Decided I should start a new thread as the last one was about SAABs and 
became a BMW discussion.

Although I haven't ruled out the SAAB, I've now had my interest swayed 
firmly in favour of the 5 series. It's something I hadn't considered as 
I've always thought of them as out of my league. I'm now looking for advice  
regarding what to look out for when buying one, as I've no experience of 
BMWs whatsoever.

What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable. I'm 
still a bit apprehensive, though: I've always had a manual and I'm not sure 
I could grow to love an auto. I've also been advised to avoid the V8s 
because of the Nikasil issue (this is a real pity, it's just the model I 
fancied). Is that still likely to be a problem even on an engine that's 
already done high miles?

Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car inspection 
stuff apply?

BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 'good' 
at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the right condition?

Sorry if I'm wearing everyone's patience thin, here ;-)
-- 
Stuart Sharp

> What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable. I'm
> still a bit apprehensive, though: I've always had a manual and I'm not 
> sure
> I could grow to love an auto.


You could in a big car with lots of power.


> I've also been advised to avoid the V8s
> because of the Nikasil issue (this is a real pity, it's just the model I
> fancied). Is that still likely to be a problem even on an engine that's
> already done high miles?


Mileage isn't really the problem if it's been well serviced, it's purely a 
case of whether or not it's been affected, and if it's had a replacement 
engine under warranty or not.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

"Stu"  wrote in message 
news:Xns96A2ADC9FAFB4nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

>
> Decided I should start a new thread as the last one was about SAABs and
> became a BMW discussion.
>
> Although I haven't ruled out the SAAB, I've now had my interest swayed
> firmly in favour of the 5 series. It's something I hadn't considered as
> I've always thought of them as out of my league. I'm now looking for 
> advice
> regarding what to look out for when buying one, as I've no experience of
> BMWs whatsoever.
>
> What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable. I'm
> still a bit apprehensive, though: I've always had a manual and I'm not 
> sure
> I could grow to love an auto. I've also been advised to avoid the V8s
> because of the Nikasil issue (this is a real pity, it's just the model I
> fancied). Is that still likely to be a problem even on an engine that's
> already done high miles?
>
> Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car 
> inspection
> stuff apply?
>
> BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 'good'
> at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the right condition?
>
> Sorry if I'm wearing everyone's patience thin, here ;-)
> -- 

All you need is on here: http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/bmw.html

JB

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A2ADC9FAFB4nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

>
> Decided I should start a new thread as the last one was about SAABs and
> became a BMW discussion.
>
> Although I haven't ruled out the SAAB, I've now had my interest swayed
> firmly in favour of the 5 series. It's something I hadn't considered as
> I've always thought of them as out of my league. I'm now looking for
advice
> regarding what to look out for when buying one, as I've no experience of
> BMWs whatsoever.
>
> What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable. I'm
> still a bit apprehensive, though: I've always had a manual and I'm not
sure
> I could grow to love an auto.


I'm sure you would. Especially in traffic. Speak to anyone who has driven
both for any length of time, and most will say they prefer them, and IMO the
BM 5 speed auto box is particularly good, with lock up in top gear. I get
about 34mpg on the m/way at 70 plus mph, at 2000-2500 rpm.

 I've also been advised to avoid the V8s

> because of the Nikasil issue (this is a real pity, it's just the model I
> fancied). Is that still likely to be a problem even on an engine that's
> already done high miles?
>
> Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car
inspection
> stuff apply?


They're mechanically quite basic. Nothing quirky, like some of the french
stuff.
Not difficult to service yourself, if you're that way inclined.

>
> BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 'good'
> at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the right condition?


It all depends on the level of trim, extras etc.
It has cloth seats which detract from it's s/h value.
I actually prefer cloth, but most people seem to go for leather.
Has it got a/c or climate control, a computer, cruise, electric seats?
If it just has the basic spec, I think the price may be a little high.
There's actually quite a few extras, apart from those mentioned above, that
can enhance a BM's value. CD changer. Heated mirrors, and heated w/screen
washers. Lot's of little things like that.

>
> Sorry if I'm wearing everyone's patience thin, here ;-)


Not at all. Only too pleased to help if I can.
Mike.

"Stu"  wrote in message 
news:Xns96A2ADC9FAFB4nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

>
> Decided I should start a new thread as the last one was about SAABs and
> became a BMW discussion.
>
> Although I haven't ruled out the SAAB, I've now had my interest swayed
> firmly in favour of the 5 series. It's something I hadn't considered as
> I've always thought of them as out of my league. I'm now looking for 
> advice
> regarding what to look out for when buying one, as I've no experience of
> BMWs whatsoever.
>
> What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable. I'm
> still a bit apprehensive, though: I've always had a manual and I'm not 
> sure
> I could grow to love an auto. I've also been advised to avoid the V8s
> because of the Nikasil issue (this is a real pity, it's just the model I
> fancied). Is that still likely to be a problem even on an engine that's
> already done high miles?
>
> Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car 
> inspection
> stuff apply?
>
> BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 'good'
> at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the right condition?
>
> Sorry if I'm wearing everyone's patience thin, here ;-)



I've owned BMW's in the past,  E30 320 and 325's  but not now -  too many 
chavs drive the things and they're getting a bit crusty....
The 5 series on the other hand is a better propostion -  likely to be in 
much better nick and  a nice understated image. Don't be put off by Autos 
either, in city traffic you'll wonder how you ever coped!

I'd still personally go for a Saab 9000 though - or even a classic 900 
turbo. Can do a million miles and still look good and go like stink.

Stu wrote:

> Decided I should start a new thread as the last one was about SAABs 
> and became a BMW discussion.
> 
> Although I haven't ruled out the SAAB, I've now had my interest 
> swayed firmly in favour of the 5 series.


Saabs might offer more versatile load spaces, but a 5er is going to be
better to drive.  Don't consider the gutless 518 (or the 520 really...)
and unless fuel consumption and insurance are an issue get the biggest
motor you can[1][2].


> It's something I hadn't considered as I've always thought of them as
> out of my league. I'm now looking for advice regarding what to look
> out for when buying one, as I've no experience of BMWs whatsoever.


There have apparently been some quality issues with 3ers but I'd rate
the quality of the E38 and E39 I've owned equal or better than the Mercs
I had before.


> What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable.


The adaptive autos are fairly wondrous - not sure how far back into E34
they go, E38 7ers had them from '94 - they have an almost prescient
ability to be in the right gear.


> I'm still a bit apprehensive, though: I've always had a manual and 
> I'm not sure I could grow to love an auto. I've also been advised to
>  avoid the V8s because of the Nikasil issue (this is a real pity,
> it's just the model I fancied). Is that still likely to be a problem
> even on an engine that's already done high miles?


The " Nikasil Issue" only affects M60 V8s (and M52(?) sixes) run on high
sulphur petrol which is no longer in the food chain.  Any smooth
running, steady idling M60 has either never suffered or been fixed - its
health can be confirmed with a compression check if you're worried.

I ran an E38 740i with its original M60 from 110-140k and it never
missed a beat - it's a fabulous motor.


> Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car 
> inspection stuff apply?


Dead pixels in the dot matrix dashboard bitties can be a problem but
most things are fairly bulletproof if maintained.


> BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 
> 'good' at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the 
> right condition?


Not outrageous but this:

http://tinyurl.com/ad8dm

looks better value...


> Sorry if I'm wearing everyone's patience thin, here ;-)


....not mine :)




A
[1] Disclaimer: I drive a 4.6l E39 ALPINA B10 V8 because I can't have an
automatic 5.0l ///M5
[2] The V8 530i will outdrag an I6 535i, allegedly...

Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:ik9rr2-r5e.ln1
@florin.fluffy:

> 
> Saabs might offer more versatile load spaces, but a 5er is going to be
> better to drive.  Don't consider the gutless 518 (or the 520 really...)
> and unless fuel consumption and insurance are an issue get the biggest
> motor you can[1][2].


That was the plan, but the bigger ones seem to be rarer and a bit pricey. I 
also have to consider that on weekend trips, the fuel cost would really hit 
me in the wallet, as would the insurance cost (at 26, I'm a young man to be 
buying a 5 series - but that's the kind of car I want (maybe  I'm a bit 
strange)). Hence the main contender at the moment is the happy medium - a 
525 24v.

> 
>> What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable.
> 
> The adaptive autos are fairly wondrous - not sure how far back into E34
> they go, E38 7ers had them from '94 - they have an almost prescient
> ability to be in the right gear.


I haven't ruled them out altogether - I just prefer a manual because of the 
superior control and efficiency, and it's what I'm used. Driving an auto 
just doesn't feel right. I remember when I first ever drove one - each time 
I approached a junction, I'd panic, frantically stabbing in the dark with 
my left foot, trying to find the non-existant clutch pedal :-)

> 
> The " Nikasil Issue" only affects M60 V8s (and M52(?) sixes) run on high
> sulphur petrol which is no longer in the food chain.  Any smooth
> running, steady idling M60 has either never suffered or been fixed - its
> health can be confirmed with a compression check if you're worried.
> 
> I ran an E38 740i with its original M60 from 110-140k and it never
> missed a beat - it's a fabulous motor.


The type of example in my price range would already have done that kind of 
mileage. Good to hear something positive about it, though :-) If one comes 
up within reasonable distance (before I find a 525), I'll be sure to take  
a look. High maintenance though - a lot more components to fail in a V8 and 
a lot more plugs to buy at service time etc

> 
>> Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car 
>> inspection stuff apply?
> 
> Dead pixels in the dot matrix dashboard bitties can be a problem but
> most things are fairly bulletproof if maintained.


Don't worry, I'll be taking a close look at the clocks ;-)

> 
>> BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 
>> 'good' at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the 
>> right condition?
> 
> Not outrageous but this:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/ad8dm
> 
> looks better value...


Well the touring shape isn't really to my liking. Also I don't intend 
buying from a dealer as you don't get to see the previous owner and you're 
paying for the dealers profit as well as the car. That particular one is a 
bloody long way from Barnsley!

> 
>> Sorry if I'm wearing everyone's patience thin, here ;-)
> 
> ...not mine :)
> 

Everyone's been fantastic! Many thanks to you all - I've learnt a lot from 
you.


-- 
Stuart Sharp

In article <ik9rr2-r5e.ln1@florin.fluffy>,
   Alistair J Murray  wrote:

> > What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable.

> The adaptive autos are fairly wondrous - not sure how far back into E34
> they go, E38 7ers had them from '94 - they have an almost prescient
> ability to be in the right gear.


The 5-speed learning auto came in with the 24 valve engines - about '91?
But the V-8s carried on with a four speed for a couple of years longer.

Early 24 valve autos were a bit sluggish until you got the revs up then
flew. Later ones had VANOS and should be better.

-- 
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

>> Saabs might offer more versatile load spaces, but a 5er is going to be
>> better to drive.  Don't consider the gutless 518 (or the 520 really...)
>> and unless fuel consumption and insurance are an issue get the biggest
>> motor you can[1][2].
>
> That was the plan, but the bigger ones seem to be rarer and a bit pricey. 
> I
> also have to consider that on weekend trips, the fuel cost would really 
> hit
> me in the wallet, as would the insurance cost (at 26, I'm a young man to 
> be
> buying a 5 series - but that's the kind of car I want (maybe  I'm a bit
> strange)). Hence the main contender at the moment is the happy medium - a
> 525 24v.


Too young for a 5-series? Pah, no way.  Plenty of the guys on here had owned 
similar sized cars or bigger, much younger than that.  Just because the 
average person your age might have a Focus or something, doesn't mean you 
have to.  Fuel costs - well yes, on weekend trips away it would hit you in 
the pocket a bit, but remember that bigger engines are much more economical 
on a long run, compared to around town, and take a step back and look at 
exactly how many miles you'll be doing per year, and how much extra it'll 
cost you.  Not a great deal, compared to the comfort/power/driveability you 
get from a nice V8, I'll bet.  And phone around for insurance quotes. 
You'll probably be pleasantly surprised.  If you're not, then phone around 
some more.  If you've got a full NCB you shouldn't be paying too much.


>> The adaptive autos are fairly wondrous - not sure how far back into E34
>> they go, E38 7ers had them from '94 - they have an almost prescient
>> ability to be in the right gear.
>
> I haven't ruled them out altogether - I just prefer a manual because of 
> the
> superior control and efficiency, and it's what I'm used. Driving an auto
> just doesn't feel right. I remember when I first ever drove one - each 
> time
> I approached a junction, I'd panic, frantically stabbing in the dark with
> my left foot, trying to find the non-existant clutch pedal :-)


Heh, you get used to that!


>> I ran an E38 740i with its original M60 from 110-140k and it never
>> missed a beat - it's a fabulous motor.
>
> The type of example in my price range would already have done that kind of
> mileage. Good to hear something positive about it, though :-) If one comes
> up within reasonable distance (before I find a 525), I'll be sure to take
> a look. High maintenance though - a lot more components to fail in a V8 
> and
> a lot more plugs to buy at service time etc


A lot more components to fail?  Well yes, more valves and stuff, but failure 
of any major engine internals all happens at once anyway, and whatever 
engine it is, you're going to be lumbered with a big bill to pay.  If you're 
picking something that's known to be very reliable, then as long as it's 
been well maintained, and you carry out the usual regular checks (oil, 
coolant etc.), then major failure is pretty unlikely.  Ok, more plugs etc, 
come service time, true.  Basically running costs are higher all around, but 
not *that* much higher if you're not doing all that many miles.  And it's a 
V8.  And they do rock :-D

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

"AstraVanMan"  wrote in
news:riIGe.17125$bT4.4678@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net: 


> Too young for a 5-series? Pah, no way.  Plenty of the guys on here had
> owned similar sized cars or bigger, much younger than that.  Just
> because the average person your age might have a Focus or something,
> doesn't mean you have to.  Fuel costs - well yes, on weekend trips
> away it would hit you in the pocket a bit, but remember that bigger
> engines are much more economical on a long run, compared to around
> town, and take a step back and look at exactly how many miles you'll
> be doing per year, and how much extra it'll cost you.  Not a great
> deal, compared to the comfort/power/driveability you get from a nice
> V8, I'll bet.  And phone around for insurance quotes. You'll probably
> be pleasantly surprised.  If you're not, then phone around some more. 
> If you've got a full NCB you shouldn't be paying too much. 
> 

Cheers mate - I know you like your big cars, too :-) Insurance shouldn't 
be much different as the Primera is in group 14. Elephant have quoted me 
just under 500 for an E34 525 24v Auto with protected NCB. That's about 
the same as last year's premium for the primera. The IAM membership and 
having SWMBO (who is a little oler that me) on the policy seems to help 
the price.

> 
>>> I ran an E38 740i with its original M60 from 110-140k and it never
>>> missed a beat - it's a fabulous motor.
>>
>> The type of example in my price range would already have done that
>> kind of mileage. Good to hear something positive about it, though :-)
>> If one comes up within reasonable distance (before I find a 525),
>> I'll be sure to take a look. High maintenance though - a lot more
>> components to fail in a V8 and
>> a lot more plugs to buy at service time etc
> 
> A lot more components to fail?  Well yes, more valves and stuff, but
> failure of any major engine internals all happens at once anyway, and
> whatever engine it is, you're going to be lumbered with a big bill to
> pay.  If you're picking something that's known to be very reliable,
> then as long as it's been well maintained, and you carry out the usual
> regular checks (oil, coolant etc.), then major failure is pretty
> unlikely.  Ok, more plugs etc, come service time, true.  Basically
> running costs are higher all around, but not *that* much higher if
> you're not doing all that many miles.  And it's a V8.  And they do
> rock :-D 
> 

This is true. Just a case of finding one at the right price, right 
condition and not too far to travel to look at it. They seem to be 
relatively rare compared to the lesser models.


-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4d92833f10dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <ik9rr2-r5e.ln1@florin.fluffy>,
>    Alistair J Murray  wrote:
> > > What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable.
>
> > The adaptive autos are fairly wondrous - not sure how far back into E34
> > they go, E38 7ers had them from '94 - they have an almost prescient
> > ability to be in the right gear.
>
> The 5-speed learning auto came in with the 24 valve engines - about '91?


I didn't know that.
So my '94 525 5 sp auto should have a 'learning box'.
I thaught 'learning' ECU's were only used for engines.
Any particular website that explains in more detail?
I've never noticed anything about them in the usual BM sites.
Mike.

Stu wrote:


>>Too young for a 5-series? Pah, no way.  Plenty of the guys on here had
>>owned similar sized cars or bigger, much younger than that.  Just
>>because the average person your age might have a Focus or something,
>>doesn't mean you have to.  Fuel costs - well yes, on weekend trips
>>away it would hit you in the pocket a bit, but remember that bigger
>>engines are much more economical on a long run, compared to around
>>town, and take a step back and look at exactly how many miles you'll
>>be doing per year, and how much extra it'll cost you.  Not a great
>>deal, compared to the comfort/power/driveability you get from a nice
>>V8, I'll bet.  And phone around for insurance quotes. You'll probably
>>be pleasantly surprised.  If you're not, then phone around some more. 
>>If you've got a full NCB you shouldn't be paying too much. 
>>
> 
> Cheers mate - I know you like your big cars, too :-) Insurance shouldn't 
> be much different as the Primera is in group 14. Elephant have quoted me 
> just under 500 for an E34 525 24v Auto with protected NCB. That's about 
> the same as last year's premium for the primera. The IAM membership and 
> having SWMBO (who is a little oler that me) on the policy seems to help 
> the price.
> 
>>>>I ran an E38 740i with its original M60 from 110-140k and it never
>>>>missed a beat - it's a fabulous motor.
>>>
>>>The type of example in my price range would already have done that
>>>kind of mileage. Good to hear something positive about it, though :-)
>>>If one comes up within reasonable distance (before I find a 525),
>>>I'll be sure to take a look. High maintenance though - a lot more
>>>components to fail in a V8 and
>>>a lot more plugs to buy at service time etc
>>
>>A lot more components to fail?  Well yes, more valves and stuff, but
>>failure of any major engine internals all happens at once anyway, and
>>whatever engine it is, you're going to be lumbered with a big bill to
>>pay.  If you're picking something that's known to be very reliable,
>>then as long as it's been well maintained, and you carry out the usual
>>regular checks (oil, coolant etc.), then major failure is pretty
>>unlikely.  Ok, more plugs etc, come service time, true.  Basically
>>running costs are higher all around, but not *that* much higher if
>>you're not doing all that many miles.  And it's a V8.  And they do
>>rock :-D 
>>
> 
> This is true. Just a case of finding one at the right price, right 
> condition and not too far to travel to look at it. They seem to be 
> relatively rare compared to the lesser models.
> 
> 


Just to throw another option at you - (now, a lot of people are going to 
grimace at this), ever considered a Vauxhall Omega Elite - nice big car, 
very refined ride, the V6's have plenty and plenty of power, aimed at 
the same class as the beamer, but without the reputation, can be found 
feature packed at the same sort of priced you've intimated, and 
servicing costs should be somewhat lower (although my recent experience 
might cause some to refute this).

Sorry, I know this is going OT - you asked about BMW, but I'm still in 
the honeymoon period with my Elite and would enthusiastically point 
others in the same direction.

(Petrol-guzzling aside, that is)

Mike

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A36D59CA7CBnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:ik9rr2-r5e.ln1
> @florin.fluffy:
> >
> > Saabs might offer more versatile load spaces, but a 5er is going to be
> > better to drive.  Don't consider the gutless 518 (or the 520 really...)
> > and unless fuel consumption and insurance are an issue get the biggest
> > motor you can[1][2].
>
> That was the plan, but the bigger ones seem to be rarer and a bit pricey.
I
> also have to consider that on weekend trips, the fuel cost would really
hit
> me in the wallet, as would the insurance cost (at 26, I'm a young man to
be
> buying a 5 series - but that's the kind of car I want (maybe  I'm a bit
> strange)). Hence the main contender at the moment is the happy medium - a
> 525 24v.
> >
> >> What I've learned so far is that the autos are relatively reliable.
> >
> > The adaptive autos are fairly wondrous - not sure how far back into E34
> > they go, E38 7ers had them from '94 - they have an almost prescient
> > ability to be in the right gear.
>
> I haven't ruled them out altogether - I just prefer a manual because of
the
> superior control and efficiency, and it's what I'm used. Driving an auto
> just doesn't feel right. I remember when I first ever drove one - each
time
> I approached a junction, I'd panic, frantically stabbing in the dark with
> my left foot, trying to find the non-existant clutch pedal :-)


One aspect of an auto that's seldom if ever mentioned, is that unlike a
manual, you can't really abuse the gearbox, or the engine come to that.
Frinstance you can't overrev the engine, crash the box, abuse the clutch,
synchros, gears or drive train.
IOW, in theory an auto could be a better s/h buy than a manual.
Mike.

In article <42eb56db$0$1229$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
   Mike G  wrote:

> > The 5-speed learning auto came in with the 24 valve engines - about
> > '91?

> I didn't know that. So my '94 525 5 sp auto should have a 'learning
> box'.


Think so - my '92 525 certainly seemed to learn your driving style in
sports mode, at least to some extent. But later boxes did more - the one
on my E39 seems to measure incline and change down to give engine braking
as well as upping the shift points if you press on for a while.


> I thaught 'learning' ECU's were only used for engines. Any
> particular website that explains in more detail? I've never noticed
> anything about them in the usual BM sites.


No idea, I'm afraid.

-- 
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

> Just to throw another option at you - (now, a lot of people are going to 
> grimace at this), ever considered a Vauxhall Omega Elite - nice big car, 
> very refined ride, the V6's have plenty and plenty of power, aimed at the 
> same class as the beamer, but without the reputation, can be found feature 
> packed at the same sort of priced you've intimated, and servicing costs 
> should be somewhat lower (although my recent experience might cause some 
> to refute this).
>
> Sorry, I know this is going OT - you asked about BMW, but I'm still in the 
> honeymoon period with my Elite and would enthusiastically point others in 
> the same direction.
>
> (Petrol-guzzling aside, that is)


The Omegas are a nice drive, and the Elites do have a lovely spec, but the 
interior in places does feel cheap (I've been in more than one Omega where 
the inside door handle plastics at the front have kept falling out, and in 
my Elite I had the cover to the centre console storage type bit easily fell 
off).  But the V6s aren't *that* powerful compared to the competition, and 
there isn't an option for a V8 like with the BMWs.  And it's recommended to 
change the cambelt and tensioners once a year, as Vauxhall won't warrant the 
parts for more than that.  With the BMW straight 6 engines there's a timing 
chain - I'm guessing the V8s have one too.

Which is why they're cheap.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

I don't know if this link will work or not:

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/cars_search.asp?page=1&modelexact=1
&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=&keywords=525
&min_pr=1000&max_pr=4000&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=1500
&max_records=50&source=1&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH

I'm referring to the red one at the bottom of the page. This sounded 
perfect until I rang the guy and found out that the A/C doesn't work and 
it has no cruise control (not essential to me but would ne nice).

Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the BMW 
dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back to the 
same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so I guess 
it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell me when 
R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it didn't can you 
convert one for a realistic price?

It's a real shame, because in all other respects it sounds like a really 
well cared for example (i.e. dealer servicing, and look at the photos - 
this guy doesn't live in a council estate!) Had the A/C been working I 
was about ready to forsake cruise control and set off on the 160 mile 
journey to go and see it!

Nothing else worth looking at so far - the N reg manual for 2850 had no 
A/C, cruise etc and the guy admitted it had "a few scratches." There was 
a much cheaper M reg at 1500, just one service missing from it's 
history, but no A/C (despite having cruise). I even phoned for a look at 
a 525tds because it was only 13 miles away and would have gotten me 
acquainted with the E34, but it's already been sold :-(

A bit disappointing, I was hoping to at least find one worth looking at, 
but patience, as they say, is a virtue.
-- 
Stuart Sharp

Mike Dodd <no-address@lo0> wrote in
news:42eb5f41$0$13699$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com: 


> 
> Just to throw another option at you - (now, a lot of people are going
> to grimace at this), ever considered a Vauxhall Omega Elite - nice big
> car, very refined ride, the V6's have plenty and plenty of power,
> aimed at the same class as the beamer, but without the reputation, can
> be found feature packed at the same sort of priced you've intimated,
> and servicing costs should be somewhat lower (although my recent
> experience might cause some to refute this).
> 
> Sorry, I know this is going OT - you asked about BMW, but I'm still in
> the honeymoon period with my Elite and would enthusiastically point 
> others in the same direction.
> 
> (Petrol-guzzling aside, that is)
> 
> Mike
> 
> 

Good suggestion mike. I drove my ex-boss's 2.5 Omega a few times. 
Beautifully smooth and quiet. However as Peter has pointed out, they do 
have a few maintenance issues and don't quite carry the same reputation 
for high quality and longetivity as the Beemer.

Might be just a tad too heavy and guzzly (100kg more than the 530 V8 and 
less mpg - according to Dervy datasheet ;-) than I can cope with. But a 
good alternative if I don't take to the five series (when I find one that 
suits my requirements).

-- 
Stuart Sharp

In article <ePJGe.15486$Oe4.15060@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
   AstraVanMan  wrote:

>  With the BMW straight 6 engines there's a timing 
> chain - I'm guessing the V8s have one too.


Yup. BMW soon learnt the follies of a cam belt.

-- 
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the BMW
> dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back to
> the same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so I
> guess it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell me
> when R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it didn't
> can you convert one for a realistic price?


That's rubbish. Had my much older car re-gassed recently.

It's also likely the dealer doesn't work on AC but gets a specialist in.

Sounds like an excuse for the AC being faulty and needing fixing at high
cost, rather than just topping up.

-- 
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Stu  wrote in
news:Xns96A384EAB228Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144: 


> Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the
> BMW dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back
> to the same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so
> I guess it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell
> me when R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it
> didn't can you convert one for a realistic price?


Sorry, I meant so say R12. What I really know is: would I be able to get 
one with R134 gas if I bought newer (that one was a 94 L)?


-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in 
news:4d92918e53dave@davenoise.co.uk:


> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
>> Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the BMW
>> dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back to
>> the same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so I
>> guess it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell me
>> when R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it didn't
>> can you convert one for a realistic price?
> 
> That's rubbish. Had my much older car re-gassed recently.
> 
> It's also likely the dealer doesn't work on AC but gets a specialist in.
> 
> Sounds like an excuse for the AC being faulty and needing fixing at high
> cost, rather than just topping up.
> 


So does that mean that R12 is still legal? Or is is the case that R134 
equipped cars bo back further than 1994?

-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A384EAB228Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> I don't know if this link will work or not:
>
> http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/cars_search.asp?page=1&modelexact=1
> &lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=&keywords=525
> &min_pr=1000&max_pr=4000&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=1500
> &max_records=50&source=1&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH
>
> I'm referring to the red one at the bottom of the page. This sounded
> perfect until I rang the guy and found out that the A/C doesn't work and
> it has no cruise control (not essential to me but would ne nice).
>
> Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the BMW
> dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back to the
> same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so I guess
> it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell me when
> R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it didn't can you
> convert one for a realistic price?


AFAIK R134a systems came in around '92-93.  The earlier R12 systems can be
regassed. It's use is not illegal, only it's manufacture. Reclaimed R12 can
still be used, that's if you can find it. There are also alternative gasses
that can be used without modifcations and are a direct replacement for R12.
'Sleeker GT Phwoar' (you'll find him mainly in the 'uk.rec.driving' n/g) has
recently regassed his Celica fitted with an R12 system. AFAIK it's still
working. :-)

Personally though, I would go for a later car with a R134a a/c system.
I also think that later cars, '93 onwards I believe, with the wider radiator
grilles, look nicer, and not so dated. Also they have airbags, at least for
the driver.
Those two or three years younger have passenger airbags as well.
Also of course it'll have the VANOS engine, as that came in at about the
same time.
Mike.

> Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the BMW
> dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back to the
> same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so I guess
> it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell me when
> R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it didn't can you
> convert one for a realistic price?


Paging Sleeker Carl!

He's the guy you want to ask about doing this - he did to his Celica GT4 
recently.  He hangs around in uk.rec.cars.modifications, and you should find 
posts-a-plenty on the matter on google.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> > That's rubbish. Had my much older car re-gassed recently.
> > 
> > It's also likely the dealer doesn't work on AC but gets a specialist
> > in.
> > 
> > Sounds like an excuse for the AC being faulty and needing fixing at
> > high cost, rather than just topping up.
> > 

> So does that mean that R12 is still legal? 


Yes. Think they used re-claimed stuff. It might well be no longer made,
though.


> Or is is the case that R134 
> equipped cars bo back further than 1994?


Dunno. My SD1 is 84. But IIRC, there is a substitute for R12 anyway,
although it may not work quite as well.

-- 
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42eb7a95$0$39649$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A384EAB228Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> I don't know if this link will work or not:
>>
>> http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/cars_search.asp?page=1&modelexact
>> =1 
>> &lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=&keywords=5
>> 25 
>> &min_pr=1000&max_pr=4000&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=150
>> 0 &max_records=50&source=1&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH
>>
>> I'm referring to the red one at the bottom of the page. This sounded
>> perfect until I rang the guy and found out that the A/C doesn't work
>> and it has no cruise control (not essential to me but would ne nice).
>>
>> Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the
>> BMW dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone
>> back to the same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now
>> illegal (so I guess it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500.
>> Can anyone tell me when R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on
>> these and if it didn't can you convert one for a realistic price?
> 
> AFAIK R134a systems came in around '92-93.  The earlier R12 systems
> can be regassed. It's use is not illegal, only it's manufacture.
> Reclaimed R12 can still be used, that's if you can find it. There are
> also alternative gasses that can be used without modifcations and are
> a direct replacement for R12. 'Sleeker GT Phwoar' (you'll find him
> mainly in the 'uk.rec.driving' n/g) has recently regassed his Celica
> fitted with an R12 system. AFAIK it's still working. :-)
> 
> Personally though, I would go for a later car with a R134a a/c system.
> I also think that later cars, '93 onwards I believe, with the wider
> radiator grilles, look nicer, and not so dated. Also they have
> airbags, at least for the driver.

> Those two or three years younger have passenger airbags as well.
> Also of course it'll have the VANOS engine, as that came in at about
> the same time.


This was a 94 car (albeit an early 94 L reg), but I can't tell which 
grille it is (it's the burgundy one in autotrader with 80k miles). The 
worry with the aircon is that it may need expensive work, like Dave said. 
The owner said that his dealer told him it was to do with the gas, but 
they quoted him an astronomical price (1500) to sort it!




-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A38A087D81Enobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> Stu  wrote in
> news:Xns96A384EAB228Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144:
>
> > Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the
> > BMW dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back
> > to the same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so
> > I guess it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell
> > me when R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it
> > didn't can you convert one for a realistic price?
>
> Sorry, I meant so say R12. What I really know is: would I be able to get
> one with R134 gas if I bought newer (that one was a 94 L)?


A '94 'L' would certainly have a R134a system.

Had a look at cars available in your area on Autotrader. Have you dismissed
all these?

Theres what sounds like a nice '97 5 series E39, 125 miles from you. A
523iSE  (actually still a 2.5 engine) Manual, climate control. 150k, m/way
miles according to the owner. If I was in the market for a manual, I'd go
for this one, despite it not having cruise. :-)
2950

Another. Dealer though. E39 528i SE auto. Climate and leather. 32 miles
away.
2995.

Or, if you don't mind travelling. How about the '95 auto 525i at 2100 ono.
Private sale. Has cruise, a/c, leather etc. 142 miles away.
Mike.

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A38A763F8CFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in
> news:4d92918e53dave@davenoise.co.uk:
>
> > In article ,
> >    Stu  wrote:
> >> Sounded quite a well-to-do chap (very polite), he explained that the
BMW
> >> dealer where he has it serviced (sounds like he's always gone back to
> >> the same dealer) would not re-gas it as the gas is now illegal (so I
> >> guess it's R32) and conversion would cost him 1500. Can anyone tell me
> >> when R134 (or whatever it is now) came out on these and if it didn't
> >> can you convert one for a realistic price?
> >
> > That's rubbish. Had my much older car re-gassed recently.
> >
> > It's also likely the dealer doesn't work on AC but gets a specialist in.
> >
> > Sounds like an excuse for the AC being faulty and needing fixing at high
> > cost, rather than just topping up.
> >
>
> So does that mean that R12 is still legal?


To use, yes. Only it's manufacture is illegal, but AFAIK old fridges and
freezers used R12, so reclaimed R12 can still be used.
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42eb856f$0$16210$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> A '94 'L' would certainly have a R134a system.


Probably needs expensive repair work then.

> 
> Had a look at cars available in your area on Autotrader. Have you
> dismissed all these?
> 
> Theres what sounds like a nice '97 5 series E39, 125 miles from you. A
> 523iSE  (actually still a 2.5 engine) Manual, climate control. 150k,
> m/way miles according to the owner. If I was in the market for a
> manual, I'd go for this one, despite it not having cruise. :-)
> 2950
> 

Hmmmm....is that the new double Vanos engine, then? The figures suggest 
that it should be  a bit slower than the old 525 (20bhp less power, a bit 
less torque and a bit more weight), yet the performance appears to be 
very similar. Is is worth stretching to an E39, though? They seem to have 
a few reliability issues that the E34s don't (quite a list on 
honestjohn). No mention of SH again...


> Another. Dealer though. E39 528i SE auto. Climate and leather. 32
> miles away.
> 2995.
> 

Was put off of these because of the Nikasil thingy, but coming round to 
them again after one or two encouraging views. No SH again though and 
worryingly cheap for a dealer.


> Or, if you don't mind travelling. How about the '95 auto 525i at 2100
> ono. Private sale. Has cruise, a/c, leather etc. 142 miles away.


Probably worth a call. What put me off that one was it having no mention 
of the service history. I can't see anybody forgetting to mention a FSH 
in their ad, although they may neglect to mention an incomplete SH.

Thanks for the suggestions. Tempted by the early E39s but what about the 
reliability? I thought E34s were the best bulit BMW ever - that's what 
persuaded me to go a bit older in the first place.
-- 

Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:


> This was a 94 car (albeit an early 94 L reg), but I can't tell which 
> grille it is (it's the burgundy one in autotrader with 80k miles). The 
> worry with the aircon is that it may need expensive work, like Dave said. 
> The owner said that his dealer told him it was to do with the gas, but 
> they quoted him an astronomical price (1500) to sort it!
> 


I'm very surprised that he hadn't approached an independent 
air-conditioning specialist for a quote. I'd suggest treading with care.

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A3A0F444CEDnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42eb856f$0$16210$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net:
>
> > A '94 'L' would certainly have a R134a system.
>
> Probably needs expensive repair work then.
> >
> > Had a look at cars available in your area on Autotrader. Have you
> > dismissed all these?
> >
> > Theres what sounds like a nice '97 5 series E39, 125 miles from you. A
> > 523iSE  (actually still a 2.5 engine) Manual, climate control. 150k,
> > m/way miles according to the owner. If I was in the market for a
> > manual, I'd go for this one, despite it not having cruise. :-)
> > 2950
> >
> Hmmmm....is that the new double Vanos engine, then? The figures suggest
> that it should be  a bit slower than the old 525 (20bhp less power, a bit
> less torque and a bit more weight), yet the performance appears to be
> very similar. Is is worth stretching to an E39, though? They seem to have
> a few reliability issues that the E34s don't (quite a list on
> honestjohn). No mention of SH again..


I think the double VANOS was only fitted on the M52TU engine in the 528's.


> > Another. Dealer though. E39 528i SE auto. Climate and leather. 32
> > miles away.
> > 2995.
> >
> Was put off of these because of the Nikasil thingy, but coming round to
> them again after one or two encouraging views. No SH again though and
> worryingly cheap for a dealer.
>
> > Or, if you don't mind travelling. How about the '95 auto 525i at 2100
> > ono. Private sale. Has cruise, a/c, leather etc. 142 miles away.
>
> Probably worth a call. What put me off that one was it having no mention
> of the service history. I can't see anybody forgetting to mention a FSH
> in their ad, although they may neglect to mention an incomplete SH.


Although it's nice to have when you come to sell. I wouldn't rely too much
on a service history. My experience with dealers is such that I don't use
them any more, except for spares etc.
In general their stds are too low for my liking. All the 'Which' surveys
confirm that main dealer, and larger garage servicing leave much to be
desired.
According to Which, small independants tended to miss less and charge less
for a better service.

Unless a car has been serviced well, (and how do you know that? ) what real
value is it. Better IMO to buy on condition. Take someone along who really
knows cars and what to look for, if you're unsure of checking a prospective
purchase yourself.

The recent service, oils, plugs and micro filter change on my car was
carried out by a mobile tune and service type guy I've known for years. The
rest I did myself.
It did have a full SH when I baught it, but in his opinion, and mine, the
plugs and the microfilter had almost certainly not been changed at it's last
dealer service when they should have been. The plugs were quite burnt, and
we reckoned the microfilter had years of dirt in it. Surprised air could
even get throgh it.


> Thanks for the suggestions. Tempted by the early E39s but what about the
> reliability? I thought E34s were the best bulit BMW ever - that's what
> persuaded me to go a bit older in the first place.


I hadn't looked at Honest Johns findings. By the sound of it though, you're
right. A later E34, does look like a better s/h buy than an early E39.

While you're looking, have a look at those in your local dealers and have a
drive. Any E34 will give you a taste of what you might expect in the way of
build quality, handling etc.You never know, it might be put you off buying
one. :-)
Mike.

Stu wrote:

> Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:ik9rr2-r5e.ln1
> @florin.fluffy:


	[...big is best...]


> That was the plan, but the bigger ones seem to be rarer and a bit 
> pricey. I also have to consider that on weekend trips, the fuel cost 
> would really hit me in the wallet,


My fairly hard driven 740i returned ~22mpg overall, ~26mpg on long M-way
journeys on cruise @ 85ish...

....and about 17mpg hooning about the highlands.

You should get a little (~2mpg??) better with the lighter E34.


> as would the insurance cost (at 26, I'm a young man to be buying a 5
> series - but that's the kind of car I want (maybe  I'm a bit
> strange)). Hence the main contender at the moment is the happy medium
> - a 525 24v.


	[...autoboxes...]


> I haven't ruled them out altogether - I just prefer a manual because 
> of the superior control and efficiency, and it's what I'm used. 
> Driving an auto just doesn't feel right. I remember when I first ever
>  drove one - each time I approached a junction, I'd panic,
> frantically stabbing in the dark with my left foot, trying to find
> the non-existant clutch pedal :-)


Been there, done that.  :)

The most embarrassing is when your clutch foot finds the jumbo brake
pedal...

	[...engine life...]


>> I ran an E38 740i with its original M60 from 110-140k and it never
>>  missed a beat - it's a fabulous motor.
> 
> The type of example in my price range would already have done that 
> kind of mileage. Good to hear something positive about it, though :-)


The M60 will run for ever if you look after it, 500k examples are not rare.


> If one comes up within reasonable distance (before I find a 525), 
> I'll be sure to take a look. High maintenance though - a lot more 
> components to fail in a V8 and a lot more plugs to buy at service 
> time etc


Apart from two extra plugs servicing costs are not going to vary much
across the range, optional 17" rims will add more to your costs.

Which reminds me; *AVOID* metric/TRX wheels, the tyres are rare and
scary expensive, often costing more than a set of 16"/17" alloys and tyres.

	[...]


>> Not outrageous but this:
>> 
>> http://tinyurl.com/ad8dm
>> 
>> looks better value...
> 
> Well the touring shape isn't really to my liking. Also I don't intend
> buying from a dealer as you don't get to see the previous owner and 
> you're paying for the dealers profit as well as the car.


Pity you don't like Tourings, that looks a real bargain.

Don't dismiss dealer cars, they're not always more expensive and you
have lots more Sale of Goods Act rights.


> That particular one is a bloody long way from Barnsley!


Heh :)

If it was closer to Edinburgh I'd be trying to flog it to my Mum so I
could borrow it...




A

Mike Dodd <no-address@lo0> wrote in
news:42eb9e6a$0$13706$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com: 


> Stu wrote:
> 
>> This was a 94 car (albeit an early 94 L reg), but I can't tell which 
>> grille it is (it's the burgundy one in autotrader with 80k miles).
>> The worry with the aircon is that it may need expensive work, like
>> Dave said. The owner said that his dealer told him it was to do with
>> the gas, but they quoted him an astronomical price (1500) to sort
>> it! 
>> 
> 
> I'm very surprised that he hadn't approached an independent 
> air-conditioning specialist for a quote. I'd suggest treading with
> care. 
> 

He said he didn't think it worth it as he only does 3000 miles a year in it  
and isn't a fan of A/C anyway. Don't know whether he was telling the truth 
or not, but personally I think it's a godsend and refuse to compromise on a 
car without it. I've dismissed that one any way. It was quite a distance 
away and I'm not travelling so far to look at one unless I think there's a 
very good chance I'll want to buy it. This one didn't quite make it into 
that category.

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

> Mike Dodd <no-address@lo0> wrote in
> news:42eb9e6a$0$13706$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com: 
> 
> 
>>Stu wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This was a 94 car (albeit an early 94 L reg), but I can't tell which 
>>>grille it is (it's the burgundy one in autotrader with 80k miles).
>>>The worry with the aircon is that it may need expensive work, like
>>>Dave said. The owner said that his dealer told him it was to do with
>>>the gas, but they quoted him an astronomical price (1500) to sort
>>>it! 
>>>
>>
>>I'm very surprised that he hadn't approached an independent 
>>air-conditioning specialist for a quote. I'd suggest treading with
>>care. 
>>
> 
> He said he didn't think it worth it as he only does 3000 miles a year in it  
> and isn't a fan of A/C anyway. Don't know whether he was telling the truth 
> or not, but personally I think it's a godsend and refuse to compromise on a 
> car without it. I've dismissed that one any way. It was quite a distance 
> away and I'm not travelling so far to look at one unless I think there's a 
> very good chance I'll want to buy it. This one didn't quite make it into 
> that category.
> 

The prospect of buying a car with AC fitted, but not used, and not 
gassed for any length of time should ring alarm bells - apparently the 
seals could fail and the compressor could be goosed (someone here will 
give a more accurate description, I'm sure), so even if it was only a 
case of needing regassing, some time ago, having left it in that state 
would, I understand, cause significant damage to the AC (or at least if 
the AC was then tried).

A good idea, I think, to have walked away from that one.

Alistair J Murray  wrote in
news:49psr2-382.ln1@florin.fluffy: 



> My fairly hard driven 740i returned ~22mpg overall, ~26mpg on long
> M-way journeys on cruise @ 85ish...
> 
> ...and about 17mpg hooning about the highlands.

Ouch!

> You should get a little (~2mpg??) better with the lighter E34.
> 

Hmmm...I think the 3.0 V8 is probably the biggest I should consider. Any 
bigger and I think it'll spend most of it's time sat on the drive while I 
save up for more petrol :-) Especially with the recent oil price hike! 5 
per gallon seem laughable a few years ago but it's coming....


> 
>      [...autoboxes...]
>
> 
> The most embarrassing is when your clutch foot finds the jumbo brake
> pedal...
> 

LOL....then you bang your head on the windscreen!


>      [...engine life...]
> 
>>> I ran an E38 740i with its original M60 from 110-140k and it never
>>>  missed a beat - it's a fabulous motor.
>> 
>> The type of example in my price range would already have done that 
>> kind of mileage. Good to hear something positive about it, though :-)
> 
> The M60 will run for ever if you look after it, 500k examples are not
> rare. 


As long as not damaged by supermarket petrol, eh? Apparently, one should 
look for a smooth idle and do a compression test. I don't have a tester but 
I can imagine that it would be quite a long job on a M60! Eight coil packs 
and plugs to remove, then connect the guage and turn over eight times! The 
owner would have to be patient & co-operative to allow you to do this!

> 

> Apart from two extra plugs servicing costs are not going to vary much
> across the range, optional 17" rims will add more to your costs.
> 
> Which reminds me; *AVOID* metric/TRX wheels, the tyres are rare and
> scary expensive, often costing more than a set of 16"/17" alloys and
> tyres. 
> 

Yes, I've heard of these. Did any of the later E34s have these?



> 
> If it was closer to Edinburgh I'd be trying to flog it to my Mum so I
> could borrow it...
> 
> 

Ah, yes - that's the best way of having a car. Much cheaper than owning it 
:-)

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Mike Dodd <no-address@lo0> wrote in
news:42ebba31$0$6483$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com: 


> The prospect of buying a car with AC fitted, but not used, and not 
> gassed for any length of time should ring alarm bells - apparently the
> seals could fail and the compressor could be goosed (someone here will
> give a more accurate description, I'm sure), so even if it was only a 
> case of needing regassing, some time ago, having left it in that state
> would, I understand, cause significant damage to the AC (or at least
> if the AC was then tried).


Yes. Sometimes they will gas up fine, but I don't intend buying one without 
it working. Unless the owner agrees to having it gassed as a condition of 
the sale. In which case, he or she would have to be confident that no other 
work was required.

> 
> A good idea, I think, to have walked away from that one.
> 

Or to not have walked to it in the first place :-) I'm glad now, too. But 
it was quite tempting....


-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

> Alistair J Murray  wrote in 
> news:49psr2-382.ln1@florin.fluffy:
> 
>> My fairly hard driven 740i returned ~22mpg overall, ~26mpg on long
>> M-way journeys on cruise @ 85ish...
>> 
>> ...and about 17mpg hooning about the highlands.
> 
> Ouch!


You don't buy a big V8 to do economy runs. :)


>> You should get a little (~2mpg??) better with the lighter E34.
>> 
> Hmmm...I think the 3.0 V8 is probably the biggest I should consider. 
> Any bigger and I think it'll spend most of it's time sat on the drive
> while I save up for more petrol :-) Especially with the recent oil 
> price hike! 5 per gallon seem laughable a few years ago but it's 
> coming....


My current B10 drinks only Optimax.  =8/

Remember: you can always ware an extra jersey instead of switching the
heating on, children thrive on gruel, shiny bog paper is cheap...

;)


>> [...autoboxes...]
>> 
>> The most embarrassing is when your clutch foot finds the jumbo 
>> brake pedal...
>> 
> LOL....then you bang your head on the windscreen!


That's the one...

	[...engine life...]


>> The M60 will run for ever if you look after it, 500k examples are 
>> not rare.
> 
> As long as not damaged by supermarket petrol, eh? Apparently, one 
> should look for a smooth idle and do a compression test.


I doubt if there are any damaged motors still out there since dodgy high
sulphur petrol is well in the past.  You are in one of the worse
affected areas tho'.


> I don't have a tester but I can imagine that it would be quite a long
> job on a M60! Eight coil packs and plugs to remove, then connect the
> guage and turn over eight times! The owner would have to be patient &
> co-operative to allow you to do this!


IIRC it's a 30min job.

I would just walk away from anything with a lumpy idle unless the owner
would do the comp test.

	[...]


>> Which reminds me; *AVOID* metric/TRX wheels, the tyres are rare and
>> scary expensive, often costing more than a set of 16"/17" alloys 
>> and tyres.
>>
> Yes, I've heard of these. Did any of the later E34s have these?


Not sure, early ones sometimes did, most have been replaced.


>> If it was closer to Edinburgh I'd be trying to flog it to my Mum so
>> I could borrow it...
>
> Ah, yes - that's the best way of having a car. Much cheaper than 
> owning it :-)


I would have bought a Touring if one had shown up, but ALPINA Tourings
are rare and I use the extra 60bhp every day and only miss the extra
loadspace once or twice a year...

....having a 540iT in the family would be handy.  :)



A

Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:7a1tr2-hf5.ln1
@florin.fluffy:



> You don't buy a big V8 to do economy runs. :)
> 

This is true. However, I must consider the point that if I get too big an 
engine, I won't be doing many runs at all, economy or otherwise, due to 
lack of funding ;-) Besides, I wouldn't think of the 525 as a slow car; 
certainly quicker than my current car (Primera GT).

>>> 
>> Hmmm...I think the 3.0 V8 is probably the biggest I should consider. 
>> Any bigger and I think it'll spend most of it's time sat on the drive
>> while I save up for more petrol :-) Especially with the recent oil 
>> price hike! 5 per gallon seem laughable a few years ago but it's 
>> coming....
> 
> My current B10 drinks only Optimax.  =8/
> 
> Remember: you can always ware an extra jersey instead of switching the
> heating on, children thrive on gruel, shiny bog paper is cheap...
> 

I ain't that tight.....well, not quite ;-) Just being realistic, that's 
all. If I had the money to spend on tanker after tanker of fuel, I 
wouldn't be fussing over my car purchasing budget.

> 

Moving on, what does everyone think of this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4564877773

I initially overlooked this because it's so damned clean, I assumed it 
had been tarted up by a dodgy dealer. However, looking at the seller's ID 
(it's his first auction), it looks like he's a valeter. I've been told 
not to ignore dealers, so what do you think?

I've posted a question about the aircon i.e. why say "will soon need 
regassing" - does it work or not? Have also asked some specific questions 
about it's exterior and mechanical condition.

Might try to arrange a viewing, although it's getting near the end of the 
auction. Worth a bid?
-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

	[...]


> Moving on, what does everyone think of this:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4564877773


Nice, but not special...


> I initially overlooked this because it's so damned clean, I assumed
> it had been tarted up by a dodgy dealer. However, looking at the
> seller's ID (it's his first auction), it looks like he's a valeter.


A few wee worries:

He thinks he has a V6 - how well does he know the car?

There seems to be a bit of beltline trim missing in the big wheel photo
between the door and wheel - not in keeping with the apparent condition.

Grey interior - not my taste...


> I've been told not to ignore dealers, so what do you think?


I'd want to see it in the flesh.

Service history is good though.


> I've posted a question about the aircon i.e. why say "will soon need
> regassing" - does it work or not? Have also asked some specific
> questions about it's exterior and mechanical condition.


Got a reply?


> Might try to arrange a viewing, although it's getting near the end of
> the auction. Worth a bid?


I'd not bid "real" money without seeing it, might stick a 1700 autobid
in blind on the offchance... :)




A

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ebaa14$0$63881$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> Although it's nice to have when you come to sell. I wouldn't rely too
> much on a service history. My experience with dealers is such that I
> don't use them any more, except for spares etc.
> In general their stds are too low for my liking. All the 'Which'
> surveys confirm that main dealer, and larger garage servicing leave
> much to be desired.
> According to Which, small independants tended to miss less and charge
> less for a better service.
> 
> Unless a car has been serviced well, (and how do you know that? ) what
> real value is it. Better IMO to buy on condition. Take someone along
> who really knows cars and what to look for, if you're unsure of
> checking a prospective purchase yourself.


Totally agree...it's just that if the condition looks good, it's nice to 
have the SH there to support the theory that it's been well kept. But SH 
or not, if I looked at a car and found that the oil was totally black 
(diesels excluded) and the coolant brown and/or sludgy, service history 
wouldn't mean a toss to me...I'd be off like a shot!

> 
> The recent service, oils, plugs and micro filter change on my car was
> carried out by a mobile tune and service type guy I've known for
> years. The rest I did myself.
> It did have a full SH when I baught it, but in his opinion, and mine,
> the plugs and the microfilter had almost certainly not been changed at
> it's last dealer service when they should have been. The plugs were
> quite burnt, and we reckoned the microfilter had years of dirt in it.
> Surprised air could even get throgh it.
> 

Yes, I've read about the microfilter change procedure. Looks quite 
fiddly, I'm not at all suprised it gets missed out. When and if I get 
one, the first job will be to get a new filter from eurocarparts and fit 
it.



-- 
Stuart Sharp

Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:1c6tr2-9i7.ln1
@florin.fluffy:


> Stu wrote:
> 
>      [...]
> 
>> Moving on, what does everyone think of this:
>> 
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4564877773
> 
> Nice, but not special...
> 
>> I initially overlooked this because it's so damned clean, I assumed
>> it had been tarted up by a dodgy dealer. However, looking at the
>> seller's ID (it's his first auction), it looks like he's a valeter.
> 
> A few wee worries:
> 
> He thinks he has a V6 - how well does he know the car?


Hadn't noticed that one. However, I thought there was a V6 until a few 
days ago when I started taking a real interest in them.

> 
> There seems to be a bit of beltline trim missing in the big wheel photo
> between the door and wheel - not in keeping with the apparent 

condition.

Did notice that. Not a big deal to replace though? I've posted a question 
to the seller about it's exterior condition.

> 
> Grey interior - not my taste...


I think I'd prefer it over leather. Leather tends to wear on well used 
cars. My Primera has leather trim and there's bald spots on the seat, 
wheel and gearknob at only 51,000 miles.

> 
>> I've been told not to ignore dealers, so what do you think?
> 
> I'd want to see it in the flesh.
> 
> Service history is good though.
> 
>> I've posted a question about the aircon i.e. why say "will soon need
>> regassing" - does it work or not? Have also asked some specific
>> questions about it's exterior and mechanical condition.
> 
> Got a reply?


Not yet, only posted this evening. Certainly won't bid much without 
getting to know.

> 
>> Might try to arrange a viewing, although it's getting near the end of
>> the auction. Worth a bid?
> 
> I'd not bid "real" money without seeing it, might stick a 1700 autobid
> in blind on the offchance... :)
> 

Will see what I can arrange. Might stick a low bid in like you say. Got 
to be worth something if in good order mechanically. If not then there's 
an argument to reject it on grounds of false description.

> 
> 

Thanks for your comments

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

> Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:1c6tr2-9i7.ln1
>  @florin.fluffy:

	[...]

>> A few wee worries:
>> 
>> He thinks he has a V6 - how well does he know the car?
> 
> Hadn't noticed that one. However, I thought there was a V6 until a
> few days ago when I started taking a real interest in them.


Not a biggy, but makes me think everything he says might be fluff...


>> There seems to be a bit of beltline trim missing in the big wheel
>> photo between the door and wheel - not in keeping with the apparent
>> condition.
> 
> Did notice that. Not a big deal to replace though? I've posted a
> question to the seller about it's exterior condition.


Again it's just a bit of sloppiness - 5 and 5mins to fix, so why not?


>> Grey interior - not my taste...
> 
> I think I'd prefer it over leather. Leather tends to wear on well
> used cars. My Primera has leather trim and there's bald spots on the
> seat, wheel and gearknob at only 51,000 miles.


It's the pale grey I'm not keen on. :)

BMW leather wares well - gets patina, not shagged - but so does the
fabric...

	[...]


>> I'd not bid "real" money without seeing it, might stick a 1700
>> autobid in blind on the offchance... :)
>>  
> Will see what I can arrange. Might stick a low bid in like you say.
> Got to be worth something if in good order mechanically. If not then
> there's an argument to reject it on grounds of false description.


Below 2k you can't really lose...


> Thanks for your comments


....but that 540 Touring has a nice feel to it - now on Ebay...

http://tinyurl.com/a5lux

Maybe it's just that the wheels match mine, but...





A

In article , Stu says...


> Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car inspection 
> stuff apply?
> 
> BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 'good' 
> at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the right condition?
> 

OK..yes it is a bit pricey.

1) Drive it. Make sure there's no juddering under braking. If there is 
it could be the front upper suspension arm bushes and it's around 150 
a side to do.
2) Make sure there are no knocks from the rear over bumps - could be 
rear subframe bushes.
3) If the engine rattles, walk away.
4) Check for signs of fuel leaks on the tank, even look for stains. If 
there are, the chances are the metal pipes that go over the top of the 
tank have corroded which means taking the tank off and usually 
replacing the full pipes.



-- 
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room 
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A3D7C8C9A23nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> Moving on, what does everyone think of this:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4564877773
>
> I initially overlooked this because it's so damned clean, I assumed it
> had been tarted up by a dodgy dealer. However, looking at the seller's ID
> (it's his first auction), it looks like he's a valeter. I've been told
> not to ignore dealers, so what do you think?


Sounds and looks like a nice car. The same spec as mine, apart from mine
having sports seats.
Personally I don't like the colour, but dark coloured cars do look nice when
they're polished. :-)

>
> I've posted a question about the aircon i.e. why say "will soon need
> regassing" - does it work or not?


Probably means it's not getting as cold as it should, but it'll definitely
be an R134a system. He says it has a full SH, so ask if there is any record
of it being regassed in the past, and if so when. It's not unusual for an
a/c system to need regassing after a few years. As the systems lose gas,
they become less efficient, until they get to the point where the a/c
doesn't work at all. It may be that it's never been regassed since it was
new, in which case it's not much too worry about IMO.

Have also asked some specific questions

> about it's exterior and mechanical condition.
>
> Might try to arrange a viewing, although it's getting near the end of the
> auction. Worth a bid?


Yup, but I wouldn't go over 2200 max. That's assuming the tyres have plenty
of tread, 5-6mm, and the wheels haven't been kerbed etc.
If you can get to see it and have a drive, even better, but I'd still bid on
it anyway.

One thing about buying from a dealer is that you have more protection under
the trade descriptions act. As a dealer he is expected to know cars, so if
he tells you anything that isn't true, he can't plead ignorance.
Mike.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> > The M60 will run for ever if you look after it, 500k examples are not
> > rare. 

> As long as not damaged by supermarket petrol, eh? Apparently, one should
> look for a smooth idle and do a compression test. I don't have a tester
> but I can imagine that it would be quite a long job on a M60! Eight
> coil packs and plugs to remove, then connect the guage and turn over
> eight times! The owner would have to be patient & co-operative to allow
> you to do this!


I don't think the Nikasil issue still exists unless the car is a 'barn'
find.

High sulphur petrol hasn't been on sale here for many years, and once an
engine is attacked it goes downhill very quickly.

-- 
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> Yes, I've read about the microfilter change procedure. Looks quite 
> fiddly, I'm not at all suprised it gets missed out. When and if I get 
> one, the first job will be to get a new filter from eurocarparts and fit 
> it.


That's another improvment on the E39 - although there are now two
microfilters they're a five minute job to change with no tools required.

-- 
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions. Tempted by the early E39s but what about the 
> reliability? I thought E34s were the best bulit BMW ever - that's what 
> persuaded me to go a bit older in the first place.


I'm not sure there's much to choose between them, reliability wise (6
cylinder only). But having had both, the E39 is a far better car. It's got
R&P steering, which is much nicer. Adequate rear leg room even with a tall
driver, and a bigger boot. Most early E39s will be fully loaded and IMHO
the 528 is the one to go for. The DSC is amazing if you've not tried a car
so fitted.

There are a few common problems, but easily checked. First one is wheel
wobble at about 60 mph - could be worn suspension bushes and cost about
500 at a dealer, but an easy enough DIY job for a fraction of that. My car
is at about 80,000 miles and still fine.

Heater motor resistor. Motor either doesn't work or can't have the speed
altered. About 60 quid for the part. I've had two, but only paid for one.

Aux fan. This should run when the AC is on. They usually don't. ;-)

There's a good E39 group - see sig for details.

-- 
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

    Dave Plowman                           dave@davesound.co.uk     
     528 Auto                                 London SW12 (UK)

  Co-Moderator BMW E39 Enthusiast Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bmwe39

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ec3de2$0$40150$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A3D7C8C9A23nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> Moving on, what does everyone think of this:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4564877773
>>
> Sounds and looks like a nice car. The same spec as mine, apart from
> mine having sports seats.
> Personally I don't like the colour, but dark coloured cars do look
> nice when they're polished. :-)
>>

And don't look as bad when dirty ;-) I'd like the dark green (looks more 
blue in the photos - probably the colour balance of the d. camera). 
Obviously the right car is far more important than it's colour. The ones 
I'd avoid if possible are plain (non-metallic) blue and silver. I've had 
a silver car for five years now and I don't even like silver very much. 
So a change from that would be nice for me.


>> I've posted a question about the aircon i.e. why say "will soon need
>> regassing" - does it work or not?
> 
> Probably means it's not getting as cold as it should, but it'll
> definitely be an R134a system. He says it has a full SH, so ask if
> there is any record of it being regassed in the past, and if so when.
> It's not unusual for an a/c system to need regassing after a few
> years. As the systems lose gas, they become less efficient, until they
> get to the point where the a/c doesn't work at all. It may be that
> it's never been regassed since it was new, in which case it's not much
> too worry about IMO. 


If he's had it for years and never had it re-gassed although it's still 
working, that's great news. OTOH, if he's just bought it cheap to clean 
up and sell on, I'd be wary, because it suggests the A/C isn't working as 
it should. And with the weather the last few days, one might convince 
oneself that it's working (albeit inefficiently) when it isn't. Good idea 
to ask about a regas in the history, though.

> 
> Have also asked some specific questions
>> about it's exterior and mechanical condition.


These questions were about scratches, dents, chips etc...things that I 
may not otherwise find out about without seeing the car. Also asked if 
there's any mechanical problems, knocks or rattles, as I won't be getting 
the chance to drive it. As it's an auction he is obliged to either answer 
honestly or not at all.

>>
>> Might try to arrange a viewing, although it's getting near the end of
>> the auction. Worth a bid?
> 
> Yup, but I wouldn't go over 2200 max. That's assuming the tyres have
> plenty of tread, 5-6mm, and the wheels haven't been kerbed etc.
> If you can get to see it and have a drive, even better, but I'd still
> bid on it anyway.
> 

May put in a modest bid if I get satisfactory answers to my questions, 
although I'd probably go a little less than 2200 having not seen it. 
Don't want to let a good one get away but OTOH, don't want to get 
fleeced.


> One thing about buying from a dealer is that you have more protection
> under the trade descriptions act. As a dealer he is expected to know
> cars, so if he tells you anything that isn't true, he can't plead
> ignorance. Mike.
> 

If he answer my questions properly I should be pretty well covered. i.e. 
if something (which I've asked about) turns out to be wrong when he's 
said it isn't, then the car is not as described and the sale becomes 
void. I realise that this kind of dispute can be ugly, but the person 
holding the cash would normally have the upper hand. Lots of less than 
perfect cars seem to get relisted time and time again because people have 
bought them then rejected them. The ones with comments like 'you are 
bidding to buy' and 'no tyre kickers.'

I don't forsee any major problems. I's a very late E34 and the high-ish 
mileage suggest's it's spent a fair bit of it's life on M'ways and A 
roads. Combined with the maintenance record, this should mean that wear 
and tear is low in relation to it's age and mileage.



-- 
Stuart Sharp

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> I don't forsee any major problems. I's a very late E34 and the high-ish 
> mileage suggest's it's spent a fair bit of it's life on M'ways and A 
> roads. Combined with the maintenance record, this should mean that wear 
> and tear is low in relation to it's age and mileage.


And very likely has lots of stone chipping to both paint and windscreen,
so check this out or for signs of a 'blow over' repair.

-- 
*Reality is the illusion that occurs due to the lack of alcohol *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A4713F6537Anobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42ec3de2$0$40150$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net:
>
> >
> > "Stu"  wrote in message
> > news:Xns96A3D7C8C9A23nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
> >> Moving on, what does everyone think of this:
> >>
> >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4564877773
> >>

> If he's had it for years


Highly unlikely as he's a dealer. If you click on 'View seller's other
items' you'll see he has 10 other cars listed.

and never had it re-gassed although it's still

> working, that's great news. OTOH, if he's just bought it cheap to clean
> up and sell on, I'd be wary, because it suggests the A/C isn't working as
> it should. And with the weather the last few days, one might convince
> oneself that it's working (albeit inefficiently) when it isn't. Good idea
> to ask about a regas in the history, though.
> >
> > Have also asked some specific questions
> >> about it's exterior and mechanical condition.
>
> These questions were about scratches, dents, chips etc...things that I
> may not otherwise find out about without seeing the car. Also asked if
> there's any mechanical problems, knocks or rattles, as I won't be getting
> the chance to drive it. As it's an auction he is obliged to either answer
> honestly or not at all.


As a dealer he is legally obliged to answer as truthfully as he can. If you
do get it, and it turns out that he has misled you, I wouldn't bother
complaining to eBay if he doesn't cooperate. Trading Standards would be the
way to go. They have real teeth, rather than eBays wishy-washy way of
dealing with disputes.

I baught a Jag once from eBay. Sold by a dealer. Was nothing like the
description. He was quite argumentative, and didn't want to return my money,
but when I threatened to go to Trading Standards, he caved in straightaway.
Cheeky sod then tried to reclaim his listing fee from eBay, on the grounds
of my backing out of the deal. Needless to say he didn't get it, and I kept
my 100% feedback score.


> I don't forsee any major problems. I's a very late E34 and the high-ish
> mileage suggest's it's spent a fair bit of it's life on M'ways and A
> roads. Combined with the maintenance record, this should mean that wear
> and tear is low in relation to it's age and mileage.


Similar mileage to mine. They do wear well. There is nothing on mine to
suggest that it has done 155k. The cloth on the drivers seat is no different
to the cloth on the other seats. No signs of wear at all.
No rattles or creaks, even on rough surfaces.
Mike.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4d930cba67dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
> > I don't forsee any major problems. I's a very late E34 and the high-ish
> > mileage suggest's it's spent a fair bit of it's life on M'ways and A
> > roads. Combined with the maintenance record, this should mean that wear
> > and tear is low in relation to it's age and mileage.
>
> And very likely has lots of stone chipping to both paint and windscreen,
> so check this out or for signs of a 'blow over' repair.


I think stone chips are almost certain to be present. Be surprising if they
weren't. Having said that, my car was singularly free of bonnet chips. The
guy had had the whole bonnet professionally resprayed about a year before I
baught it, as it was quite badly stone chipped. If he hadn't told me though,
I'd never have known. It's a perfect match, and looks completely original.
No giveaway signs at all.
Mike

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ecb41e$0$88080$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A4713F6537Anobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> "Mike G"  wrote in
>> news:42ec3de2$0$40150$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net:
>>
>> >
>> > "Stu"  wrote in message
>> > news:Xns96A3D7C8C9A23nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> >> Moving on, what does everyone think of this:
>> >>
>> >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4564877773
>> >>
> 
>> If he's had it for years
> 
> Highly unlikely as he's a dealer. If you click on 'View seller's other
> items' you'll see he has 10 other cars listed.
> 

Ah....never thought to look at his other items because he's a new member 
with zero feedback. I reckon I'll be steering clear of this now as I'm 
staring to get a bad feeling about it. Like the missing trim that 
Alistair mentioned - a good dealer should have sorted that out. And some 
of the other cars he has are sheds. I reckon he's picked up the Beemer 
for peanuts...and why? Could be an unwanted main dealer PX, picked up at 
auction, but it's risky without seeing it and it's too late for me to 
make the long trip.

Back to the drawing board, then :-( I'm getting told not to be frightened 
of the E39s with the 2.8 engine, so I'll be looking more closely and 
seeing if one will fall into my sub-3000 budget. Will be interesting to 
see what this goes for (ending toady):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9837&item=
4563825318&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

No bids yet. Quite a few good points i.e. engine been done, steptronic 
box, FSH, new tyres etc. Shame about that scratch but it would be worth 
getting it done if the car came for the right price. I'm guessing he's 
set his reserve at the same amount as the starting did?

I've just posted to the seller to ask for a chat by phone. Come on, guys, 
seven hours left to tell me if I should buy it ;-)


-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu  wrote in
news:Xns96A4851E0B9ECnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144: 


> Ah....never thought to look at his other items because he's a new
> member with zero feedback. I reckon I'll be steering clear of this now
> as I'm staring to get a bad feeling about it. Like the missing trim
> that Alistair mentioned - a good dealer should have sorted that out.
> And some of the other cars he has are sheds. I reckon he's picked up
> the Beemer for peanuts...and why? Could be an unwanted main dealer PX,
> picked up at auction, but it's risky without seeing it and it's too
> late for me to make the long trip.



BTW, he's replyied to my questions, but rather succinctly! For all I asked 
him to confirm about scratches, dents, chips, knocks, rattles faults of any 
kind, are you a trade seller etc... I got this:

"Hi Stuart , yes the car is sold as seen 
 
the air con will need regasing as the air doesnt blow as cold as it could
 
there are only minor stone chips on the car
 
there are no mechanical defects only a C.C. warning stating " EDS Regelt " 
which is a brake light circuit warning which has been sorted .... - slight 
corrosion on one contact"

I'm now quite pleased with myself for not bidding on it.

-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in
news:4d93038a43dave@davenoise.co.uk: 


> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
>> Thanks for the suggestions. Tempted by the early E39s but what about
>> the reliability? I thought E34s were the best bulit BMW ever - that's
>> what persuaded me to go a bit older in the first place.
> 
> I'm not sure there's much to choose between them, reliability wise (6
> cylinder only). But having had both, the E39 is a far better car. It's
> got R&P steering, which is much nicer. Adequate rear leg room even
> with a tall driver, and a bigger boot. Most early E39s will be fully
> loaded and IMHO the 528 is the one to go for. The DSC is amazing if
> you've not tried a car so fitted.
>

I must admit I'd like to go for an E39, because it's only just out of 
date and it got such good press while it was out, it must be a bloody 
good car to drive. I once rode as a passenger in one for the day and it 
was about the most comfortable vehicle I've ever been in. It's all the 
technology that worries me a bit. That DSC -  is that Dynamic Stability 
Control?....or Don't be Surprised if it Costs you? :-)


> There are a few common problems, but easily checked. First one is
> wheel wobble at about 60 mph - could be worn suspension bushes and
> cost about 500 at a dealer, but an easy enough DIY job for a fraction
> of that. My car is at about 80,000 miles and still fine.


This kind of stuff I can cope with. It's expensive electronic failures 
that cost a great deal to replace that I'm concerned about.

> 
> Heater motor resistor. Motor either doesn't work or can't have the
> speed altered. About 60 quid for the part. I've had two, but only paid
> for one. 
> 
> Aux fan. This should run when the AC is on. They usually don't. ;-)
> 

Can live with those, no problem. See my other post about the E39 528 on 
eBay. What's the reputation of the steptronic box?


> There's a good E39 group - see sig for details.
> 

Ta


-- 
Stuart Sharp

In news:Xns96A4861EEC75nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144,
Stu  decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant 
as follows

> Stu  wrote in
> news:Xns96A4851E0B9ECnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144:
>
>> Ah....never thought to look at his other items because he's a new
>> member with zero feedback. I reckon I'll be steering clear of this
>> now
>> as I'm staring to get a bad feeling about it. Like the missing trim
>> that Alistair mentioned - a good dealer should have sorted that out.
>> And some of the other cars he has are sheds. I reckon he's picked up
>> the Beemer for peanuts...and why? Could be an unwanted main dealer
>> PX, picked up at auction, but it's risky without seeing it and it's
>> too
>> late for me to make the long trip.
>
>
> BTW, he's replyied to my questions, but rather succinctly! For all I
> asked him to confirm about scratches, dents, chips, knocks, rattles
> faults of any kind, are you a trade seller etc... I got this:
>
> "Hi Stuart , yes the car is sold as seen
>
> the air con will need regasing as the air doesnt blow as cold as it
> could
>
> there are only minor stone chips on the car
>
> there are no mechanical defects only a C.C. warning stating " EDS
> Regelt " which is a brake light circuit warning which has been sorted
> .... - slight corrosion on one contact"
>
> I'm now quite pleased with myself for not bidding on it.


Do the right thing, buy a W124 Mercedes instead.


-- 
Pete M

Range Rover Vogue SE, Ford Capri (ressurection stalling)
Porsche 911 3.2 (For Sale)

COSOC #5
Scouse Git extraordinaire. Liverpool, Great Britain

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A4851E0B9ECnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...


> Back to the drawing board, then :-( I'm getting told not to be frightened
> of the E39s with the 2.8 engine, so I'll be looking more closely and
> seeing if one will fall into my sub-3000 budget. Will be interesting to
> see what this goes for (ending toady):
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9837&item=
> 4563825318&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
>
> No bids yet. Quite a few good points i.e. engine been done, steptronic
> box, FSH, new tyres etc. Shame about that scratch but it would be worth
> getting it done if the car came for the right price. I'm guessing he's
> set his reserve at the same amount as the starting did?


Nice car but reserve is 4600.
Mike.

In article <42ecba72$0$3501$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>,
   Mike G  wrote:

> > And very likely has lots of stone chipping to both paint and
> > windscreen, so check this out or for signs of a 'blow over' repair.

> I think stone chips are almost certain to be present. Be surprising if
> they weren't. Having said that, my car was singularly free of bonnet
> chips. The guy had had the whole bonnet professionally resprayed about a
> year before I baught it, as it was quite badly stone chipped. If he
> hadn't told me though, I'd never have known. It's a perfect match, and
> looks completely original. No giveaway signs at all.


Yup - of course it's fine if done properly. But on a cheap car being sold
by a dealer perhaps less likely.

-- 
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <42ecb41e$0$88080$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
   Mike G  wrote:

> Similar mileage to mine. They do wear well. There is nothing on mine to
> suggest that it has done 155k. The cloth on the drivers seat is no
> different to the cloth on the other seats.


The cloth driver's seat on my E34 was showing signs of wear at 140,000
miles. The seat frame also broke and had to be replaced for an MOT. Of
course I'm not sure what treatment it had before I bought it at 90,000
miles.



> No signs of wear at all.
> No rattles or creaks, even on rough surfaces.


-- 
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ecc24b$0$2819$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A4851E0B9ECnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
> 
>> Back to the drawing board, then :-( I'm getting told not to be
>> frightened of the E39s with the 2.8 engine, so I'll be looking more
>> closely and seeing if one will fall into my sub-3000 budget. Will be
>> interesting to see what this goes for (ending toady):
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9837&item=
>> 4563825318&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
>>
>> No bids yet. Quite a few good points i.e. engine been done,
>> steptronic box, FSH, new tyres etc. Shame about that scratch but it
>> would be worth getting it done if the car came for the right price.
>> I'm guessing he's set his reserve at the same amount as the starting
>> did? 
> 
> Nice car but reserve is 4600.
> Mike.
> 

Bugger! That's rather dear! I was comparing it to the one you pointed out 
on autotrader - only another 36k and with FSH and tiptronic for 3195. In 
fact, that's starting to look very tempting (here we go again), although 
the guy has specifically said no offers - so I'd definitely have to 
stretch the budget. Might be worth it though...especially if that other 
one fetches 4600! Thanks for pointing that out - another thing I missed.


-- 
Stuart Sharp

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> Could be an unwanted main dealer PX, picked up at 
> auction, but it's risky without seeing it and it's too late for me to 
> make the long trip.


I doubt any main dealer would sell a car of this age and mileage. My E34
when I traded it in on the E39 was passed on direct to a specialist - my
salesman agreed a price there and then over the phone. So I'd guess there
are specialist dealers who want high mileage FSH cars like this. 

I saw it some months later in a car park. All the dings and paint chips
gone, looking truly like new.

-- 
*Avoid clichs like the plague. (They're old hat.) *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> No bids yet. Quite a few good points i.e. engine been done, steptronic 
> box, FSH, new tyres etc. Shame about that scratch but it would be worth 
> getting it done if the car came for the right price. I'm guessing he's 
> set his reserve at the same amount as the starting did?


It's interesting that it has a sunroof and climate control. Cars without
climate control could have one, but not normally those with, although I
suppose it could be specified. There's no pic of the dash to see if it
really does have climate control.

Fixing a scratch which has gone through the clear coat is likely to mean
re-spraying that panel.

-- 
*Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> > There are a few common problems, but easily checked. First one is
> > wheel wobble at about 60 mph - could be worn suspension bushes and
> > cost about 500 at a dealer, but an easy enough DIY job for a fraction
> > of that. My car is at about 80,000 miles and still fine.

> This kind of stuff I can cope with. It's expensive electronic failures 
> that cost a great deal to replace that I'm concerned about.


There don't appear to be any common issues. ABS sensor failures - as on
any car - and occasional cam and crank position sensors. All easy DIY and
won't break the bank.

> > 
> > Heater motor resistor. Motor either doesn't work or can't have the
> > speed altered. About 60 quid for the part. I've had two, but only paid
> > for one. 
> > 
> > Aux fan. This should run when the AC is on. They usually don't. ;-)
> > 
> Can live with those, no problem. See my other post about the E39 528 on 
> eBay. What's the reputation of the steptronic box?


It seems robust. Mine's a Steptronic, and it's a bit of a nine days
wonder. The normal auto function is so good there's little point in
over-riding it. Not that you can anyway - it will still change up or down
when in Steptronic mode if you try and go outside the normal speed limit
for those gears.

-- 
*Even a blind pig stumbles across an acorn now and again *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in 
news:4d931cd139dave@davenoise.co.uk:

> 
> There don't appear to be any common issues. ABS sensor failures - as on
> any car - and occasional cam and crank position sensors. All easy DIY 
and
> won't break the bank.


Yup. I'm not expecting perfect reliabilty from a ten year old car. I just 
don't want a money pit, that's all.

> 
>> What's the reputation of the steptronic box?
> 
> It seems robust. Mine's a Steptronic, and it's a bit of a nine days
> wonder. The normal auto function is so good there's little point in
> over-riding it. Not that you can anyway - it will still change up or 
down
> when in Steptronic mode if you try and go outside the normal speed 
limit
> for those gears.
> 

I suppose it could be useful to initiate a downchange immediately before 
overtaking or beginning a very steep ascent?

I've decided to take a look at this tomorrow:

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/CARS_popup.asp?modelexact=1
&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=528
&keywords=&min_pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=40
&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=4
&distance=20&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200530201627643

A bit dear for me but cheap for what it is. I've phoned up and got the 
price confirmed (because it's advertised again for 100 more). Have also 
confirmed that all it's features are in GWO. Not holding my breath about 
the condition but must be worth a look, if only to get an experience of 
driving one. Only bad thing I know about so far is 4 previous owners, but 
this isn't unusual on a 9 year old car.

I'm thinking of getting a compression tester and insisting on carrying 
out the test (if it looks worth buying). I would have to buy the tester 
but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. Does anyone know what 
readings and % variation I should expect?

I will need some torx bits to remove the coil packs, yes? Any other tools 
required and anything I need to do, apart from pulling the fuel pump 
fuse, before testing?


-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A4916F6EFFEnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42ecc24b$0$2819$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
>
> >
> > "Stu"  wrote in message
> > news:Xns96A4851E0B9ECnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
> >
> >> Back to the drawing board, then :-( I'm getting told not to be
> >> frightened of the E39s with the 2.8 engine, so I'll be looking more
> >> closely and seeing if one will fall into my sub-3000 budget. Will be
> >> interesting to see what this goes for (ending toady):
> >>
> >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=9837&item=
> >> 4563825318&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> >>
> >> No bids yet. Quite a few good points i.e. engine been done,
> >> steptronic box, FSH, new tyres etc. Shame about that scratch but it
> >> would be worth getting it done if the car came for the right price.
> >> I'm guessing he's set his reserve at the same amount as the starting
> >> did?
> >
> > Nice car but reserve is 4600.
> > Mike.
> >
> Bugger! That's rather dear! I was comparing it to the one you pointed out
> on autotrader - only another 36k and with FSH and tiptronic for 3195. In
> fact, that's starting to look very tempting (here we go again), although
> the guy has specifically said no offers - so I'd definitely have to
> stretch the budget. Might be worth it though...especially if that other
> one fetches 4600! Thanks for pointing that out - another thing I missed.


Personally I wouldn't be so ready to dismiss the green '96 525iSE.
I think you might be reading too much into the sellers responses.
As for his other cars being sheds, he possibly only deals in low price cars.
No reason to suspect he's an Arthur Daley IMO, but it's your dollar.
At the right price it could still be a good buy. Looks like a very straight
car to me if the pics are anything to go by, and it does have a FSH.
The a/c does work, if not as well as it should, and as far as the missing
piece of trim that Alistair mentioned, I know the piece he's referring to
Even if it is missing it's no big deal.
5 mins to fit a new piece if it's just been knocked off the clips.
60-70 to get the a/c regassed.

As for a 528i E39, don't forget the slightly cheaper one in Autotrader at
2995. Metallic dark green again. 32 miles away.
Mike.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> > It seems robust. Mine's a Steptronic, and it's a bit of a nine days
> > wonder. The normal auto function is so good there's little point in
> > over-riding it. Not that you can anyway - it will still change up or
> > down when in Steptronic mode if you try and go outside the normal
> > speed limit for those gears.
> > 
> I suppose it could be useful to initiate a downchange immediately before 
> overtaking or beginning a very steep ascent?


Just use kickdown for the first if in a hurry, and it does this
automatically anyway for the second - some kind of incline sensor, IIRC.
If the car's on the overrun and speeding up while going downhill, touch
the brakes and it drops a gear or two.


> I've decided to take a look at this tomorrow:


<http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/CARS_popup.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=528&keywords=&min_pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=40&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=4&distance=20&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200530201627643>

See if that cures the wordwrap.


> A bit dear for me but cheap for what it is. I've phoned up and got the
> price confirmed (because it's advertised again for 100 more). Have also
> confirmed that all it's features are in GWO. Not holding my breath
> about the condition but must be worth a look, if only to get an
> experience of driving one. Only bad thing I know about so far is 4
> previous owners, but this isn't unusual on a 9 year old car.

> I'm thinking of getting a compression tester and insisting on carrying 
> out the test (if it looks worth buying). I would have to buy the tester 
> but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. Does anyone know what 
> readings and % variation I should expect?


The official test for Nikasil problems is a leakdown one. Dunno if this is
better than a compression test. But the 6 should have a silky smooth idle
hot or cold.


> I will need some torx bits to remove the coil packs, yes? Any other
> tools required and anything I need to do, apart from pulling the fuel
> pump fuse, before testing?


Dunno  - I've not done one.

-- 
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

> Ah....never thought to look at his other items because he's a new member
> with zero feedback. I reckon I'll be steering clear of this now as I'm
> staring to get a bad feeling about it. Like the missing trim that
> Alistair mentioned - a good dealer should have sorted that out. And some
> of the other cars he has are sheds. I reckon he's picked up the Beemer
> for peanuts...and why? Could be an unwanted main dealer PX, picked up at
> auction, but it's risky without seeing it and it's too late for me to
> make the long trip.


That's my main cynicism with cars for sale by dealers - a lot of them are 
part-exchanged by people who know that it'll be hard to get a decent price 
selling it privately, due to various little niggles, or just can't be arsed 
with the hassles, so dealers get hold of them at rock-bottom prices and 
shout about the good points, whilst being as honest as possible but still as 
vague as possible about the not-so-good points.  And the cars that really 
are mint in every way are generally asking silly money, as the dealer knows 
he's got something particularly good.  Much better in any case, IMHO, to go 
for a genuine private sale.  But it ain't neccessarily so - there are some 
dealers that do sell genuinely good cars at decent prices, so if you're in 
the know or know someone who is, it can be worth a look.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

>> Similar mileage to mine. They do wear well. There is nothing on mine to
>> suggest that it has done 155k. The cloth on the drivers seat is no
>> different to the cloth on the other seats.
>
> The cloth driver's seat on my E34 was showing signs of wear at 140,000
> miles. The seat frame also broke and had to be replaced for an MOT. Of
> course I'm not sure what treatment it had before I bought it at 90,000
> miles.


I reckon all main dealer parts departments should sell a combined package of 
driver's seat and steering wheel, for those running their cars for a very 
long time.  Recommended replacement interval would be 10 years or 300,000 
miles, whichever is sooner.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

>> Could be an unwanted main dealer PX, picked up at
>> auction, but it's risky without seeing it and it's too late for me to
>> make the long trip.
>
> I doubt any main dealer would sell a car of this age and mileage. My E34
> when I traded it in on the E39 was passed on direct to a specialist - my
> salesman agreed a price there and then over the phone. So I'd guess there
> are specialist dealers who want high mileage FSH cars like this.
>
> I saw it some months later in a car park. All the dings and paint chips
> gone, looking truly like new.


I'm guessing that's what he meant by "unwanted" main dealer PX - i.e. the 
main dealer didn't want it and passed it on to one who did.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

>> No bids yet. Quite a few good points i.e. engine been done, steptronic
>> box, FSH, new tyres etc. Shame about that scratch but it would be worth
>> getting it done if the car came for the right price. I'm guessing he's
>> set his reserve at the same amount as the starting did?
>
> It's interesting that it has a sunroof and climate control. Cars without
> climate control could have one, but not normally those with, although I
> suppose it could be specified. There's no pic of the dash to see if it
> really does have climate control.


Aye, that was certainly the case on the early shape Audi A6 - the sunroof 
was ditched when they introduced climate control on the SE spec models. 
Though one I looked at had sunroof as well - it had been specified as an 
extra when new.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in
news:4d93226912dave@davenoise.co.uk: 

> 
> <http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/CARS_popup.asp?modelexact=1&lid=s
> earch_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=528&keywords=&min_
> pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=40&max_records=
> 50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=4&distance=20&
> adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200530201627643> 
> 
> See if that cures the wordwrap.
> 

HeHe. Don't know why I ever switched to Xnews, Agent was better :-)


>> I'm thinking of getting a compression tester and insisting on
>> carrying out the test (if it looks worth buying). I would have to buy
>> the tester but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. Does
>> anyone know what readings and % variation I should expect?
> 
> The official test for Nikasil problems is a leakdown one. Dunno if
> this is better than a compression test. But the 6 should have a silky
> smooth idle hot or cold.


I'll be listening for that. As already mentioned, any problems should 
have manifested themselves by know and at this mileage would be 
displaying visible symptons would they not? i.e. smoke puffs, rough idle 
etc.

Leakdown test: is that where you pressurise the cylinder then watch for 
it dropping? Won't be able to do that on the forecourt, but with a good 
compression test and everything looking OK it would have to be pretty 
certain, wouldn't it?

> 
>> I will need some torx bits to remove the coil packs, yes? Any other
>> tools required and anything I need to do, apart from pulling the fuel
>> pump fuse, before testing?
> 
> Dunno  - I've not done one.
> 

Ah, yes - you're sensnibly maintaining your service history, aren't you? 
Sure someone will know. Compression figures too, please!


-- 
Stuart Sharp

"AstraVanMan"  wrote in
news:vN5He.14807$YL5.14042@newsfe2-win.ntli.net: 


>>> Could be an unwanted main dealer PX, picked up at
>>> auction, but it's risky without seeing it and it's too late for me
>>> to make the long trip.
>>
>> I doubt any main dealer would sell a car of this age and mileage. My
>> E34 when I traded it in on the E39 was passed on direct to a
>> specialist - my salesman agreed a price there and then over the
>> phone. So I'd guess there are specialist dealers who want high
>> mileage FSH cars like this. 
>>
>> I saw it some months later in a car park. All the dings and paint
>> chips gone, looking truly like new.
> 
> I'm guessing that's what he meant by "unwanted" main dealer PX - i.e.
> the main dealer didn't want it and passed it on to one who did.
> 

Correct.


-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A49A778379Anobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...


>
> I've decided to take a look at this tomorrow:
>
> http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/CARS_popup.asp?modelexact=1
> &lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=528
> &keywords=&min_pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=40
> &max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=4
> &distance=20&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200530201627643

> I'm thinking of getting a compression tester and insisting on carrying
> out the test (if it looks worth buying). I would have to buy the tester
> but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. Does anyone know what
> readings and % variation I should expect?
>
> I will need some torx bits to remove the coil packs, yes? Any other tools
> required and anything I need to do, apart from pulling the fuel pump
> fuse, before testing?


I would be surprised if they allow you to do that. As you realise, it's not
a straight plugs out, screw in the guage and give the starter a whirl.
He doesn't know you from Adam, so from his POV you could bugger it up. Again
from his POV, why should he. At that price I don't think he'll have much
trouble selling it just as it stands.
In any case if 1 or 2 cylinders are low on compression, you can usually tell
by the way an engine starts and ticks over. If they're all low, no doubt it
will be burning oil, and be low on power.
It should tick over as steady as a rock. Maybe with just a very faint tappet
noise, (you can hear the tappets on mine when it starts from cold, but it's
nothing to worry about. AFAIC my engine is perfect) and the exhaust pipe is
clean, the chances are that the engine is fine.
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ece3fc$0$66073$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 

> 
> Personally I wouldn't be so ready to dismiss the green '96 525iSE.
> I think you might be reading too much into the sellers responses.
> As for his other cars being sheds, he possibly only deals in low price
> cars. No reason to suspect he's an Arthur Daley IMO, but it's your
> dollar. At the right price it could still be a good buy. Looks like a
> very straight car to me if the pics are anything to go by, and it does
> have a FSH. The a/c does work, if not as well as it should, and as far
> as the missing piece of trim that Alistair mentioned, I know the piece
> he's referring to Even if it is missing it's no big deal.
> 5 mins to fit a new piece if it's just been knocked off the clips.
> 60-70 to get the a/c regassed.
> 
> As for a 528i E39, don't forget the slightly cheaper one in Autotrader
> at 2995. Metallic dark green again. 32 miles away.
> Mike.
> 


I still have the guy's phone number. I'll give him a ring tomorrow - can't 
hurt can it? If the E39 I'm going to see turns out to be a wild goose 
chase, I could still make it back in time for a sneaky bid before the 
auction ends :-)

-- 
Stuart Sharp

"AstraVanMan"  wrote in
news:CJ5He.14804$YL5.4648@newsfe2-win.ntli.net: 


>> Ah....never thought to look at his other items because he's a new
>> member with zero feedback. I reckon I'll be steering clear of this
>> now as I'm staring to get a bad feeling about it. Like the missing
>> trim that Alistair mentioned - a good dealer should have sorted that
>> out. And some of the other cars he has are sheds. I reckon he's
>> picked up the Beemer for peanuts...and why? Could be an unwanted main
>> dealer PX, picked up at auction, but it's risky without seeing it and
>> it's too late for me to make the long trip.
> 
> That's my main cynicism with cars for sale by dealers - a lot of them
> are part-exchanged by people who know that it'll be hard to get a
> decent price selling it privately, due to various little niggles, or
> just can't be arsed with the hassles, so dealers get hold of them at
> rock-bottom prices and shout about the good points, whilst being as
> honest as possible but still as vague as possible about the
> not-so-good points.  And the cars that really are mint in every way
> are generally asking silly money, as the dealer knows he's got
> something particularly good.  Much better in any case, IMHO, to go for
> a genuine private sale.  But it ain't neccessarily so - there are some
> dealers that do sell genuinely good cars at decent prices, so if
> you're in the know or know someone who is, it can be worth a look.
> 

Well I'm going to look at an E39 tomorrow, described as 'beautiful 
condition throughout.' I've rang the dealer and asked "Are all the cars 
features in good working order," to which he replied "Yes." Has done 140k 
with FSH, is fully loaded and he wants 3195, no offers and no p/x. Now, 
I've done some checking on autotrader, and if this car isn't a bargain 
then he's being *very* economical with the truth, if not dishonest!

I'm not holding my breath, but you never know. I'm happy to be going just 
to get a drive of one :-)

-- 
Stuart Sharp

"AstraVanMan"  wrote in
news:hM5He.14806$YL5.954@newsfe2-win.ntli.net: 


>>> Similar mileage to mine. They do wear well. There is nothing on mine
>>> to suggest that it has done 155k. The cloth on the drivers seat is
>>> no different to the cloth on the other seats.
>>
>> The cloth driver's seat on my E34 was showing signs of wear at
>> 140,000 miles. The seat frame also broke and had to be replaced for
>> an MOT. Of course I'm not sure what treatment it had before I bought
>> it at 90,000 miles.
> 
> I reckon all main dealer parts departments should sell a combined
> package of driver's seat and steering wheel, for those running their
> cars for a very long time.  Recommended replacement interval would be
> 10 years or 300,000 miles, whichever is sooner.
> 

There should be a service indicator, governed by sensors measuring the 
weight and size of arse sitting on the seat ;-)


-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4d93226912dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
> > > It seems robust. Mine's a Steptronic, and it's a bit of a nine days
> > > wonder. The normal auto function is so good there's little point in
> > > over-riding it. Not that you can anyway - it will still change up or
> > > down when in Steptronic mode if you try and go outside the normal
> > > speed limit for those gears.
> > >
> > I suppose it could be useful to initiate a downchange immediately before
> > overtaking or beginning a very steep ascent?
>
> Just use kickdown for the first if in a hurry, and it does this
> automatically anyway for the second - some kind of incline sensor, IIRC.
> If the car's on the overrun and speeding up while going downhill, touch
> the brakes and it drops a gear or two.
>
> > I've decided to take a look at this tomorrow:
>
>

<http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/CARS_popup.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search
_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=528&keywords=&min_pr=75&max_
pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=40&max_records=50&source=0&pho
to=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=4&distance=20&adcategory=CARS&chan
nel=CARS&id=200530201627643>

>
> See if that cures the wordwrap.


Or better still. :-)
http://tinyurl.com/9retj
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42eced2a$0$83704$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A49A778379Anobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
> 
>>
>> I've decided to take a look at this tomorrow:
>>
>> http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/CARS_popup.asp?modelexact=1
>> &lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=528
>> &keywords=&min_pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles
>> =40 
>> &max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=
>> 4 &distance=20&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200530201627643
> 
>> I'm thinking of getting a compression tester and insisting on
>> carrying out the test (if it looks worth buying). I would have to buy
>> the tester but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. Does
>> anyone know what readings and % variation I should expect?
>>
>> I will need some torx bits to remove the coil packs, yes? Any other
>> tools required and anything I need to do, apart from pulling the fuel
>> pump fuse, before testing?
> 
> I would be surprised if they allow you to do that. As you realise,
> it's not a straight plugs out, screw in the guage and give the starter
> a whirl. He doesn't know you from Adam, so from his POV you could
> bugger it up. Again from his POV, why should he. At that price I don't
> think he'll have much trouble selling it just as it stands.
> In any case if 1 or 2 cylinders are low on compression, you can
> usually tell by the way an engine starts and ticks over. If they're
> all low, no doubt it will be burning oil, and be low on power.
> It should tick over as steady as a rock. Maybe with just a very faint
> tappet noise, (you can hear the tappets on mine when it starts from
> cold, but it's nothing to worry about. AFAIC my engine is perfect) and
> the exhaust pipe is clean, the chances are that the engine is fine.
> Mike.
> 
> 


Well, he's advertised it as no offers, so no haggling to be done. By the 
time I'd want to do the test, I'd be in a position to explain that if it 
tested good I would definitely buy it. Could even offer him a refundable 
deposit as insurance against damage.

It has a new MOT so at least I know the CATs are OK (no feline jibes, 
please) :-). I gather they are very expensive to replace on these cars -
663 for the main one at eurocarparts!

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

	[...]


> It's interesting that it has a sunroof and climate control. Cars without
> climate control could have one, but not normally those with, although I
> suppose it could be specified. There's no pic of the dash to see if it
> really does have climate control.


Both my E38 and E39 have electric tilt sunroofs and climate control,
it's standard on 740s.


> Fixing a scratch which has gone through the clear coat is likely to mean
> re-spraying that panel.


ChipsAway or the like will do a good job for <50




A

>>> The cloth driver's seat on my E34 was showing signs of wear at
>>> 140,000 miles. The seat frame also broke and had to be replaced for
>>> an MOT. Of course I'm not sure what treatment it had before I bought
>>> it at 90,000 miles.
>>
>> I reckon all main dealer parts departments should sell a combined
>> package of driver's seat and steering wheel, for those running their
>> cars for a very long time.  Recommended replacement interval would be
>> 10 years or 300,000 miles, whichever is sooner.
>>
> There should be a service indicator, governed by sensors measuring the
> weight and size of arse sitting on the seat ;-)


And the number of times the seat's been got in and out of.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

Stu wrote:

> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in 
> news:4d931cd139dave@davenoise.co.uk:

	[...]

> I suppose it could be useful to initiate a downchange immediately
> before overtaking or beginning a very steep ascent?


I find I use mine as a pre-emptive kickdown for developing overtakes and
occasionally to hold a gear in hilly and twisty B-road blasting...

Mostly, as Dave says, the gearbox gets it right.  :)


> I've decided to take a look at this tomorrow:
> 
> http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/CARS_popup.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=5+SERIES&variant=528&keywords=&min_pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=s71+5ha&miles=40&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH&start=4&distance=20&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200530201627643


aka: http://tinyurl.com/9retj


> A bit dear for me but cheap for what it is. I've phoned up and got
> the price confirmed (because it's advertised again for 100 more).
> Have also confirmed that all it's features are in GWO. Not holding my
> breath about the condition but must be worth a look, if only to get
> an experience of driving one. Only bad thing I know about so far is 4
> previous owners, but this isn't unusual on a 9 year old car.


It looks OK, and you get to try it. :)

If you're not used to RWD it might feel a little strange - the steering
should be communicative without being intrusive and the throttle will
let you adjust balance without tugging at the wheel, the handling should
be sports car sharp thanks to the trick aluminium suspension and there
should be no crashing or knocking over bumps...


> I'm thinking of getting a compression tester and insisting on
> carrying out the test (if it looks worth buying). I would have to buy
> the tester but I think it's worth it for the peace of mind. Does
> anyone know what readings and % variation I should expect?


Overkill IMO as high sulphur petrol hasn't been about for years any
affected motors will be long dead.  If it idles smoothly and pulls like
a train it should be fine.




A

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> >> I will need some torx bits to remove the coil packs, yes? Any other
> >> tools required and anything I need to do, apart from pulling the fuel
> >> pump fuse, before testing?
> > 
> > Dunno  - I've not done one.
> > 
> Ah, yes - you're sensnibly maintaining your service history, aren't you? 


Not anymore. Got thoroughly pissed off by my main dealer. Not just their
prices but appalling standards. But in any case I did non 'stamp' related
things like brakes,etc, myself anyway.

No need to check compressions unless a fault was noted. And I've got a
code reader anyway.

-- 
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <42ecf0fc$0$66073$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
   Mike G  wrote:

> Or better still. :-)
> http://tinyurl.com/9retj


Bit of a worry when a dealer says it's got Tiptronic. ;-)

-- 
*Why do psychics have to ask you for your name? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Stu  wrote:


> Any other BMW quirks I should be aware of or does the normal car inspection
> stuff apply?
> 
> BTW, there's a '96 525SE manual in autotrader 120k, SH described as 'good'
> at 2850. Is this too much or would it be worth it in the right condition?


Don't. It'll be worth about 500 in a couple of years.

They're seriously out of favour these days - relegated to drug dealer /
bouncer / pub landlord / dole bludger status now.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in
news:4d9330e7bddave@davenoise.co.uk: 


> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
>> >> I will need some torx bits to remove the coil packs, yes? Any
>> >> other tools required and anything I need to do, apart from pulling
>> >> the fuel pump fuse, before testing?
>> > 
>> > Dunno  - I've not done one.
>> > 
>> Ah, yes - you're sensnibly maintaining your service history, aren't
>> you? 
> 
> Not anymore. Got thoroughly pissed off by my main dealer. Not just
> their prices but appalling standards. But in any case I did non
> 'stamp' related things like brakes,etc, myself anyway.
> 
> No need to check compressions unless a fault was noted. And I've got a
> code reader anyway.
> 

General opinion seems to be it's overkill - a problem should show itself 
via normal warning signs.

Handy to have a code reader. Does it reset the service indicator, too? How 
much did it set you back?


-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in 
news:4d93311e3ddave@davenoise.co.uk:


> In article <42ecf0fc$0$66073$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
>    Mike G  wrote:
>> Or better still. :-)
>> http://tinyurl.com/9retj
> 
> Bit of a worry when a dealer says it's got Tiptronic. ;-)
> 


Tiptronic, steptronic, whatever. I'm sure he knows what he's referring to 
:-)

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu  wrote in
news:Xns96A4C05356C7Dnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144: 


> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in 
> news:4d93311e3ddave@davenoise.co.uk:
> 
>> In article <42ecf0fc$0$66073$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
>>    Mike G  wrote:
>>> Or better still. :-)
>>> http://tinyurl.com/9retj
>> 
>> Bit of a worry when a dealer says it's got Tiptronic. ;-)
>> 
> 
> Tiptronic, steptronic, whatever. I'm sure he knows what he's referring
> to 
>:-)
> 


Heh....just done another autotrader search for 5 series <10 years. 16 
matches for 'tiptronic' :-)

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

	[...]


> Heh....just done another autotrader search for 5 series <10 years. 16
> matches for 'tiptronic' :-)


Tiptronic is to auto with manual override what hoover is to vacuum
cleaner.  :)




A

In article <2dmvr2-pat.ln1@florin.fluffy>,
   Alistair J Murray  wrote:

> > Heh....just done another autotrader search for 5 series <10 years. 16
> > matches for 'tiptronic' :-)

> Tiptronic is to auto with manual override what hoover is to vacuum
> cleaner.  :)


Not to a BMW owner. ;-)

-- 
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> > Not anymore. Got thoroughly pissed off by my main dealer. Not just
> > their prices but appalling standards. But in any case I did non
> > 'stamp' related things like brakes,etc, myself anyway.
> > 
> > No need to check compressions unless a fault was noted. And I've got a
> > code reader anyway.
> > 
> General opinion seems to be it's overkill - a problem should show itself
> via normal warning signs.


I'd say so - given the problem fuel hasn't been on sale for many years.
And wasn't on sale everywhere anyway.


> Handy to have a code reader. Does it reset the service indicator, too?
> How much did it set you back?


I've got the Peake Research one which cost $150 (yes dollars) and does
re-set the service indicator too. Saved its cost when it diagnosed a
faulty crank position sensor. 60 quid for a new one and a easy job to fit
as opposed to about 300 quid at a dealer.

-- 
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4d935195bddave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
> > > Not anymore. Got thoroughly pissed off by my main dealer. Not just
> > > their prices but appalling standards. But in any case I did non
> > > 'stamp' related things like brakes,etc, myself anyway.
> > >
> > > No need to check compressions unless a fault was noted. And I've got a
> > > code reader anyway.
> > >
> > General opinion seems to be it's overkill - a problem should show itself
> > via normal warning signs.
>
> I'd say so - given the problem fuel hasn't been on sale for many years.
> And wasn't on sale everywhere anyway.
>
> > Handy to have a code reader. Does it reset the service indicator, too?
> > How much did it set you back?
>
> I've got the Peake Research one which cost $150 (yes dollars) and does
> re-set the service indicator too.


Snap!
I've got a Peake code reader as well. I was lucky. Paid $65 inc postage from
a guy in the USA who had no futher use for it. At that price I couldn't say
no.
I've only used it once. It told me my car had no faults :-)
Mike.

Pete M wrote:

	[...]


> Do the right thing, buy a W124 Mercedes instead.


Wondrous as a 300-24 or 320 of some description might be their all
beginning to get a little long in the tooth...

http://tinyurl.com/dooqb could be nice tho'



A

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <2dmvr2-pat.ln1@florin.fluffy>, Alistair J Murray
>  wrote:
> 
>>> Heh....just done another autotrader search for 5 series <10
>>> years. 16 matches for 'tiptronic' :-)
> 
>> Tiptronic is to auto with manual override what hoover is to vacuum 
>> cleaner.  :)
> 
> Not to a BMW owner. ;-)


Nor us Switchtronic using ALPINA drivers. :)

Dealers tend to say "Tiptronic" or "F1 style" for anything auto/manual
or with steering wheel controls...



A

"Alistair J Murray"  wrote in message
news:4f40s2-gg3.ln1@florin.fluffy...

> Pete M wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Do the right thing, buy a W124 Mercedes instead.
>
> Wondrous as a 300-24 or 320 of some description might be their all
> beginning to get a little long in the tooth...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/dooqb could be nice tho'


Seems expensive for a K reg'd car though. Especially when compared to a
similar spec BMW.
Mike.

In article , Dave Plowman (News) 
says...


> There don't appear to be any common issues. ABS sensor failures - as on
> any car - and occasional cam and crank position sensors. All easy DIY and
> won't break the bank.


The only other is the LKM module for the headlights. Occassionally 
you'll find they don;t work. Its merely a case of removing it, taking 
the PCB out of the casing and resoldering all the relay joints on the 
board.


-- 
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room 
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

Conor  wrote in
news:MPG.1d5840c45ea0e94b98a58f@news.individual.net: 


> In article , Dave Plowman (News) 
> says...
> 
>> There don't appear to be any common issues. ABS sensor failures - as
>> on any car - and occasional cam and crank position sensors. All easy
>> DIY and won't break the bank.
> 
> The only other is the LKM module for the headlights. Occassionally 
> you'll find they don;t work. Its merely a case of removing it, taking 
> the PCB out of the casing and resoldering all the relay joints on the 
> board.
> 
> 

I've read about this in an earlier post. Nice bit of inside info, thanks.



-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Mike G"  wrote in news:42ee178d$0$23726$892e7fe2
@authen.white.readfreenews.net:


> 
> "Alistair J Murray"  wrote in message
> news:4f40s2-gg3.ln1@florin.fluffy...
>> Pete M wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > Do the right thing, buy a W124 Mercedes instead.
>>
>> Wondrous as a 300-24 or 320 of some description might be their all
>> beginning to get a little long in the tooth...
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/dooqb could be nice tho'
> 
> Seems expensive for a K reg'd car though. Especially when compared to a
> similar spec BMW.
> Mike.
> 
> 
> 

Although I appreciate the suggestion, a Mercedes would not be to my 
liking. I have a reason for this, based on experience rather than 
prejudice: I've done most of my driving miles in a van, and every single 
Mercedes driver I've ever encountered on the road (apart from the wagons) 
has treated my in an ignorant and supercilious manner. I must emphasise 
that this is NOT prejudice, it is my own experience. NO Mercedes car 
driver has EVER let me in or out, and the vast majority of them go out of 
their way not to (i.e. accelerating the instant I indicate to change 
lanes etc). I do not have a complex about this, it is pure fact.

Sincere apologies to any Merc drivers who feel offended by these 
comments.  I don't hate you all and I do have the intelligence to know 
that you're not all obnoxious people. I really, really have had bad 
experience with Merc drivers, though :-(

Anyway, all that was just to explain that I don't want one.

BTW, a lot of BMW drivers are as bad, but not quite so many :-)




-- 
Stuart Sharp

Mike G wrote:

> "Alistair J Murray"  wrote in message 
> news:4f40s2-gg3.ln1@florin.fluffy...

	[...]

>> Wondrous as a 300-24 or 320 of some description might be their all 
>> beginning to get a little long in the tooth...
>> 
>> http://tinyurl.com/dooqb could be nice tho'
> 
> Seems expensive for a K reg'd car though. Especially when compared to
> a similar spec BMW.


I'd say BMWs are far too cheap and W124s only a little too cheap.

Think how little Mundano or Fecdtra you get for 3k...

....also, we need to pump up the residuals on our cars. ;)




A

Stu  wrote in
news:Xns96A4A9424226Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144: 


> Well I'm going to look at an E39 tomorrow, described as 'beautiful 
> condition throughout.' I've rang the dealer and asked "Are all the
> cars features in good working order," to which he replied "Yes." Has
> done 140k with FSH, is fully loaded and he wants 3195, no offers and
> no p/x. Now, I've done some checking on autotrader, and if this car
> isn't a bargain then he's being *very* economical with the truth, if
> not dishonest! 
> 
> I'm not holding my breath, but you never know. I'm happy to be going
> just to get a drive of one :-)
> 


Bugger! I rang for directions this lunchtime and he'd just sold it :-( I 
feel a bit sick, now, because I thought the price was too good for the car 
to be genuine, hence I didn't rush down at the weekend. Now I feel 
tormented by the possibility of having missed a genuinely good deal because  
of my own apprehension :-(

Of course there's others, but they're all more expensive. Thing is I want 
the E39 now, but it's right at the limit of my finances. The E34 now feels 
like a compromise. I'm starting to think about the possibility of picking 
one up at auction.  I suppose finding the right one would be rather like a 
needle in a haystack?

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu  wrote in
news:Xns96A4A7CFEE6Dnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144: 


> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42ece3fc$0$66073$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 
>> 
>> Personally I wouldn't be so ready to dismiss the green '96 525iSE.
>> I think you might be reading too much into the sellers responses.
>> As for his other cars being sheds, he possibly only deals in low
>> price cars. No reason to suspect he's an Arthur Daley IMO, but it's
>> your dollar. At the right price it could still be a good buy. Looks
>> like a very straight car to me if the pics are anything to go by, and
>> it does have a FSH. The a/c does work, if not as well as it should,
>> and as far as the missing piece of trim that Alistair mentioned, I
>> know the piece he's referring to Even if it is missing it's no big
>> deal. 5 mins to fit a new piece if it's just been knocked off the
>> clips. 60-70 to get the a/c regassed.
>> 
>> As for a 528i E39, don't forget the slightly cheaper one in
>> Autotrader at 2995. Metallic dark green again. 32 miles away.
>> Mike.
>> 
> 
> I still have the guy's phone number. I'll give him a ring tomorrow -
> can't hurt can it? If the E39 I'm going to see turns out to be a wild
> goose chase, I could still make it back in time for a sneaky bid
> before the auction ends :-)
> 

I've just phoned the guy. Reckon I was wrong about him. He spoke with me 
for several minutes. He was absolutely polite and frank in describing the 
car to me. I really do believe he gave me the full 'warts n all' 
description (and it isn't bad at all). He's even said that he doesn't 
expect any winning Ebayers to part with their cash until they have driven 
the car he's selling and pronounced it satisfactory and as described. 
Story is he's an ex Vx mechanic and his father has a valeting business 
(hence the immaculate cleanliness of the car). They've recently entered a 
joint trading venture.

The description. Outside: very short scratch under N/S mirror, couple a 
light ones under the bootlid (thinks they'll cut out), small one above 
the fuel cap, couple of light ones round the drivers door lock. 
(Apparently, it does have remote locking, but someone must have preferred  
using the key). The front does have some stonechips, but most of these 
are of the tiny 'peppery) variety. He only picked out two larger ones and 
says those are about pinhead size.
Inside: A bit of sag in the driver's seat (you can actually tell this 
from the eBay photos), otherwise immaculate.
Mechanical: A/C works, can hear clutch engage, but not as cold as it 
could be. Low on gas, in his opinion. Everything else works. No faults 
detectable by driving it, smooth, shifts up & down normally, no clunks, 
no rattles, no vibration, no judder.

There is just one fault, which may or may not be a problem: The computer 
display displays an error message indicating some kind of brake light 
circuit fault. He described it in an email as below:

there are no mechanical defects only a C.C. warning stating " EDS Regelt 
" which is a brake light circuit warning which has been sorted .... - 
slight corrosion on one contact

It has not actually been sorted but he's been on the forums (BMW were no 
help) and seen posts from others with the exact same error. Apparently, 
it is cause by a bad earth or a faulty brake light switch, but he hasn't 
got round to tracing it yet.

If anyone reading this has experience of this particular fault I would be 
ever so grateful to hear from them within the next couple of hours as I'm 
seriously thinking about bidding. Says the reserve is  1500 and he paid 
1250 for it. At this price, I feel it would be a good buy and a nice 
stop gap until I can more comfortably afford to buy an E39. It may even 
sell for the same price after a year!

Of course, I won't be bidding very high, because in my heart I now want 
an E39 and I don't want to sell myself short! This one is now a short 
term ownership prospect :-)
-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

> Stu  wrote in 
> news:Xns96A4A9424226Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144:

	[...]

>> I'm not holding my breath, but you never know. I'm happy to be
>> going just to get a drive of one :-)
>>
> Bugger! I rang for directions this lunchtime and he'd just sold it
> :-(


Bummer. :(


> I feel a bit sick, now, because I thought the price was too good for
> the car to be genuine, hence I didn't rush down at the weekend. Now I
> feel tormented by the possibility of having missed a genuinely good
> deal because of my own apprehension :-(


It did look a good deal too.

Although the cars you are looking for are too old to hit main dealer
forecourts it might be worth telling them what you're looking for so
they can point suitable trade-ins in your direction.  BMW dealers vary
widely in quality so it's a good opportunity to size up the local ones
too...




A

Stu  wrote in
news:Xns96A5B0D15EA44nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144: 


>> 

> The description. Outside: very short scratch under N/S mirror, couple
> a light ones under the bootlid (thinks they'll cut out), small one
> above the fuel cap, couple of light ones round the drivers door lock. 
> (Apparently, it does have remote locking, but someone must have
> preferred  using the key). The front does have some stonechips, but
> most of these are of the tiny 'peppery) variety. He only picked out
> two larger ones and says those are about pinhead size.
> Inside: A bit of sag in the driver's seat (you can actually tell this 
> from the eBay photos), otherwise immaculate.
> Mechanical: A/C works, can hear clutch engage, but not as cold as it 
> could be. Low on gas, in his opinion. Everything else works. No faults
> detectable by driving it, smooth, shifts up & down normally, no
> clunks, no rattles, no vibration, no judder.


I forgot to mention, that missing bit of trim (near the rear wheel) had 
fallen off and has been glued back on.

For anybody who wants to recap, it's this:

http://tinyurl.com/aml3a

You'll notice I've caught on to the shortened URL thing. I know you all 
love it ;-)

-- 
Stuart Sharp

Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:j602s2-pdu.ln1
@florin.fluffy:


> Stu wrote:
>> Stu  wrote in 
>> news:Xns96A4A9424226Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144:
> 
>      [...]
> 
>>> I'm not holding my breath, but you never know. I'm happy to be
>>> going just to get a drive of one :-)
>>>
>> Bugger! I rang for directions this lunchtime and he'd just sold it
>> :-(
> 
> Bummer. :(
> 
>> I feel a bit sick, now, because I thought the price was too good for
>> the car to be genuine, hence I didn't rush down at the weekend. Now I
>> feel tormented by the possibility of having missed a genuinely good
>> deal because of my own apprehension :-(
> 
> It did look a good deal too.
> 
> Although the cars you are looking for are too old to hit main dealer
> forecourts it might be worth telling them what you're looking for so
> they can point suitable trade-ins in your direction.  BMW dealers vary
> widely in quality so it's a good opportunity to size up the local ones
> too...
> 
> 

That's a good idea and one I did think of this afternoon (honest) whilst 
attempting to console myself. Perhaps I'll give this a try, but I might 
just grab that green E34 on eBay, yet. I'm sure it would sell on in 12 
months, after which I would be in a stronger position to get the E39.

The guy selling it gave me an excellent description, he even found one more 
stamp in the service book, which he's not mentioned in the listing. The 
last recorded service was just 1,000 miles ago, done by the dealer that 
originally sold the car. It's had just two owners in almost ten years.




-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A5A567F14C8nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> Stu  wrote in
> news:Xns96A4A9424226Bnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144:
>
> > Well I'm going to look at an E39 tomorrow, described as 'beautiful
> > condition throughout.' I've rang the dealer and asked "Are all the
> > cars features in good working order," to which he replied "Yes." Has
> > done 140k with FSH, is fully loaded and he wants 3195, no offers and
> > no p/x. Now, I've done some checking on autotrader, and if this car
> > isn't a bargain then he's being *very* economical with the truth, if
> > not dishonest!
> >
> > I'm not holding my breath, but you never know. I'm happy to be going
> > just to get a drive of one :-)
> >
>
> Bugger! I rang for directions this lunchtime and he'd just sold it :-( I
> feel a bit sick, now, because I thought the price was too good for the car
> to be genuine, hence I didn't rush down at the weekend. Now I feel
> tormented by the possibility of having missed a genuinely good deal
because
> of my own apprehension :-(
>
> Of course there's others, but they're all more expensive.


Except the '97 528i SE Aoto at 2995 I mentioned. 32 miles away.
Have you forgotten it?

Take a tip from me. If you find what sounds like a good deal. Don't hang
about. Get on your bike and see it as soon as possible.
I baught my SD1 Vitesse when it was under 3 years old. I saw the ad, got
straight on the phone and got a promise from the guy that he would hold it
for me for 2 hours. The time it would take to get there. Saw it, gave the
guy a deposit, and picked it up a few days later. Apparently I was the first
to reply. Between me paying a deposit and picking it up, he'd had about 14
calls.Some offering to pay more than the asking price when they found it was
already sold.
The guy did the decent thing and kept his word, and I got a bargain.

 Thing is I want

> the E39 now, but it's right at the limit of my finances. The E34 now feels

> like a compromise. I'm starting to think about the possibility of picking
> one up at auction.


You're apprehensive about buying from a dealer, yet you're thinking about
buying at an auction?
Mike.


  I suppose finding the right one would be rather like a

> needle in a haystack?
>
> -- 
> Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A5B6000D715nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> Stu  wrote in
> news:Xns96A5B0D15EA44nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144:
>
> >>
>
> > The description. Outside: very short scratch under N/S mirror, couple
> > a light ones under the bootlid (thinks they'll cut out), small one
> > above the fuel cap, couple of light ones round the drivers door lock.
> > (Apparently, it does have remote locking, but someone must have
> > preferred  using the key). The front does have some stonechips, but
> > most of these are of the tiny 'peppery) variety. He only picked out
> > two larger ones and says those are about pinhead size.
> > Inside: A bit of sag in the driver's seat (you can actually tell this
> > from the eBay photos), otherwise immaculate.
> > Mechanical: A/C works, can hear clutch engage, but not as cold as it
> > could be. Low on gas, in his opinion. Everything else works. No faults
> > detectable by driving it, smooth, shifts up & down normally, no
> > clunks, no rattles, no vibration, no judder.
>
> I forgot to mention, that missing bit of trim (near the rear wheel) had
> fallen off and has been glued back on.
>
> For anybody who wants to recap, it's this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/aml3a
>
> You'll notice I've caught on to the shortened URL thing. I know you all
> love it ;-)


My guess is that it will reach at least 1800-1900, in last minute bids by
snipers.:-)
Sounds too nice to go for less.
Mike.

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A5A33F96167nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in news:42ee178d$0$23726$892e7fe2
> @authen.white.readfreenews.net:
>
> >
> > "Alistair J Murray"  wrote in message
> > news:4f40s2-gg3.ln1@florin.fluffy...
> >> Pete M wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> > Do the right thing, buy a W124 Mercedes instead.
> >>
> >> Wondrous as a 300-24 or 320 of some description might be their all
> >> beginning to get a little long in the tooth...
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/dooqb could be nice tho'
> >
> > Seems expensive for a K reg'd car though. Especially when compared to a
> > similar spec BMW.
> > Mike.
> >
> >
> >
> Although I appreciate the suggestion, a Mercedes would not be to my
> liking. I have a reason for this, based on experience rather than
> prejudice: I've done most of my driving miles in a van, and every single
> Mercedes driver I've ever encountered on the road (apart from the wagons)
> has treated my in an ignorant and supercilious manner. I must emphasise
> that this is NOT prejudice, it is my own experience. NO Mercedes car
> driver has EVER let me in or out, and the vast majority of them go out of
> their way not to (i.e. accelerating the instant I indicate to change
> lanes etc). I do not have a complex about this, it is pure fact.
>
> Sincere apologies to any Merc drivers who feel offended by these
> comments.  I don't hate you all and I do have the intelligence to know
> that you're not all obnoxious people. I really, really have had bad
> experience with Merc drivers, though :-(
>
> Anyway, all that was just to explain that I don't want one.
>
> BTW, a lot of BMW drivers are as bad, but not quite so many :-)


I'm not a stereotypical BMW driver.
Just an ordinary driver who happens to drive a BMW.:-)
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ee56f1$0$16210$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A5A567F14C8nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

>> Bugger! I rang for directions this lunchtime and he'd just sold it
>> :-( I feel a bit sick, now, because I thought the price was too good
>> for the car to be genuine, hence I didn't rush down at the weekend.
>> Now I feel tormented by the possibility of having missed a genuinely
>> good deal 
> because
>> of my own apprehension :-(
>>
>> Of course there's others, but they're all more expensive.
> 
> Except the '97 528i SE Aoto at 2995 I mentioned. 32 miles away.
> Have you forgotten it?


No I haven't. It just seems too good to be true. A couple of things ring 
alarm bells: 1) The wheels don't look standard 2)No mention of SH, 
mileage or condition. There should be. But yes, it does have an MOT and a 
good spec (particulary like the sound of the interior/exterior colour 
combination) and I'm stupid not to have at least called about it.

> 
> Take a tip from me. If you find what sounds like a good deal. Don't
> hang about. Get on your bike and see it as soon as possible.
> I baught my SD1 Vitesse when it was under 3 years old. I saw the ad,
> got straight on the phone and got a promise from the guy that he would
> hold it for me for 2 hours. The time it would take to get there. Saw
> it, gave the guy a deposit, and picked it up a few days later.
> Apparently I was the first to reply. Between me paying a deposit and
> picking it up, he'd had about 14 calls.Some offering to pay more than
> the asking price when they found it was already sold.
> The guy did the decent thing and kept his word, and I got a bargain.
> 

I hear you. I'll make sure I ring about the black one tomorrow.


>  Thing is I want
>> the E39 now, but it's right at the limit of my finances. The E34 now
>> feels 
> 
>> like a compromise. I'm starting to think about the possibility of
>> picking one up at auction.
> 
> You're apprehensive about buying from a dealer, yet you're thinking
> about buying at an auction?
>

Must admit, never bought at auction. Do realise it can be risky but 
otherwise totally ignorant. Theory was that the cars there may be more 
affordable and would leave me some budget for sorting out minor niggles. 
That is, after all, how dealers are able to make a profit, is it not?
Wouldn't buy without at least seeing service history, looking under the 
bonnet and starting it up, but I know that there's thousands of potential 
faults that those brief checks would not eliminate. I think sniffing 
around main dealers for P/Xs is a better idea.

> 
> 
>   I suppose finding the right one would be rather like a
>> needle in a haystack?
>>
>> -- 


-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

> Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:j602s2-pdu.ln1
>  @florin.fluffy:

	[...]

>> Although the cars you are looking for are too old to hit main
>> dealer forecourts it might be worth telling them what you're
>> looking for so they can point suitable trade-ins in your direction.
>> BMW dealers vary widely in quality so it's a good opportunity to
>> size up the local ones too...
>> 
> That's a good idea and one I did think of this afternoon (honest)
> whilst attempting to console myself. 


Great minds etc...  ;)


> Perhaps I'll give this a try,
> but I might just grab that green E34 on eBay, yet. I'm sure it would
> sell on in 12 months, after which I would be in a stronger position
> to get the E39.


2k or less and you can't really lose...


> The guy selling it gave me an excellent description, he even found
> one more stamp in the service book, which he's not mentioned in the
> listing. The last recorded service was just 1,000 miles ago, done by
> the dealer that originally sold the car. It's had just two owners in
> almost ten years.


People only keep cars they like - good sign,  maybe worth another couple
of hundred..?

Good luck, hope you get it!



A

Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:bp42s2-vj.ln1
@florin.fluffy:


> Stu wrote:
>> Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:j602s2-pdu.ln1
>>  @florin.fluffy:
> 
>      [...]
> 
>>> Although the cars you are looking for are too old to hit main
>>> dealer forecourts it might be worth telling them what you're
>>> looking for so they can point suitable trade-ins in your direction.
>>> BMW dealers vary widely in quality so it's a good opportunity to
>>> size up the local ones too...
>>> 
>> That's a good idea and one I did think of this afternoon (honest)
>> whilst attempting to console myself. 
> 
> Great minds etc...  ;)
> 
>> Perhaps I'll give this a try,
>> but I might just grab that green E34 on eBay, yet. I'm sure it would
>> sell on in 12 months, after which I would be in a stronger position
>> to get the E39.
> 
> 2k or less and you can't really lose...
> 
>> The guy selling it gave me an excellent description, he even found
>> one more stamp in the service book, which he's not mentioned in the
>> listing. The last recorded service was just 1,000 miles ago, done by
>> the dealer that originally sold the car. It's had just two owners in
>> almost ten years.
> 
> People only keep cars they like - good sign,  maybe worth another 
couple
> of hundred..?
> 

I think you're right, but I really want an E39 now, so if I'm not getting 
it unless it comes cheap, cheap enough to be sold on for the same amount 
in another year. I'm signed in & waiting for the shootout in the last 5 
minutes. Make your mind up time on the bid price :-/


> Good luck, hope you get it!
> 

Thanks, mate :-)

> 
> 
> A
> 




-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A5BF44E9B62nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42ee56f1$0$16210$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net:
>
> >
> > "Stu"  wrote in message
> > news:Xns96A5A567F14C8nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>
> >> Bugger! I rang for directions this lunchtime and he'd just sold it
> >> :-( I feel a bit sick, now, because I thought the price was too good
> >> for the car to be genuine, hence I didn't rush down at the weekend.
> >> Now I feel tormented by the possibility of having missed a genuinely
> >> good deal
> > because
> >> of my own apprehension :-(
> >>
> >> Of course there's others, but they're all more expensive.
> >
> > Except the '97 528i SE Aoto at 2995 I mentioned. 32 miles away.
> > Have you forgotten it?
>
> No I haven't. It just seems too good to be true. A couple of things ring
> alarm bells: 1) The wheels don't look standard 2)


Maybe they're not std, but there is a vast range of genuine BMW wheels.
Changing the std wheels is quite common on BM's, so I wouldn't regard it as
anything significant, even if they're not OE. TBH I can't tell either way.
BTW my car has non std wheels. It has 17" M-tech wheels instead of the std
15" wheels.

No mention of SH,

> mileage or condition. There should be. But yes, it does have an MOT and a
> good spec (particulary like the sound of the interior/exterior colour
> combination) and I'm stupid not to have at least called about it.


Yup. Certainly worth a call IMO.
Mike.

"Stu"  wrote in message > For anybody who wants to recap,
it's this:

>
> http://tinyurl.com/aml3a
>
> You'll notice I've caught on to the shortened URL thing. I know you all


You got a bargain!
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ee6a7a$0$14693$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message > For anybody who wants to
> recap, it's this:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/aml3a
>>
>> You'll notice I've caught on to the shortened URL thing. I know you
>> all 
> 
> You got a bargain!
> Mike.
> 
> 

I reckon so. Can't believe it. Contacted the seller, I'm going for it on 
Friday and he's going to collect me from the train station!

What's more, his good atitude inspired me with enough confidence to enter 
a 1750 bid. Bearing in mind that he'd told other people about the 
reserve, I couldn't believe none of them were prepared to advance on it. 
Not even by a penny. Great buy (I hope :-) . It seems that many people 
get scared off by high-milers. Their loss, my gain :-) He's even going to 
have a look at that brake circuit fault for me. I was rather hoping Dave 
could shed some light on that. He seems to know his BMWs.

Time for a big thankyou to all you excellent people who stuck it out with 
me on this long-winded thread. You're fantastic! But don't think you've 
heard the last of me. I'll need to find out plenty more about this car if 
I'm going to look after it properly.

Doh! Just remembered......I've got to get the Primera sold now, and I've 
nowhere to put it..... ;-)

Thanks again, guys.

-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A5CB725EAB3nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42ee6a7a$0$14693$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net:
>
> >
> > "Stu"  wrote in message > For anybody who wants to
> > recap, it's this:
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/aml3a
> >>
> >> You'll notice I've caught on to the shortened URL thing. I know you
> >> all
> >
> > You got a bargain!
> > Mike.
> >
> >
> I reckon so. Can't believe it. Contacted the seller, I'm going for it on
> Friday and he's going to collect me from the train station!


Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and foot.
Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily reach the pedals.
:-)

>
> What's more, his good atitude inspired me with enough confidence to enter
> a 1750 bid. Bearing in mind that he'd told other people about the
> reserve, I couldn't believe none of them were prepared to advance on it.
> Not even by a penny. Great buy (I hope :-) . It seems that many people
> get scared off by high-milers. Their loss, my gain :-) He's even going to
> have a look at that brake circuit fault for me. I was rather hoping Dave
> could shed some light on that. He seems to know his BMWs.


Not a fault I've heard of. I've got the Bentley w/s manual for the 5 series.
I'll see if there's anything in there about 'EDS Regelt'.


> Time for a big thankyou to all you excellent people who stuck it out with
> me on this long-winded thread. You're fantastic! But don't think you've
> heard the last of me. I'll need to find out plenty more about this car if
> I'm going to look after it properly.
>
> Doh! Just remembered......I've got to get the Primera sold now, and I've
> nowhere to put it..... ;-)


Park it in the road and make it a 2-3 day sale on Ebay.
Buyer to take possession quickly.:-)
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ee7898$0$3485$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A5CB725EAB3nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> "Mike G"  wrote in
>> news:42ee6a7a$0$14693$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net:
>>
>> >
>> > "Stu"  wrote in message > For anybody who wants to
>> > recap, it's this:
>> >>
>> >> http://tinyurl.com/aml3a
>> >>
>> >> You'll notice I've caught on to the shortened URL thing. I know
>> >> you all
>> >
>> > You got a bargain!
>> > Mike.
>> >
>> >
>> I reckon so. Can't believe it. Contacted the seller, I'm going for it
>> on Friday and he's going to collect me from the train station!
> 
> Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and
> foot. Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily reach
> the pedals. 
>:-)


HeHe..it's all motorway work, so I hope I'll just be using the one pedal 
(to maintain a sensible speed, of course :-) Gonna love the auto if I hit 
some traffic, though :-)

>>
>> What's more, his good atitude inspired me with enough confidence to
>> enter a 1750 bid. Bearing in mind that he'd told other people about
>> the reserve, I couldn't believe none of them were prepared to advance
>> on it. Not even by a penny. Great buy (I hope :-) . It seems that
>> many people get scared off by high-milers. Their loss, my gain :-)
>> He's even going to have a look at that brake circuit fault for me. I
>> was rather hoping Dave could shed some light on that. He seems to
>> know his BMWs. 
> 
> Not a fault I've heard of. I've got the Bentley w/s manual for the 5
> series. I'll see if there's anything in there about 'EDS Regelt'.


Cheers, Mike. BTW, I've looked at those manuals and they seem quite 
expensive. Is there any decent alternative available cheaper? No HBOL for 
this particular model/year.

> 
>> Time for a big thankyou to all you excellent people who stuck it out
>> with me on this long-winded thread. You're fantastic! But don't think
>> you've heard the last of me. I'll need to find out plenty more about
>> this car if I'm going to look after it properly.
>>
>> Doh! Just remembered......I've got to get the Primera sold now, and
>> I've nowhere to put it..... ;-)
> 
> Park it in the road and make it a 2-3 day sale on Ebay.
> Buyer to take possession quickly.:-)


I'd like the best price for it really. Autotrader say 2318, Glass's just 
give a retail value of 3010 but only 1600 if I were trading it in. But 
there's no SH after the first two years, after which I bought it and 
lovingly maintained it by my own fair hand. Don't think that'll wash with 
the punters, though :-(

> 

It's virtually impossible to park on the road without blocking someone 
else's house off, as we live right at the end of the street, within the 
turning area bit. Might be able to stick it in the works car park if I 
speak nicely to the gatekeeper. It's only a mile from where I live, so no 
problem to fetch it home for a punter, sticking the Beemer up the road 
for the duration of the visit. 



-- 
Stuart Sharp

Stu wrote:

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42ee6a7a$0$14693$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net: 

	[...]

>>You got a bargain!


Nice one indeed!  :)


> I reckon so. Can't believe it. Contacted the seller, I'm going for it on 
> Friday and he's going to collect me from the train station!


Excited?      ...*I* can hardly wait.

	[...]


> Time for a big thankyou to all you excellent people who stuck it out with 
> me on this long-winded thread. You're fantastic! But don't think you've 
> heard the last of me. I'll need to find out plenty more about this car if 
> I'm going to look after it properly.


It's always a pleasure to guide someone toward the True Path.  :)


> Doh! Just remembered......I've got to get the Primera sold now, and I've 
> nowhere to put it..... ;-)


Ebay?




A

"Stu"  wrote in message 
news:Xns96A5D59463FFFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

>> Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and
>> foot. Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily reach
>> the pedals.
>>:-)
>
> HeHe..it's all motorway work, so I hope I'll just be using the one pedal
> (to maintain a sensible speed, of course :-) Gonna love the auto if I hit
> some traffic, though :-)


The motorway's the easy bit - remember when you first pull away from a stop 
after you've left the motorway, and a couple of days later when you're in a 
hurry.

cheers,
clive

> > I reckon so. Can't believe it. Contacted the seller, I'm going for it on
> > Friday and he's going to collect me from the train station!
>
> Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and foot.
> Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily reach the
pedals.
> :-)


Just re-remember them when you come to get out of the car, or things could
get embarrassing.

Peter

> >> Doh! Just remembered......I've got to get the Primera sold now, and
> >> I've nowhere to put it..... ;-)
> >
> > Park it in the road and make it a 2-3 day sale on Ebay.
> > Buyer to take possession quickly.:-)
>
> I'd like the best price for it really. Autotrader say 2318, Glass's just
> give a retail value of 3010 but only 1600 if I were trading it in. But
> there's no SH after the first two years, after which I bought it and
> lovingly maintained it by my own fair hand. Don't think that'll wash with
> the punters, though :-(


Yes it will, you'll be fine.  Put it on ebay, being completely honest about
how often you've serviced, exactly what you've done and when, mentioning
that there's no formal service history but it has been cared for properly,
and also mention how reliable it's been in the years you've had it (assuming
it has!) - people like buying from genuine honest private sellers, and if
it's in genuine decent nick, people will see that.

Peter

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A5D59463FFFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42ee7898$0$3485$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net:
>
> >
> > "Stu"  wrote in message
> > news:Xns96A5CB725EAB3nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
> >> "Mike G"  wrote in
> >> news:42ee6a7a$0$14693$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "Stu"  wrote in message > For anybody who wants to
> >> > recap, it's this:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/aml3a
> >> >>
> >> >> You'll notice I've caught on to the shortened URL thing. I know
> >> >> you all
> >> >
> >> > You got a bargain!
> >> > Mike.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> I reckon so. Can't believe it. Contacted the seller, I'm going for it
> >> on Friday and he's going to collect me from the train station!
> >
> > Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and
> > foot. Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily reach
> > the pedals.
> >:-)
>
> HeHe..it's all motorway work, so I hope I'll just be using the one pedal
> (to maintain a sensible speed, of course :-) Gonna love the auto if I hit
> some traffic, though :-)
> >>
> >> What's more, his good atitude inspired me with enough confidence to
> >> enter a 1750 bid. Bearing in mind that he'd told other people about
> >> the reserve, I couldn't believe none of them were prepared to advance
> >> on it. Not even by a penny. Great buy (I hope :-) . It seems that
> >> many people get scared off by high-milers. Their loss, my gain :-)
> >> He's even going to have a look at that brake circuit fault for me. I
> >> was rather hoping Dave could shed some light on that. He seems to
> >> know his BMWs.
> >
> > Not a fault I've heard of. I've got the Bentley w/s manual for the 5
> > series. I'll see if there's anything in there about 'EDS Regelt'.
>
> Cheers, Mike. BTW, I've looked at those manuals and they seem quite
> expensive. Is there any decent alternative available cheaper? No HBOL for
> this particular model/year.


Haynes do one for the 5 series, but it only covers '81 to '91.
Whilst it's better than nothing, it's hardly worth buying for the later
E34's.
The Bentley one covers later cars. It is aimed at the US market. L/h drive
etc, but most the info is applicable to UK cars. Fairly expensive at 46.95
here:-

http://www.motormec.co.uk/e34.html

A cheaper and more complete alternative is CD's a few quid on eBay.


> >> Time for a big thankyou to all you excellent people who stuck it out
> >> with me on this long-winded thread. You're fantastic! But don't think
> >> you've heard the last of me. I'll need to find out plenty more about
> >> this car if I'm going to look after it properly.


Yes. that is problem. I must of spent at least a day of maintenance on my
car in the 18 months I've had it. The recent service, replaced a couple of
bulbs.
It does get a bit much sometimes.
Mike.

Alistair J Murray  wrote in
news:5s92s2-rs2.ln1@florin.fluffy: 


> Stu wrote:
>> "Mike G"  wrote in
>> news:42ee6a7a$0$14693$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net: 
> 
>      [...]
> 
>>>You got a bargain!
> 
> Nice one indeed!  :)
> 
>> I reckon so. Can't believe it. Contacted the seller, I'm going for it
>> on Friday and he's going to collect me from the train station!
> 
> Excited?      ...*I* can hardly wait.
> 
>      [...]


You'll get the full report once I've got it home :-)

> 
>> Time for a big thankyou to all you excellent people who stuck it out
>> with me on this long-winded thread. You're fantastic! But don't think
>> you've heard the last of me. I'll need to find out plenty more about
>> this car if I'm going to look after it properly.
> 
> It's always a pleasure to guide someone toward the True Path.  :)
> 

At that price, I'm now feeling much better about missing the E39. I know 
the chance of that will come. In the meantime, if I'm going to be 
converted to a BMW veteran, it's only fitting that I make the pilgrimage 
of owning the original 'ultimate driving machine' :-)


>> Doh! Just remembered......I've got to get the Primera sold now, and
>> I've nowhere to put it..... ;-)
> 
> Ebay?


I need a fair price for it to go towards my E39 fund. Having said that, 
who knows? I may grow to love my newly acquired E34 so much that I keep 
it for several years! Valuations indicate the Primera (98 GT, 51k) is 
worth about 2300, but I doubt that it'll fetch anything like that on 
eBay.

Not sure whether to remove the 17" alloys and sell 'em seperate or leave 
them on. I only got them because they improve grip (ony 195s as standard) 
and greatly enhance the appearance. OTOH, they may convey a 'Nova Boy' 
image to potential buyers. This is not the case. I've never modded any of 
my cars, not even when I was a 17 year old maniac.

It's disheartening: I've maintained the car lovingly for 5 years (oil 
change every 6 months, Coolant 2yrs, BF 2 years, F Filter at 40k, A/C 
filter 2 years, brakes brushed out annually, redline oil in gearbox, new 
hydraulic tensioner just to stop the brief chain rattle on startup). For 
all that effort, I'll probably get a below market price just because of 
the lack of a few stamps in the book. No dealer serviced car has ever had 
the same thorough care as mine!

I just have to keep reminding myself of all the money I've saved in 
garage labour charges. I hope it outweighs the loss in value.


-- 
Stuart Sharp

> At that price, I'm now feeling much better about missing the E39. I know
> the chance of that will come. In the meantime, if I'm going to be
> converted to a BMW veteran, it's only fitting that I make the pilgrimage
> of owning the original 'ultimate driving machine' :-)


Forget the E39, and start saving for an M6.  The old one, the proper one.
The M635CSi.


> I need a fair price for it to go towards my E39 fund. Having said that,
> who knows? I may grow to love my newly acquired E34 so much that I keep
> it for several years! Valuations indicate the Primera (98 GT, 51k) is
> worth about 2300, but I doubt that it'll fetch anything like that on
> eBay.
>
> Not sure whether to remove the 17" alloys and sell 'em seperate or leave
> them on. I only got them because they improve grip (ony 195s as standard)
> and greatly enhance the appearance. OTOH, they may convey a 'Nova Boy'
> image to potential buyers. This is not the case. I've never modded any of
> my cars, not even when I was a 17 year old maniac.


Might well be worth going back to the standard wheels if you've still got
them.


> It's disheartening: I've maintained the car lovingly for 5 years (oil
> change every 6 months, Coolant 2yrs, BF 2 years, F Filter at 40k, A/C
> filter 2 years, brakes brushed out annually, redline oil in gearbox, new
> hydraulic tensioner just to stop the brief chain rattle on startup). For
> all that effort, I'll probably get a below market price just because of
> the lack of a few stamps in the book. No dealer serviced car has ever had
> the same thorough care as mine!
>
> I just have to keep reminding myself of all the money I've saved in
> garage labour charges. I hope it outweighs the loss in value.


Stop it.  Now.  Just stop it!  Have you kept a notebook or some form of
record of all the things you've done?  Even if not, you can obviously
remember anyway.  Stop worrying.  You *will* get a decent price for your
car.  For the more discerning buyer, a properly owner-maintained car is
worth every bit as much as a full main dealer service historied one,
possibly more.  Seriously.

Peter

"AstraVanMan"  wrote in
news:XpvHe.12353$Aw4.4933@newsfe5-win.ntli.net: 


>> >> Doh! Just remembered......I've got to get the Primera sold now,
>> >> and I've nowhere to put it..... ;-)
>> >
>> > Park it in the road and make it a 2-3 day sale on Ebay.
>> > Buyer to take possession quickly.:-)
>>
>> I'd like the best price for it really. Autotrader say 2318, Glass's
>> just give a retail value of 3010 but only 1600 if I were trading it
>> in. But there's no SH after the first two years, after which I bought
>> it and lovingly maintained it by my own fair hand. Don't think
>> that'll wash with the punters, though :-(
> 
> Yes it will, you'll be fine.  Put it on ebay, being completely honest
> about how often you've serviced, exactly what you've done and when,
> mentioning that there's no formal service history but it has been
> cared for properly, and also mention how reliable it's been in the
> years you've had it (assuming it has!) - people like buying from
> genuine honest private sellers, and if it's in genuine decent nick,
> people will see that. 
> 
> Peter
> 
> 

TBH, I could list a few faults if I were being brutally honest, which is 
the style I prefer. They are:

-Slightly peppered front valance (poor paint on these cars)
-Very slight scuffs on the bonnet and drivers door. Have always been 
there - someone must have used some aggressive scratch remover on it. 
Only visible when spotlessly clean
-Bit of cracked paint on top of the rear bumper. Caused by a collision 
with an unseen bollard in B&Q warehouse.
-Slight paint bubble starting to appear under the rear spoiler.
-Couple of little chips on the rear spoiler, which I will touch in
- A wiggly scratch on the rear door, and a chip on the plastic trim. 
Scratch harder to spot since applying Farecla, but still there. Also a 
tiny dint on each side of the car. All of this has been done by ignorant, 
uncaring, low-life twats that frequent the local ASDA and every one has 
affected me like a personal injury. I HATE those bastards and i hate the 
supermarket run.
-Crack in the rear boot slam panel trim, cause by kneeling on it when 
unloading. Will try the scrappys for a replacement.
-The leather trim is crap. Bald spots on both front seats, steering wheel 
and gear stick. It's only done 51k, for god's sake!
-I fitted quality tweeters in the A pillars, but botched it. They don't 
look too clever. Going to remove the amps I added and replace the 
original stereo. There will be no trace left of non standard gear other 
than the bodged tweeters. Parcel shelf is unmolested. (BTW, this wasn't 
an insane system like a Saxo boy has, I just wanted good quality sound, 
but I lost interest in car audio systems ages ago).

Seems quite a bit, but that is literally every single cosmetic fault. 
Just spent half an hour racking my brain to think of them all. 
Mechanically, it's pretty damned good. Just a couple of minors:

-A rip in the undertray caused by some sort of deris, which also tore the 
CV boot! Boot was replaed immediately, but I left the undertray because 
the tear isn't affecting any rustproofing etc
-Battery terminals have started to fur up recently (original battery).
-Exhaust - not a fault at present, but it's gone through two mid-pipes 
during it's low miles. There seems to be a weak point right next to one 
of the flanges.

Other than that it's mechanically perfect. Not a single problem that 
affects the running of it, and that's got to count. The cosmetic issues 
sound like a lot, but I still reckon it's a pretty good car for the year.

Hope I can sell it before September as I'm off on holiday, then!



-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42ee8756$0$3475$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A5D59463FFFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> "Mike G"  wrote in
>> news:42ee7898$0$3485$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net:

>> > Not a fault I've heard of. I've got the Bentley w/s manual for the
>> > 5 series. I'll see if there's anything in there about 'EDS Regelt'.
>>
>> Cheers, Mike. BTW, I've looked at those manuals and they seem quite
>> expensive. Is there any decent alternative available cheaper? No HBOL
>> for this particular model/year.
> 
> Haynes do one for the 5 series, but it only covers '81 to '91.
> Whilst it's better than nothing, it's hardly worth buying for the
> later E34's.
> The Bentley one covers later cars. It is aimed at the US market. L/h
> drive etc, but most the info is applicable to UK cars. Fairly
> expensive at 46.95 here:-
> 
> http://www.motormec.co.uk/e34.html

Ouch :-/
> 
> A cheaper and more complete alternative is CD's a few quid on eBay.


That sounds more like it :-)

> 
>> >> Time for a big thankyou to all you excellent people who stuck it
>> >> out with me on this long-winded thread. You're fantastic! But
>> >> don't think you've heard the last of me. I'll need to find out
>> >> plenty more about this car if I'm going to look after it properly.
> 
> Yes. that is problem. I must of spent at least a day of maintenance on
> my car in the 18 months I've had it. The recent service, replaced a
> couple of bulbs.
> It does get a bit much sometimes.
> Mike.
> 
> LOL.....bloody German crap ;-)




-- 
Stuart Sharp

In article ,
   Stu  wrote:

> Although I appreciate the suggestion, a Mercedes would not be to my
> liking. I have a reason for this, based on experience rather than
> prejudice: I've done most of my driving miles in a van, and every single
> Mercedes driver I've ever encountered on the road (apart from the
> wagons) has treated my in an ignorant and supercilious manner. I must
> emphasise that this is NOT prejudice, it is my own experience. NO
> Mercedes car driver has EVER let me in or out, and the vast majority of
> them go out of their way not to (i.e. accelerating the instant I
> indicate to change lanes etc). I do not have a complex about this, it
> is pure fact.


Everyone else will have 'pure facts' about BMW drivers always using fog
lights, or Volvo drivers being asleep under their cloth caps, or Jaguar
drivers all being publicans. Etc.

But those 'pure facts' are all in the mind of the individual, and can
never be proved in practice.

Some mates in the pub went on about fog lights and BMWs, so I bet them
free drinks for the evening if they were right, and the reverse if not. So
we all sat outside and logged every car after dark driving down the busy
road. I got very pissed but with a full wallet. ;-)

I think it's down to cars which are instantly recognised. BMW and MB. The
others tend to get lumped together.

-- 
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in
news:4d93cdf68edave@davenoise.co.uk: 


> In article ,
>    Stu  wrote:
>> Although I appreciate the suggestion, a Mercedes would not be to my
>> liking. I have a reason for this, based on experience rather than
>> prejudice: I've done most of my driving miles in a van, and every
>> single Mercedes driver I've ever encountered on the road (apart from
>> the wagons) has treated my in an ignorant and supercilious manner. I
>> must emphasise that this is NOT prejudice, it is my own experience.
>> NO Mercedes car driver has EVER let me in or out, and the vast
>> majority of them go out of their way not to (i.e. accelerating the
>> instant I indicate to change lanes etc). I do not have a complex
>> about this, it is pure fact.
> 
> Everyone else will have 'pure facts' about BMW drivers always using
> fog lights, or Volvo drivers being asleep under their cloth caps, or
> Jaguar drivers all being publicans. Etc.
> 
> But those 'pure facts' are all in the mind of the individual, and can
> never be proved in practice.
> 
> Some mates in the pub went on about fog lights and BMWs, so I bet them
> free drinks for the evening if they were right, and the reverse if
> not. So we all sat outside and logged every car after dark driving
> down the busy road. I got very pissed but with a full wallet. ;-)
> 
> I think it's down to cars which are instantly recognised. BMW and MB.
> The others tend to get lumped together.
> 

You may well be right. I'm well aware that not all Merc drivers are 
baddies. It's a perception thing.


-- 
Stuart Sharp

AstraVanMan wrote:

>> At that price, I'm now feeling much better about missing the E39. I
>>  know the chance of that will come. In the meantime, if I'm going
>> to be converted to a BMW veteran, it's only fitting that I make the
>>  pilgrimage of owning the original 'ultimate driving machine' :-)
> 
> Forget the E39, and start saving for an M6.  The old one, the proper 
> one. The M635CSi.


Naaaah, this is the ultimate E24:

http://www.m5board.com/alpina/e24b7t.html

An E39 is going make a *much* better daily driver, lovely though it
would be to have a classic beemer...

I'd have an E9 3.0 CS[i,L] myself.  :)


>> I need a fair price for it to go towards my E39 fund. Having said 
>> that, who knows? I may grow to love my newly acquired E34 so much 
>> that I keep it for several years!


The E34 is a great car, I don't think it will be too painful waiting for
the perfect E39 - B10, M5, B10...


>> Valuations indicate the Primera (98 GT, 51k) is worth about 2300,
>> but I doubt that it'll fetch anything like that on eBay.


Fingers crossed.  It'll either struggle to hit reserve or go for lots is
my guess - all it needs is two people to take a shine to it...


>> Not sure whether to remove the 17" alloys and sell 'em seperate or 
>> leave them on. I only got them because they improve grip (ony 195s 
>> as standard) and greatly enhance the appearance. OTOH, they may 
>> convey a 'Nova Boy' image to potential buyers. This is not the 
>> case. I've never modded any of my cars, not even when I was a 17 
>> year old maniac.
> 
> Might well be worth going back to the standard wheels if you've still
> got them.


I'd split them if you have the original wheels *and* they have decent
tyres - I reckon iffy tyres will dampen interest in the car too much.

Not sure if offering the wheels as a fixed price extra would make
sense... Thoughts folks?


>> It's disheartening: I've maintained the car lovingly for 5 years 
>> (oil change every 6 months, Coolant 2yrs, BF 2 years, F Filter at 
>> 40k, A/C filter 2 years, brakes brushed out annually, redline oil 
>> in gearbox, new hydraulic tensioner just to stop the brief chain 
>> rattle on startup). For all that effort, I'll probably get a below 
>> market price just because of the lack of a few stamps in the book. 
>> No dealer serviced car has ever had the same thorough care as mine!
>> 
>> I just have to keep reminding myself of all the money I've saved in
>> garage labour charges. I hope it outweighs the loss in value.
>  
> Stop it.  Now.  Just stop it!  Have you kept a notebook or some form 
> of record of all the things you've done?  Even if not, you can 
> obviously remember anyway.  Stop worrying.  You *will* get a decent 
> price for your car.  For the more discerning buyer, a properly 
> owner-maintained car is worth every bit as much as a full main dealer
> service historied one, possibly more.  Seriously.


"Lovingly Maintained" is going to be a bigger sell for some folks that
"FMDSH" and I don't think you'll have problems coming over as competent
conscientious when people enquire.





A

Alistair J Murray  wrote in news:c9l2s2-6k7.ln1
@florin.fluffy:



> 
> The E34 is a great car, I don't think it will be too painful waiting 
for
> the perfect E39 - B10, M5, B10...


That's what I'm hoping. In the meantime, I hope to get a little spar cash 
in my pocket from the sale of the Primera. I feel quite smug - yesterday 
I could have finished up with a 96 5 series with 140k for 3195. Instead 
I got a 96 5 series with 160k for less than half that amount!

> 
>>> Valuations indicate the Primera (98 GT, 51k) is worth about 2300,
>>> but I doubt that it'll fetch anything like that on eBay.
> 
> Fingers crossed.  It'll either struggle to hit reserve or go for lots 
is
> my guess - all it needs is two people to take a shine to it...


It will be sensibly reserved. I would like I'm to get rid of it soon, but 
I'm by no means desperate. It's going in autotrader first. I have a 
couple of things to do before it goes on Ebay (replace the original 
stereo etc) as this would include interior photos.

> 
>>> Not sure whether to remove the 17" alloys and sell 'em seperate or 
>>> leave them on. I only got them because they improve grip (ony 195s 
>>> as standard) and greatly enhance the appearance. OTOH, they may 
>>> convey a 'Nova Boy' image to potential buyers. This is not the 
>>> case. I've never modded any of my cars, not even when I was a 17 
>>> year old maniac.
>> 
>> Might well be worth going back to the standard wheels if you've still
>> got them.
> 
> I'd split them if you have the original wheels *and* they have decent
> tyres - I reckon iffy tyres will dampen interest in the car too much.
> 

I'm leaving them on. The main reason for not putting the originals back 
on is they have cheap, crappy tyres, which adversely affect the car's 
handling. I reckon this would put the buyers off more. As it happens, I 
was skint at the time and needed to replace all 4 tyres, so I took the 
cheap option. Once I'd had some wear out of them, I bought the 17" wheels 
and tyres, with much better grip and appearance.  You'll be able to see 
how much better they look when I get it on the trader. Just find a photo 
of a standard GT and compare! I just hope they don't frighten people off. 
I intend to stress that there are no other modifications, as I always 
give mods a wide berth when I'm looking at cars for sale.


> Not sure if offering the wheels as a fixed price extra would make
> sense... Thoughts folks?


I don't think that idea would sell. Only other option is to put the 
originals back on and fit good tyres, but that would cost 250-300, which 
I would have to try and recoup by selling the 17s. I think the best (and 
easiest) option is to sell it with the 17s on then flog the original 
cheap on eBay. One good thing about the 17s is the tyres are like brand 
new.

> 
> "Lovingly Maintained" is going to be a bigger sell for some folks that
> "FMDSH" and I don't think you'll have problems coming over as competent
> conscientious when people enquire.
> 

To some people that can say, "It looks good but I haven't spent any money 
on it." But I may be being a bit paranoid, there. BTW, thanks for the C&C 
compliment :-)

> 
> 
> 




-- 
Stuart Sharp

Clive George wrote:

> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A5D59463FFFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>>> Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and
>>> foot. Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily
>>> reach the pedals.
>>> :-)
>>
>> HeHe..it's all motorway work, so I hope I'll just be using the one
>> pedal (to maintain a sensible speed, of course :-) Gonna love the
>> auto if I hit some traffic, though :-)
>
> The motorway's the easy bit - remember when you first pull away from
> a stop after you've left the motorway, and a couple of days later
> when you're in a hurry.
>


And remember you *should* have your foot on the brake for short stops in 
traffic. Or take it out of gear. Auto Creep is a useful thing, but only when 
you are ready for it.

"PC Paul"  wrote in
news:ghRHe.70404$dN6.32032@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk: 


> Clive George wrote:
>> "Stu"  wrote in message
>> news:Xns96A5D59463FFFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>>>> Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and
>>>> foot. Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily
>>>> reach the pedals.
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> HeHe..it's all motorway work, so I hope I'll just be using the one
>>> pedal (to maintain a sensible speed, of course :-) Gonna love the
>>> auto if I hit some traffic, though :-)
>>
>> The motorway's the easy bit - remember when you first pull away from
>> a stop after you've left the motorway, and a couple of days later
>> when you're in a hurry.
>>
> 
> And remember you *should* have your foot on the brake for short stops
> in traffic. Or take it out of gear. Auto Creep is a useful thing, but
> only when you are ready for it.
> 
> 

Ah....I've been wondering about this: Take the scenario where one pulls off 
the Motorway and brakes to a halt to give way at the roundabout. I would 
now be standing on the brakes with very hot brake discs. A classic disc 
warping scenario. Would it not be better to hold the car on the handbrake, 
or is that not normally strong enough?

That issue aside, is it true that I can sit in drive with the brakes 
holding the car for as long as I like, without fear of causing any wear, 
due to the mechanical isolation provided by the torque converter?



-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A6E6388F672nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "PC Paul"  wrote in
> news:ghRHe.70404$dN6.32032@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > Clive George wrote:
> >> "Stu"  wrote in message
> >> news:Xns96A5D59463FFFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
> >>>> Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg and
> >>>> foot. Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't easily
> >>>> reach the pedals.
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> HeHe..it's all motorway work, so I hope I'll just be using the one
> >>> pedal (to maintain a sensible speed, of course :-) Gonna love the
> >>> auto if I hit some traffic, though :-)
> >>
> >> The motorway's the easy bit - remember when you first pull away from
> >> a stop after you've left the motorway, and a couple of days later
> >> when you're in a hurry.
> >>
> >
> > And remember you *should* have your foot on the brake for short stops
> > in traffic. Or take it out of gear. Auto Creep is a useful thing, but
> > only when you are ready for it.
> >
> >
> Ah....I've been wondering about this: Take the scenario where one pulls
off
> the Motorway and brakes to a halt to give way at the roundabout. I would
> now be standing on the brakes with very hot brake discs. A classic disc
> warping scenario. Would it not be better to hold the car on the handbrake,
> or is that not normally strong enough?


The h/brake will easily hold it. but if the wait is likely to be long I
usually snick it into neutral. On a flat road, I might brake, then put it in
neutral without any brakes at all. Then just stick it in drive when I'm
ready to move off.


> That issue aside, is it true that I can sit in drive with the brakes
> holding the car for as long as I like, without fear of causing any wear,
> due to the mechanical isolation provided by the torque converter?


It's not advisable to be stationary in 'drive' for long periods. The g/box
'is' still trying to drive the car, hence the creep factor. A long time
under those conditions could cause the box to overheat.
I've never heard of anyone damaging a box in that way, but it can't be good
for the box in any case.

A point you're probably aware of by now, but I'll mention it anyway just in
case, is after starting the car, always put your foot on the brake before
putting it into drive or reverse. New drivers to autos have been known to
forget the creep factor, and finished up hitting something.
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42f08de1$0$90201$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A6E6388F672nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> "PC Paul"  wrote in
>> news:ghRHe.70404$dN6.32032@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>
>> > Clive George wrote:
>> >> "Stu"  wrote in message
>> >> news:Xns96A5D59463FFFnobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> >>>> Just remember when you're driving it home. Forget your left leg
>> >>>> and foot. Tuck it under the seat, or somewhere where it can't
>> >>>> easily reach the pedals.
>> >>>> :-)
>> >>>
>> >>> HeHe..it's all motorway work, so I hope I'll just be using the
>> >>> one pedal (to maintain a sensible speed, of course :-) Gonna love
>> >>> the auto if I hit some traffic, though :-)
>> >>
>> >> The motorway's the easy bit - remember when you first pull away
>> >> from a stop after you've left the motorway, and a couple of days
>> >> later when you're in a hurry.
>> >>
>> >
>> > And remember you *should* have your foot on the brake for short
>> > stops in traffic. Or take it out of gear. Auto Creep is a useful
>> > thing, but only when you are ready for it.
>> >
>> >
>> Ah....I've been wondering about this: Take the scenario where one
>> pulls 
> off
>> the Motorway and brakes to a halt to give way at the roundabout. I
>> would now be standing on the brakes with very hot brake discs. A
>> classic disc warping scenario. Would it not be better to hold the car
>> on the handbrake, or is that not normally strong enough?
> 
> The h/brake will easily hold it. but if the wait is likely to be long
> I usually snick it into neutral. On a flat road, I might brake, then
> put it in neutral without any brakes at all. Then just stick it in
> drive when I'm ready to move off.
> 
>> That issue aside, is it true that I can sit in drive with the brakes
>> holding the car for as long as I like, without fear of causing any
>> wear, due to the mechanical isolation provided by the torque
>> converter? 
> 
> It's not advisable to be stationary in 'drive' for long periods. The
> g/box 'is' still trying to drive the car, hence the creep factor. A
> long time under those conditions could cause the box to overheat.
> I've never heard of anyone damaging a box in that way, but it can't be
> good for the box in any case.
> 

Ah, right. Wasn't really thinking about the heat factor. Stupid of me 
really - the energy doesn't vanish just because one's foot is on the 
brakes, does it?


> A point you're probably aware of by now, but I'll mention it anyway
> just in case, is after starting the car, always put your foot on the
> brake before putting it into drive or reverse. New drivers to autos
> have been known to forget the creep factor, and finished up hitting
> something. Mike.
> 

Yes. Never been specifically told to do that but it's common sense, 
'innit ?



-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message

> > A point you're probably aware of by now, but I'll mention it anyway
> > just in case, is after starting the car, always put your foot on the
> > brake before putting it into drive or reverse. New drivers to autos
> > have been known to forget the creep factor, and finished up hitting
> > something. Mike.
> >
> Yes. Never been specifically told to do that but it's common sense,
> 'innit ?


You'd think so, but experienced manual box drivers have been known to forget
that an auto requires a slightly different technique when pulling away from
rest.
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42f1088d$1$24007$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
>> >
>> Yes. Never been specifically told to do that but it's common sense,
>> 'innit ?
> 
> You'd think so, but experienced manual box drivers have been known to
> forget that an auto requires a slightly different technique when
> pulling away from rest.
> Mike.
> 

In my (very) brief experince, I found that reversing is the most risky 
manouvre, as they seem quite sensitive to the lightest touch of the 
throttle. Hence I will be using the brake only when parking etc.



-- 
Stuart Sharp

"Stu"  wrote in message
news:Xns96A7C88E24832nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...

> "Mike G"  wrote in
> news:42f1088d$1$24007$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
>
> >
> > "Stu"  wrote in message
> >> >
> >> Yes. Never been specifically told to do that but it's common sense,
> >> 'innit ?
> >
> > You'd think so, but experienced manual box drivers have been known to
> > forget that an auto requires a slightly different technique when
> > pulling away from rest.
> > Mike.
> >
> In my (very) brief experince, I found that reversing is the most risky
> manouvre, as they seem quite sensitive to the lightest touch of the
> throttle.


Nah. Reversing is easy. Initially until you get used to it, and if you're
not on a slope, don't touch the accelerator. Use the 'creep' facility with
your foot just resting on the brake pedal, until you want to stop.

Hence I will be using the brake only when parking etc.

I have to remember to use the h/brake occasionally as if you always use
'park' when leaving the car as I do, the handbrake can get a little
inefficient. :-)
Mike.

"Mike G"  wrote in
news:42f12395$0$39652$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net: 


> 
> "Stu"  wrote in message
> news:Xns96A7C88E24832nobodyhomecom@216.196.109.144...
>> "Mike G"  wrote in
>> news:42f1088d$1$24007$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
>>
>> >
>> > "Stu"  wrote in message
>> >> >
>> >> Yes. Never been specifically told to do that but it's common
>> >> sense, 'innit ?
>> >
>> > You'd think so, but experienced manual box drivers have been known
>> > to forget that an auto requires a slightly different technique when
>> > pulling away from rest.
>> > Mike.
>> >
>> In my (very) brief experince, I found that reversing is the most
>> risky manouvre, as they seem quite sensitive to the lightest touch of
>> the throttle.
> 
> Nah. Reversing is easy. Initially until you get used to it, and if
> you're not on a slope, don't touch the accelerator. Use the 'creep'
> facility with your foot just resting on the brake pedal, until you
> want to stop. 


This is what I'll be doing, I didn't explain it very well.

> 
> Hence I will be using the brake only when parking etc.
> 
> I have to remember to use the h/brake occasionally as if you always
> use 'park' when leaving the car as I do, the handbrake can get a
> little inefficient. :-)
> Mike.
> 

What I meant was, when making a parking manouvre, I won't be touching the 
accelerator, I'll just use the brake to control the creep, like you 
describe above. Nothing to do with how I'll use the handbrake, although I 
do think it's a good idea to leave it in park if stopping only briefly 
(on level ground) - saves wear on the cables :-)


-- 
Stuart Sharp

In article <42f08de1$0$90201$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
   Mike G  wrote:

> A point you're probably aware of by now, but I'll mention it anyway just
> in case, is after starting the car, always put your foot on the brake
> before putting it into drive or reverse. New drivers to autos have been
> known to forget the creep factor, and finished up hitting something.


An E39 won't allow you to engage drive or reverse unless the footbrake is
applied. Think other newish cars are the same.

Of course the E39 handbrake is crap. ;-)

-- 
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4d94d1a551dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <42f08de1$0$90201$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
>    Mike G  wrote:
> > A point you're probably aware of by now, but I'll mention it anyway just
> > in case, is after starting the car, always put your foot on the brake
> > before putting it into drive or reverse. New drivers to autos have been
> > known to forget the creep factor, and finished up hitting something.
>
> An E39 won't allow you to engage drive or reverse unless the footbrake is
> applied. Think other newish cars are the same.
>
> Of course the E39 handbrake is crap. ;-)


So you have 2 cars with crap h/brakes. :-)
Mike.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

	[...]


> An E39 won't allow you to engage drive or reverse unless the footbrake is
> applied. Think other newish cars are the same.


Mine is locked in P till you press the brake.


> Of course the E39 handbrake is crap. ;-)


Ho yuss...  :(

I like a handbrake that works on 2 or 3 clicks, the E39 one won't.



A

Most newer auto boxes (certainly on the last two autos I've driven)
won't let you move the lever out of park unless your foot is on the
brake pedal.
They'll let you move it out of neutral, though.

Realised a couple of years back that 99% of my driving is either in
town or on fast roads, both situations where an auto is more relaxing
to drive than a manual. Manual gearboxes seem like too much hard work
now.

"pyruse"  wrote in message
news:1123146360.291203.85250@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Most newer auto boxes (certainly on the last two autos I've driven)
> won't let you move the lever out of park unless your foot is on the
> brake pedal.
> They'll let you move it out of neutral, though.
>
> Realised a couple of years back that 99% of my driving is either in
> town or on fast roads, both situations where an auto is more relaxing
> to drive than a manual. Manual gearboxes seem like too much hard work
> now.


Couldn't agree more.
For everyday driving, if I had to make a choice between manual or auto, my
choice would have to be auto.
Most who've made the switch, appear to come to the same conclusion.
Mike.

The message <42f1e8e4$0$77296$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>
from "Mike G"  contains these words:


> For everyday driving, if I had to make a choice between manual or auto, my
> choice would have to be auto.
> Most who've made the switch, appear to come to the same conclusion.


After a few weeks, in some cases. Some people miss "The Control" which
is some illusory feeling that changing gear allows you to control the
car better.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King  wrote:


> The message <42f1e8e4$0$77296$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>
> from "Mike G"  contains these words:
> 
> > For everyday driving, if I had to make a choice between manual or auto, my
> > choice would have to be auto.
> > Most who've made the switch, appear to come to the same conclusion.
> 
> After a few weeks, in some cases. Some people miss "The Control" which
> is some illusory feeling that changing gear allows you to control the
> car better.


There's no illusion about it - you can make use of engine braking in a
manual, which is why a manual usually has shorter braking distances to
an auto. You also don't get the 'box deciding to piss about with ratios
mid-corner.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"Guy King"  wrote in message
news:313030303432373942F1FB5800@zetnet.co.uk...

> The message <42f1e8e4$0$77296$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>
> from "Mike G"  contains these words:
>
> > For everyday driving, if I had to make a choice between manual or auto,
my
> > choice would have to be auto.
> > Most who've made the switch, appear to come to the same conclusion.
>
> After a few weeks, in some cases. Some people miss "The Control" which
> is some illusory feeling that changing gear allows you to control the
> car better.



Heavy car, gutless engine, rwd, autobox. Every wet roundabout is a journey
into the unknown.

True it's far older technology than most on the road, but it's still
somewhere between fun and fright when the box decides to shift down half way
round, and the back end thinks it's time for an unexpected wander. I suppose
I could stick it in 2nd, but then it's not really automatic anymore, is it?

The same car with a proper box is far more of a joy to drive, more
responsive and predictable. The feel of control through being able to
balance the car directly, instead of suffering what I can best describe as
torque converter lag is much preferred. And I do often wonder what the extra
loads of the car always being in gear are on the suspension and brakes.
Can't be a good thing, IMO.

The message <1h0rrph.12k40uj1gu9uijN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>
from steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) contains these words:


> There's no illusion about it - you can make use of engine braking in a
> manual, 


I have no trouble with engine braking in an auto. I frequently descend
into the Severn Gorge at Ironbridge in 1st gear without using the
brakes.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King  wrote:


> The message <1h0rrph.12k40uj1gu9uijN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>
> from steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) contains these words:
> 
> > There's no illusion about it - you can make use of engine braking in a
> > manual, 
> 
> I have no trouble with engine braking in an auto. I frequently descend
> into the Severn Gorge at Ironbridge in 1st gear without using the
> brakes.


Is that because you shift it into a restricted gear or does it do it
iself?
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

"Stuffed"  wrote in message
news:dct6sg$2qr$1@news.freedom2surf.net...

>
> "Guy King"  wrote in message
> news:313030303432373942F1FB5800@zetnet.co.uk...
> > The message <42f1e8e4$0$77296$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>
> > from "Mike G"  contains these words:
> >
> > > For everyday driving, if I had to make a choice between manual or
auto,
> my
> > > choice would have to be auto.
> > > Most who've made the switch, appear to come to the same conclusion.
> >
> > After a few weeks, in some cases. Some people miss "The Control" which
> > is some illusory feeling that changing gear allows you to control the
> > car better.
>
>
> Heavy car, gutless engine, rwd, autobox. Every wet roundabout is a journey
> into the unknown.


Rubbish.
I assume you're referring to an E34 525i auto in particular.
Fair enough the car is quite heavy, but the engine is far from gutless. 190
bhp from an NA 2.5litre engine can hardly be called gutless.
As far as RWD is concerned, very few would dispute that dynamically it's
superior to FWD, and IMO it's more predictable in the wet than FWD.
Of course the rear end will let go if you're too enthusiastic with the
accelerator, on a  wet roundabout, or fast corner, but unless you've really
overcooked it, at least it's controllable with the s/wheel and throttle.In
the same circumstances, a FWD car just goes straight on.


> True it's far older technology than most on the road, but it's still
> somewhere between fun and fright when the box decides to shift down half
way
> round, and the back end thinks it's time for an unexpected wander.


I don't know what sort of RWD auto's you've driven, but that's not my
experience at all. I've never had an auto change down unexpectedly. If
you're driving hard, it will always change down at peak revs, so why should
it be unexpected?

 I suppose

> I could stick it in 2nd, but then it's not really automatic anymore, is
it?
>
> The same car with a proper box is far more of a joy to drive, more
> responsive and predictable. The feel of control through being able to
> balance the car directly, instead of suffering what I can best describe as
> torque converter lag is much preferred.


What are you on about?
IME it's just as easy to balance an auto on the throttle as a manual.

 And I do often wonder what the extra

> loads of the car always being in gear are on the suspension and brakes.
> Can't be a good thing, IMO.


Personally I believe an auto has an easier life. For a start you can't
overrev the engine. You can't, unless you really try, abuse the
transmission, g/box, diff, drive shafts etc. There's no clutch to burn out
on racing starts.
Some years ago I heard of a mini-cab company that replaced it's manual cars
for autos, making significant savings on repairs to transmissions. Clutches
and g/boxes in particular.
Mike.

The message <1h0s0ek.cb1iir17uzgjbN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>
from steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) contains these words:


> > I have no trouble with engine braking in an auto. I frequently descend
> > into the Severn Gorge at Ironbridge in 1st gear without using the
> > brakes.

> Is that because you shift it into a restricted gear or does it do it
> iself?


I select a low gear. Can't expect automatics to do /everything/ for you.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King  wrote:


> The message <1h0s0ek.cb1iir17uzgjbN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>
> from steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) contains these words:
> 
> > > I have no trouble with engine braking in an auto. I frequently descend
> > > into the Severn Gorge at Ironbridge in 1st gear without using the
> > > brakes.
> 
> > Is that because you shift it into a restricted gear or does it do it
> > iself?
> 
> I select a low gear. Can't expect automatics to do /everything/ for you.


May as well have a manual, then.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

The message <1h0sc0t.1ia6vnpemyetrN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>
from steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) contains these words:


> > I select a low gear. Can't expect automatics to do /everything/ for you.

> May as well have a manual, then.


For the once or twice a week I need to do it, I'll keep my lazy auto.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

In article <42f169ff$0$16210$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
   Mike G  wrote:

> > An E39 won't allow you to engage drive or reverse unless the footbrake is
> > applied. Think other newish cars are the same.
> >
> > Of course the E39 handbrake is crap. ;-)

> So you have 2 cars with crap h/brakes. :-)


;-)

If only the E39 was as good as the SD1 with both in perfect working order.

But I hanker after my P6 handbrake on the disks which gave over 50% on the
tester. ;-)

-- 
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <tia8s2-1ju.ln1@florin.fluffy>,
   Alistair J Murray  wrote:

> > An E39 won't allow you to engage drive or reverse unless the footbrake is
> > applied. Think other newish cars are the same.

> Mine is locked in P till you press the brake.

Yup.

> > Of course the E39 handbrake is crap. ;-)

> Ho yuss...  :(

> I like a handbrake that works on 2 or 3 clicks, the E39 one won't.


I like a handbrake that works full stop. ;-)

Ie, one, which if applied hard at say 10 mph actually slows the car. ;-)

-- 
*Always drink upstream from the herd *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <1h0rrph.12k40uj1gu9uijN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>,
   SteveH  wrote:

> There's no illusion about it - you can make use of engine braking in a
> manual, which is why a manual usually has shorter braking distances to
> an auto.


That's total bollocks. It's the brakes which stop the car and has nothing
to do with the transmission.


> You also don't get the 'box deciding to piss about with ratios
> mid-corner.


You don't with a decent auto either.

-- 
*Consciousness:  That annoying time between naps.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News)  wrote:


> In article <1h0rrph.12k40uj1gu9uijN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>,
>    SteveH  wrote:
> > There's no illusion about it - you can make use of engine braking in a
> > manual, which is why a manual usually has shorter braking distances to
> > an auto.
> 
> That's total bollocks. It's the brakes which stop the car and has nothing
> to do with the transmission.

 
You've been driving slushomatics too long, then.


> > You also don't get the 'box deciding to piss about with ratios
> > mid-corner.
> 
> You don't with a decent auto either.


See above.
-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

In article <42f1e8e4$0$77296$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>, 
metier@lycos.co.uk (Mike G) wrote:


> For everyday driving, if I had to make a choice between manual or 
> auto, my
> choice would have to be auto.


I drive an Auto Fiat Panda and a Manual Escort. I CAN beat the Fiat 
gearbox on economy and driveability if I use maunal mode.

I prefer Manual except when driving in London.

-- 
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

"Paul Cummins"  wrote in message
news:memo.20050804223945.3032A@0007148297.gst-group.co.uk...

> In article <42f1e8e4$0$77296$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
> metier@lycos.co.uk (Mike G) wrote:
>
> > For everyday driving, if I had to make a choice between manual or
> > auto, my
> > choice would have to be auto.
>
> I drive an Auto Fiat Panda and a Manual Escort. I CAN beat the Fiat
> gearbox on economy and driveability if I use maunal mode.
>
> I prefer Manual except when driving in London.


Given that choice I might agree. :-)
I can't imagine that the auto box on a Fiat Panda is a particularly nice
box.
Those on cheaper cars tend to be a bit primitive.
Mike.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
news:4d9550fa75dave@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <42f169ff$0$16210$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
>    Mike G  wrote:
> > > An E39 won't allow you to engage drive or reverse unless the footbrake
is
> > > applied. Think other newish cars are the same.
> > >
> > > Of course the E39 handbrake is crap. ;-)
>
> > So you have 2 cars with crap h/brakes. :-)
>
> ;-)
>
> If only the E39 was as good as the SD1 with both in perfect working order.


The E34 h/brake seems very good.
Must say, I was never impressed with the h/brake on my SD1. Even when it was
working as well as it could. The cable layout means one side always works
better than the other. I hardly ever used mine, so prior to every MOT, I had
to go underneath and lubricate all the linkages and the cable guide on the
diff. Otherwise it would fail the h/brake test.

>
> But I hanker after my P6 handbrake on the disks which gave over 50% on the
> tester. ;-)


I can't recall what they were like on the 2 P6's I had. A 2000, and 2000TC,
They both had Girling brakes. I remember that much. In fact I have a pair of
rear calipers, and a pukka Girling piston retracting tool somewhere. I never
did like fitting rear pads to those things. Dunno whether the Dunlop system
was any easier.
Mike.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <1h0rrph.12k40uj1gu9uijN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>,
>   SteveH  wrote:
>> There's no illusion about it - you can make use of engine braking in
>> a manual, which is why a manual usually has shorter braking
>> distances to an auto.
>
> That's total bollocks. It's the brakes which stop the car and has
> nothing to do with the transmission.
>
>> You also don't get the 'box deciding to piss about with ratios
>> mid-corner.
>
> You don't with a decent auto either.


Scariest thing I ever did was try and pull out onto a busy road with a Merc 
E220. It spent a good second deciding what gear to get into, then shot 
forward into a gap that wasn't there any more...

The message <uSwIe.3913$ia4.657@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
from "PC Paul"  contains these words:


> Scariest thing I ever did was try and pull out onto a busy road with a Merc 
> E220. It spent a good second deciding what gear to get into, then shot 
> forward into a gap that wasn't there any more...


Ah, I remember doing that with a hired Merc many years ago. Either I've
improved or autoboxen have improved.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <tia8s2-1ju.ln1@florin.fluffy>, Alistair J Murray
>  wrote:

	[...]

>> I like a handbrake that works on 2 or 3 clicks, the E39 one won't.
> 
> I like a handbrake that works full stop. ;-)


That's a good second best. :)


> Ie, one, which if applied hard at say 10 mph actually slows the car.
> ;-)


I remember those,     ...dimly :(



A

In article <1h0shco.1qrkfob12nu9kyN%steve@italiancar.co.uk>,
   SteveH  wrote:

> > > There's no illusion about it - you can make use of engine braking in
> > > a manual, which is why a manual usually has shorter braking
> > > distances to an auto.
> > 
> > That's total bollocks. It's the brakes which stop the car and has
> > nothing to do with the transmission.
>  
> You've been driving slushomatics too long, then.


You really need to think about the laws of physics if you think the
retardation provided by the engine - either auto or manual transmission -
has any effect on the minimum braking distance with a modern car. 

If after *actually* thinking about it get back to us with your proof.

-- 
*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News)  wrote:


> > > That's total bollocks. It's the brakes which stop the car and has
> > > nothing to do with the transmission.
> >  
> > You've been driving slushomatics too long, then.
> 
> You really need to think about the laws of physics if you think the
> retardation provided by the engine - either auto or manual transmission -
> has any effect on the minimum braking distance with a modern car. 
> 
> If after *actually* thinking about it get back to us with your proof.


I refer you to the answer I gave above.

-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

The message <1h0u924.192hm3c11y7zf2N%steve@italiancar.co.uk>
from steve@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) contains these words:


> I refer you to the answer I gave above.


Minimum stopping distance is governed by the grip from the tyres[1]. How
the retarding force that /uses/ the grips is generated is neither here
nor there.

[1] Assuming you can lock the wheels. Of course, things like dampers can
affect how much of the grip is actually avilable.
-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

In article <uSwIe.3913$ia4.657@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
   PC Paul  wrote:

> Scariest thing I ever did was try and pull out onto a busy road with a
> Merc E220. It spent a good second deciding what gear to get into, then
> shot forward into a gap that wasn't there any more...


Sounds like it needed fixing.

-- 
*Starfishes have no brains *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <42f29690$1$24054$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
   Mike G  wrote:

> > If only the E39 was as good as the SD1 with both in perfect working
> > order.

> The E34 h/brake seems very good.


You must have a different E34 to the one I had. ;-)

Will it lock the wheels at say 10 mph when coasting?


> Must say, I was never impressed with the h/brake on my SD1. 


It will, when in good condition.


> Even when it was working as well as it could. The cable layout means one
> side always works better than the other.


Only if faulty.


> I hardly ever used mine,


Me too, with the E39. So plenty of rust on the drums helps. ;-)


> so prior to every MOT, I had to go underneath
> and lubricate all the linkages and the cable guide on the diff.
> Otherwise it would fail the h/brake test.


One in good condition is ideal for handbrake turns. No chance with the
tiny handbrake drums on recent BMWs.


> > But I hanker after my P6 handbrake on the disks which gave over 50% on
> > the tester. ;-)

> I can't recall what they were like on the 2 P6's I had. A 2000, and
> 2000TC, They both had Girling brakes. I remember that much. In fact I
> have a pair of rear calipers, and a pukka Girling piston retracting tool
> somewhere. I never did like fitting rear pads to those things. Dunno
> whether the Dunlop system was any easier.


The Dunlop system used separate handbrake callipers. Not sure how well it
worked as I've not owned an early 2000. But the Girling handbrake was the
best I've known.

-- 
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <uSwIe.3913$ia4.657@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>   PC Paul  wrote:
>> Scariest thing I ever did was try and pull out onto a busy road with
>> a Merc E220. It spent a good second deciding what gear to get into,
>> then shot forward into a gap that wasn't there any more...
>
> Sounds like it needed fixing.


It was a hire car...

Seemed to be mostly dithering between kicking down one or two gears before 
it actually decided. I'm sure it changed three or four times... and I had my 
foot to the floor...

In article <42f29690$0$24054$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>, 
metier@lycos.co.uk (Mike G) wrote:


> I can't imagine that the auto box on a Fiat Panda is a particularly 
> nice box.


This is the New Fiat Panda, not the old one...

It's a 'robotised' 5 speed box.

-- 
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981