At my local station today, women approaches ticket office and says she
wants to go from Leeds-Liverpool one day, Liverpool-Manchester next day,
then finally Manchester - Leeds the next day.  The ticket guy advised
her that she should buy two returns, one saver return from
Leeds-Manchester then another from Manchester-Liverpool.

Am I not correct in thinking she could have just bought a saver return
from Leeds-Liverpool due to the fact that one or more breaks of journey
are allowed on the return leg?

Having said this, in this situation I imagine it would be difficult to
tell if the gripper's stamp was specifically from the
Liverpool-Manchester leg (same train) meaning a Manchester-Leeds gripper
the next day may refuse to acknowledge the break of journey??

Brian

Brian Harper wrote:

> At my local station today, women approaches ticket office and says she
> wants to go from Leeds-Liverpool one day, Liverpool-Manchester next day,
> then finally Manchester - Leeds the next day.  The ticket guy advised
> her that she should buy two returns, one saver return from
> Leeds-Manchester then another from Manchester-Liverpool.
> 
> Am I not correct in thinking she could have just bought a saver return
> from Leeds-Liverpool due to the fact that one or more breaks of journey
> are allowed on the return leg?


Yes, you're correct.


> Having said this, in this situation I imagine it would be difficult to
> tell if the gripper's stamp was specifically from the
> Liverpool-Manchester leg (same train) meaning a Manchester-Leeds gripper
> the next day may refuse to acknowledge the break of journey??


The chances of the gripper querying this is fairly remote, especially if 
the Manchester-Leeds services she's on started in Manchester, they'd 
just assume that the first stamp was on the Liverpool-Manc leg.  If it 
was queried, just saying "I broke my journey in Manchester" should suffice.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:36:02 GMT, Brian Harper
 wrote:


>At my local station today, women approaches ticket office and says she
>wants to go from Leeds-Liverpool one day, Liverpool-Manchester next day,
>then finally Manchester - Leeds the next day.  The ticket guy advised
>her that she should buy two returns, one saver return from
>Leeds-Manchester then another from Manchester-Liverpool.
>
>Am I not correct in thinking she could have just bought a saver return
>from Leeds-Liverpool due to the fact that one or more breaks of journey
>are allowed on the return leg?


Correct. Can make as many as you like on the Return, but none on the
outward.


>Having said this, in this situation I imagine it would be difficult to
>tell if the gripper's stamp was specifically from the
>Liverpool-Manchester leg (same train) meaning a Manchester-Leeds gripper
>the next day may refuse to acknowledge the break of journey??


The solution being to get the gripper on the Liverpool - Manchester
train to endorse the ticket "Used to Manchester <date>" (or similar, I
can't remember the exact wording required by the Ticket Examiner's
Handbook).

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

On  3-Aug-2005, Brian Harper  wrote:


> At my local station today, women approaches ticket office and says she
> wants to go from Leeds-Liverpool one day, Liverpool-Manchester next
> day,
> then finally Manchester - Leeds the next day.  The ticket guy advised
> her that she should buy two returns, one saver return from
> Leeds-Manchester then another from Manchester-Liverpool.
>
> Am I not correct in thinking she could have just bought a saver return
> from Leeds-Liverpool due to the fact that one or more breaks of
> journey
> are allowed on the return leg?
>
> Having said this, in this situation I imagine it would be difficult to
> tell if the gripper's stamp was specifically from the
> Liverpool-Manchester leg (same train) meaning a Manchester-Leeds
> gripper
> the next day may refuse to acknowledge the break of journey??
>
> Brian


What she should do is tell the gripper between Liverpool and Manchester
that she is getting off at Manchester and continuing to Leeds later on.

Depending on his frame of mind the gripper may then:-

a:  Give her the ticket back unstamped..
b.  Stamp the ticket
c.  Make some endorsement on the ticket with or without a stamp.

What he is supposed to do I do not know, but if she has a query by the
second gripper and least she can tell him she told the first, who should
if asked later remember the conversation.

I used to regularly travel from Crewe to Lancaster on  Friday using a
saver.  Coming back I would break my journey at Wigan and resume Sunday
evening.  All the above alternatives happened one time or another, but
the second gripper never queried anything.

I do not do this journey anymore.  Last winter I got fed up of being
stuck on a bus in a traffic jam on the M6.

Malcolm

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:36:02 GMT, Brian Harper
 wrote:


>Am I not correct in thinking she could have just bought a saver return
>from Leeds-Liverpool due to the fact that one or more breaks of journey
>are allowed on the return leg?

Yes.

>Having said this, in this situation I imagine it would be difficult to
>tell if the gripper's stamp was specifically from the
>Liverpool-Manchester leg (same train) meaning a Manchester-Leeds gripper
>the next day may refuse to acknowledge the break of journey??


IMX, you are rarely questioned so long as the BoJ is reasonable and
doesn't look obviously like fare-dodging.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , at 21:13:55 on Wed, 3 Aug 
2005, Mark Morton  remarked:

>> Having said this, in this situation I imagine it would be difficult to
>> tell if the gripper's stamp was specifically from the
>> Liverpool-Manchester leg (same train) meaning a Manchester-Leeds gripper
>> the next day may refuse to acknowledge the break of journey??
>
>The chances of the gripper querying this is fairly remote, especially 
>if the Manchester-Leeds services she's on started in Manchester, they'd 
>just assume that the first stamp was on the Liverpool-Manc leg.


What is this "stamp" of which you speak? Tickets round here, even on the 
posh MML, get a squiggle from a biro.


>If it was queried, just saying "I broke my journey in Manchester" 
>should suffice.


If the squiggle is inconclusive (I've never seen one that wasn't) then 
natural justice says the traveller should get the benefit of the doubt.
-- 
Roland Perry

Brian Harper wrote:

> 
> Am I not correct in thinking she could have just bought a saver return
> from Leeds-Liverpool due to the fact that one or more breaks of journey
> are allowed on the return leg?


She could, and she would have saved all of 40p.

From the NRES website:

Leeds to Liverpool Return -  SAVER RETURN  24.80 GBP
Leeds to Manchester Return - SAVER RETURN  14.60 GBP
Manchester to Liverpool Return - SAVER RETURN  10.60 GBP

And it's worth noting that some TransPennine journeys are /more/
expensive if you buy a through ticket. Such are the vagaries of our
ticketing system.

I wonder if the circumstances are precisely as the OP describes them.
Might the lady have been travelling back from Liverpool to Manchester on
the same day as the outward journey? If so, a Saver + a Cheap Day Return
(8 pounds) would be cheaper than a throughout Saver.
-- 
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
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