Partly a shameless plug I suppose but also a request for information.

I've been working on a basic web-presence for the locomotives, cranes
and wagons that can be found on the railway network inside Chatham
Historic Dockyard in Kent.

It can be found at:
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/dockyardrailway

There is more to add when I get a round tuit, but I'd be particularly
interested in any further information that anyone might have of the
history of the Hawthorn Leslie 0-4-0ST of 1912, now called 'Achilles'.

New to Blyth Docks it also spent sometime at the Yorkshire Dales
Railway where it was named 'Pony'. 

If you can fill in any detail of her history I'd be pleased to hear
from you at the (spam-trapped) e-mail address in the header.

Two locomotives will be in steam this weekend, Sat and Sun 5th and 6th
August operating demonstration freight services. There is no passenger
stock at the Historic Dockyard, Chatham.

Thanks,

Andy V.

--

Delete 'nospam' for e-mail.

Andy wrote:


Can't help at all I am afraid but may I mither you with a [off topic]
question ?


Are you very familiar with the marine exhibits there, in particular
Ocelot ?


What I would like to know is how free is the exhibit to roam around
i.e. is it a free wander around inside (even if there are arrows to
follow) and go around again if required, or is it all guided ? I don't
like guided tours full stop. 


--
Nick

On 5 Aug 2005 14:22:20 -0700, "D7666"  wrote:


>Are you very familiar with the marine exhibits there, in particular
>Ocelot ?
>
>What I would like to know is how free is the exhibit to roam around
>i.e. is it a free wander around inside (even if there are arrows to
>follow) and go around again if required, or is it all guided ? 


No problem. I've no idea 'off the top' I'm afraid, but I'm there this
weekend (6th & 7th, not 5th &  6th as I originally posted, doh) so
I'll find out and reply again in a few days time.

Andy. 

--

Delete 'nospam' for e-mail.

Andy wrote:


> No problem. I've no idea 'off the top' I'm afraid, but I'm there this
> weekend (6th & 7th, not 5th &  6th as I originally posted, doh) so
> I'll find out and reply again in a few days time.


Thanks !!!

--
Nick

"D7666"  wrote in message
news:1123276940.020957.163250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


> Can't help at all I am afraid but may I mither you with a [off topic]
> question ?
>
>
> Are you very familiar with the marine exhibits there, in particular
> Ocelot ?
>
>
> What I would like to know is how free is the exhibit to roam around
> i.e. is it a free wander around inside (even if there are arrows to
> follow) and go around again if required, or is it all guided ? I don't
> like guided tours full stop.
>

Chatham Dockyard Museum is free to roam around once you have paid for that
days entry. That said, HMS Ocelot and HMS Cavalier are guided tours only,
AFAIK.

Andy, interesting site which explains a lot of what I saw on my visit last
summer. Any chance of you explaining how the Dockyard line was linked to the
rest of the world?

Nick

Nick Pedley wrote:

> Andy, interesting site which explains a lot of what I saw on my visit last
> summer. Any chance of you explaining how the Dockyard line was linked to the
> rest of the world?
>
> Nick



A connection spurred off to the east of Gillingham station, on the down
line of the ex-London Chatham & Dover Railway main route to Faversham,
and in fact still does. It can only be accessed if travelling in the
'up' direction, but on the down line (I hope that makes sense) However,
this Standard Gauge connection met the dockyard's narrow gauge system
when it opened in 1877. After World War I, Standard Gauge had taken
over from narrow gauge in the dockyards - I use the plural because the
Merchant Navy exclusively used 'Basin 3', whilst the Royal Navy had the
shipbuilding yards, the surviving Georgian buildings and Basins 1 and 2
(all three which create St Mary's Island). The Navy moved out in 1984,
but Basin 3 remained for commercial shipping, and this is where the
British Rail connection was truncated to. St Mary's Island subsequently
became a housing estate.

The Georgian-era structures and shipbuilding sheds were earmarked for
preservation, and a good proportion of the surviving internal railway
network came with this (the Tudor-era dockyard had long gone). There
are sets of points which are permanently ceased, but
strategically-located others are working, to allow trains to run.
Passenger stock was available at the site in 1985, two old Underground
coaches belonging to the North Downs Steam Railway, before this group
found a permanent site at Stone in Dartford, Kent.

The last time I visited, the steam locomotives were situated in the
most westerly of the shipbuilding sheds. Out the front was a diesel
locomotive and various railway cranes, whilst a pleasing line of wagons
were parked in a siding.

The InterCity wrote:

> Nick Pedley wrote:



AFAIK the last railtour that might have gone there was a SEG DEMU tour
- but I did not know the layout to say how far it went.

ISTR the kettle was in steam and buffered up against the DEMU to give
it a faked push on departure.

See Six Bells :

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/

for 20/04/85 but it does not refer to the kettle, presumably as the
reporter of this tour did not report it. Or I am cinfusing this event
with something else.

I believe the last revenue earning trains on the access line towards
the dockyard were some time in the early 1990s when the line was
restored to operation for the purposes of clearing out dangerous waste
[asbestos contaminated I think it was] for dumping wherever they dump
such stuff. Again I do not know how far this restored track led.

--
Nick

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 23:15:53 +0100, "Nick Pedley"
 wrote:



>
>Andy, interesting site which explains a lot of what I saw on my visit last
>summer. Any chance of you explaining how the Dockyard line was linked to the
>rest of the world?
>
>Nick
>

Just behind my house, east of Gillingham Station. The line is still
used once or twice a week with a Class 66 and a few freight wagons.

KC

On 6 Aug 2005 15:47:00 -0700, "D7666"  wrote:


>
>The InterCity wrote:
>> Nick Pedley wrote:
>
>
>AFAIK the last railtour that might have gone there was a SEG DEMU tour
>- but I did not know the layout to say how far it went.
>
>ISTR the kettle was in steam and buffered up against the DEMU to give
>it a faked push on departure.


No, it was a real push!  The DEMU engines were idle until the dock
gates were reached.

-- 
Peter Lawrence

On 5 Aug 2005 14:22:20 -0700, "D7666"  wrote:


>Are you very familiar with the marine exhibits there, in particular
>Ocelot ?
>
>What I would like to know is how free is the exhibit to roam around
>i.e. is it a free wander around inside (even if there are arrows to
>follow) and go around again if required, or is it all guided ? I don't
>like guided tours full stop.


I'm with you on your view of guided tours versus 'roam at will' but
I'm sorry to report that, as another poster suspected, access is
through the regular guided tours. 

Andy. 

--

Delete 'nospam' for e-mail.

Kentish Contractor wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 23:15:53 +0100, "Nick Pedley"
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>Andy, interesting site which explains a lot of what I saw on my visit last
>>summer. Any chance of you explaining how the Dockyard line was linked to the
>>rest of the world?
>>
>>Nick
>>
> 
> Just behind my house, east of Gillingham Station. The line is still
> used once or twice a week with a Class 66 and a few freight wagons.
> 
> KC

My son works at the Historic Dockyard and visits to the Ocelot are 
escorted for health and safety reasons, it is very tight and no 
alternative routes through it anyway - lots of opportunity to bang your 
head (expect helmets to be required if H&SE get to hear about it).

The rail into the historic dockyard was severed many years ago (after 
the tour mentioned about) and when the removal of the top 2 metres or so 
of St Mary's Island was completed - there are road and buildings over 
that route now. However the branch does still exist and is used into the 
remaining commercial Chatham/Gillingham Dock (number 1 basin of the 
original dockyard).

Chris

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:46:53 +0100, Chris Fribbins
 wrote:


>Kentish Contractor wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 23:15:53 +0100, "Nick Pedley"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Andy, interesting site which explains a lot of what I saw on my visit last
>>>summer. Any chance of you explaining how the Dockyard line was linked to the
>>>rest of the world?
>> 
>> Just behind my house, east of Gillingham Station. The line is still
>> used once or twice a week with a Class 66 and a few freight wagons.
>> 
>The rail into the historic dockyard was severed many years ago (after 
>the tour mentioned about) and when the removal of the top 2 metres or so 
>of St Mary's Island was completed - there are road and buildings over 
>that route now. However the branch does still exist and is used into the 
>remaining commercial Chatham/Gillingham Dock (number 1 basin of the 
>original dockyard).


Assuming it is possible somehow to scan a large paper document into a
suitable format (pdf?) and upload it to the web site, I hope (in time)
to be able to include a map of the 17-mile rail network that existed
before Chatham Dockyard ceased to be a Naval Base.

Andy.

--

Delete 'nospam' for e-mail.

Peter Lawrence wrote:


> >ISTR the kettle was in steam and buffered up against the DEMU to give
> >it a faked push on departure.
>
> No, it was a real push!  The DEMU engines were idle until the dock
> gates were reached.



Sorry to dis-agree, but the DEMU was under power from the point of
moving off from stationary all the way. I was one of the SEG organisers
, and was in the leading DEMU cab on the east end of the train on
departure.

That does not rule out the kettle powering, but no way was it doing so
on its own.


I never knew how they were supposed to have acheived this anyway ,
since DEMU run around with the buckeye up and buffers retracted, and, I
do not recall them altering that.

--
Nick

Andy wrote:



>
> I'm with you on your view of guided tours versus 'roam at will' but
> I'm sorry to report that, as another poster suspected, access is
> through the regular guided tours.



Thanks for that , doubt I'll go there then.


I like to wander at will, stopping and going back to things that
interest me. Warrior and Belfast are both roam at will, or at least
they were when I did them.


--
Nick

On 7 Aug 2005 17:20:01 -0700, "D7666"  wrote:


>
>Peter Lawrence wrote:
>
>> >ISTR the kettle was in steam and buffered up against the DEMU to give
>> >it a faked push on departure.
>>
>> No, it was a real push!  The DEMU engines were idle until the dock
>> gates were reached.
>
>
>Sorry to dis-agree, but the DEMU was under power from the point of
>moving off from stationary all the way. I was one of the SEG organisers
>, and was in the leading DEMU cab on the east end of the train on
>departure.


I can't argue with that, having been in the rear coach as  passenger.


>That does not rule out the kettle powering, but no way was it doing so
>on its own.


It can't have made the noise it did without producing some power!
Some staff from Gillingham depot, having a free ride, also seemed
impressed.

..
-- 
Peter Lawrence

Chris Fribbins wrote:


> The rail into the historic dockyard was severed many years ago (after
> the tour mentioned about) and when the removal of the top 2 metres or so
> of St Mary's Island was completed - there are road and buildings over
> that route now. However the branch does still exist and is used into the
> remaining commercial Chatham/Gillingham Dock (number 1 basin of the
> original dockyard).



The commercial area is centred around Basin 3, where the British Rail
connection terminates. This was even the case during the Royal Navy
era.

The InterCity wrote:

> Chris Fribbins wrote:
> 
> 
>>The rail into the historic dockyard was severed many years ago (after
>>the tour mentioned about) and when the removal of the top 2 metres or so
>>of St Mary's Island was completed - there are road and buildings over
>>that route now. However the branch does still exist and is used into the
>>remaining commercial Chatham/Gillingham Dock (number 1 basin of the
>>original dockyard).
> 
> 
> 
> The commercial area is centred around Basin 3, where the British Rail
> connection terminates. This was even the case during the Royal Navy
> era.
> 

Sorry got one and three reversed. The connection into the Historic 
Dockyard has gone however.

Chris