 Aug 2005 14:07:58 GMT, "Ian Johnston"
>  wrote:
>
>>Perhaps FGW don't carry many scousers?
>
> Do you have comparative evidence of the fare-dodging rate of
> Merseyrail as opposed to, say, an inner-suburban London railway?  If
> not, do not make such offensive comments.
>
> Neil
>
> -- 
> Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
> When replying please use neil at the above domain
> 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.
>
>

Just after penalty fares were introduced I arranged 8 surveys on inner 
suburban
      30th April 1992 thru to 19th November 1992

34905 passengers checked and the following was issued
      PF Issued 373

      Tickets 493

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:01:51 UTC, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

: On 17 Aug 2005 14:07:58 GMT, "Ian Johnston"
:  wrote:
: 
: >Perhaps FGW don't carry many scousers?
: 
: Do you have comparative evidence of the fare-dodging rate of
: Merseyrail as opposed to, say, an inner-suburban London railway?  If
: not, do not make such offensive comments.

Keep your wheels on. 


Ian

David Hansen wrote:



> I once showed my ticket to a guard, which he punched. He was then
> called away to something else.
> 
> When he returned he demanded to see my ticket. I told him that this
> was precisely the same ticket as he had seen a few minutes before
> and that was the hole he had punched in it when he had seen it a few
> minutes before. He seemed most upset and started making all sorts of
> threatening words.
> 


DH: "My man, this is _precisely_ the same ticket, and this is the _very 
same_ holr you punched in said item just a very few minutes ago!"

G: "Blimey squire, doncher take that flipping pompous attitude with me
or I'll chuck yer off me bleeding train."

In message <cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-DEW3LjIsXN3l@localhost>, Ian Johnston 
 writes

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:01:51 UTC, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
>Williams) wrote:
>
>: On 17 Aug 2005 14:07:58 GMT, "Ian Johnston"
>:  wrote:
>:
>: >Perhaps FGW don't carry many scousers?
>:
>: Do you have comparative evidence of the fare-dodging rate of
>: Merseyrail as opposed to, say, an inner-suburban London railway?  If
>: not, do not make such offensive comments.
>
>Keep your wheels on.
>
>
>Ian


Surely you mean:

<Harry Enfield Mode>

"Kam down, kam down......"

</Harry Enfield>

LOL
-- 
Regards,

James Christie

"Luck is my middle name," he said, indistinctly.
"Mind you, my first name is Bad."

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:45:23 UTC, James Christie 
 wrote:

: In message <cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-DEW3LjIsXN3l@localhost>, Ian Johnston 
:  writes

: >Keep your wheels on.

: Surely you mean:
: 
: <Harry Enfield Mode>
: 
: "Kam down, kam down......"
: 
: </Harry Enfield>
: 
: LOL

It's just that these scousers are so quick to take offence. And 
anything else that isn't tied down.

Ian

--

> :
> : <Harry Enfield Mode>
> :
> : "Kam down, kam down......"
> :
> : </Harry Enfield>
> :
> : LOL
>
> It's just that these scousers are so quick to take offence. And
> anything else that isn't tied down.
>
> Ian


The word you are looking for is CALM as in CALM DOWN, CALM DOWN.

I would have thought as you stereotype us all you would have noticed that 
much.

-- 
DAS,

All opinions are mine and mine alone
http://merseyjcn.fotopic.net/