Using the NRE site for early moring trains to London frequently comes
up with a connection of, say, 5 hours overnight at a connecting
station. Many of these connection show that a SVR is valid although the
London connection is a peak time train. Has anyone used a ticket of
this type and what reaction was received from the gripper on board?

In message , at 
08:11:35 on Mon, 8 Aug 2005, 1501  remarked:

>Using the NRE site for early moring trains to London frequently comes
>up with a connection of, say, 5 hours overnight at a connecting
>station. Many of these connection show that a SVR is valid although the
>London connection is a peak time train.


In what way does it "show" this validity? The NRE site is famous for 
suggesting routes where no sensible cost-effective ticketing exists, 
although they are the quickest.


>Has anyone used a ticket of
>this type and what reaction was received from the gripper on board?


-- 
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

> In message , at 
> 08:11:35 on Mon, 8 Aug 2005, 1501  remarked:
> 
>> Using the NRE site for early moring trains to London frequently comes
>> up with a connection of, say, 5 hours overnight at a connecting
>> station. Many of these connection show that a SVR is valid although the
>> London connection is a peak time train.
> 
> In what way does it "show" this validity? The NRE site is famous for 
> suggesting routes where no sensible cost-effective ticketing exists, 
> although they are the quickest.
> 
>> Has anyone used a ticket of
>> this type and what reaction was received from the gripper on board?


If you can get it to make reservations and book you on the train for the 
price of a SVR then try it, but otherwise I would imagine it's a fault 
with the NRES system.  Most SVR restrictions are based on what time the 
train gets to its destination rather than what time it leaves the origin.

If this wasn't the case, I could get a Saver from Guiseley to London, 
use (or claim to use) it on a service into Leeds after the last KX train 
has left in an evening, and then return to Leeds in the morning and 
travel down to Leeds in the morning peak and save myself 81.60 (as 
would everybody else!).

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 08:38:23 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:


>In message , at 
>08:11:35 on Mon, 8 Aug 2005, 1501  remarked:
>>Using the NRE site for early moring trains to London frequently comes
>>up with a connection of, say, 5 hours overnight at a connecting
>>station. Many of these connection show that a SVR is valid although the
>>London connection is a peak time train.
>
>In what way does it "show" this validity? The NRE site is famous for 
>suggesting routes where no sensible cost-effective ticketing exists, 
>although they are the quickest.
>

The relevant section of the National Fares Manual (Page E8, which is the
first page of Saver restrictions) states:

<quote>

Saver tickets are NOT valid:

+ for break of journey on single or outward portion other than to gain
access to station services. However, where it is necessary to change
trains at an intermediate station and there is no reasonable onward
connection the same day, the journey may be broken overnight and
continued the next morning.

</quote>

It doesn't explicitly state what restrictions apply in such cases, but
my personal opinion is that the normal restrictions would apply, just as
if you'd bought the ticket for the day you're completing the journey.

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

Barry Salter wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 08:38:23 +0100, Roland Perry 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>In message , at 
>>08:11:35 on Mon, 8 Aug 2005, 1501  remarked:
>>
>>>Using the NRE site for early moring trains to London frequently comes
>>>up with a connection of, say, 5 hours overnight at a connecting
>>>station. Many of these connection show that a SVR is valid although the
>>>London connection is a peak time train.
>>
>>In what way does it "show" this validity? The NRE site is famous for 
>>suggesting routes where no sensible cost-effective ticketing exists, 
>>although they are the quickest.
>>
> 
> The relevant section of the National Fares Manual (Page E8, which is the
> first page of Saver restrictions) states:
> 
> <quote>
> 
> Saver tickets are NOT valid:
> 
> + for break of journey on single or outward portion other than to gain
> access to station services. However, where it is necessary to change
> trains at an intermediate station and there is no reasonable onward
> connection the same day, the journey may be broken overnight and
> continued the next morning.
> 
> </quote>


What do they mean by "station services"?  I ask because a couple of 
years ago I had to break my journey (between London and Cambridge) at 
Stansted Airport to meet someone off a plane, and I took this to mean a 
saver return was not valid.  Given that the airport terminal and the 
station are the same building, could it not be argued that hanging 
around and meeting someone off a plane is using the "station service", 
and therefore not a break of journey?

Robin

In message <dda9tv$78q$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, at 14:09:18 on Tue, 9 
Aug 2005, R.C. Payne  remarked:

>What do they mean by "station services"?  I ask because a couple of 
>years ago I had to break my journey (between London and Cambridge) at 
>Stansted Airport to meet someone off a plane, and I took this to mean a 
>saver return was not valid.  Given that the airport terminal and the 
>station are the same building, could it not be argued that hanging 
>around and meeting someone off a plane is using the "station service", 
>and therefore not a break of journey?


If you were waiting on the platform, It seems unlikely that there would 
be a problem. But as I recall, there aren't any barriers, so how would 
they know?
-- 
Roland Perry

R.C. Payne wrote:


>> <quote>
>> 
>> Saver tickets are NOT valid:
>> 
>> + for break of journey on single or outward portion other than to gain
>> access to station services. However, where it is necessary to change
>> trains at an intermediate station and there is no reasonable onward
>> connection the same day, the journey may be broken overnight and
>> continued the next morning.
>> 
>> </quote>
> 
> What do they mean by "station services"?


I imagine (cynically) that this wording is designed to let you buy stuff
from retailers in the "shopping stations".

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, R.C. Payne wrote:


> What do they mean by "station services"?  I ask because a couple of 
> years ago I had to break my journey (between London and Cambridge) 
> at Stansted Airport to meet someone off a plane, and I took this to 
> mean a saver return was not valid.  Given that the airport terminal 
> and the station are the same building, could it not be argued that 
> hanging around and meeting someone off a plane is using the "station 
> service", and therefore not a break of journey?


Looks OK to me.  Depending on the time of day you *might* get better 
value by linking two tickets, however, than by buying one ticket end 
to end.  No, I haven't actually tried the options.  And if you did 
that, you'd have to travel back by the same route.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, Alan J. Flavell wrote:

[in reply to a question about a return trip between London and
Cambridge via Stansted Airport...]


> Looks OK to me.  Depending on the time of day you *might* get better 
> value by linking two tickets, however, than by buying one ticket end 
> to end.  No, I haven't actually tried the options.


I have played with the journey planner now, and it seems that if 
you're not returning the same day then there's nothing to be gained 
(in fact, quite a bit to be lost) by ticketing this in two parts, 
since there's no saver return option between London and Stansted 
Airport, as far as I can make out.

So your best bet, if the time of day allows it, is the end-to-end SVR 
at 24.90

Even if return is on the same day, then there's an end to end CDR 
which is cheaper than ticketing the two parts separately.  In all 
cases these fares are subject to time of day restrictions of course.

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

> On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, Alan J. Flavell wrote:
> 
> [in reply to a question about a return trip between London and
> Cambridge via Stansted Airport...]
> 
> 
>>Looks OK to me.  Depending on the time of day you *might* get better 
>>value by linking two tickets, however, than by buying one ticket end 
>>to end.  No, I haven't actually tried the options.
> 
> 
> I have played with the journey planner now, and it seems that if 
> you're not returning the same day then there's nothing to be gained 
> (in fact, quite a bit to be lost) by ticketing this in two parts, 
> since there's no saver return option between London and Stansted 
> Airport, as far as I can make out.
> 
> So your best bet, if the time of day allows it, is the end-to-end SVR 
> at 24.90
> 
> Even if return is on the same day, then there's an end to end CDR 
> which is cheaper than ticketing the two parts separately.  In all 
> cases these fares are subject to time of day restrictions of course.


This was a journey I did a couple of years ago.  As I assumed going to 
the airport counted as a break of journey, I couldn't do saver return to 
Cambridge.  I was advised by the man at my originating station after 
much consideration to do saver return to Bishops Stortford and singles 
between there and Cambridge (valid via the airport), and accept having 
to return on the Liverpool St line.  I was actually starting from 
Gravesend, not London.

Robin

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, R.C. Payne wrote:


> This was a journey I did a couple of years ago.  As I assumed going 
> to the airport counted as a break of journey, I couldn't do saver 
> return to Cambridge.


Yessir, I understand what you're saying.  I think if you go back on 
this thread you'll find some discussion of the idea that meeting 
someone off a flight, for example, could be parsed as "access to the 
station facilities" at Stansted Airport station, in which case it 
would not count as a break of journey (ignore the "overnight" in the 
subject line, the thread had already drifted away from that detail).  
Anyway, I was responding on the basis of that idea.

cheers