I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly improved
the acceleration response and performance from the engine.  I don't know
if it has improved the top end speed as I'm not too bothered about that
as I never drive flat out, but it has definitely improved the torque and
acceleration and I'm using a lot less throttle on roads that I
previously had to use more throttle or even change down a gear.  I don't
know if it's because I drive a smallish size car and therefore any
slight increase in performance is going to be more noticeable but I'm 
very pleased and the first thing I've ever bought that actually does 
what it says on the tin.

In article ,
   Mark  wrote:

> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
> treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly improved
> the acceleration response and performance from the engine.


It's amazing how a bit of extra noise cons the brain.

-- 
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4d9291a9a5dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article ,
>   Mark  wrote:
>> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
>> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
>> treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly
>> improved
>> the acceleration response and performance from the engine.
>
> It's amazing how a bit of extra noise cons the brain.


You would think so wouldn't you but there's actually less noise.  With
the paper filter (which was new) there was a lot more air induction 
noise on open throttle.

"Mark"  wrote in message 
news:3l1903Fun5dvU1@individual.net...

> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
> treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly improved
> the acceleration response and performance from the engine.  I don't know
> if it has improved the top end speed as I'm not too bothered about that
> as I never drive flat out, but it has definitely improved the torque and
> acceleration and I'm using a lot less throttle on roads that I
> previously had to use more throttle or even change down a gear.


I remain unconvinced about your claims.

It did nothing for Kermit's quarter mile time nor his fuel consumption, but 
it has more than paid for itself by now since it's washable and reusable.


> I don't
> know if it's because I drive a smallish size car and therefore any
> slight increase in performance is going to be more noticeable but I'm very 
> pleased and the first thing I've ever bought that actually does what it 
> says on the tin.




-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
news:1h0isom.m1wr2y11v7hl2N%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...

> Mark  wrote:
>
>> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message

>> > It's amazing how a bit of extra noise cons the brain.
>>
>> You would think so wouldn't you but there's actually less noise.
>> With
>> the paper filter (which was new) there was a lot more air induction
>> noise on open throttle.
>
> Are you talking about a K&N kit or a replacement for the original


Just the replacement filter.  I'm a sceptical person by nature but read
various other posts from people with a similar car (Daewoo Lanos 1.4)
who were more than surprised at the difference in performance a K&N
made.  Now I don't know if this could be partly down to a bad design of
the air intake system on these cars, but when pushing hard with the
original paper filter you would get a loud roaring noise through the air
intake system and little power increase. It sounded like it was
struggling to suck in enough air.  The airbox itself goes into the side
wing behind the plastic splash guard and into another large box.  I 
don't know if this is normal but I was surprised how small the hole is 
that sucks in the air and also that it points towards the rear of the 
car.

All I can say is that a K&N has definitely made a big difference in my
case and well worth the 28. I drive the same roads & inclines and know
exactly where I would previously have needed to change down a gear but
now has much more pull and response to the throttle without the loud
roar through the intake.

"Mark"  wrote in message 
news:3l1rtkF10cna5U1@individual.net...

> "Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
> news:1h0isom.m1wr2y11v7hl2N%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...
>> Mark  wrote:
>>
>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
>
>>> > It's amazing how a bit of extra noise cons the brain.
>>>
>>> You would think so wouldn't you but there's actually less noise.
>>> With
>>> the paper filter (which was new) there was a lot more air induction
>>> noise on open throttle.
>>
>> Are you talking about a K&N kit or a replacement for the original
>
> Just the replacement filter.  I'm a sceptical person by nature but read
> various other posts from people with a similar car (Daewoo Lanos 1.4)
> who were more than surprised at the difference in performance a K&N
> made.  Now I don't know if this could be partly down to a bad design of
> the air intake system on these cars, but when pushing hard with the
> original paper filter you would get a loud roaring noise through the air
> intake system and little power increase. It sounded like it was
> struggling to suck in enough air.


Hmm.  How would you recognise this sound? :)


> The airbox itself goes into the side
> wing behind the plastic splash guard and into another large box.  I don't 
> know if this is normal but I was surprised how small the hole is that 
> sucks in the air and also that it points towards the rear of the car.


It's reasonably normal.  But since you are using the same induction system, 
just a different air filter, it won't make much difference.  The reason for 
this is because of the size of the air filter relative to the intake and the 
trunking.  It's much bigger, right?

There _may_ be a difference because air can pass better through the filter, 
but it won't be significant.


> All I can say is that a K&N has definitely made a big difference in my
> case and well worth the 28. I drive the same roads & inclines and know
> exactly where I would previously have needed to change down a gear but
> now has much more pull and response to the throttle without the loud
> roar through the intake.


Yes, but have you checked the data (say using an OBD-II Scanner* or 
similar), or had the car on a rolling road?  With ours (yes, not the same 
engine of course) there's no statistically provable difference in throttle 
positions for various cruising speeds.

Unless you're using lots of throttle, the ECU won't enrich the air:fuel 
mixture and you'll still burn the same amount of petrol to produce the same 
amount of power to produce the same amount of torque...

I can make a bigger difference running higher tyre pressures.

If it's producing less noise (ours is quieter wearing the K & N replacement 
panel filter), you may be mistaken for believing that you're using less 
throttle.

*something like www.dervman.com/obdii.htm?

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

"DervMan"  wrote in
news:EzMGe.15527$Oe4.15384@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net: 


> "Mark"  wrote in message 
> news:3l1903Fun5dvU1@individual.net...
>> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
>> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
>> treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly
>> improved the acceleration response and performance from the engine. 
>> I don't know if it has improved the top end speed as I'm not too
>> bothered about that as I never drive flat out, but it has definitely
>> improved the torque and acceleration and I'm using a lot less
>> throttle on roads that I previously had to use more throttle or even
>> change down a gear. 
> 
> I remain unconvinced about your claims.
> 
> It did nothing for Kermit's quarter mile time nor his fuel
> consumption, but it has more than paid for itself by now since it's
> washable and reusable. 
> 

I tried a K&N element once. It *seemed* faster at first, but I eventually 
accepted that it had made bugger all difference. Mind over matter, placebo 
effect, call it what you will, but I reckon that's what it's all about 
(IMHO).


-- 
Stuart Sharp

Mark wrote:

> 
[...]
> 
> All I can say is that a K&N has definitely made a big difference in my
> case and well worth the 28. I drive the same roads & inclines and know
> exactly where I would previously have needed to change down a gear but
> now has much more pull and response to the throttle without the loud
> roar through the intake.


Any performance increase must come from less resistance in the filter. 
This worries me a great deal. If you live in or near a large city, there
will be a lot of dust in the air. My car is covered by a fine layer of
dust just 24 hours after washing.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:33:11 GMT, Johannes
 wrote:


>
>
>Mark wrote:
>> 
>[...]
>> 
>> All I can say is that a K&N has definitely made a big difference in my
>> case and well worth the 28. I drive the same roads & inclines and know
>> exactly where I would previously have needed to change down a gear but
>> now has much more pull and response to the throttle without the loud
>> roar through the intake.
>
>Any performance increase must come from less resistance in the filter. 
>This worries me a great deal. If you live in or near a large city, there
>will be a lot of dust in the air. My car is covered by a fine layer of
>dust just 24 hours after washing.


BANG ON!

K&N is a competion filter.  It's just a bit better than a wire gauze.
Wire gauze stops big stuff like small birds, bumble bees, stones and
large grit geting in. Also prevents damage from other teams crews
flicking nuts at you!  The K&N stops finer muck than a gauze but
really fine stuff eventually passes though.

"Peter Hill"  wrote in message 
news:chuse1ds6terji0dtbpph8sl1m5bc5vkj0@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 15:33:11 GMT, Johannes
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Mark wrote:
>>>
>>[...]
>>>
>>> All I can say is that a K&N has definitely made a big difference in my
>>> case and well worth the 28. I drive the same roads & inclines and know
>>> exactly where I would previously have needed to change down a gear but
>>> now has much more pull and response to the throttle without the loud
>>> roar through the intake.
>>
>>Any performance increase must come from less resistance in the filter.
>>This worries me a great deal. If you live in or near a large city, there
>>will be a lot of dust in the air. My car is covered by a fine layer of
>>dust just 24 hours after washing.
>
> BANG ON!
>
> K&N is a competion filter.  It's just a bit better than a wire gauze.
> Wire gauze stops big stuff like small birds, bumble bees, stones and
> large grit geting in. Also prevents damage from other teams crews
> flicking nuts at you!  The K&N stops finer muck than a gauze but
> really fine stuff eventually passes though.



That's what the oil is for...

Mind you, I find the K & N great for stopping puppies and small children 
from being sucked up into the engine. :)

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:55:31 -0500, Stu wrote:


> "DervMan"  wrote in
> news:EzMGe.15527$Oe4.15384@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net: 
> 
>> "Mark"  wrote in message 
>> news:3l1903Fun5dvU1@individual.net...
>>> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
>>> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
>>> treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly
>>> improved the acceleration response and performance from the engine. 
>>> I don't know if it has improved the top end speed as I'm not too
>>> bothered about that as I never drive flat out, but it has definitely
>>> improved the torque and acceleration and I'm using a lot less
>>> throttle on roads that I previously had to use more throttle or even
>>> change down a gear. 
>> 
>> I remain unconvinced about your claims.
>> 
>> It did nothing for Kermit's quarter mile time nor his fuel
>> consumption, but it has more than paid for itself by now since it's
>> washable and reusable. 
>> 
> I tried a K&N element once. It *seemed* faster at first, but I eventually 
> accepted that it had made bugger all difference. Mind over matter, placebo 
> effect, call it what you will, but I reckon that's what it's all about 
> (IMHO).


The focus owners club took various induction kits for diesel and did some
RR tests. The general conclusion was that a K&N gave maybe a 1 to 2%
increase and that's probably within the equipment error anyway.

>>> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
>>> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.


If you switch the Eastcoast power booster to the maximum-27bhp on the 
Citroen/Peugeot hdi engines, they stipulate the paper filter be replaced by 
a K&N. 38 but you never buy another filter. Wash in solvent every couple of 
years and spray the cotton element with light oil.
(The extra performance is definitely not bollox).
DaveK.

"Chris Street"  wrote in message 
news:13yzv01bh9jxr$.195ua3yerxw7m.dlg@40tude.net...

> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 16:55:31 -0500, Stu wrote:
>
>> "DervMan"  wrote in
>> news:EzMGe.15527$Oe4.15384@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net:
>>
>>> "Mark"  wrote in message
>>> news:3l1903Fun5dvU1@individual.net...
>>>> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
>>>> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
>>>> treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly
>>>> improved the acceleration response and performance from the engine.
>>>> I don't know if it has improved the top end speed as I'm not too
>>>> bothered about that as I never drive flat out, but it has definitely
>>>> improved the torque and acceleration and I'm using a lot less
>>>> throttle on roads that I previously had to use more throttle or even
>>>> change down a gear.
>>>
>>> I remain unconvinced about your claims.
>>>
>>> It did nothing for Kermit's quarter mile time nor his fuel
>>> consumption, but it has more than paid for itself by now since it's
>>> washable and reusable.
>>>
>> I tried a K&N element once. It *seemed* faster at first, but I eventually
>> accepted that it had made bugger all difference. Mind over matter, 
>> placebo
>> effect, call it what you will, but I reckon that's what it's all about
>> (IMHO).
>
> The focus owners club took various induction kits for diesel and did some
> RR tests. The general conclusion was that a K&N gave maybe a 1 to 2%
> increase and that's probably within the equipment error anyway.


Correct, and in any event, you're not going to feel or see 2% on the road, 
not even if you're doing a traffic light shoot out against another car of 
the same type, heh.

You can achieve a greater difference through tyre pressures, ambient air 
temperature, or whatever.

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 21:50:47 GMT, DervMan wrote:


> You can achieve a greater difference through tyre pressures, ambient air 
> temperature, or whatever.


Snow on the intercooler is always fun but it doesn't last....

Mark  wrote:


> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
> news:4d9291a9a5dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article ,
> >   Mark  wrote:
> >> I've been reading various posts on K&N filters with some saying they
> >> give better performance and others saying it's all bollox.  Anyway I
> >> treated myself to one and I can honestly say that it has vastly
> >> improved
> >> the acceleration response and performance from the engine.
> >
> > It's amazing how a bit of extra noise cons the brain.
> 
> You would think so wouldn't you but there's actually less noise.  With
> the paper filter (which was new) there was a lot more air induction 
> noise on open throttle. 


Are you talking about a K&N kit or a replacement for the original
filter?

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

Mark  wrote:


> "Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message
> news:1h0isom.m1wr2y11v7hl2N%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...
> > Mark  wrote:
> >
> >> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
> 
> >> > It's amazing how a bit of extra noise cons the brain.
> >>
> >> You would think so wouldn't you but there's actually less noise.
> >> With
> >> the paper filter (which was new) there was a lot more air induction
> >> noise on open throttle.
> >
> > Are you talking about a K&N kit or a replacement for the original
> 
> Just the replacement filter. 


Righto, they're OK.


> I'm a sceptical person by nature but read
> various other posts from people with a similar car (Daewoo Lanos 1.4)
> who were more than surprised at the difference in performance a K&N
> made.  Now I don't know if this could be partly down to a bad design of
> the air intake system on these cars, but when pushing hard with the
> original paper filter you would get a loud roaring noise through the air
> intake system and little power increase. It sounded like it was
> struggling to suck in enough air.  The airbox itself goes into the side
> wing behind the plastic splash guard and into another large box.  I 
> don't know if this is normal but I was surprised how small the hole is
> that sucks in the air and also that it points towards the rear of the
> car.


The air intake will have been designed to compromise in almost every
area - noise, power, economy and emissions.


> All I can say is that a K&N has definitely made a big difference in my
> case and well worth the 28. I drive the same roads & inclines and know
> exactly where I would previously have needed to change down a gear but
> now has much more pull and response to the throttle without the loud
> roar through the intake.


That's possible, yes. However, also make sure it doesn't upset the
emissions, you wouldn't want to fail a road-side test!

The roar will probably be because of the restriction in the air flow
with the OE filter, it will probably cause a harmonic resonance to build
up under certain conditions. This is actually desireable to a small
extent, as it can agitate the air flow and aid complete burning in the
cylinders.

One thing is for certain, if a manufacturer could attain all their
specifications using a K&N design of filter, they would have used it.
There will be a loss somewhere, although probably nothing much.

For sure cost is a factor, but at the volumes of units sold to a
manufacturer, it wouldn't make much, if any, difference there.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

"Chris Street"  wrote in message 
news:1urxww73rheyt$.1qjkhupaz95wg.dlg@40tude.net...

> On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 21:50:47 GMT, DervMan wrote:
>
>> You can achieve a greater difference through tyre pressures, ambient air
>> temperature, or whatever.
>
> Snow on the intercooler is always fun but it doesn't last....


Sodastream CO2 as well...

-- 
The DervMan
www.dervman.com