As usual the booking office at Hayes & Harlington was shut today
(Sunday) at 17.00. So I got a PTT ticket from the machine. The next
train was a Connect. Somehow I KNEW that there'd be a problem. Sure
enough I was asked by the Connect gripper to purchase a single ticket
to Paddington. When I explained I wanted a Travelcard Zones 1-6 I was
told that I'd have to get that with the PTT at Paddington. But I was
still requested to purchase a single ticket from H&H to Paddington IN
ADDITION - and with NO REFUND. I refused. The gripper got quite upset
and called for a colleague. They couldn't tell me why FGWL grippers CAN
issue a Travelcard in return for a PTT, whilst the Connect/FGWL
grippers could not. They gave me a hard time which on a Sunday
afternoon I did not need. But this is typical of the aggressive way
that these Connect trains are being administered and run. CJB.

On 31 Jul 2005 11:45:43 -0700, "CJB"
 wrote:


>As usual the booking office at Hayes & Harlington was shut today
>(Sunday) at 17.00. So I got a PTT ticket from the machine. The next
>train was a Connect. Somehow I KNEW that there'd be a problem. Sure
>enough I was asked by the Connect gripper to purchase a single ticket
>to Paddington. When I explained I wanted a Travelcard Zones 1-6 I was
>told that I'd have to get that with the PTT at Paddington. But I was
>still requested to purchase a single ticket from H&H to Paddington IN
>ADDITION - and with NO REFUND. I refused. The gripper got quite upset
>and called for a colleague. They couldn't tell me why FGWL grippers CAN
>issue a Travelcard in return for a PTT, whilst the Connect/FGWL
>grippers could not. They gave me a hard time which on a Sunday
>afternoon I did not need. But this is typical of the aggressive way
>that these Connect trains are being administered and run. CJB.


So what happened in the end?

CJB wrote:

> As usual the booking office at Hayes & Harlington was shut today
> (Sunday) at 17.00. So I got a PTT ticket from the machine. The next
> train was a Connect. Somehow I KNEW that there'd be a problem. Sure
> enough I was asked by the Connect gripper to purchase a single
> ticket to Paddington. When I explained I wanted a Travelcard Zones
> 1-6 I was told that I'd have to get that with the PTT at
> Paddington. But I was still requested to purchase a single ticket
> from H&H to Paddington IN ADDITION - and with NO REFUND. I refused.
> The gripper got quite upset and called for a colleague. They
> couldn't tell me why FGWL grippers CAN issue a Travelcard in return
> for a PTT, whilst the Connect/FGWL grippers could not. They gave me
> a hard time which on a Sunday afternoon I did not need. But this is
> typical of the aggressive way that these Connect trains are being
> administered and run. CJB.


Sounds as if it might be interesting next weekend (6/7 August) if LU go
ahead with the planned track replacement project on the Piccadilly.
Zone 1-6 Travelcards and Freedom Passes are supposed to be valid for
that weekend on HEx and Heathrow Connect.
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

> But this is typical of the aggressive way
> that these Connect trains are being administered and run. CJB.


Naah, typical of the agressive way the entire Paddington-Reading line
is run.

How much was your PTT for? I assume you'd put as much as possilbe into
the machine?

Write to the TOC in question and complain. Also tell us the outcome :)

CJB wrote:

> As usual the booking office at Hayes & Harlington was shut today
> (Sunday) at 17.00. So I got a PTT ticket from the machine. The next
> train was a Connect. Somehow I KNEW that there'd be a problem. Sure
> enough I was asked by the Connect gripper to purchase a single ticket
> to Paddington. When I explained I wanted a Travelcard Zones 1-6 I was
> told that I'd have to get that with the PTT at Paddington. But I was
> still requested to purchase a single ticket from H&H to Paddington IN
> ADDITION - and with NO REFUND. I refused. The gripper got quite upset
> and called for a colleague. They couldn't tell me why FGWL grippers CAN
> issue a Travelcard in return for a PTT, whilst the Connect/FGWL
> grippers could not. They gave me a hard time which on a Sunday
> afternoon I did not need. But this is typical of the aggressive way
> that these Connect trains are being administered and run. CJB.


Have they been equipped with Oyster readers yet? The few times I've
used it they have looked very suspiciously at my Oyster (which contains
a Z1-3 season) but ludicrously have no way of checking it.

> Have they been equipped with Oyster readers yet? The few times I've
> used it they have looked very suspiciously at my Oyster (which contains
> a Z1-3 season) but ludicrously have no way of checking it.


Maybe they`ve lost them. They certainly had them on the first Monday of
operation as they checked my oystercard that day. Haven`t used the
service since.

Maybe they are fed up with being asked where the train is going. The
matrix displays have been "out of use" at Hayes (and West Drayton) for
the best part of a week now. And the one at Southall was displaying the
"Connex apologies for the failure of this display" message or whatever
it is. 

Stu

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:46:15 GMT, "Richard J."
 wrote:


>
>Sounds as if it might be interesting next weekend (6/7 August) if LU go
>ahead with the planned track replacement project on the Piccadilly.
>Zone 1-6 Travelcards and Freedom Passes are supposed to be valid for
>that weekend on HEx and Heathrow Connect.
>-- 
>Richard J.
>(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
>


Cant see that on the TFL website. Is is really happening?

TIA

JohnK

John F Kappler wrote:


> Cant see that on the TFL website. Is is really happening?


I've been checking too - it was in anadvance press release some weeks
ago but so far has failed to appear in an actual announcement of
engineering works travel arrangements.

Unless they are keeping it quiet and advertising it only locally ?
Would not surprise me if HEx want it that way.

--
Nick

johnk@pceffect.co.uk (John F Kappler) wrote in 
news:42ee6bf3.46568984@giganews.nildram.co.uk:


> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:46:15 GMT, "Richard J."
>  wrote:
> 
>>
>>Sounds as if it might be interesting next weekend (6/7 August) if LU go
>>ahead with the planned track replacement project on the Piccadilly.
>>Zone 1-6 Travelcards and Freedom Passes are supposed to be valid for
>>that weekend on HEx and Heathrow Connect.
>>-- 
>>Richard J.
>>(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
>>
> 
> Cant see that on the TFL website. Is is really happening?
> 
> TIA
> 
> JohnK


The original press release is still there, see 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-
content.asp?prID=398

David

David Jackman wrote:


>
> The original press release is still there, see
>
> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-
> content.asp?prID=398



And this weeks updated weekend travel arrangements clearly show the
same work is taking place but does not refer to HEx validity:


http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/service_rt_tube.shtml


Who shall we despatch from uk.railway to find out on the first day to
report back ?


--
Nick

D7666 wrote:

> David Jackman wrote:
>
>>
>> The original press release is still there, see
>>
>> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-
>> content.asp?prID=398
>
>
> And this weeks updated weekend travel arrangements clearly show the
> same work is taking place but does not refer to HEx validity:
>
>
> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/service_rt_tube.shtml


I've sent a complaint form to LU to ask them to clarify the situation.
Will post here when I get a reply.


> Who shall we despatch from uk.railway to find out on the first day
> to report back ?


I will try it on Sunday 7th August but am otherwise occupied on Saturday
6th.
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

There was a poster at Victoria Underground station yesterday,
advertising the Piccadilly line closure and clearly stating that Zone
1-6 Travelcards and Oystercards would be valid on HEx and Connect.
Didn't say whether my Z1-4 + prepay would be though.

Dominic

On 2 Aug 2005 00:47:39 -0700, "Dominic"  wrote:


>There was a poster at Victoria Underground station yesterday,
>advertising the Piccadilly line closure and clearly stating that Zone
>1-6 Travelcards and Oystercards would be valid on HEx and Connect.
>Didn't say whether my Z1-4 + prepay would be though.


From the TfL Press Release [1]:

<quote>

LU customers who hold a valid London Underground Zone 1-6 Travelcard
(both season and day tickets), a London Underground Zone 1-6 Oystercard
(not PrePay) or a Freedom Pass are allowed to travel between Heathrow
and Paddington on the Heathrow Express or the Heathrow Connect service.

</quote>

HTH,

Barry

[1] <http://snipurl.com/picc_dist_work>

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

"Dominic"  wrote in message 
news:1122968859.379601.37840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

> There was a poster at Victoria Underground station yesterday,
> advertising the Piccadilly line closure and clearly stating that Zone
> 1-6 Travelcards and Oystercards would be valid on HEx and Connect.
> Didn't say whether my Z1-4 + prepay would be though.


As prepay is only valid on certain, declared, routes, and this not being one 
of them your ticket would almost definitely not be valid. I'd expect your 
Z1-4 with a pre-bought extension to Zone 6 to be valid though. Assume you 
can buy paper zonal extensions to Oyster season tickets.

Dave.

Richard J. wrote:

> D7666 wrote:
>> David Jackman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The original press release is still there, see
>>>
>>>

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-centre/press-releases/press-releases-

>>> content.asp?prID=398
>>
>>
>> And this weeks updated weekend travel arrangements clearly show the
>> same work is taking place but does not refer to HEx validity:
>>
>>
>> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/service_rt_tube.shtml
>
> I've sent a complaint form to LU to ask them to clarify the
> situation. Will post here when I get a reply.


I got a reply this afternoon which indicated that we can expect the
Realtime Travel News page to be updated, but there's no mention of Hex
or HC yet (19:20 2nd Aug).
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:

> Richard J. wrote:
>> D7666 wrote:
>>> And this weeks updated weekend travel arrangements clearly show
>>> the same work is taking place but does not refer to HEx validity:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/service_rt_tube.shtml
>>
>> I've sent a complaint form to LU to ask them to clarify the
>> situation. Will post here when I get a reply.
>
> I got a reply this afternoon which indicated that we can expect the
> Realtime Travel News page to be updated, but there's no mention of
> Hex or HC yet (19:20 2nd Aug).


Update:  The TfL/LU website now says, in relation to the weekend of 6/7
August, "Customers who have Zone 1-6 Travelcards or Freedom Passes may
use the Heathrow Express/Connect services between Central London/Ealing
Broadway and Heathrow. Please note that no other Travelcards will be
accepted for any journey on these services."
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:38:46 GMT, "Richard J."
 wrote:


>Richard J. wrote:
>> Richard J. wrote:
>>> D7666 wrote:
>>>> And this weeks updated weekend travel arrangements clearly show
>>>> the same work is taking place but does not refer to HEx validity:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/service_rt_tube.shtml
>>>
>>> I've sent a complaint form to LU to ask them to clarify the
>>> situation. Will post here when I get a reply.
>>
>> I got a reply this afternoon which indicated that we can expect the
>> Realtime Travel News page to be updated, but there's no mention of
>> Hex or HC yet (19:20 2nd Aug).
>
>Update:  The TfL/LU website now says, in relation to the weekend of 6/7
>August, "Customers who have Zone 1-6 Travelcards or Freedom Passes may
>use the Heathrow Express/Connect services between Central London/Ealing
>Broadway and Heathrow. Please note that no other Travelcards will be
>accepted for any journey on these services."
>-- 
>Richard J.
>(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
>

Pardon my ignorance...

If I buy a one day Travelcard at Didcot (All Zones) does that qualify
as a "Zone 1-6 Travelcard"

It sounds a good opportunity and I dont want to have the "wrong
ticket"!

TIA

JohnK

I hope that someone has informed the RPI guys that Travelcards are
valid from Hayes & Harlington to/from Heathrow. Actually this would be
a good time to travel on Connect from Paddington right through to
Terminal 4 (last train every day, dep: Pad. at about 23.00'ish).

With regards to Permit to Travels apparently not being valid on Connect
I refused to purchase a single from Hayes to Paddington without a
guarantee of being refunded when I exchanged the PTT for a 1-6zone
Travelcard. The RPI said what guarantee could I give that I would
purchase a Travelcard when I got to Paddington. I replied that having
travelled on the line for 20 years or more, I alway purchased a
Travelcard whenever I could, and I did want to go home by rail at the
end of the evening. I then asked why he could not issue me a Travelcard
when FGWL (and Thames Trains) always could. He had no answer. He gave
up.

These RPI guys on Connect are so aggressive about tickets checks. But I
also asked how they kept account of those purchasing ordinary tickets
and those travelling on Travelcards. After all the revenue from
ordinary tickets must go totally to FGBL / BAA. But the revenue from
Travelcards must surely be shared out amongst all TOCs. So if Connect
doesn't bother to keep some sort of records of how many passengers are
travelling of what tickets, from and to where - then surely the
passengers numbers and revenue cannot be accurate. Strange for such a
costly and expensive service which must be making a horrendous loss due
to so few using it.

CJB.

John F Kappler wrote:


> Pardon my ignorance...
>
> If I buy a one day Travelcard at Didcot (All Zones) does that qualify
> as a "Zone 1-6 Travelcard"


Yes, that ticket is effectively a day return from Didcot to boundary
Zone 6, and a Zone 1-6 travelcard combined.

Rupert Candy wrote:

> John F Kappler wrote:
>
>> Pardon my ignorance...
>>
>> If I buy a one day Travelcard at Didcot (All Zones) does that
>> qualify as a "Zone 1-6 Travelcard"
>
> Yes, that ticket is effectively a day return from Didcot to boundary
> Zone 6, and a Zone 1-6 travelcard combined.


However, TfL's set of FAQs on the weekend closures* says that only the
following tickets will be accepted on HEx and Connect:

  LU Zone 1-6 Travelcards
  LU Zone 1-6 one day Travelcards
  Freedom Passes
  Oyster Zone 1-6 Travelcards

By specifically saying "LU ... Travelcards", that appears to exclude NR
tickets which include Travelcards.

Also, they say that "a Zone 2-6 Travelcard will NOT be valid on the
Heathrow Connect service from Ealing Broadway to Heathrow", despite the
journey being in zones 3-6.  Only a Zone 1-6 Travelcard will be
accepted.

I assume that LU are having to pay an arm and a leg to BAA to enable LU
passengers to use BAA's private railway, and hence LU want to make sure
that they get some of this back from passengers in the form of LU Zone
1-6 Travelcards.

* http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinfo/picc-dis-weekend-closure.asp

-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:31:46 GMT, "Richard J."
 wrote:


>Rupert Candy wrote:
>> John F Kappler wrote:
>>
>>> Pardon my ignorance...
>>>
>>> If I buy a one day Travelcard at Didcot (All Zones) does that
>>> qualify as a "Zone 1-6 Travelcard"
>>
>> Yes, that ticket is effectively a day return from Didcot to boundary
>> Zone 6, and a Zone 1-6 travelcard combined.
>
>However, TfL's set of FAQs on the weekend closures* says that only the
>following tickets will be accepted on HEx and Connect:
>
>  LU Zone 1-6 Travelcards
>  LU Zone 1-6 one day Travelcards
>  Freedom Passes
>  Oyster Zone 1-6 Travelcards
>
>By specifically saying "LU ... Travelcards", that appears to exclude NR
>tickets which include Travelcards.
>
>Also, they say that "a Zone 2-6 Travelcard will NOT be valid on the
>Heathrow Connect service from Ealing Broadway to Heathrow", despite the
>journey being in zones 3-6.  Only a Zone 1-6 Travelcard will be
>accepted.
>
>I assume that LU are having to pay an arm and a leg to BAA to enable LU
>passengers to use BAA's private railway, and hence LU want to make sure
>that they get some of this back from passengers in the form of LU Zone
>1-6 Travelcards.
>
>* http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinfo/picc-dis-weekend-closure.asp
>
>-- 
>Richard J.
>(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
>

Thanks for that reply. Maybe I was right to be suspicious!

If anyone has more clarification or even, after this weekend,
experience, perhaps they could let us all know.

TIA,

JohnK

John F Kappler wrote:


> Thanks for that reply. Maybe I was right to be suspicious!


Sorry - I should have paid more attention to the context!

In article , CJB
 writes

>As usual the booking office at Hayes & Harlington was shut today
>(Sunday) at 17.00. So I got a PTT ticket from the machine. The next
>train was a Connect. Somehow I KNEW that there'd be a problem. Sure
>enough I was asked by the Connect gripper to purchase a single ticket
>to Paddington. When I explained I wanted a Travelcard Zones 1-6 I was
>told that I'd have to get that with the PTT at Paddington. But I was
>still requested to purchase a single ticket from H&H to Paddington IN
>ADDITION - and with NO REFUND. I refused. The gripper got quite upset
>and called for a colleague. They couldn't tell me why FGWL grippers CAN
>issue a Travelcard in return for a PTT, whilst the Connect/FGWL
>grippers could not. They gave me a hard time which on a Sunday
>afternoon I did not need. But this is typical of the aggressive way
>that these Connect trains are being administered and run. CJB.
>


The Connect service is also the local all stations service from Hayes &
Harlington to Paddington run by FGWL so I can't see why they cannot
issue a Travelcard - Interesting to know what the outcome is
I hope they allow NSE railcard discounts at weekends, when the 10
minimum fare does not apply.

-- 
Al

I asked a RPI guy on Connect last nght and he said that ordinary Zone
1-6 Travelcards will be valid at the weekends as I showed him my local
shop bought one. So I guess that it doesn't matter if its a LU one or a
NR one or a shop bought one - just so long as its zones 1-6.

However I bet when airline passengers arrive from overseas and are
directed to HEX or Connect they are STILL charged the full fare (£15
or £9) for travelling from Heathrow to Paddington.

That's what they did on 7/7 and 21/7 when the Piccadilly line was out -
like the hotels they still charged the full rates on those days. Talk
about taking commercial advantage of others' misfortunes.

I still can't see how Connect can make a profit - it runs half empty to
empty most of the time, they don't record which pax are travelling on
which type of ticket, and they can't issue Travelcards in exchange for
Permits to Travel.

CJB

Just checked the

* the HEX website and
* the Connect website and
* the BAA - Heathrow website

and they all make absolutely NO mention of any special deal whilst the
Pic. Line is out. Zero, zilch, sfa.

ALSO airport workers are usually allowed to travel on HEX for free if
the Pic. Line is closed. But not this time round - they're fair game to
have to pay like everyone else.

Welcome to ripoff Britain folks.

CJB.

CJB wrote:


> I still can't see how Connect can make a profit - it runs half
> empty to empty most of the time, they don't record which pax are
> travelling on which type of ticket,


It only started in June, so it's early days for a new service.  Not sure
what your point is about not recording ticket information.  They will
know what tickets have been sold for journeys to/from Heathrow, so BAA
will get a slice of that revenue.  The rest goes to FGWL, subject to the
usual sharing out of Travelcard revenue, the same as for any other line
in London.
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:16:47 GMT, Richard J. wrote:


> BAA will get a slice of that revenue.  The rest goes to FGWL, subject
> to the usual sharing out of Travelcard revenue, the same as for any
> other line in London.


So, travelcards - can you use them on Connect but not Hex, then?

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p10589947.html
(37 092 at London Liverpool Street, 13 Apr 1980)

> So, travelcards - can you use them on Connect but not Hex, then?


Correct. If you have a travelcard including zone 5 (hayes) and your
starting station (PAD = 1, Ealings = 3, Southall = 4) you pay the
excess Hayes-Heathrow £6 each way fare.

"Chris Tolley"  wrote in message
news:sebjj3wdb23j$.1dpzyouwbc01y$.dlg@40tude.net...

> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:16:47 GMT, Richard J. wrote:
>
> > BAA will get a slice of that revenue.  The rest goes to FGWL, subject
> > to the usual sharing out of Travelcard revenue, the same as for any
> > other line in London.
>
> So, travelcards - can you use them on Connect but not Hex, then?


Only as far as Hayes.

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 21:38:42 +0100, Ian Harper wrote:


> "Chris Tolley"  wrote in message
> news:sebjj3wdb23j$.1dpzyouwbc01y$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 11:16:47 GMT, Richard J. wrote:
>>
>>> BAA will get a slice of that revenue.  The rest goes to FGWL, subject
>>> to the usual sharing out of Travelcard revenue, the same as for any
>>> other line in London.
>>
>> So, travelcards - can you use them on Connect but not Hex, then?
> 
> Only as far as Hayes.


Thanks to you and Paul W for the answers.
-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632999.html
(43 196 at Nottingham, Aug 1982)