Good evening,

The runner beans are growing nicely; however I've got a number of them that 
have grown too large and I haven't picked them because they'll almost 
certainly be 'stringy'.

Is it best to remove them and throw them on the compost heap, or if I let 
them grow can I eat the actual bean? - in the same way as you can eat whole 
broad beans when they're very young or leave them to grow into actual beans?

Many thanks,


Andrew

"Andrew Ross"  wrote in message
news:ddqkf6$nrg$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Good evening,
>
> The runner beans are growing nicely; however I've got a number of them
that
> have grown too large and I haven't picked them because they'll almost
> certainly be 'stringy'.
>
> Is it best to remove them and throw them on the compost heap, or if I
let
> them grow can I eat the actual bean? - in the same way as you can eat
whole
> broad beans when they're very young or leave them to grow into actual
beans?
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
> Andrew


Best to remove them so the energy will be directed into the development
of the rest of your crop.

Later in the season you can leave a few go to seed for next years crop.

Regards,
Emrys Davies.

The message <ddqkf6$nrg$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
from "Andrew Ross"  contains these words:


> The runner beans are growing nicely; however I've got a number of them that 
> have grown too large and I haven't picked them because they'll almost 
> certainly be 'stringy'.

> Is it best to remove them and throw them on the compost heap, or if I let 
> them grow can I eat the actual bean?


You *CAN* eat them, but the skins are very tough. Leave some at the end
of the season and try them - or save them for next year's seed. It's
best to pick beans before the vine invests lots of energy in bringing
the beans to maturity - energy which would be better invested in fresh
youn beans.

-- 
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

"Andrew Ross"  wrote in message 
news:ddqkf6$nrg$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
: Good evening,
:
: The runner beans are growing nicely; however I've got a number of them 
that
: have grown too large and I haven't picked them because they'll almost
: certainly be 'stringy'.
:
: Is it best to remove them and throw them on the compost heap, or if I let
: them grow can I eat the actual bean? - in the same way as you can eat 
whole
: broad beans when they're very young or leave them to grow into actual 
beans?
:
: Many thanks,
:
You're not supposed to eat them without boiling them first but I know some 
do eat them and have no harmful effects. You can allow them to mature on the 
plant to keep the seed for next year or remove them to encourage more flower 
and fresh beans

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:26:46 +0000 (UTC), "Robert"  wrote:

>"Andrew Ross"  wrote 
>: if I let
>: them grow can I eat the actual bean? - in the same way as you can eat 
>whole
>: broad beans when they're very young or leave them to grow into actual 
>beans?

>You're not supposed to eat them without boiling them first


For at least 10 mins ??
I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that that applied to the
coloured beans, the red/black/pink seeds only.
I think the white ones (Czar etc) are ok.


> but I know some 
>do eat them and have no harmful effects.


Depends upon quantity perhaps ?
The warnings that I read were addressed to vegetarians and sprouting-
seed eaters who do that sort of thing often !

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:26:46 +0000 (UTC), "Robert"  wrote:

>You're not supposed to eat them without boiling them first 


 I did some googling ( because I am growing various beans both for
green beans and for seed) :---

Phytohaemagglutinin
Red Kidney Bean (Phaseolus vulgaris) Poisoning,
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap43.html

Sounds frightening !
but section 6 of that page seems to suggest that it is not common,
and 9 suggests that it may not have been due to the beans anyway !

In article ,
please@dontbesilly.somewhere.com (WaltA) writes:
|> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:26:46 +0000 (UTC), "Robert"  wrote:
|> >You're not supposed to eat them without boiling them first 
|> 
|>  I did some googling ( because I am growing various beans both for
|> green beans and for seed) :---
|> 
|> Phytohaemagglutinin
|> Red Kidney Bean (Phaseolus vulgaris) Poisoning,
|> http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap43.html
|> 
|> Sounds frightening !
|> but section 6 of that page seems to suggest that it is not common,
|> and 9 suggests that it may not have been due to the beans anyway !

The reason that it is rare is that the toxin occurs in mature
beans, and much less or not at all in immature ones, and they
require extensive cooking to make them palatable.  A red kidney
bean boiled for a mere 10 minutes is edible but not eatable!

The one normal circumstance that can cause the problem is beans
cooked in a slow cooker on low, where the temperature may stay
at 70-80 Celcius for long enough to cook the bean - which is a
good many hours.  Hence the need to boil them first, or use the
cooker on high.

I don't know when the toxin develops, but I doubt VERY much that
any bean that is still eatable raw or lightly cooked contains
enough of the toxin to matter.  That is certainly true of broad
and soy beans.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

>mature
>beans, 
snip,
>and they
>require extensive cooking to make them palatable.


I think that you have never tasted a fresh mature bean seed straight
off the plant in late summer/early autumn !
I think you are still in that time warp when you discovered the
hessian sack of dried beans in the back of the covered waggon that
your granpappy had just driven across the high plains on his way to
the gold fields of California :)


>The one normal circumstance that can cause the problem is beans
>cooked in a slow cooker on low, where the temperature may stay
>at 70-80 Celcius for long enough to cook the bean - which is a
>good many hours.  Hence the need to boil them first, or use the
>cooker on high.


Yep, I'd go with that,, if we were talking about long-dried, to within
an inch of their lives, pulses.
but I dont think that the OP had that kind in mind ?


>  That is certainly true of broad


that may be so, but it aint in context


>and soy beans.


dunno, not tried them, dont think they do too well in our climate,
Some folk promote new cultivars that pander to modern desires, but I
still await actual results.

In article ,
WaltA  wrote:

>Nick Maclaren wrote:
>>mature
>>beans, 
>snip,
>>and they
>>require extensive cooking to make them palatable.
>
>I think that you have never tasted a fresh mature bean seed straight
>off the plant in late summer/early autumn !


Yes, I have.  Runner, French and broad.  In all cases, they are
hard (though not like dried ones) and taste strongly 'starchy',
which few people like.  While they need less cooking to eliminate
those characteristics than dried ones do, it is still 10-15 minutes
of boiling (rather than the 30-45 minutes for even soaked dried
beans).

Are you sure that you are not confusing fully swollen beans with
mature ones?  There is a considerable difference.

What I don't know is whether the swollen but immature beans contain
much of the toxin.  It is very possible that it develops with full
maturity - or it is possible that it develops earlier.


>I think you are still in that time warp when you discovered the
>hessian sack of dried beans in the back of the covered waggon that
>your granpappy had just driven across the high plains on his way to
>the gold fields of California :)


How did you guess his occupation? :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

> In article ,
> WaltA  wrote:
[...]
>> your granpappy had just driven across the high plains on his way
to
>> the gold fields of California :)
>
> How did you guess his occupation? :-)


Utterly OT, but maybe somebody else also likes squirrelling away bits
of irrelevantiana about people they sort-of know. One of my
great-grandfathers _was_ a gold-prospector in Oz: never made a
fortune, but survived, and fathered nine children on his occasional
visits home.

-- 
Mike.

On 17 Aug 2005 08:39:01 GMT, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

>Yes, I have.  Runner, French and broad.  In all cases, they are
>hard 


Rubbish ! :)
and may I remind the house Mr.Speaker of the post I made earlier about
soaked and sprouted beans consumed in vast quantity by the
long-haired-flower-behind-ear-bead-wearing brigade once-upon-a-time
</mace-waving>


>(though not like dried ones) and taste strongly 'starchy',


Umm, perhaps yes I suppose you could describe them slightly thus, but
I would not have !


>which few people like. 


speak for yourself ! ( but bear in mind that I am talking now in
particular of the Czar white runners (as per (one of) my original
posts) which I used to grow in quantity for exactly this purpose.


> While they need less cooking to eliminate
>those characteristics than dried ones do, it is still 10-15 minutes


exactly, You're fluffing now :))
if you remember, I did say 10min ?? The ?? was meant to indicate
"about" "am I right" "to taste"
So, now that we are bun-fighting over the details I propose dried-bean
filled socks at 10 paces, dawn tomorrow, and I conscript Rusty to be
my second
( Psst, Rusty - bring your home-made cannon :)  )


>Are you sure that you are not confusing fully swollen beans with
>mature ones?


Nope, I made no distinction, neither did Andrew or Robert, I believe,
I was just casting thoughts to the wind (so to speak, pun and beans
not intended ! honest) for them to snatch and run with to google if
they so desired.
But I assumed that we all knew that Andrew was awaiting his beans with
glee and keen interest and was unlikly to be drying them for
posterity.


>What I don't know is whether the swollen but immature beans contain
>much of the toxin.


No, me neither, but it would be a good project for our next PhD ?
I would assume, with not the lest bit of evidence,( but I'm not a
govmint minister, nor am I writing for Nature or Old Scientist so I
can be cavalier) that it would increase as the colour developed,
linear, cosinusoidally or exponentially I know not, but I doubt the
latter.


>  It is very possible that it develops with full
>maturity - or it is possible that it develops earlier.

Quite so.

>>your granpappy had just driven across the high plains on his way to
>>the gold fields of California :)
>How did you guess his occupation? :-)


perhaps because I'm an old has-bean as well ? :)

right then, sun is out, garden is inviting,
I declare I have nothing further to say (errr, maybe ;-)  )

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:42:58 +0100, Mike Lyle  wrote:


>great-grandfathers _was_ a gold-prospector in Oz: never made a
>fortune, but survived, and fathered nine children on his occasional
>visits home.


 We have an old Oz opel miner in our family, not married and no
(known) children.

In article ,
please@dontbesilly.somewhere.com (WaltA) writes:
|> On 17 Aug 2005 08:39:01 GMT, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
|> >Yes, I have.  Runner, French and broad.  In all cases, they are
|> >hard 
|> 
|> Rubbish ! :)
|> and may I remind the house Mr.Speaker of the post I made earlier about
|> soaked and sprouted beans consumed in vast quantity by the
|> long-haired-flower-behind-ear-bead-wearing brigade once-upon-a-time
|> </mace-waving>

Mostly mung beans - not now classified as even in genus Phaseolus.
I have never heard of runner beans being eaten that way, but did
try doing it with (white) French ones once.  The actual beans
remained unpalatable even after sprouting.

|> >(though not like dried ones) and taste strongly 'starchy',
|> 
|> Umm, perhaps yes I suppose you could describe them slightly thus, but
|> I would not have !

Well, if they taste only slightly starchy, they are not mature.
The physiology of Phaseolus beans is that they develop starch as
they mature.

|> > While they need less cooking to eliminate
|> >those characteristics than dried ones do, it is still 10-15 minutes
|> 
|> exactly, You're fluffing now :))

May I quote the paragraph from which you selectively snipped bits?

    The reason that it is rare is that the toxin occurs in mature
    beans, and much less or not at all in immature ones, and they
    require extensive cooking to make them palatable.  A red kidney
    bean boiled for a mere 10 minutes is edible but not eatable!

A swollen but immature French bean is a pale shadow of its final
colour - black ones are not black and red ones are not red.

|> if you remember, I did say 10min ?? The ?? was meant to indicate
|> "about" "am I right" "to taste"

I hope that your souffles are as fluffy as your postings!

|> >Are you sure that you are not confusing fully swollen beans with
|> >mature ones?
|> 
|> Nope, I made no distinction, neither did Andrew or Robert, I believe,
|> I was just casting thoughts to the wind (so to speak, pun and beans
|> not intended ! honest) for them to snatch and run with to google if
|> they so desired.

Well, if you are going to start assigning new meanings to English
words, there isn't much hope for you!  To quote you:

    Nick Maclaren wrote:
    >mature
    >beans, 
    snip,
    >and they
    >require extensive cooking to make them palatable.

    I think that you have never tasted a fresh mature bean seed straight
    off the plant in late summer/early autumn !


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Oh gosh, are we still here ?!


>Mostly mung beans


No, that is ordinary,
 most(?) people do mung beans

Sigh.


>I hope that your souffles are as fluffy as your postings!


Silly,
Anyway, I never make them, I leave that to the domestic staff !

The message 
from please@dontbesilly.somewhere.com (WaltA) contains these words:

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:42:58 +0100, Mike Lyle  wrote:

> >great-grandfathers _was_ a gold-prospector in Oz: never made a
> >fortune, but survived, and fathered nine children on his occasional
> >visits home.

>  We have an old Oz opel miner in our family, not married and no
> (known) children.


Coo! I didn't know they were mined: I thought they were made in Germany.

-- 
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

>>  We have an old Oz opel miner in our family, not married and no
>> (known) children.
>
>Coo! I didn't know they were mined: I thought they were made in Germany.


Oh gosh ! Well spotted that man
Hangs head in shame ->> shuffles off to look for sack-cloth and
ashes->>
  :-((

Didn't take us long to get back to mines tho' !!

The message 
from please@dontbesilly.somewhere.com (WaltA) contains these words:


> >>  We have an old Oz opel miner in our family, not married and no
> >> (known) children.
> >
> >Coo! I didn't know they were mined: I thought they were made in Germany.

> Oh gosh ! Well spotted that man
> Hangs head in shame ->> shuffles off to look for sack-cloth and
> ashes->>
>   :-((

> Didn't take us long to get back to mines tho' !!


Thanks. Mine's a pint of Adnams, please.

-- 
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

We wrote:

>> Hangs head in shame ->> shuffles off to look for sack-cloth and
>> ashes->>
>>   :-((
>
>> Didn't take us long to get back to mines tho' !!
>
>Thanks. Mine's a pint of Adnams, please.


ERROR : Your request could not be processed at this time.
Please inform your sysop of these possible causes :
(1)closed down by elfinsafety. Reason: too much ash and bits of
sackcloth in beer
(2)No Adnams on this server. Only Gnomemade* available at this time
(3)Attachments not permitted in this newsgroup
(4)No funds available
(5)*Its all mine :)

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 04:23:14 GMT, please@dontbesilly.somewhere.com
(WaltA) wrote:

~Nick Maclaren wrote:
~>mature
~>beans, 
~snip,
~>and they
~>require extensive cooking to make them palatable.
~
~I think that you have never tasted a fresh mature bean seed straight
~off the plant in late summer/early autumn !
~I think you are still in that time warp when you discovered the
~hessian sack of dried beans in the back of the covered waggon that
~your granpappy had just driven across the high plains on his way to
~the gold fields of California :)
~
~>The one normal circumstance that can cause the problem is beans
~>cooked in a slow cooker on low, where the temperature may stay
~>at 70-80 Celcius for long enough to cook the bean - which is a
~>good many hours.  Hence the need to boil them first, or use the
~>cooker on high.
~
~Yep, I'd go with that,, if we were talking about long-dried, to within
~an inch of their lives, pulses.
~but I dont think that the OP had that kind in mind ?
~
~>  That is certainly true of broad
~
~that may be so, but it aint in context
~
~>and soy beans.
~
~dunno, not tried them, dont think they do too well in our climate,
~Some folk promote new cultivars that pander to modern desires, but I
~still await actual results.

I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
oops.

Apparently when they are ripe, all the leaves fall off, with the pods
remaining on the plant for easy harvesting. I have no intention of
letting them get that ripe - I love edamame!

So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits. Seems to
be working!


jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

In article ,
jane  writes:
|> 
|> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
|> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
|> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
|> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
|> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
|> oops.

The ones I grew were that size, and were not shaded.  Incidentally,
I have had the same variety of French beans climb in a wet summer
that remain dwarf in a dry one.

|> Apparently when they are ripe, all the leaves fall off, with the pods
|> remaining on the plant for easy harvesting. I have no intention of
|> letting them get that ripe - I love edamame!

I ate mine half ripe, too.

|> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
|> are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
|> on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits. Seems to
|> be working!

I have to do that with all beans :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:

> In article ,
> jane  writes:
[...]
>>> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact
>>> they are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to
>>> chitting on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the
>>> chits. Seems to be working!
>
> I have to do that with all beans :-(


That's interesting. What causes the failures? I think you said you
were on sandy soil, so is it a matter of too-variable moisture
levels?

-- 
Mike.

In article ,
"Mike Lyle"  writes:
|>
|> >>> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact
|> >>> they are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to
|> >>> chitting on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the
|> >>> chits. Seems to be working!
|> >
|> > I have to do that with all beans :-(
|> 
|> That's interesting. What causes the failures? I think you said you
|> were on sandy soil, so is it a matter of too-variable moisture
|> levels?

A good question.  No, it's not that.  I think that it is a
combination of nematodes, which damage the very young shoots,
and a fungus, which causes the actual rot.  But I have no
proof.  Digging up the beans shows miniature millipedes, but
I have reason to believe that they are just there because the
bean has started to rot.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message 
from jane  contains these words:


> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
> oops.


The ones I grew a lot of years ago rose to the altitude of about twelve
inches.

-- 
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On 18 Aug 2005 10:23:34 GMT, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

~
~In article ,
~jane  writes:
~|> 
~|> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
~|> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
~|> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
~|> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
~|> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
~|> oops.
~
~The ones I grew were that size, and were not shaded.  Incidentally,
~I have had the same variety of French beans climb in a wet summer
~that remain dwarf in a dry one.

Curious. These were labelled as Tendergreen which is a bush on all
suppliers' sites. Perhaps there was a mix - either way they are going
to be grown for dried beans. I have more than I know what to do with
of dwarf ones in another bed... 

~
~|> Apparently when they are ripe, all the leaves fall off, with the pods
~|> remaining on the plant for easy harvesting. I have no intention of
~|> letting them get that ripe - I love edamame!
~
~I ate mine half ripe, too.

;-)

~|> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
~|> are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
~|> on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits. Seems to
~|> be working!
~
~I have to do that with all beans :-(

This year I had to do it for half the runners and all the soys despite
the heated propagator. The French beans took off, and I direct-sowed a
load under bottle cloches. I now can't shift for them. The runners
have also done better than ever before (4lbs on Monday from 14
plants), though this is the first year I've ever made a proper bean
trench (and made it a permanent bed). Just shows. 

Amazing what you get in glut and what refuses to grow in a given year.
I've got pickling onions instead of cricket balls yet again though
spuds, beans, courgettes and corn are all going barmy.

Just hope the blight stays off another couple of weeks so I can start
picking tomatoes!


jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:15:03 +0000 (UTC), jane wrote:

>I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
>via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
>are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.


 Thanks for interesting post, I'll be watching for your updates :)


>I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
>by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
>oops.


oops indeed :)
I prefer the climbing french to the dwarf ones, I can see the pods
easier and it is easier on my back as well ! Weeding the things seems
easier also.
We alternate between Blue Lake and Selma Zebra, with sometimes a
something else just for fun !


>I love edamame!


I had never heard of it (sheltered upbringing!) so I googled,
go on, convince me, that this is the missing reason that I have never
been able to understand, why folks struggle to grow soya when we have
perfectly good other varieties of bean that do well for us !! :-)))


>So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
>are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
>on damp kitchen roll in the end,


But that is not a prob. in my book, I always do that (damp kitchen
roll in ex marg containers) with my beans (and many other seeds also)
It means that I can easily keep an eye on the viability of my seed.
This years Selma Zebra, for example, is growing from seed I saved in
1995. Although it gave good germination (about 95% if I remember right
but I didn't make notes) a few of them ( a few more than I would have
liked) were a little week. So this year several plants have been
reserved for seed production.
Don't worry though, the 1995 lot is the grandfather set in the -father
-son reserves :)

Oh, and pre-germination means that I can pot up and then put out
exactly just enough plants without wondering "are they going to or are
they not" , "did the slugs(/mice/frost/etc) get them or did they not"
routines we go through when direct sown ! Then end up having to re-sow
a couple of weeks later when one or all of the above has happened and
thus end up being behind :)

The message 
from please@dontbesilly.somewhere.com (WaltA) contains these words:

/snip/


> >So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
> >are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
> >on damp kitchen roll in the end,

> But that is not a prob. in my book, I always do that (damp kitchen
> roll in ex marg containers) with my beans (and many other seeds also)
> It means that I can easily keep an eye on the viability of my seed.
> This years Selma Zebra, for example, is growing from seed I saved in
> 1995. Although it gave good germination (about 95% if I remember right
> but I didn't make notes) a few of them ( a few more than I would have
> liked) were a little week. So this year several plants have been
> reserved for seed production.
> Don't worry though, the 1995 lot is the grandfather set in the -father
> -son reserves :)


May I commend to the group the containers (I can't speak for the
contents) of Waitrose Yorkshire Puddings? They are about 140mm  160mmm
inside measurements, and 90mm high.

The container is divided into equal sized top and bottom halves, hinged
together. The top half is clear, and the bottom half black plasstic.
Lovely little propagators with a small amount of ventilation added. That
makes it as deep as a seed tray, and with a cover high enough to bring
on seedlings to around 30mm.

-- 
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message <de1nj6$mbi$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
from nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:



> In article ,
> jane  writes:
> |> 
> |> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
> |> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
> |> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
> |> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
> |> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
> |> oops.


> |> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
> |> are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
> |> on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits. Seems to
> |> be working!

> I have to do that with all beans :-(



I'm taking part in the HDRA trial too and, like Jane, had real problems
getting them to germinate. I started all 60+ seeds in roottrainers and
had only about 10 germinate. 
I've not had any problems with other beans.

Another time , I would know there would be problems with soya beans and
use the chitting method, but this time I had no seed left!

Janet G

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 02:00:14 +0100, Janet Galpin
 wrote:

~The message <de1nj6$mbi$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
~from nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
~
~
~> In article ,
~> jane  writes:
~> |> 
~> |> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
~> |> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
~> |> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
~> |> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
~> |> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
~> |> oops.
~
~
~> |> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
~> |> are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
~> |> on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits. Seems to
~> |> be working!
~
~> I have to do that with all beans :-(
~
~
~I'm taking part in the HDRA trial too and, like Jane, had real problems
~getting them to germinate. I started all 60+ seeds in roottrainers and
~had only about 10 germinate. 
~I've not had any problems with other beans.
~
~Another time , I would know there would be problems with soya beans and
~use the chitting method, but this time I had no seed left!

I had 73 usable seed and planted 40 of them to begin with - also in
roottrainers in a heated propagator and which only got watered once;
they still rotted.
I then had 33 left to chit, fortunately, of which I got about 25 to
grow by that method, and put them in small pots. I lost a couple more
to snails in the cold frame while hardening off, but the rest seem to
be ok.

I shall be giving an interesting report to the HDRA!


jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

The message 
from Jaques d'Alltrades  contains
these words:


> The message 
> from jane  contains these words:

> > I had 73 usable seed and planted 40 of them to begin with - also in
> > roottrainers in a heated propagator and which only got watered once;
> > they still rotted.
> > I then had 33 left to chit, fortunately, of which I got about 25 to
> > grow by that method, and put them in small pots. I lost a couple more
> > to snails in the cold frame while hardening off, but the rest seem to
> > be ok.

> > I shall be giving an interesting report to the HDRA!

> My one planting of soy beans many years ago (from beans bought by the
> pound...) was around 100% successful


Interesting but obviously quite unlike this current seed. Jane and I
have both had quite extreme difficulties with it.

 - but I never use a propagator for

> legumes because they rot easily. I use a seed tray and a 50/50 mix of
> sand and seed compost, and I do add a bit of fungicide to the initial
> watering though, and to another when the sprouts are emerging.


I have never found this to be necessary and wouldn't want to use
fungicide. I normally have almost 100% success with beans in
roottrainers which is why this soy bean trial stands out as so
exceptional.

Janet G

The message 
from jane  contains these words:


> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 02:00:14 +0100, Janet Galpin
>  wrote:

> ~The message <de1nj6$mbi$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
> ~from nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
> ~
> ~
> ~> In article ,
> ~> jane  writes:
> ~> |> 
> ~> |> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
> ~> |> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
> ~> |> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
> ~> |> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
> ~> |> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
> ~> |> oops.
> ~
> ~
> ~> |> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
> ~> |> are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
> ~> |> on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits. Seems to
> ~> |> be working!
> ~
> ~> I have to do that with all beans :-(
> ~
> ~
> ~I'm taking part in the HDRA trial too and, like Jane, had real problems
> ~getting them to germinate. I started all 60+ seeds in roottrainers and
> ~had only about 10 germinate. 
> ~I've not had any problems with other beans.
> ~
> ~Another time , I would know there would be problems with soya beans and
> ~use the chitting method, but this time I had no seed left!

> I had 73 usable seed and planted 40 of them to begin with - also in
> roottrainers in a heated propagator and which only got watered once;
> they still rotted.
> I then had 33 left to chit, fortunately, of which I got about 25 to
> grow by that method, and put them in small pots. I lost a couple more
> to snails in the cold frame while hardening off, but the rest seem to
> be ok.

> I shall be giving an interesting report to the HDRA!



I'm rather reassured that it wasn't just me but disappointed that they
aren't yet more suitable for general growing.

Janet G

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 03:28:28 +0100, Janet Galpin
 wrote:

~The message 
~from jane  contains these words:
~
~> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 02:00:14 +0100, Janet Galpin
~>  wrote:
~
~> ~The message <de1nj6$mbi$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
~> ~from nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
~> ~
~> ~
~> ~> In article ,
~> ~> jane  writes:
~> ~> |> 
~> ~> |> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie' from T&M
~> ~> |> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
~> ~> |> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly swelling.
~> ~> |> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to being shaded
~> ~> |> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being dwarf...
~> ~> |> oops.
~> ~
~> ~
~> ~> |> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the fact they
~> ~> |> are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to chitting
~> ~> |> on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits. Seems to
~> ~> |> be working!
~> ~
~> ~> I have to do that with all beans :-(
~> ~
~> ~
~> ~I'm taking part in the HDRA trial too and, like Jane, had real problems
~> ~getting them to germinate. I started all 60+ seeds in roottrainers and
~> ~had only about 10 germinate. 
~> ~I've not had any problems with other beans.
~> ~
~> ~Another time , I would know there would be problems with soya beans and
~> ~use the chitting method, but this time I had no seed left!
~
~> I had 73 usable seed and planted 40 of them to begin with - also in
~> roottrainers in a heated propagator and which only got watered once;
~> they still rotted.
~> I then had 33 left to chit, fortunately, of which I got about 25 to
~> grow by that method, and put them in small pots. I lost a couple more
~> to snails in the cold frame while hardening off, but the rest seem to
~> be ok.
~
~> I shall be giving an interesting report to the HDRA!
~
~
~I'm rather reassured that it wasn't just me but disappointed that they
~aren't yet more suitable for general growing.

Once I got them going, they have been incredibly tolerant of just
about everything. It was just getting them going! And my plants are
covered in fuzzy pods so should get a decent crop. Next year I shall
buy a packet (they were only 1.49!) and grow rather more, chitting
first, and plant them closer together than the 1' spacing they are
currently. I erred rather on the cautious side.

I also did their onion trial and it's been a total washout. But then
this year I've had pants onions full stop!


jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

The message 
from jane  contains these words:


> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 03:28:28 +0100, Janet Galpin
>  wrote:

> ~The message 
> ~from jane  contains these words:
> ~
> ~> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 02:00:14 +0100, Janet Galpin
> ~>  wrote:
> ~
> ~> ~The message <de1nj6$mbi$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
> ~> ~from nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
> ~> ~> In article ,
> ~> ~> jane  writes:
> ~> ~> |> 
> ~> ~> |> I am currently growing UK-developed non-GM soya bean 'Ustie'
> from T&M
> ~> ~> |> via the HDRA member's trial. I have a load of 15" high plants which
> ~> ~> |> are currently covered in tiny furry pods, with beans visibly
> swelling.
> ~> ~> |> I had thought they'd be taller, but that might be due to
> being shaded
> ~> ~> |> by some climbing French beans which were given to me as being
> dwarf...
> ~> ~> |> oops.
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
> ~> ~> |> So far I have not seen any problems with them apart from the
> fact they
> ~> ~> |> are pigs to get to germinate without rotting. I resorted to
> chitting
> ~> ~> |> on damp kitchen roll in the end, and planting up the chits.
> Seems to
> ~> ~> |> be working!
> ~> ~
> ~> ~> I have to do that with all beans :-(
> ~> ~
> ~> ~
> ~> ~I'm taking part in the HDRA trial too and, like Jane, had real problems
> ~> ~getting them to germinate. I started all 60+ seeds in roottrainers and
> ~> ~had only about 10 germinate. 
> ~> ~I've not had any problems with other beans.
> ~> ~
> ~> ~Another time , I would know there would be problems with soya beans and
> ~> ~use the chitting method, but this time I had no seed left!
> ~
> ~> I had 73 usable seed and planted 40 of them to begin with - also in
> ~> roottrainers in a heated propagator and which only got watered once;
> ~> they still rotted.
> ~> I then had 33 left to chit, fortunately, of which I got about 25 to
> ~> grow by that method, and put them in small pots. I lost a couple more
> ~> to snails in the cold frame while hardening off, but the rest seem to
> ~> be ok.
> ~
> ~> I shall be giving an interesting report to the HDRA!
> ~
> ~
> ~I'm rather reassured that it wasn't just me but disappointed that they
> ~aren't yet more suitable for general growing.

> Once I got them going, they have been incredibly tolerant of just
> about everything. It was just getting them going! And my plants are
> covered in fuzzy pods so should get a decent crop. Next year I shall
> buy a packet (they were only 1.49!) and grow rather more, chitting
> first, and plant them closer together than the 1' spacing they are
> currently. I erred rather on the cautious side.


That's encouraging. Mine are fine but I got them in rather late so they
haven't got to the pod-producing stage yet.

Perhaps they should just have germinating advice on the packet.


Janet G

The message 
from jane  contains these words:


>  Next year I shall
> buy a packet (they were only 1.49!) and grow rather more, chitting
> first, and plant them closer together than the 1' spacing they are
> currently. I erred rather on the cautious side.


ISTR planting mine 4" apart in a block, like broad beans.

OK, they were just soya beans from the Weigh 'n Save, but I got a
reasonable crop, but of rather small beans. It was quite a good year
though. (Late '60s or early '70s)

-- 
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:34:44 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
 wrote:

~The message 
~from jane  contains these words:
~
~>  Next year I shall
~> buy a packet (they were only 1.49!) and grow rather more, chitting
~> first, and plant them closer together than the 1' spacing they are
~> currently. I erred rather on the cautious side.
~
~ISTR planting mine 4" apart in a block, like broad beans.
~
~OK, they were just soya beans from the Weigh 'n Save, but I got a
~reasonable crop, but of rather small beans. It was quite a good year
~though. (Late '60s or early '70s)

Mmm thanks for this - didn't really get guidance on spacing. Next year
I think I'll compromise on 6" (and try to grow 4x as many plants :-)


jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!