What is the law on foglamps?  Anyone know?  I believe there has to be two.
Are the foglamps a part of the MOT?  If one is missing will the MOT pick it
up?

"top gear"  wrote in
news:42fa7637$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com: 


> What is the law on foglamps?  Anyone know?  I believe there has to be
> two. Are the foglamps a part of the MOT?  If one is missing will the
> MOT pick it up?
> 
> 
> 

You don't need two. Only the offside rear has to be working to pass the 
MOT. AFAIK, front ones are not part of the test.


-- 
Stuart Sharp

The message <42fa7637$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
from "top gear"  contains these words:


> What is the law on foglamps?  Anyone know?  I believe there has to be two.
> Are the foglamps a part of the MOT?  If one is missing will the MOT pick it
> up?


No, only one, but it's the old saw about whether it's fitted or not.

Many cars only have one, but visibly so from the outside. Clearly the
MOT bloke understands this. Where they sometimes get a bit wobbly is
when you've got a car which has the lenses for two but to which only one
was fitted. Most understand - but I've met a couple who had to have it
explained to 'em.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

top gear (nospamatall@nospamhere.com) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


> What is the law on foglamps?  Anyone know?  I believe there has to be
> two. Are the foglamps a part of the MOT?  If one is missing will the
> MOT pick it up?


Rear :-

One must be fitted to the offside or centre line, all cars first registered 
after 1/1/80. Must work only when headlights are on. Must have an internal 
tell-tale light.

Front :-

Not MOTable, even if fitted and broken. Turn 'em off. You look like a twat.

In message , 
Adrian  writes

>Front :-
>
>Not MOTable, even if fitted and broken. Turn 'em off. You look like a twat.


By way of confirmation, my car's just been for its first MOT with a 
badly cracked (but working) front fog light.  The car passed the test, 
but they flagged up the cracked light on a separate note.

-- 
David Thornber

David Thornber (news.nospam@talktalk.net) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


>>Front :-
>>
>>Not MOTable, even if fitted and broken.

> By way of confirmation, my car's just been for its first MOT with a 
> badly cracked (but working) front fog light.  The car passed the test,
> but they flagged up the cracked light on a separate note.


I shoud have said that I spoke from experience...

My ol' CX had both front fog lights physically broken when I bought it.

I did eventually replace both, because the broken/rusty units looked shit, 
but I never bothered to investigate why neither worked.

No MOT probs over the years I owned it.

The message <1123763750.fe0d43b54d755887b2adee8867b6e50e@teranews>
from David Thornber  contains these words:


> By way of confirmation, my car's just been for its first MOT with a 
> badly cracked (but working) front fog light.  The car passed the test, 
> but they flagged up the cracked light on a separate note.


That's for sharp edges, probably.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

In article <42fa7637$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, top gear 
says...

> What is the law on foglamps?  Anyone know?  I believe there has to be two.
> Are the foglamps a part of the MOT?  If one is missing will the MOT pick it
> up?
> 

Rear...one on the drivers side. Must be operational. In addition, there 
must be a warning lamp on the dashboard to indicate it is on such as an 
illuminated switch, and that must work too.


-- 
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room 
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

In article <1123763750.fe0d43b54d755887b2adee8867b6e50e@teranews>, 
David Thornber says...


> By way of confirmation, my car's just been for its first MOT with a 
> badly cracked (but working) front fog light.  The car passed the test, 
> but they flagged up the cracked light on a separate note.
> 

Front foglights are not a testable item.


-- 
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room 
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

In article , 
Adrian says...


> My ol' CX had both front fog lights physically broken when I bought it.
> 
> I did eventually replace both, because the broken/rusty units looked shit, 
> but I never bothered to investigate why neither worked.
> 
> No MOT probs over the years I owned it.
> 

You won;t. Front ones are not part of the MOT.

-- 
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room 
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

Conor  wrote on Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:06:13 +0100:

> In article <1123763750.fe0d43b54d755887b2adee8867b6e50e@teranews>, 
> David Thornber says...
> 
>> By way of confirmation, my car's just been for its first MOT with a 
>> badly cracked (but working) front fog light.  The car passed the test, 
>> but they flagged up the cracked light on a separate note.
>> 
> Front foglights are not a testable item.


Well yes.  That'd be why it's "confirmation"...

Did you _read_ the post you replied to (including the reply quoted in it)??

-- 
David Taylor

Conor (conor.turton@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : 


> You won;t. Front ones are not part of the MOT.


Yes, Conor.
Thank you, Conor.
I already said that, Conor.
Read the whole thread, Conor.

"Adrian"  wrote in message 
news:Xns96AF5574BDEBCadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...

> One must be fitted to the offside or centre line, all cars first 
> registered
> after 1/1/80. Must work only when headlights are on. Must have an internal
> tell-tale light.
>


Does that mean my '99 car is a fail? :-)

Sidelights on & rear foglights CAN'T be switched on.
Sidelights + front foglights on & rear foglights CAN be switched on.

Johnny (n@spam.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying
: 


>> One must be fitted to the offside or centre line, all cars first 
>> registered after 1/1/80. Must work only when headlights are on. Must 
>> have an internal tell-tale light.

> Does that mean my '99 car is a fail? :-)
> 
> Sidelights on & rear foglights CAN'T be switched on.
> Sidelights + front foglights on & rear foglights CAN be switched on.


Umm, no, because the rear fogs can't be turned on without the headlights 
on.

In message <42fbd17b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Johnny 
 writes

>"Adrian"  wrote in message
>news:Xns96AF5574BDEBCadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170...
>> One must be fitted to the offside or centre line, all cars first
>> registered
>> after 1/1/80. Must work only when headlights are on. Must have an internal
>> tell-tale light.
>>
>
>Does that mean my '99 car is a fail? :-)
>
>Sidelights on & rear foglights CAN'T be switched on.
>Sidelights + front foglights on & rear foglights CAN be switched on.
>

That's been the case on every car I've ever had that's had factory 
fitted front fogs.  They've all had a three position switch which did 
off/front/front & rear.

I remember a friend having a car (a Sierra I think) that had two 
separate switches.  Even so, the rears wouldn't work unless the fronts 
were on.  At least that's what he reckoned.

Whenever I've done my own after-fit front fog lights, I've wired them 
completely independently of the rears.  Not only is it much easier to 
do, but it means you can still use your rears for annoying the tit 
behind who's posing with his fronts on, without appearing to be the same 
sort of tit to the guy in front of you.

I think the requirement for fog lights is that they must only work when 
the side lights are on.  It's spots that must only work when (main beam) 
headlights are on.
-- 
David Thornber

David Thornber (news.nospam@talktalk.net) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying : 


>>Sidelights on & rear foglights CAN'T be switched on.
>>Sidelights + front foglights on & rear foglights CAN be switched on.

> That's been the case on every car I've ever had that's had factory 
> fitted front fogs.  They've all had a three position switch which did 
> off/front/front & rear.


Try driving non-German cars, then.


> I remember a friend having a car (a Sierra I think) that had two 
> separate switches.  Even so, the rears wouldn't work unless the fronts
> were on.  At least that's what he reckoned.


He probably had the front fogs perma-on with the sidies, so the rears 
wouldn't work without the fronts on...

All the non-German cars I've had with front fogs have had separate switches 
and have worked completely independently. It's only the Germans who insist 
on doing those silly three-position switches.


> I think the requirement for fog lights is that they must only work
> when the side lights are on.


I've had front fogs that work with dip or dip/main only, and had others 
that work with side/dip. Side/dip is the most sensible for fog - if the 
fog's severe enough that you need the front fogs, you definitely don't want 
main, and dip might be a problem, too.

Front fogs can be useful for "filling in" under main beam, though.

Adrian  wrote in
news:Xns96B0727E8C3CDadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170: 


> David Thornber (news.nospam@talktalk.net) gurgled happily, sounding
> much like they were saying : 
> 
>>>Sidelights on & rear foglights CAN'T be switched on.
>>>Sidelights + front foglights on & rear foglights CAN be switched on.
> 
>> That's been the case on every car I've ever had that's had factory 
>> fitted front fogs.  They've all had a three position switch which did
>> off/front/front & rear.
> 
> Try driving non-German cars, then.


My non-German Primera has this set-up. The switch is on the column stalk.

> 
>> I remember a friend having a car (a Sierra I think) that had two 
>> separate switches.  Even so, the rears wouldn't work unless the
>> fronts were on.  At least that's what he reckoned.
> 
> He probably had the front fogs perma-on with the sidies, so the rears 
> wouldn't work without the fronts on...
> 
> All the non-German cars I've had with front fogs have had separate
> switches and have worked completely independently. It's only the
> Germans who insist on doing those silly three-position switches.


Wrong. I can testify that it applies to Jap cars, too. Can't see what the 
problem is - if it's bad enough fog to require the rear light, then 
nobody's gonna get dazzled by the fronts. I do think that the switch 
should work rear first, front second though. Rears are for bad fog, 
fronts are only for extremely bad fog.

> 
>> I think the requirement for fog lights is that they must only work
>> when the side lights are on.


Mine is like this, but I think they should work with dipped headlights 
only. Never ceases to amaze me how many idiots use just sidelights on 
foggy winter mornings! What possible use are sidelights in fog ?! They 
don't even help other road users see you any sooner! Perhaps it comes 
from the days when nobody ever used headlights because they were 
considered 'cissys' if they did.

> 
> I've had front fogs that work with dip or dip/main only, and had
> others that work with side/dip. Side/dip is the most sensible for fog
> - if the fog's severe enough that you need the front fogs, you
> definitely don't want main, and dip might be a problem, too.
> 
> Front fogs can be useful for "filling in" under main beam, though.
> 

Front fogs with sidelights are best, but only if you have front fogs. 
Sidelights and no fogs is dangerous, IMHO, because nobody can see you 
coming!


-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu (nobody@home.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying : 


> Wrong. I can testify that it applies to Jap cars, too. 


Fairy muff. I've never had a Japanese car.


> Can't see what the problem is - if it's bad enough fog to require the 
> rear light, then nobody's gonna get dazzled by the fronts.


You're at the back of a string of vehicles. You want the rears on, not the 
fronts.


> Mine is like this, but I think they should work with dipped headlights
> only.


You've obviously never driven in REALLY bad fog, then - when even dip beam 
just bounces straight back at you. That's when front fogs *really* score.


> Sidelights and no fogs is dangerous, IMHO, because nobody can see you 
> coming!


Absolutely.

In message , 
Adrian  writes

>David Thornber (news.nospam@talktalk.net) gurgled happily, sounding much
>like they were saying :
>
>>>Sidelights on & rear foglights CAN'T be switched on.
>>>Sidelights + front foglights on & rear foglights CAN be switched on.
>
>> That's been the case on every car I've ever had that's had factory
>> fitted front fogs.  They've all had a three position switch which did
>> off/front/front & rear.
>
>Try driving non-German cars, then.
>

I've only ever had the one German car.  I scrapped it in 1989.  Yes, it 
did have the three position switch.


>> I remember a friend having a car (a Sierra I think) that had two
>> separate switches.  Even so, the rears wouldn't work unless the fronts
>> were on.  At least that's what he reckoned.
>
>He probably had the front fogs perma-on with the sidies, so the rears
>wouldn't work without the fronts on...
>

Nope, his stance on muppet use of fog lights has always been much the 
same as mine.  I didn't get to see it with my own eyes, but he reckoned 
the rears wouldn't work unless the fronts were on.


>All the non-German cars I've had with front fogs have had separate switches
>and have worked completely independently. It's only the Germans who insist
>on doing those silly three-position switches.
>

The French do it too.  Well Renault at least.  Our 95, 98, 02 Lagunas 
and 02 Clio have all had a 3 position collar on the indicator stalk, 
just inboard of the one that does the side and headlights.  It has the 
added bonus of automatically clicking off the rear fogs when you turn 
off the side lights (so they don't automatically come back on again next 
time you use normal lights.)  On the 02 Laguna, clicking the side/head 
lights back to off clicks off both rear and front fogs.  I'm not sure if 
the Clio is the same.


>> I think the requirement for fog lights is that they must only work
>> when the side lights are on.
>
>I've had front fogs that work with dip or dip/main only, and had others
>that work with side/dip. Side/dip is the most sensible for fog - if the
>fog's severe enough that you need the front fogs, you definitely don't want
>main, and dip might be a problem, too.
>
>Front fogs can be useful for "filling in" under main beam, though.

Apart from when you're supposed to use them (when they can be bloody 
handy if they're decent ones) I do occasionally find them useful on 
dark, wet roads with very poor road markings.

I first fitted fog lights to my Astra, after getting stuck in a real 
pea-souper on the A66. They were Hella Comet 550s, and they actually did 
a pretty good job the next time I got stuck in fog.  I stuck a cheap 
pair of Radyots on the Mazda (because they were the only ones I could 
find that looked right on it) and they were crap.  The factory fit 
Renault ones appear to be every bit as good as the Hellas, if not 
better.
-- 
David Thornber

Adrian  wrote in
news:Xns96B07BB8FDE4Eadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170: 


> Stu (nobody@home.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying : 
> 
>> Wrong. I can testify that it applies to Jap cars, too. 
> 
> Fairy muff. I've never had a Japanese car.
> 
>> Can't see what the problem is - if it's bad enough fog to require the
>> rear light, then nobody's gonna get dazzled by the fronts.
> 
> You're at the back of a string of vehicles. You want the rears on, not
> the fronts.
> 

I agree, but the fronts aren't hurting anything if it's foggy enough for 
rears, are they? There wouldn't be enough visibility for anyone to get 
dazzled.


>> Mine is like this, but I think they should work with dipped
>> headlights only.
> 
> You've obviously never driven in REALLY bad fog, then - when even dip
> beam just bounces straight back at you. That's when front fogs
> *really* score. 
> 

Sorry, I said that without thinking. I was thinking about visibility to 
others, but if you're front fogs are on, you *will* be visible :-) Must 
admit, I haven't driving in extremely bad fog, at least not for any 
significant amount of time. We don't seem to get it as much, these days. 
Certainly have never had any genuine need of front fogs.


>> Sidelights and no fogs is dangerous, IMHO, because nobody can see you
>> coming!
> 
> Absolutely.
> 




-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu (nobody@home.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying 
:


>>> Can't see what the problem is - if it's bad enough fog to require the
>>> rear light, then nobody's gonna get dazzled by the fronts.

>> You're at the back of a string of vehicles. You want the rears on, not
>> the fronts.

> I agree, but the fronts aren't hurting anything if it's foggy enough for 
> rears, are they? There wouldn't be enough visibility for anyone to get 
> dazzled.


You may not have a car behind you, but you may very well have a car 
immediately in front of you.

How would you like it if they thought "Ah, it's really foggy - I need my 
front fogs, so I'll lob my rears on too"?


>>> Mine is like this, but I think they should work with dipped
>>> headlights only.

>> You've obviously never driven in REALLY bad fog, then - when even dip
>> beam just bounces straight back at you. That's when front fogs
>> *really* score. 

> Sorry, I said that without thinking. I was thinking about visibility to 
> others, but if you're front fogs are on, you *will* be visible :-) Must 
> admit, I haven't driving in extremely bad fog, at least not for any 
> significant amount of time. We don't seem to get it as much, these days. 
> Certainly have never had any genuine need of front fogs.


I have a couple of times. Of course, neither time was while I was driving a 
car WITH them...

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:32:53 +0100, David Thornber
 wrote:


>In message , 
>Adrian  writes
>>Front :-
>>
>>Not MOTable, even if fitted and broken. Turn 'em off. You look like a twat.
>
>By way of confirmation, my car's just been for its first MOT with a 
>badly cracked (but working) front fog light.  The car passed the test, 
>but they flagged up the cracked light on a separate note.


This is exactly my problem, a cracked front fog light glass. However,
whereas I was earlier desperate to find a cheaper replacement than the
45 (plus VAT) that Fiat are asking, it now seems I don't need to
worry as far as the forthcoming MOT is concerned. Note, the glass is
only cracked, not hanging out!

MM

MM (kylix_is@yahoo.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying : 


> This is exactly my problem, a cracked front fog light glass. However,
> whereas I was earlier desperate to find a cheaper replacement than the
> 45 (plus VAT) that Fiat are asking, it now seems I don't need to
> worry as far as the forthcoming MOT is concerned. Note, the glass is
> only cracked, not hanging out!


Bit of gaffer tape should sort any slight risk of the tester taking 
exception to sharp edges.

"David Thornber"  wrote in message 
news:1123841304.4e6f53d16a6564ce65142efeeeca580e@teranews...

[snip]


> Whenever I've done my own after-fit front fog lights, I've wired them 
> completely independently of the rears.  Not only is it much easier to do, 
> but it means you can still use your rears for annoying the tit behind 
> who's posing with his fronts on, without appearing to be the same sort of 
> tit to the guy in front of you.


*cough*

:)

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com