Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-

http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp

John.

"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...

> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-
>
> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp


Yikes! Gets the message across pretty forcefully though.

In article , Carl Bowman <carlbowmanwith
outspam@gmx.co.uk> writes

>"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>news:dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
>> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-
>>
>> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp
>
>Yikes! Gets the message across pretty forcefully though.
>
>


This one was for real;(....

http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/lirr/pubs/video/Crossing.htm
-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer  writes

>In article , Carl Bowman <carlbowmanwith
>outspam@gmx.co.uk> writes
>>"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
>>> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-
>>>
>>> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp
>>
>>Yikes! Gets the message across pretty forcefully though.
>>
>>
>
>This one was for real;(....
>
>http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/lirr/pubs/video/Crossing.htm

Oh my bloody toes turned up with the scene at the end.

"tony sayer"  wrote in message 
news:JLsBMsDkN17CFwau@bancom.co.uk...

> In article , Carl Bowman <carlbowmanwith
> outspam@gmx.co.uk> writes
>>"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
>>> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-
>>>
>>> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp
>>
>>Yikes! Gets the message across pretty forcefully though.
>>
>>
>
> This one was for real;(....
>
> http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/lirr/pubs/video/Crossing.htm



They are ALL very impressive, but if you showed them over here people would 
be claiming Compensation for "Post advert stress" or something else to keep 
the Legal people in Ferrari's.

KW

The message <dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
from "John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> contains these words:


> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-

> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp


Might frighten somebody - they'd be given an "X" certificate over here...

The big question is: How effective will they prove to be?

-- 
Dave,                                     
Frodsham

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:14:17 +0100 someone who may be David Jackson
 wrote this:-


>The big question is: How effective will they prove to be?


I think BR tried the gory approach in schools at one time and
decided that it didn't work particularly well. However, in these
days of computer generated images it might be more effective.

Imagination is often a better thing and these adverts perhaps strike
the right balance.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:14:17 +0100, David Jackson 
wrote:


>The message <dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>
>from "John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> contains these words:
>
>> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-
>
>> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp
>
>Might frighten somebody - they'd be given an "X" certificate over here...
>
>The big question is: How effective will they prove to be?


These types of ads were pioneered by the Victorian "Transport Accident
Commission". 

http://www.tacsafety.com.au

A brief report on the efficacy of the such graphic advertisement by Monash
University can be found at:
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc052.html
although other reports may differ on just how effective it is - especially
in the long term.

I believe that similar graphic road accident advertisements have been shown
on UK TV.

Les Brown

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:28:43 GMT, Les Brown wrote:


> I believe that similar graphic road accident advertisements have been shown
> on UK TV.


Certainly the recent campaigns against drink-driving and speeding in 30
zones have been graphic enough. But AFAIR it's been decades since there
were adverts warning about level crossings, and things were much milder
back then. ("The next programme may not be suitable for viewers of a
nervous disposition" etc...)

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14104761.html
(66 138 at Winwick, 10 Mar 2005)

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:40:57 +0100, David Hansen
 wrote:


>I think BR tried the gory approach in schools at one time and
>decided that it didn't work particularly well.


I still haven't forgotten the third-rail one I was shown at primary
school.  It wasn't overly gory as such, but the imagination of a young
child made everything perfectly clear as to what had happened.

Possibly as a result, while I am guilty of messing around on the
station platform on occasions as a youngish child, for just about all
of us there was a magic force field at the platform edge, and walking
on the line was just *not* done.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:11:37 GMT, Chris Tolley  wrote:


>On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:28:43 GMT, Les Brown wrote:
>
>> I believe that similar graphic road accident advertisements have been shown
>> on UK TV.
>
>Certainly the recent campaigns against drink-driving and speeding in 30
>zones have been graphic enough. But AFAIR it's been decades since there
>were adverts warning about level crossings, and things were much milder
>back then. ("The next programme may not be suitable for viewers of a
>nervous disposition" etc...)


Because of our tradition of "hard-hitting" ads and the number of deaths in
recent years at level crossings, it was probably felt to be appropriate to
unleash the campaign on the general public.

Accidents such as these:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/rail/reports/report_detail.cfm?ID=6 
(South Australia)

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/LTASinfo.nsf/index/railsafety_reports_aloomba
(Queensland)

http://www.railpage.com.au/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=940
(Victoria)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerogery_level_crossing_accident 
(New South Wales).

Nearly all level crossings located within city suburbs are either half-boom
gates or just warning bells alone. Melbourne has nearly 480 within the
suburban area, one of which is still hand-operated! Australia is rightfully
concerned about the number of this type of rail accidents.

What's it like in the UK? We heard here of the suicide who drove his car
into the path of an oncoming train, but apart from that there seems very
little. I think this is probably due to the fact that most have full gates
across both carriageways or are mechanically interlocked with a local signal
box.

Les Brown

"Les Brown"  wrote

>
> What's it like in the UK? We heard here of the suicide who drove his car
> into the path of an oncoming train, but apart from that there seems very
> little. I think this is probably due to the fact that most have full gates
> across both carriageways or are mechanically interlocked with a local
signal
> box.
>

The Health & Safety Executive states that crossings are the largest source
of risk of a train accident. In the last full year for which figures have
been published there were 28 train incidents at crossings, with 18 people
killed. On Network Rail there are 875 controlled crossings (full gates or
barriers, and interlocked withsignals), 818 automatic crossings (mostly
automatic half barriers, but some open crossings with train-activated
warning lights), over 3000 unprotected (mainly farm) crossings, and over
2500 footpath crossings.

The biggest concerns are motorists zig-zagging half barrier crossings,
motorists ignoring the warning lights on open crossings (we've had two train
drivers killed on a miniature railway in Kent from this cause), and misuse
of farm crossings (a very well-respected poster here, who is a train driver,
collided with a vehicle on one of these crossings last year).

Peter

"Les Brown"  wrote in message 
news:d651f1hp31dsrfbss0srvqnrpkiqla5k5m@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 17:11:37 GMT, Chris Tolley  wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 15:28:43 GMT, Les Brown wrote:
>>
>>> I believe that similar graphic road accident advertisements have been 
>>> shown
>>> on UK TV.
>>
>>Certainly the recent campaigns against drink-driving and speeding in 30
>>zones have been graphic enough. But AFAIR it's been decades since there
>>were adverts warning about level crossings, and things were much milder
>>back then. ("The next programme may not be suitable for viewers of a
>>nervous disposition" etc...)
>
> Because of our tradition of "hard-hitting" ads and the number of deaths in
> recent years at level crossings, it was probably felt to be appropriate to
> unleash the campaign on the general public.



I like the way that the pedestrian advert appears to contrast the morons 
playing football on the line with the cyclist who seems to be acting 
responsibly by getting off and walking at the crossing. Not surprisingly the 
footballers get hit and become a puff of smoke (their departing souls?!). 
But then the cyclist gets hit by a second train coming in the opposite 
direction: message - "Even when you think you're taking a lot of care, you 
still need to think about *all* the hazards".



> Accidents such as these:
> http://www.atsb.gov.au/rail/reports/report_detail.cfm?ID=6
> (South Australia)
>
> http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/LTASinfo.nsf/index/railsafety_reports_aloomba
> (Queensland)
>
> http://www.railpage.com.au/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=940
> (Victoria)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerogery_level_crossing_accident
> (New South Wales).
>
> Nearly all level crossings located within city suburbs are either 
> half-boom
> gates or just warning bells alone. Melbourne has nearly 480 within the
> suburban area, one of which is still hand-operated! Australia is 
> rightfully
> concerned about the number of this type of rail accidents.
>
> What's it like in the UK? We heard here of the suicide who drove his car
> into the path of an oncoming train, but apart from that there seems very
> little. I think this is probably due to the fact that most have full gates
> across both carriageways or are mechanically interlocked with a local 
> signal
> box.



There are a variety of types of crossing: some are interlocked with the 
signalling and others are triggered by the oncoming train.

The following is a list of as many types as I can think of - I may have 
forgotten some. If I've forgotten any or got any details wrong, I'm sure 
people will correct me!

- Gated crossing with no lights - operated by road user: only used on VERY 
low traffic farm tracks. Signs warn road users to open the far gate before 
the near one (so you've always got an exit from the crossing) and to close 
the gates as soon as you've crossed. Some crossings have a telephone to the 
signal box ("phone before taking animals or slow-moving vehicles across") 
but I think I've seen some without even this. Gates swing *away* from the 
track and so do not block it when road/foot traffic is passing, which would 
be fatal if left in that position by irresponsible road users!

- Gated pedestrian crossing with miniature red and green lights.

- Gated crossing operated by "crossing keeper" (employed by railway) who is 
informed by telephone when a train is approaching and then comes out from a 
hut beside the crossing to swing the gates across road; normally these gates 
are across the track.

- Ungated pedestrian crossing: in rural areas where a footpath crosses a 
line, there may be a concrete path across the track, with suitable "Stop, 
Look, Listen" signs but no physical barrier. Scary: I had a nasty experience 
on one of these - a path descended into a cutting that was on a slight 
curve. As I got to the track side, I stopped and listened very carefulyl for 
singing rails that precede a train. All was quiet. I crossed quickly and had 
gone no more than a couple of yards up the steps on the other side of the 
cutting when a train whizzed past behind me: despite listening very 
carefully, I'd had no warning of its approach.

- Ungated road crossing with lights: used on minor roads and subject to very 
severe speed limits on the railway: one that I can think of has a 5 mph (8 
km/hr) limit on trains at that point.

- AHB (automatic half-barrier) road crossing: operated by the train when it 
is about 30 seconds away from the crossing - too close for it to stop if a 
car disobeys the barriers, amber/red lights and "Yodalarm" klaxon. Because 
its barriers are only half-width, a car that is already on the crossing when 
the barriers descend has an exit route, but suicidal motorists can zigzag 
round the barriers. AHBs are subject to restrictions on the speed of trains 
and on the volume of traffic. I don't think AHBs are monitored by CCTV: 
probably because if a car did stray onto the line, it woudl be too late for 
the train to stop anyway :-(

- Full-barrier: there are various types of full-barrier crossing, but they 
are usually/always monitored either visually by the signalman if his 
signalbox is next to the crossing or else remotely by CCTV. These crossings 
are interlocked into the signal system: when the train enters his section 
and is still far enough away to stop if necessary, the signalman initiates 
the amber/red light sequence and the closure of the barriers; when he can 
see that the crossing is clear, he gives the approaching train a green 
signal.

Full-barrier crossings are used on busy roads and/or busy high-speed railway 
lines. They are disliked by road users because the barriers go down several 
minutes before the train approaches (to allow time for the worst case where 
a car gets stuck on the crossing and the driver gets a red signal just as 
he's approaching the signal). In contrast, the less safe AHB crossings, 
which assume that car drivers will get clear of the crossing or won't go 
through a red light, only out the barriers down about 30 seconds before the 
train approaches.


All barrier crossings have two sets of lights, one on the left hand side of 
the road and the other on the right hand side of the road, on each side of 
the track, which flash amber for a couple of seconds, then two red lights 
flash alternately for another couple of seconds before the barriers start to 
descend, still with the lights flashing. From the start of the amber lights, 
a very piercing "Yodalarm" klaxon sounds. Warning signs in advance of the 
crossing warn drivers of slow-moving vehicles (less than 5 mph, I think) and 
people leading herds of cows, sheep, etc, to phone the signalman from phones 
about 50 yards before the crossing to seek permission to cross.


Level crossings are normally left open to road/foot traffic at all times 
except when trains are approaching, but I can think of one crossing at 
Appleford in Oxfordshire, near where I live, which just serves a gravel pit 
and landfill site, where the barriers are kept down, and are only raised if 
a driver presses a button beside the crossing to seek permission.

At one time, level crossings had an illuminated sign saying "another train 
coming" if two or more trains were to pass while the barriers wer down. I 
think these have been phased out - the information on the advance warning 
signs says "if the barriers remain down, another train is coming".



Advice if your car gets stranded on a crossing is essentially: if you've got 
a manual transmission car, put it in first gear and try to crank the car off 
the crossing with the starter motor; otherwise (and especially if the 
barriers go down) get out and run like bloody hell - ideally phone the 
signalman from the phone near the crossing. I was always taught to approach 
a crossing at sufficient speed that the momentum of my car would carry the 
car off the crossing if the engine should fail; crawing forward at 1 mph is 
probably not a good idea.



There have been several serious level crossing accidents: the ones that 
stick in my mind are:

- Hixon (1968) where a low-loader with an enormous transformer on it crossed 
at very low speed (to check for overhead and ground clearance) under the 
supervision of a police escort, but neither the police nor the driver 
thought to check with the signalman that it was safe to cross. A classic 
"someone else's responsibility" accident where the driver thought the police 
would take care of all permissions, both for access to roads and for going 
across the crossing.

- Ufton Nervet (2004): AHB crossing - car stranded on crossing (accidentally 
or deliberately) when train travelling at about 100 mph hit it and derailed 
catastrophically on facing points nearby

- Evesham (late 1990s?): farm crossing (possibly of the first type I've 
described above) where minibus of immigrant fruit pickers (who may not have 
been able to read the warning signs) were hit by a train.

- Lockington (1986): minor road crossing line - car emerged from a house 
(former station?) beside the line and turned onto the crossing that was only 
a few yards away - was he too close to be able to see the lights?

- Star Lane, Wokingham (1990s?): car failed to stop at lights/AHB and drove 
into the side of a train that was already on the crossing. It was suggested 
that she may have been dazzled by low-angle early-morning sun. Crossing was 
converted to remotely-monitor full barrier crossing, which caused major 
gridlock in the town until the barrier timings etc had been corrected.


All these resulted in fatalities.

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:10:51 +0100 someone who may be "Martin
Underwood"  wrote this:-


>- Gated pedestrian crossing with miniature red and green lights.


There are also road crossings with the above lights. These have
gates or lifting barriers, both operated by road users.


>- Gated crossing operated by "crossing keeper" (employed by railway) who is 
>informed by telephone when a train is approaching and then comes out from a 
>hut beside the crossing to swing the gates across road; normally these gates 
>are across the track.


The keeper can be advised the a train is approaching by several
means. The keeper sometimes has control of signals, but not always.


>All barrier crossings have two sets of lights, one on the left hand side of 
>the road and the other on the right hand side of the road, on each side of 
>the track,


All is a dangerous word to use about such things. There are
exceptions, but generally they do have such signals.


>which flash amber for a couple of seconds,


The amber light is a steady one and has the same meaning as at other
traffic lights.


>At one time, level crossings had an illuminated sign saying "another train 
>coming" if two or more trains were to pass while the barriers wer down. I 
>think these have been phased out - the information on the advance warning 
>signs says "if the barriers remain down, another train is coming".


Half barrier crossings had these, currently the alarm sounds a
different note after the first train has passed. This is mainly for
pedestrians and cyclists as motorists tend to be cocooned in their
little prison.


>Advice if your car gets stranded on a crossing is essentially: if you've got 
>a manual transmission car, put it in first gear and try to crank the car off 
>the crossing with the starter motor; otherwise (and especially if the 
>barriers go down) get out and run like bloody hell - ideally phone the 
>signalman from the phone near the crossing.


This is bad advice. The first thing to do if this happens is to get
everyone out and use the telephone at the crossing at once. Not all
crossings have telephones, because they are supervised by railway
staff (including the driver at (relatively) low speed crossings.

Having done this one will then be able to decide more rationally
what to do next.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:57:10 GMT someone who may be Les Brown
 wrote this:-


>What's it like in the UK? We heard here of the suicide who drove his car
>into the path of an oncoming train, but apart from that there seems very
>little.


http://www.hse.gov.uk/railways/liveissues/levelcrossings.htm is a
good place to start, along with some of the reports at
http://www.rssb.co.uk/a2z.asp?section=a2z.

If you go to http://www.hse.gov.uk/railways/statistics.htm and pick
a civil service financial year (fortunately they have now been
forced to go back to the rather more sensible calendar year) then
you will find a section on level crossings to download, rather then
the whole report. The exception is 2001/02. If you don't mind a 2MB
download then http://www.hse.gov.uk/railways/railsafety0102.pdf 
has stills from red light cameras showing two idiots ignoring the
flashing red lights, on actual page 82 (described as page 69 in the
typed version). They are not gory. The second one is of the driver
of a school minibus. Bear in mind that the train would probably have
been 10-15 seconds away from the crossing when the first photograph
was taken and 20 seconds away from the crossing when the second
photograph was taken.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"David Hansen"  wrote in message 
news:41c1f1hi125aiv2bd3quhm5igp22vil2ga@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:10:51 +0100 someone who may be "Martin
> Underwood"  wrote this:-
>
> This is bad advice. The first thing to do if this happens is to get
> everyone out and use the telephone at the crossing at once. Not all
> crossings have telephones, because they are supervised by railway
> staff (including the driver at (relatively) low speed crossings.


I was advised by my driving instructor (a former Police Class 1 driver) that 
an attempt should be made to move the car on the starter motor - he'd been 
called to several accidents over the years where cars had been abandoned as 
soon as they stalled and the occupants hadn't got to the phone or the train 
had passed the last signal, but an accident could have been averted if the 
driver had just tried to crank it off on the starter motor.

If you have passengers, I suppose the order of precidence is:

- get them out and send one to the phone
- try to move the car on the starter motor
- if after a few seconds it looks as if it's not going to work or the lights 
start to flash, run like hell


I've often wondered how many valuable seconds are lost with the phones not 
being at the crossing but 50 yards up the road. If it wasn't open to abuse 
from the local yobs, a panic button on the barrier housing would be a good 
idea.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:14:46 +0100, David Hansen
 wrote:


>On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:57:10 GMT someone who may be Les Brown
> wrote this:-
>
>>What's it like in the UK? We heard here of the suicide who drove his car
>>into the path of an oncoming train, but apart from that there seems very
>>little.
>
>http://www.hse.gov.uk/railways/liveissues/levelcrossings.htm is a
>good place to start, along with some of the reports at
>http://www.rssb.co.uk/a2z.asp?section=a2z.
>
>If you go to http://www.hse.gov.uk/railways/statistics.htm and pick
>a civil service financial year (fortunately they have now been
>forced to go back to the rather more sensible calendar year) then
>you will find a section on level crossings to download, rather then
>the whole report. The exception is 2001/02. If you don't mind a 2MB
>download then http://www.hse.gov.uk/railways/railsafety0102.pdf 
>has stills from red light cameras showing two idiots ignoring the
>flashing red lights, on actual page 82 (described as page 69 in the
>typed version). They are not gory. The second one is of the driver
>of a school minibus. Bear in mind that the train would probably have
>been 10-15 seconds away from the crossing when the first photograph
>was taken and 20 seconds away from the crossing when the second
>photograph was taken.


The HSE Rail Safety report was very interesting David, especially when
compared with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau's report for the same
period. (http://www.atsb.gov.au/rail/pdf/crossing_fatalities.pdf)

Whilst there were 11 fatalities at level crossings in the UK in 2001/2002,
in 2001 there were 20 in New South Wales and 13 in Victoria alone - 42 for
the whole of Australia. Things were better in 2002; 14 in NSW and 11 in
Victoria - 41 for the whole of Australia. 

Please bear in mind that train speed are much lower; usually passenger
trains don't exceed 115km/h, some go up to 130km/h. Passenger services here
are far less intense and freight trains are less frequent although they are
much longer (1.5-1.8km length) and heavier than in the UK. 

With passenger speeds slowly rising in Australia to 160km/h plus, level
crossing safety has only marginally raised its hoary head to demand it be
noticed. Unfortunately, it has an all too familiar and therefore
contemptible face to be noticed here.

South Australia's ad is therefore excellent. It should certainly be shown
more widely than just in a state of little more than 1.5 million people.

Les Brown

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 13:51:10 +0100 someone who may be "Martin
Underwood" <a@b> wrote this:-


>I was advised by my driving instructor (a former Police Class 1 driver)


Who I think gave you bad advice.

Rule 272 of the Highway Code strikes me as being very sensible.

====================================================================

272: If your vehicle breaks down, or if you have an accident on a
crossing you should 

* get everyone out of the vehicle and clear of the crossing
immediately 

*use a railway telephone if available to tell the signal operator.
Follow the instructions you are given 

*move the vehicle clear of the crossing if there is time before a
train arrives. If the alarm sounds, or the amber light comes on,
leave the vehicle and get clear of the crossing immediately. 

====================================================================


>that 
>an attempt should be made to move the car on the starter motor - he'd been 
>called to several accidents over the years where cars had been abandoned as 
>soon as they stalled and the occupants hadn't got to the phone


Hadn't got to the phone why, in what time period?


>or the train 
>had passed the last signal, but an accident could have been averted if the 
>driver had just tried to crank it off on the starter motor.


Against which one must balance those who "just tried to crank it off
on the starter motor" and as a result did not contact the signalman
until after the last controlled signal could be replaced to danger.


>I've often wondered how many valuable seconds are lost with the phones not 
>being at the crossing but 50 yards up the road.


As far as I am aware if there are any public railway telephones at a
level crossing there will always be one on either side of the line,
as well as any away from the crossing. The fourth photograph on
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3991771.stm shows
such a phone at the crossing. They are at the "open" side and there
is a sign with an arrow pointing to the phone on the "barrier" side,
as http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4354265.stm shows (though the
arrow is hidden from view by a stone wall due to the angle the
photograph is taken from).



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"Ken Ward"  wrote in message
news:7PJHe.26773$Hd4.25093@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

>
> "tony sayer"  wrote in message
> news:JLsBMsDkN17CFwau@bancom.co.uk...
> > In article , Carl Bowman <carlbowmanwith
> > outspam@gmx.co.uk> writes
> >>"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> >>news:dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> >>> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-
> >>>
> >>> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp
> >>
> >>Yikes! Gets the message across pretty forcefully though.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > This one was for real;(....
> >
> > http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/lirr/pubs/video/Crossing.htm
>
>
> They are ALL very impressive, but if you showed them over here people
would
> be claiming Compensation for "Post advert stress" or something else to
keep
> the Legal people in Ferrari's.
>
> KW
>
>

In Ferrari's what?

> I was advised by my driving instructor (a former Police Class 1 driver)
> that an attempt should be made to move the car on the starter motor - he'd
> been called to several accidents over the years where cars had been
> abandoned as soon as they stalled and the occupants hadn't got to the
> phone or the train had passed the last signal, but an accident could have
> been averted if the driver had just tried to crank it off on the starter
> motor.


Doesn't work with an automatic and, in North America at least, you can't
crank the engine without depressing the clutch.  Lot of good the starter
motor will do you.

Best advice, at least in North America?  Stall on a level crossing, get the
hell away from the vehicle as fast as you can, find a phone, phone police.


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

"Roger T."  wrote

>
> Best advice, at least in North America?  Stall on a level crossing, get
the
> hell away from the vehicle as fast as you can, find a phone, phone police.
>

In uk use the railway phone at the crossing to call the signaller. 999 on
your mobile won't do anything to stop the train.

Peter

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:58:04 -0700, "Roger T."
 wrote:


>Doesn't work with an automatic and, in North America at least, you can't
>crank the engine without depressing the clutch.  Lot of good the starter
>motor will do you.


On every vehicle I have ever driven with a manual transmission, it has
been possible to crank without depressing the clutch.  Gives you a bit
of a shock if you do it unwittingly while in gear, though it doesn't
tend to cause harm so long as the handbrake is on.  (If it isn't, of
course, you might be in need of an insurance claim form...)

Must be a North American thing.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Neil Williams" <


>>Doesn't work with an automatic and, in North America at least, you can't
>>crank the engine without depressing the clutch.  Lot of good the starter
>>motor will do you.
>
> On every vehicle I have ever driven with a manual transmission, it has
> been possible to crank without depressing the clutch.  Gives you a bit
> of a shock if you do it unwittingly while in gear, though it doesn't
> tend to cause harm so long as the handbrake is on.  (If it isn't, of
> course, you might be in need of an insurance claim form...)
>
> Must be a North American thing.


Must be.  Though interlocking the starter with the clutch pedal, via a
micro-switch, does make sense to me.


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:19:08 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Masson"
 wrote:


>In uk use the railway phone at the crossing to call the signaller.


Some crossings don't have a railway phone, for example all the
newly-installed ones on the Bedford-Bletchley line, which have a
Birmingham telephone number shown.  Whether that number is a railway
telephone hub that connects directly to Ridgemont control centre I
don't know.

I must admit that this was to my incredible surprise, as the cost of
adding a telephone to these CCTV-covered brand-new crossings must have
been minimal.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 10:25:26 -0700, "Roger T."
 wrote:


>Must be.  Though interlocking the starter with the clutch pedal, via a
>micro-switch, does make sense to me.


I can see that point...

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Martin Underwood wrote:


> I was advised by my driving instructor (a former Police Class 1 
> driver) that an attempt should be made to move the car on the starter 
> motor - he'd been called to several accidents over the years where 
> cars had been abandoned as soon as they stalled and the occupants 
> hadn't got to the phone or the train had passed the last signal, but 
> an accident could have been averted if the driver had just tried to 
> crank it off on the starter motor.


Am I the only one who would try to _push_ the car clear of the tracks?
(Assuming the train's arrival wasn't imminent)

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:47:41 GMT someone who may be
wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote this:-


>>In uk use the railway phone at the crossing to call the signaller.
>
>Some crossings don't have a railway phone,


On public roads you will find that AHB crossings have railway
telephones, as does the one remaining AOCR.

Locally monitored crossings usually do not, instead they have
plates giving a railway telephone number.

Full barrier crossings generally do not have telephones, but do
generally have plates giving a railway telephone number. The Western
Region used to provide railway telephones at full barrier crossings,
but this was not done in some other places.

Bear in mind that at locally monitored and full barrier crossings
railway telephones are not necessary as the train should be stopped
if there is a problem with the crossing and so telephones are only
for reporting faults, which will be detected when the first train
approaches anyway.

For the more minor crossings one can be even less specific about
railway telephone provision, other than to say that it is assessed
on an individual basis.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 20:42:28 +0100 someone who may be Stevie D
 wrote this:-


>Am I the only one who would try to _push_ the car clear of the tracks?
>(Assuming the train's arrival wasn't imminent)


After using the railway telephone to check the situation, this is a
sensible thing to do. Cars can generally be pushed, unless the
profile makes this very difficult.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:23:36 +0100, David Hansen
 wrote:


>On public roads you will find that AHB crossings have railway
>telephones, as does the one remaining AOCR.


Sorry for my ignorance, but what's an AOCR, and where is the one
remaining one located?


>Locally monitored crossings usually do not, instead they have
>plates giving a railway telephone number.


ISTR that Porthmadog (full width barriers operated by the traincrew)
has neither, which was a bit of a pain when it got stuck once.  Having
crossed the line (there was no other train so no danger) I went into a
nearby tourist office and requested them to call the railway, but that
was the best I could manage at the time.  (This was before I had a
mobile).

The train wasn't due back from Pwllheli for the best part of an hour,
as I recall, and that assumes the traincrew noticed then.  By the time
I had reached the FfR station on foot, which is where I was heading,
being half way round the North and Mid Wales Loop, the queue had also
reached that point.

Of course, the lack of a telephone is probably understandable on the
Cambrian Coast, which probably has no fixed communication
infrastructure with being RETB.  It just surprises me that the
Bedford-Bletchley line wasn't so fitted with it being such a cheap
add-on - whether strictly necessary or not.


>Bear in mind that at locally monitored and full barrier crossings
>railway telephones are not necessary as the train should be stopped
>if there is a problem with the crossing and so telephones are only
>for reporting faults, which will be detected when the first train
>approaches anyway.


True.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:28:22 GMT someone who may be
wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote this:-


>Sorry for my ignorance, but what's an AOCR, and where is the one
>remaining one located?


http://www.hse.gov.uk/railways/annualreport0405/10levelcross.pdf

"AOCR automatic open crossing, remotely monitored."

This also says that the one remaining AOCR is in Scotland. I did
once discover where it is, but have forgotten.

AOCRs were criticised and removed after Lockington. This may have
been an over-reaction, the arguments are finely balanced.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 23:42:28 +0100, David Hansen
 wrote:


>"AOCR automatic open crossing, remotely monitored."


Thanks.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Geoffrey Mortimer"  wrote


> In Ferrari's what?


In Ferrari's cars I would suggest!  ;-)

John.

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 17:53:26 +0200, Geoffrey Mortimer wrote:

> "Ken Ward"  wrote in message

>> They are ALL very impressive, but if you showed them over here people
>> would be claiming Compensation for "Post advert stress" or something
>> else to keep the Legal people in Ferrari's. 
>> 
> In Ferrari's what?


Thrall.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683783.html
(150 149 at Manchester Piccadilly, 3 Nov 2000)

Will they EVER learn?  I think the answer must be NO!

Today Thursday 4/8/2005.

Quote..........

" 10:46 Crossing misuse at Red Cow, blue ford Ka ignored lights and barriers 
and drive onto crossing, lower sequence cancelled to release car, however 
when lowered again upsside barrier hit car roof as she exited".

For a veiw of the crossing go to.... (unless ther is another Red Cow LC)

http://www.alextrack.co.uk/my_business/careers/railtrack_red_cow.shtml

KW

"Ken Ward"  wrote in message
news:xJlIe.12569$SO4.5105@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...

> Will they EVER learn?  I think the answer must be NO!
>
> Today Thursday 4/8/2005.
>
> Quote..........
>
> " 10:46 Crossing misuse at Red Cow, blue ford Ka ignored lights and
barriers
> and drive onto crossing, lower sequence cancelled to release car, however
> when lowered again upsside barrier hit car roof as she exited".
>
> For a veiw of the crossing go to.... (unless ther is another Red Cow LC)
>
> http://www.alextrack.co.uk/my_business/careers/railtrack_red_cow.shtml
>
> KW
>

She'd probably had one or three too many in the Red Cow ...

"Ken Ward"  wrote in message
news:7PJHe.26773$Hd4.25093@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...

>
> "tony sayer"  wrote in message
> news:JLsBMsDkN17CFwau@bancom.co.uk...
> > In article , Carl Bowman <carlbowmanwith
> > outspam@gmx.co.uk> writes
> >>"John Turner" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> >>news:dcndke$8fp$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> >>> Surprised our lot have not considered something like these:-
> >>>
> >>> http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/safety/rail/advertising_campaign.asp
> >>
> >>Yikes! Gets the message across pretty forcefully though.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > This one was for real;(....
> >
> > http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/lirr/pubs/video/Crossing.htm
>
>
> They are ALL very impressive, but if you showed them over here people
would
> be claiming Compensation for "Post advert stress" or something else to
keep
> the Legal people in Ferrari's.
>
> KW
>

Sorry for the pedantry :(

I wonder how many fule kno that "Ferrari" is (pretty much) Italian for
"Smith"[1]

I say! That's a nice Smith you've got there! Bet she goes like the blazes!

[1] Fabbri ferrai = Iron fabricators (19th century usage) morphing to
Ferrari. One of the commonest names in the 'phone book ...

In article <xJlIe.12569$SO4.5105@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>, Ken Ward 
 writes

>" 10:46 Crossing misuse at Red Cow, blue ford Ka ignored lights and barriers
>and drive onto crossing, lower sequence cancelled to release car, however
>when lowered again upsside barrier hit car roof as she exited".


And dented it? What a pity.

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather                       | Home: 
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work)             | Web:  <http://www.davros.org>
Fax: +44 870 051 9937                    | Work: 
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article <xJlIe.12569$SO4.5105@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>,
   Ken Ward  wrote:

> Will they EVER learn?  I think the answer must be NO!


This is true. The general attitude, and it applies to lots of other
activities, is that the others failed because they weren't clever enough -
but I'm different.

-- 
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:38:37 +0000, Les Brown wrote:

 

> With passenger speeds slowly rising in Australia to 160km/h plus, level
> crossing safety has only marginally raised its hoary head to demand it be
> noticed. Unfortunately, it has an all too familiar and therefore
> contemptible face to be noticed here.


 In NSW all the 160km/hr capable trains have been slowed to 130 or lower
due to level crossing incidents. The timetables have been changed to make
this permanent.
 There doesn't look like there will be any prospect of the speeds being
restored either. It is more likely that the remaining rual passenger
services will be canceled instead and handed over to bus operators.

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 10:25:26 -0700, Roger T. wrote:


> 
> "Neil Williams" <
> 
>>>Doesn't work with an automatic and, in North America at least, you can't
>>>crank the engine without depressing the clutch.  Lot of good the starter
>>>motor will do you.

>> On every vehicle I have ever driven with a manual transmission, it has
>> been possible to crank without depressing the clutch.  )
>>
>> Must be a North American thing.


 It's spreading.

 Some cars sold in Australia have this interlock. I'm sure the VW I hired
in France a couple of years back had a clutch interlock. This was
especially disturbing as I don't drive much, are a little uncertain
with a manual and the gear stick was on the wrong side! (Thus I stalled
rather too often).

 It's to stop stupid people from running over their children when they try
to start their car while it's still in gear in their driveways.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:52:26 +0100, David H Wild wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

[...]

> This is true. The general attitude, and it applies to lots of other
> activities, is that the others failed because they weren't clever enough -
> but I'm different.


"Oh, it's alright, nothing's going to happen"

General response to anything from "Don't block that emergency exit" to
"Don't cross the line when a train is coming".

-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com