Press release from MAN[B&W] - the company that own the Paxman and
Ruston (former English Electric) and Mirrlees diesel engines names, not
much traction related, as RK280 is essentially the marine engine, until
you get the very end . . .


<<<<

English engine production focuses on the RK280

Augsburg / Stockport 1st August, 2005. Engine manufacturer MAN B&W Ltd,
located in Stockport (England), will in future be focusing on extended
service business and on the production of the new RK280 engine series.
The MAN B&W Diesel Group's English site introduced measures to
improve competitiveness at the beginning of April, which included
optimising of the production facilities and the product line. As the
new Head of Development, Dr. Franz Koch will be moving from the
Augsburg headquarters to Stockport. He will be supported by a team
based in Augsburg. Apart from development, assembly and testing, the
focus of the activities at the Stockport plant will be purchasing and
logistics for the series. Deliveries of the first RK280 models to the
market have already commenced.

Parts production, together with the manufacturing of spare parts for
the other English series such as the RK215, VP185, RK270 and the older
engine models from Mirrlees-Blackstone, Paxman and Ruston, will be
managed by the MAN B&W Diesel Group's production network in Germany,
France and UK. This ensures that MAN B&W Diesel Ltd will be able to
continue offering its customers a full spectrum of services and spare
parts. Wayne Jones has been brought on board as the new head of the
service division. He previously worked at Sulzer Pumps in Leeds,
England, as Director of Customer Support Services. In his role as
Deputy Managing Director, he will extend the service and spare parts
business and align the entire entity with customer needs.

The machine tools at the Stockport plant will be taken over by the
Korean STX Group, who thereby deepens a licensing partnership with the
MAN B&W Diesel Group of many years' standing. In the STX plants in
Korea and China the machine tools will produce components for ship
engines, that STX is manufacturing under MAN B&W Diesel license. The
transfer will commence in January 2006.

Discussions are currently underway with potential partner firms
regarding the continuation of the high-speed diesel engine series
VP185, RK215 and RK270.


>>>>


Reads as if the Paxman VP185 rights may be up for grabs - along with
the RK270 (only ever used in traction in 37905/37906) and RK215 (used
in Alstom Belfort built diesel locos for world market u.e. Iran, Syria,
and others)

Link to actual press release here :

http://www.manbw.com/article_005078.html


Mr.Porter ? Mr.Ford ? Comments ?

--
Nick

"D7666"  wrote in message 
news:1122954539.876658.198820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

> Press release from MAN[B&W] - the company that own the Paxman and
> Ruston (former English Electric) and Mirrlees diesel engines names, not
> much traction related, as RK280 is essentially the marine engine, until
> you get the very end . . .
>
>
> <<<<
>
> English engine production focuses on the RK280
>
> Augsburg / Stockport 1st August, 2005. Engine manufacturer MAN B&W Ltd,
> located in Stockport (England), will in future be focusing on extended
> service business and on the production of the new RK280 engine series.
> The MAN B&W Diesel Group's English site introduced measures to
> improve competitiveness at the beginning of April, which included
> optimising of the production facilities and the product line. As the
> new Head of Development, Dr. Franz Koch will be moving from the
> Augsburg headquarters to Stockport. He will be supported by a team
> based in Augsburg. Apart from development, assembly and testing, the
> focus of the activities at the Stockport plant will be purchasing and
> logistics for the series. Deliveries of the first RK280 models to the
> market have already commenced.
>
> Parts production, together with the manufacturing of spare parts for
> the other English series such as the RK215, VP185, RK270 and the older
> engine models from Mirrlees-Blackstone, Paxman and Ruston, will be
> managed by the MAN B&W Diesel Group's production network in Germany,
> France and UK. This ensures that MAN B&W Diesel Ltd will be able to
> continue offering its customers a full spectrum of services and spare
> parts. Wayne Jones has been brought on board as the new head of the
> service division. He previously worked at Sulzer Pumps in Leeds,
> England, as Director of Customer Support Services. In his role as
> Deputy Managing Director, he will extend the service and spare parts
> business and align the entire entity with customer needs.
>
> The machine tools at the Stockport plant will be taken over by the
> Korean STX Group, who thereby deepens a licensing partnership with the
> MAN B&W Diesel Group of many years' standing. In the STX plants in
> Korea and China the machine tools will produce components for ship
> engines, that STX is manufacturing under MAN B&W Diesel license. The
> transfer will commence in January 2006.
>
> Discussions are currently underway with potential partner firms
> regarding the continuation of the high-speed diesel engine series
> VP185, RK215 and RK270.
>
>>>>>
>
> Reads as if the Paxman VP185 rights may be up for grabs - along with
> the RK270 (only ever used in traction in 37905/37906) and RK215 (used
> in Alstom Belfort built diesel locos for world market u.e. Iran, Syria,
> and others)
>
> Link to actual press release here :
>
> http://www.manbw.com/article_005078.html
>
>
> Mr.Porter ? Mr.Ford ? Comments ?
>
> --
> Nick
>


Well, if that ends the production of the VP185 then that's a good thing 
IMHO. It is still an absolute dog of an engine and has been from day one. 
FGW's 43170/179 have both recently been fitted with the latest variant and 
they're still rubbish. No power, excessive clag (worse than a Valenta by a 
long, long way) and to top it all they sound like a combine harvester 
cutting nails.

John Tattersall wrote:

> "D7666"  wrote in message 
> news:1122954539.876658.198820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> 
>>Press release from MAN[B&W] - the company that own the Paxman and
>>Ruston (former English Electric) and Mirrlees diesel engines names, not
>>much traction related, as RK280 is essentially the marine engine, until
>>you get the very end . . .
>>
>>
>><<<<
>>
>>English engine production focuses on the RK280
>>
>>Augsburg / Stockport 1st August, 2005. Engine manufacturer MAN B&W Ltd,
>>located in Stockport (England), will in future be focusing on extended
>>service business and on the production of the new RK280 engine series.
>>The MAN B&W Diesel Group's English site introduced measures to
>>improve competitiveness at the beginning of April, which included
>>optimising of the production facilities and the product line. As the
>>new Head of Development, Dr. Franz Koch will be moving from the
>>Augsburg headquarters to Stockport. He will be supported by a team
>>based in Augsburg. Apart from development, assembly and testing, the
>>focus of the activities at the Stockport plant will be purchasing and
>>logistics for the series. Deliveries of the first RK280 models to the
>>market have already commenced.
>>
>>Parts production, together with the manufacturing of spare parts for
>>the other English series such as the RK215, VP185, RK270 and the older
>>engine models from Mirrlees-Blackstone, Paxman and Ruston, will be
>>managed by the MAN B&W Diesel Group's production network in Germany,
>>France and UK. This ensures that MAN B&W Diesel Ltd will be able to
>>continue offering its customers a full spectrum of services and spare
>>parts. Wayne Jones has been brought on board as the new head of the
>>service division. He previously worked at Sulzer Pumps in Leeds,
>>England, as Director of Customer Support Services. In his role as
>>Deputy Managing Director, he will extend the service and spare parts
>>business and align the entire entity with customer needs.
>>
>>The machine tools at the Stockport plant will be taken over by the
>>Korean STX Group, who thereby deepens a licensing partnership with the
>>MAN B&W Diesel Group of many years' standing. In the STX plants in
>>Korea and China the machine tools will produce components for ship
>>engines, that STX is manufacturing under MAN B&W Diesel license. The
>>transfer will commence in January 2006.
>>
>>Discussions are currently underway with potential partner firms
>>regarding the continuation of the high-speed diesel engine series
>>VP185, RK215 and RK270.
>>
>>
>>Reads as if the Paxman VP185 rights may be up for grabs - along with
>>the RK270 (only ever used in traction in 37905/37906) and RK215 (used
>>in Alstom Belfort built diesel locos for world market u.e. Iran, Syria,
>>and others)
>>
>>Link to actual press release here :
>>
>>http://www.manbw.com/article_005078.html
>>
>>
>>Mr.Porter ? Mr.Ford ? Comments ?
>>
>>--
>>Nick
>>
> 
> 
> Well, if that ends the production of the VP185 then that's a good thing 
> IMHO. It is still an absolute dog of an engine and has been from day one. 
> FGW's 43170/179 have both recently been fitted with the latest variant and 
> they're still rubbish. No power, excessive clag (worse than a Valenta by a 
> long, long way) and to top it all they sound like a combine harvester 
> cutting nails.
> 
> 



Bombardier ?

John Tattersall wrote:


>>Press release from MAN[B&W] - the company that own the Paxman and
>>Ruston (former English Electric) and Mirrlees diesel engines names, not
>>much traction related, as RK280 is essentially the marine engine, until
>>you get the very end . . .


The very end of the days when the Mirrlees Hazel Grove factory actually 
manufactures anything.

The very end of many people's jobs.

Very sad.

Charlie

Charlie Hulme wrote:


> The very end of the days when the Mirrlees Hazel Grove factory
> actually manufactures anything.

> The very end of many people's jobs.

-----------------------------------

Yes indeed Charlie...

And probably perpetrated by the same moguls who finally
closed Vulcan Foundry (1831 - 2003) two years ago, to
transfer all Ruston Diesel production to the Mirrlees plant.

:-(

Regards,

DigitisED  (Eddie Bellass)

Mythical Merseyside, in the Occupied Territories
of Old Lancashire, United Kingdom.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free and checked
by a leading anti-virus system - updated continuously.

"Eddie Bellass"  wrote in message 
news:CV5Ie.2596$eI5.1343@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Charlie Hulme wrote:
>
>> The very end of the days when the Mirrlees Hazel Grove factory
>> actually manufactures anything.
>
>> The very end of many people's jobs.
> -----------------------------------
>
> Yes indeed Charlie...
>
> And probably perpetrated by the same moguls who finally
> closed Vulcan Foundry (1831 - 2003) two years ago, to
> transfer all Ruston Diesel production to the Mirrlees plant.
>
> :-(


To that list can also be added the Paxman works in Colchester, production 
also moving up to Hazel Grove.

John Tattersall wrote:

> "Eddie Bellass"  wrote in message 
> news:CV5Ie.2596$eI5.1343@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>>Charlie Hulme wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The very end of the days when the Mirrlees Hazel Grove factory
>>>actually manufactures anything.
>>
>>>The very end of many people's jobs.
>>
>>-----------------------------------
>>
>>Yes indeed Charlie...
>>
>>And probably perpetrated by the same moguls who finally
>>closed Vulcan Foundry (1831 - 2003) two years ago, to
>>transfer all Ruston Diesel production to the Mirrlees plant.
>>
>>:-(
> 
> 
> To that list can also be added the Paxman works in Colchester, production 
> also moving up to Hazel Grove.
> 
> 

No the Paxman transfer happened early 2003, and is thought that the
VP185 going to Peilstick in France.
RK215 going to Desa in Iran
RK270 going to Dalian in China
RK280 assembley only at Stockport
Talks that Stockport site too large to support smaller business
unit and will re-locate in the near future.  Where ? my money is
on Augsburg Germany.

Eddie Bellass wrote:

> Charlie Hulme wrote:
> 
> 
>>The very end of the days when the Mirrlees Hazel Grove factory
>>actually manufactures anything.
> 
> 
>>The very end of many people's jobs.
> 
> -----------------------------------
> 
> Yes indeed Charlie...
> 
> And probably perpetrated by the same moguls who finally
> closed Vulcan Foundry (1831 - 2003) two years ago, to
> transfer all Ruston Diesel production to the Mirrlees plant.
> 


Not probably, DEFINITELY.
MAN B&W. The same company that bought ERF and closed it

"DJ_Crazy_Frog"  wrote in message 
news:X_8Ie.82127$G8.56770@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> John Tattersall wrote:
>> "Eddie Bellass"  wrote in message 
>> news:CV5Ie.2596$eI5.1343@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>>>Charlie Hulme wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The very end of the days when the Mirrlees Hazel Grove factory
>>>>actually manufactures anything.
>>>
>>>>The very end of many people's jobs.
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>
>>>Yes indeed Charlie...
>>>
>>>And probably perpetrated by the same moguls who finally
>>>closed Vulcan Foundry (1831 - 2003) two years ago, to
>>>transfer all Ruston Diesel production to the Mirrlees plant.
>>>
>>>:-(
>>
>>
>> To that list can also be added the Paxman works in Colchester, production 
>> also moving up to Hazel Grove.
>>
>>
> No the Paxman transfer happened early 2003, and is thought that the


That was what I meant, following up on the Ruston post previously. What I 
wrote was probably just badly worded! :-)

DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:


> RK215 going to Desa in Iran
> RK270 going to Dalian in China



Is this a serious rumour or is it simply based on the fact that Desa
were involved with kit building the Alstom Belfort loco contract and
Dalian are into a Ruston contract for Malaysia and people are using the
only names that happen to be on hand with current running jobs ?

--
Nick

D7666 wrote:

> Press release from MAN[B&W] - the company that own the Paxman and
> Ruston (former English Electric) and Mirrlees diesel engines names, not
> much traction related, as RK280 is essentially the marine engine, until
> you get the very end . . .
>
>
> <<<<
>
> >
> Reads as if the Paxman VP185 rights may be up for grabs - along with
> the RK270 (only ever used in traction in 37905/37906) and RK215 (used
> in Alstom Belfort built diesel locos for world market u.e. Iran, Syria,
> and others)
>
> Link to actual press release here :
>
> http://www.manbw.com/article_005078.html
>
>
> Mr.Porter ? Mr.Ford ? Comments ?
>
> --
> Nick



I wonder if GNER are still going to use the VP185? The latest Rail
carries an article concerning the MTU trial. The figures are
confidential as they say,however one error is that VP185 mk2 uses more
fuel than the Valenta, it doesn't, it uses less. This is borne out by
the daily figures which I collate. Fuel costs and oil consumption are
important costs to take into account these days and one must remember
the greater TBO. It is entirely possible that installing a new engine
is actually cheaper over 5-6 years than overhauling old ones. The
trials of both types continue, the figures for both types are very
encouraging, no actually they are extremely encouraging. So encouraging
it's almost boring as they are putting in very high mileages with very
low fuel and oil consumption. I'm not going to reveal specifics but
lots of smiles round here!

jon.porter1@lycosmax.co.uk wrote:



> trials of both types continue, the figures for both types are very
> encouraging, no actually they are extremely encouraging. So encouraging
> it's almost boring as they are putting in very high mileages with very
> low fuel and oil consumption. I'm not going to reveal specifics but
> lots of smiles round here!



I repeat my previous observation that the professionals have always
liked the VP185 whereas the seemingly (well to me anyway) subjective
attacks refering to VP185s as 'dogs' and 'worse clag' and 'put legs out
of bed' and supposed low reliability without supporting figues and what
not coem from the enthusiast side posters.


Of course, anything 'new' is 'plastic' and has to be slagged off at all
costs, no matter what.


Is there every likely to be a third engine - the big Cummins - tried in
an HST ? AFAIK it has yet to be put in a European traction environment
despite its Innotrans 2004 launch.


--
Nick

"D7666"  wrote in message
news:1123117807.566106.126520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
> jon.porter1@lycosmax.co.uk wrote:
>
>
>> trials of both types continue, the figures for both types are very
>> encouraging, no actually they are extremely encouraging. So encouraging
>> it's almost boring as they are putting in very high mileages with very
>> low fuel and oil consumption. I'm not going to reveal specifics but
>> lots of smiles round here!
>
>
> I repeat my previous observation that the professionals have always
> liked the VP185 whereas the seemingly (well to me anyway) subjective
> attacks refering to VP185s as 'dogs' and 'worse clag' and 'put legs out
> of bed' and supposed low reliability without supporting figues and what
> not coem from the enthusiast side posters.


So that'll be a typically patronising response from someone looking down his
nose at enthusiasts.

I'm assuming that's a response to my earlier post. Incidentally ISTR that
FGW themselves were not keen on the VP185 (at least in the Mk1 version). My
statement about the Mk 2 VP185 in 43179 was based on experience: I had the
same set with the same "other" power car, once with 43179 and once with a
Valenta-engined car, and the performance was much worse in terms of
acceleration when 43179 was on the set.

The professionals, of course, also have preferences and prejudices, just
like everyone else. I'd also suggest that a couple of months experience with
new engines is hardly a realistic timeframe to assess their success or
otherwise. The fact remains that after 10 years of VP185 only 25 power cars
have received the new engines and, with all the much heralded financial
savings to be had from re-engining, that suggests there are concerns about
going down this route. Furthermore, if the VP185 is such a success, why
trial the MTU?


> Of course, anything 'new' is 'plastic' and has to be slagged off at all
> costs, no matter what.


Well, FWIW, I quite like some 'new' kit: such as the QSK19, and I'd take a
Desiro over a slam-door unit any day. Not all enthusiasts are like Henry
y'know :-)


> Is there every likely to be a third engine - the big Cummins - tried in
> an HST ? AFAIK it has yet to be put in a European traction environment
> despite its Innotrans 2004 launch.


It was mooted at one stage - the rumour was Angel to trial the MTU,
Porterbrook the Cummins - but AIUI there is no intention to trial the
Cummins at present. To be pedantic the MTU is actually the fourth engine
type to be used in an HST - there was also the Mirrlees MB190.

jon.porter1@lycosmax.co.uk wrote:


> 
> D7666 wrote:
>> Press release from MAN[B&W] - the company that own the Paxman and
>> Ruston (former English Electric) and Mirrlees diesel engines names, not
>> much traction related, as RK280 is essentially the marine engine, until
>> you get the very end . . .
>>
>>
>> <<<<
>>
>> >
>> Reads as if the Paxman VP185 rights may be up for grabs - along with
>> the RK270 (only ever used in traction in 37905/37906) and RK215 (used
>> in Alstom Belfort built diesel locos for world market u.e. Iran, Syria,
>> and others)
>>
>> Link to actual press release here :
>>
>> http://www.manbw.com/article_005078.html
>>
>>
>> Mr.Porter ? Mr.Ford ? Comments ?
>>
>> --
>> Nick
> 
> 
> I wonder if GNER are still going to use the VP185? The latest Rail
> carries an article concerning the MTU trial. The figures are
> confidential as they say,however one error is that VP185 mk2 uses more
> fuel than the Valenta, it doesn't, it uses less. This is borne out by
> the daily figures which I collate. Fuel costs and oil consumption are
> important costs to take into account these days and one must remember
> the greater TBO. It is entirely possible that installing a new engine
> is actually cheaper over 5-6 years than overhauling old ones. The
> trials of both types continue, the figures for both types are very
> encouraging, no actually they are extremely encouraging. So encouraging
> it's almost boring as they are putting in very high mileages with very
> low fuel and oil consumption. I'm not going to reveal specifics but
> lots of smiles round here!


Jon,
Out of interest how much bigger than a valenta is the MTU.
My employers run a fleet of valentas, currently we dont have the funding to
replace the engines, but if they fit and another user has successfully
transferred you never know...

Paul

D7666 wrote:

> DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:
> 
> 
>>RK215 going to Desa in Iran
>>RK270 going to Dalian in China
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a serious rumour or is it simply based on the fact that Desa
> were involved with kit building the Alstom Belfort loco contract and
> Dalian are into a Ruston contract for Malaysia and people are using the
> only names that happen to be on hand with current running jobs ?
> 
> --
> Nick
> 

Draw your own conclusions.

ALL machining of engine parts of current production and spares
for the Mirrlees, Ruston and Paxman range of engines currently
manufactured in Stockport will cease by July 2006.

The machine tools have been bought by STX and will start to move
to STX workshops Korea and China in Jan 2006.

DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:


> The machine tools have been bought by STX and will start to move
> to STX workshops Korea and China in Jan 2006.


Ahhh I had not understood that STX was linked with China, had only read
it was linked with Korea.

I assume thit is South Korea and not North Korea ? You never know these
days :o)

--
Nick

DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:


> MAN B&W. The same company that bought ERF and closed it


< pedant >

Was it not MAN Nutzfahrzug that bought ERF and not MAN B&W.

If you'd just said MAN ... I'd not have to be a pedant.

:o)

< /pedant >

--
Nick

D7666 wrote:

> DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:
> 
> 
>>MAN B&W. The same company that bought ERF and closed it
> 
> 
> < pedant >
> 
> Was it not MAN Nutzfahrzug that bought ERF and not MAN B&W.
> 
> If you'd just said MAN ... I'd not have to be a pedant.
> 
> :o)
> 
> < /pedant >
> 
> --
> Nick
> 


Ok, I stand corrected, but  MAN is MAN no matter what name
is tagged on the end.  The CEO is the CEO over EVERY company
within the MAN group.

DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:


> Ok, I stand corrected, but  MAN is MAN no matter what name
> is tagged on the end.  The CEO is the CEO over EVERY company
> within the MAN group.


I was being totally pedantic.

--
Nick

D7666 wrote:

> DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ok, I stand corrected, but  MAN is MAN no matter what name
>>is tagged on the end.  The CEO is the CEO over EVERY company
>>within the MAN group.
> 
> 
> I was being totally pedantic.
> 
> --
> Nick
> 


I know you where, I can imagine you sitting there
chickling as you type.

"DJ_Crazy_Frog"  wrote in message 
news:7skJe.83956$G8.81136@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> D7666 wrote:
>> DJ_Crazy_Frog wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ok, I stand corrected, but  MAN is MAN no matter what name
>>>is tagged on the end.  The CEO is the CEO over EVERY company
>>>within the MAN group.
>>
>>
>> I was being totally pedantic.
>>
>> --
>> Nick
>>
>
> I know you where, I can imagine you sitting there
> chickling as you type.


Crazy Frogs ... don't know their "I's" from their "U's", unless it's a 
scouse "U's" then it would be a.............

Time for my tablets.. Nurse, bring the Metformin and a silencer...

KW

Paul Hutchinson wrote:

> jon.porter1@lycosmax.co.uk wrote:
>
> >
> > D7666 wrote:
> >> Press release from MAN[B&W] - the company that own the Paxman and
> >> Ruston (former English Electric) and Mirrlees diesel engines names, not
> >> much traction related, as RK280 is essentially the marine engine, until
> >> you get the very end . . .
> >>
> >>
> >> <<<<
> >>
> >> >
> >> Reads as if the Paxman VP185 rights may be up for grabs - along with
> >> the RK270 (only ever used in traction in 37905/37906) and RK215 (used
> >> in Alstom Belfort built diesel locos for world market u.e. Iran, Syria,
> >> and others)
> >>
> >> Link to actual press release here :
> >>
> >> http://www.manbw.com/article_005078.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Mr.Porter ? Mr.Ford ? Comments ?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Nick
> >
> >
> > Jon,
> Out of interest how much bigger than a valenta is the MTU.
> My employers run a fleet of valentas, currently we dont have the funding to
> replace the engines, but if they fit and another user has successfully
> transferred you never know...
>
> Paul


Paul, I answered this last night but it doesn't appear on my screen now
so apologies if anyone is seeing a repeat. The engine itself is longer
and had to be mounted higher to keep the cooler group shafts in line.
However the technical modification was not difficult. There is more
restricted room at each end but in the case of the cooler group it is
hoped this will not be visited so frequently as now due to this engines
much higher thermal efficiency putting far less strain on the groups.
I notice D7666 is claiming professionals prefer the VP185, whilst the
VP185 mk 2 has a better fuel efficiency than the Valenta, it is a full
generation behind the MTU in this and other respects.  Lifetime Cost
will be a factor along with emissions, consumption and reliability. We
already know answers to nearly all the questions and it will another 4
months before any meaningful conclusion can be drawn on the last one.
Prejudices among engineers tend to be the result of experience and
scientific analysis. Prejudices among accounancy professionals tend to
be influenced by the bottom line, and short term costs have a tendency
to win out. The accountants analysing the data in our case are somewhat
unique. They are part of the engineering set up and specialise in
looking at long term prospects and "best value" solutions well past
franchise end dates. If the professionals were that keen, then there
would be very few Valentas left running by now. The improvements
carried out will hopefully give a more level playing field. I suspect
from a personal viewpoint that the chances of wholesale 185
installations have not been helped by the latest press release from
Paxman. Operators have bitter experience of trying to get service from
suppliers undergoing "re-organisations" and no matter how good the
product, threats to stability of supply tend to put customers off.

In message <sk8Je.83783$G8.32830@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, 
DJ_Crazy_Frog  writes

>Ok, I stand corrected, but  MAN is MAN no matter what name
>is tagged on the end.  The CEO is the CEO over EVERY company
>within the MAN group.

Didn't MAN combine with Maybach to form MTU?
-- 
Clive

Clive wrote:


> Didn't MAN combine with Maybach to form MTU?



Complex !!!


Different parts of the MAN group that were in existance three decades
back yes - but not the same MAN part that is MAN B&W.

As it happens I am working on a draft including this very subject for
another reason, and have it on hand -

''...
fusion of Maybach Mercedes Daimler and MAN marques brought the MTU name
into being 1969 after Daimler Benz and MAN merge operations,
concentrating diesel manufacture in Friedrichshafen. ...

.... In 1961 the Friedrichshafen factory began building Mercedes Benz
engines. This was followed by a series of name changes after 1963 when
Mercedes Benz Motorenbau merged in 1966 with Maybach Motorenbau to
create Maybach Mercedes Benz Motorenbau. In 1969 Daimler Benz AG and
MAN AG integrated their high speed diesel engine and turbine interests,
and a renaming to Motoren und Turbinen Union Friedrichshafen. Renamed
in 1978 to MTU Motoren und Turbinen Union Friedrichshafen , and again
in 2001 after Daimler Chrysler AG acquired the US based Detroit Diesel
Corporation, adopting the simpler title MTU Friedrichshafen.
....''


It has been reported MTU Friedrichshafen may be spun off from Daimler
Chrysler as a stand alone concern. One of the interested buyers is
reputed to be MTU Turbinen - itself spun off some time before.

MAN B&W is a different part of the MAN group that came about after MAN
bought Burmiester & Wain (or however it is spelled) of Denmark. The MAN
B&W group then acquired SEMT-Pielstick [mentioned further back up the
thread] , and bought the diesels from GEC-Alstolm as it was then, that
coveres the Ruston Mirrless and Paxman ranges.

--
Nick