I was thinking about this today, how exactly did they think it was
going to work? I remember reading that before the class 180's were
ordered, FGW planned to use HST's to Bristol and split some of them
into two portions with one going to Weston Super Mare, and the other
down to the West Country.

Of course a very nice idea with some drawbacks...exactly how were they
going to 'split' the train? The other portion would've been facing the
wrong direction to start with, and one portion would've been made up of
one standard class coach, a buffet and two and a half first class!

Exactly how fast are HST's allowed to go without the second power car?
The line speed beyond Bristol is 110mph if i am not mistaken.

therunawayminetrain@lycos.co.uk wrote:

> I was thinking about this today, how exactly did they think it was
> going to work? I remember reading that before the class 180's were
> ordered, FGW planned to use HST's to Bristol and split some of them
> into two portions with one going to Weston Super Mare, and the other
> down to the West Country.
> 
> Of course a very nice idea with some drawbacks...exactly how were they
> going to 'split' the train? The other portion would've been facing the
> wrong direction to start with, and one portion would've been made up of
> one standard class coach, a buffet and two and a half first class!
> 
> Exactly how fast are HST's allowed to go without the second power car?
> The line speed beyond Bristol is 110mph if i am not mistaken.


Although not *quite* HSTs, the original plan for the XPTs (HST-clone
power cars, Budd coaches) in Australia was that they'd run with two
power cars into/out of Sydney and split/join to serve less popular
destinations, sticking a DVT on the 'other end'.

pete
-- 
pete@fenelon.com "There's no room for enigmas in built-up areas"

On 29 Jul 2005 14:13:37 -0700, therunawayminetrain@lycos.co.uk wrote:


>I was thinking about this today, how exactly did they think it was
>going to work?


Presumably power car + 4 or 5 + DVT.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Neil
Williams  gently breathed:

>On 29 Jul 2005 14:13:37 -0700, therunawayminetrain@lycos.co.uk wrote:

>>I was thinking about this today, how exactly did they think it was
>>going to work?

>Presumably power car + 4 or 5 + DVT.


Could somethink like an SR EMU half-cab not have been constructed at the
end of a Mk3 coach, posibly a half-buffet vehicle, allowing a set to
split where the two inner cabs faced each other?

If the train was reformed as two halves :

PC - TSO - TSO - TSO - FO - RMBTSOC

then there'd be no need for shunting bar the actual split/couple.

Back in the 1960s Swindon Class 126 DMUs were built this way, full cab
at one end, half cab at the other, so a 6 car train could run with full
through gangway, but the two 3-car halves could split and run
independently.

NP: Nightwish - 10th Man Down.
-- 
 - Pyromancer Stormshadow.
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk   <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk    <-- Electronic Metal!
http://www.revival.stormshadow.com  <-- The Gothic Revival.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:30:10 +0100, Pete Fenelon wrote:


> therunawayminetrain@lycos.co.uk wrote:

>> Of course a very nice idea with some drawbacks...exactly how were they
>> going to 'split' the train? The other portion would've been facing the
>> wrong direction to start with, and one portion would've been made up of
>> one standard class coach, a buffet and two and a half first class!

> Although not *quite* HSTs, the original plan for the XPTs (HST-clone
> power cars, Budd coaches) in Australia was that they'd run with two
> power cars into/out of Sydney and split/join to serve less popular
> destinations, sticking a DVT on the 'other end'.


 The 'Central West' to Dubbo has run from Sydney with one power car and a
reduced formation. They used their depot Shunter to drag the half set into
Sydney Terminal station, it did the usual run to Dubbo where another
shunter dragged the set around a nearby triangle, turning the entire set
around so the power car faced Sydney and then it ran back, to be meet at
Sydney by the XPT depot shunter again to be dragged back to the depot. Use
was made of a triangle near the XPT depot to turn the half set back again
ready for the next trip.

 It comes down to 'power to weight' in the end. The sets are also not
designed to be split 'in the field'.

Matthew Geier wrote:

>  The 'Central West' to Dubbo has run from Sydney with one power car and a
> reduced formation. They used their depot Shunter to drag the half set into
> Sydney Terminal station, it did the usual run to Dubbo where another
> shunter dragged the set around a nearby triangle, turning the entire set
> around so the power car faced Sydney and then it ran back, to be meet at
> Sydney by the XPT depot shunter again to be dragged back to the depot. Use
> was made of a triangle near the XPT depot to turn the half set back again
> ready for the next trip.


GNER have sent out a set from Neville Hill with a single power car on at 
least one occasional. Worked the 0750 Leeds - Aberdeen with the rear 
power car getting fitted at Edinburgh Waverley.

Cheers,
eat

-- 
<><|"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."
....|   -- President Merkin Muffley
ScR|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scot-rail/
Pix|http://photos.eatnet.org.uk/MacCookie <- further adventures

"Ewan"  wrote in message
news:3l168sF10d0kcU1@individual.net...

>
> GNER have sent out a set from Neville Hill with a single power car on at
> least one occasional. Worked the 0750 Leeds - Aberdeen with the rear
> power car getting fitted at Edinburgh Waverley.


It was not uncommon on the ECML in the early days of HST. If turned out from
Bounds Green the set often had a barrier-vehicle BG attached to the rear.

Jack Taylor wrote:

> "Ewan"  wrote in message
> news:3l168sF10d0kcU1@individual.net...
> 
>>GNER have sent out a set from Neville Hill with a single power car on at
>>least one occasional. Worked the 0750 Leeds - Aberdeen with the rear
>>power car getting fitted at Edinburgh Waverley.
> 
> It was not uncommon on the ECML in the early days of HST. If turned out from
> Bounds Green the set often had a barrier-vehicle BG attached to the rear.


I take it that the sets were dragged into Kings Cross?

Cheers,
eat

-- 
<><|"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."
....|   -- President Merkin Muffley
ScR|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scot-rail/
Pix|http://photos.eatnet.org.uk/MacCookie <- further adventures

> The line speed beyond Bristol is 110mph if i am not mistaken.


I may be wrong but I always thought Bristol - Exeter had some 115mph
and even 120mph stretches.

In IC days, during one of the economic downturns, some West Country
services were diverted away from the Westbury route to serve Bristol.
Much was made, at the time, of the faster speeds possible by this route
such that journey times from the West country would hardly be affected.

"Ewan"  wrote in message
news:3l1gedFvnak1U1@individual.net...

> Jack Taylor wrote:
> >
> > It was not uncommon on the ECML in the early days of HST. If turned out
from
> > Bounds Green the set often had a barrier-vehicle BG attached to the
rear.
>
> I take it that the sets were dragged into Kings Cross?


I can only presume the same, Ewan, as I only ever saw them at speed further
north, never actually in the Cross.

Pyromancer wrote:


> Could somethink like an SR EMU half-cab not have been constructed at the
> end of a Mk3 coach, posibly a half-buffet vehicle, allowing a set to
> split where the two inner cabs faced each other?
>
> If the train was reformed as two halves :
>
> PC - TSO - TSO - TSO - FO - RMBTSOC
>
> then there'd be no need for shunting bar the actual split/couple.
>
> Back in the 1960s Swindon Class 126 DMUs were built this way, full cab
> at one end, half cab at the other, so a 6 car train could run with full
> through gangway, but the two 3-car halves could split and run
> independently.


Something similar was looked at for the North of London Eurostar
services, but designing an acceptable cab and front end was the
stumbling block.

The plan was to have regional half-sets joining/splitting at (I think)
Rugby and Peterborough.  There was also a plan involving
splitting/joining Nightstar sleeper services, though this was purely a
loco(s) and hauled stock exercise.

On 30 Jul 2005 07:20:15 -0700 someone who may be "allan tracy"
 wrote this:-


>I may be wrong but I always thought Bristol - Exeter had some 115mph
>and even 120mph stretches.


My guess is not. The line to Bridgewater is presumably similar to
that on the other side of the Severn, where ground conditions
prevent high speed running despite ideal alignment most of the way.
I imagine it would cost too much money to raise the line speed.


>In IC days, during one of the economic downturns, some West Country
>services were diverted away from the Westbury route to serve Bristol.
>Much was made, at the time, of the faster speeds possible by this route
>such that journey times from the West country would hardly be affected.


I think the faster speeds were from Reading to Bath. Presumably
going from Chippenham to Westbury would not save any/much time and
also mean not serving Bristol.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Chippy wrote:

> Pyromancer wrote:
> 
> 
>>Could somethink like an SR EMU half-cab not have been constructed at the
>>end of a Mk3 coach, posibly a half-buffet vehicle, allowing a set to
>>split where the two inner cabs faced each other?
snip

>>Back in the 1960s Swindon Class 126 DMUs were built this way, full cab
>>at one end, half cab at the other, so a 6 car train could run with full
>>through gangway, but the two 3-car halves could split and run
>>independently.
> 
> 
> Something similar was looked at for the North of London Eurostar
> services, but designing an acceptable cab and front end was the
> stumbling block.
> 
> The plan was to have regional half-sets joining/splitting at (I think)
> Rugby and Peterborough.  There was also a plan involving
> splitting/joining Nightstar sleeper services, though this was purely a
> loco(s) and hauled stock exercise.
> 


In the old days this would be allowed. HSE now says that a leading car 
is to go above 110mph that the front third has to be un-occupied by 
passengers to allow suitable crumple zones and ballast to be added. 
Hence the design of the Pendolinos and the Voyagers.

Dave

"David Steele"  wrote in message
news:dci6tf$b63$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk...

>
> In the old days this would be allowed. HSE now says that a leading car
> is to go above 110mph that the front third has to be un-occupied by
> passengers to allow suitable crumple zones and ballast to be added.
> Hence the design of the Pendolinos and the Voyagers.


Not any longer ITYF. Hence the design of the Alstom Coradia sets (the FGW
'Adelante').

David Hansen wrote:

>
> My guess is not. The line to Bridgewater is presumably .....>
>
> --
>  David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
>  I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
>  prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.


Repeat after me.  Bridgwater... that's Bridgwater.

On 31 Jul 2005 09:40:35 -0700, crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


>Repeat after me.  Bridgwater... that's Bridgwater.


Birmingham New Street all over again...  Fortunately, that was turned
off when I was recently delayed for an hour there, with manual
announcements in its place.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

> David Hansen wrote:
> > My guess is not. The line to Bridgewater is presumably .....>


So Crazy Horse (bda ding ding ding ding neigh?) wrote:

> Repeat after me.  Bridgwater... that's Bridgwater.


Hmm, Trouble Over Bridgwater methinks?

Could an HST be extended using the outer two coaches of a 442 Wessex
electric in the mddle, which could then be split and driven using the
Wessie cabs? First stumbling block is re-jigging the 442 electrics to
suit the HST 3-phase ac...

Andy Elms
With Goth on his side

hebog_basher at yahoo dot cot dot uk

abe22@cam.ac.uk wrote:

>> David Hansen wrote:
>> > My guess is not. The line to Bridgewater is presumably .....>
> 
> So Crazy Horse (bda ding ding ding ding neigh?) wrote:
>> Repeat after me.  Bridgwater... that's Bridgwater.
> 
> Hmm, Trouble Over Bridgwater methinks?


The Trevor Crozier album, or the HMHB one, though? ;)

pete
-- 
pete@fenelon.com "There's no room for enigmas in built-up areas"

abe22@cam.ac.uk wrote:

> > David Hansen wrote:
> > > My guess is not. The line to Bridgewater is presumably .....>
>
> So Crazy Horse (bda ding ding ding ding neigh?) wrote:
> > Repeat after me.  Bridgwater... that's Bridgwater.
>
> Hmm, Trouble Over Bridgwater methinks?
> 

Buy this chap a flagon of rough cider.

On 31 Jul 2005 14:05:18 -0700, abe22@cam.ac.uk wrote:


> Crazy Horse (bda ding ding ding ding neigh?)


AAAAAAaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632867.html
(33 101 at Weymouth Town, 3 May 1985)

Chris Tolley let out the following blood curdling scream:


> AAAAAAaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggggg­ghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!


Have I touched a nerve?

AE