A large poster newly put up at Epping station states that litter bins are
being removed due to the security situation.
In practice this means not putting the clear plastic bags in the holders and
expecting more security alerts as people dump rubbish on the platform
instead.

Bit puzzled by this but aparently there were 16 more bombs in the car
abandoned at Luton on the 7th July, so it could be that they weren't
deliberate suicide bombers but self inflicted victims of dodgy timers who
were planning to plant their bombs and then return for more.

Nick

Nick Pedley (nicholaspedley@npedley.freeserve.co.uk) said:

> A large poster newly put up at Epping station states that
> litter bins are being removed due to the security
> situation.
> In practice this means not putting the clear plastic bags
> in the holders and expecting more security alerts as
> people dump rubbish on the platform instead.
>


Keep in mind that these transparent bins were probably introduced so 
that they could be inspected more easily for suspect packages! It's 
still a nonsense - short of inspecting each and every person a suicide 
bomber *will* succeed in getting their device into a crowd. If it 
detonates properly or not is another matter...

-- 
Andrew

Andrew Bell wrote:

> Nick Pedley (nicholaspedley@npedley.freeserve.co.uk) said:
> > A large poster newly put up at Epping station states that
> > litter bins are being removed due to the security
> > situation.
> > In practice this means not putting the clear plastic bags
> > in the holders and expecting more security alerts as
> > people dump rubbish on the platform instead.
> >
>
> Keep in mind that these transparent bins were probably introduced so
> that they could be inspected more easily for suspect packages! It's
> still a nonsense - short of inspecting each and every person a suicide
> bomber *will* succeed in getting their device into a crowd. If it
> detonates properly or not is another matter...



There was some discussion about SET's Networker bins a while ago.  It
now seems that they really have been removed.  The situation for a few
days where the liners weren't put in, leaving people putting stuff
directly in the buckets, was perhaps a misunderstanding among staff
about which "bins" to take out.

SET also stopped hanging clear bin liners from its station fences.  A
couple of yards the other side of the fences there would still be very
solid, opaque, local council bins though.

Will they unscrew the bins incorporated in perch seats in 376s I wonder?

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 00:31:15 +0100, Nick Pedley wrote:


> Bit puzzled by this but aparently there were 16 more bombs in the car
> abandoned at Luton on the 7th July, so it could be that they weren't
> deliberate suicide bombers but self inflicted victims of dodgy timers who
> were planning to plant their bombs and then return for more.


It could also be that they were left for other people to use. And
perhaps that's one reason why the police keep on suggesting there may be
other as yet undiscovered groups of bombers.

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12598544.html
(67 012 at Winsford, 17 Jul 2004)

On 28 Jul 2005 18:37:51 -0700 someone who may be "MIG"
 wrote this:-


>SET also stopped hanging clear bin liners from its station fences.  A
>couple of yards the other side of the fences there would still be very
>solid, opaque, local council bins though.


That is the situation at my local station. Then people wonder why
some of us point out the flaws in so-called security measures.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Yes - All bins under 376 perch seats already removed. The front and
bottom and sides are removed. They remain on 375s, and indeed on One WA
317s.

regards
HN28

This is a strange finding. If they were victims of dodgy timers, then
three of them were very well synchronised dodgy timers. That the 4th
person managed to delay his for an hour or so until on the bus would
suggest they had some control over the devices.

I cant believe that anyone would think they could inflict that kind of
carnage on the underground then manage to get away in time, not only to
escape capture, but return to Luton for more bombs,but at the same time
leaving the rucksacks alone for only a few seconds before detonation in
order to avoid passengers getting suspicious of unattended luggage.

On 29 Jul 2005 02:25:25 -0700 someone who may be
crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk wrote this:-


>This is a strange finding. If they were victims of dodgy timers, then
>three of them were very well synchronised dodgy timers.


There are presumably two likely options. Firstly, they set the bombs
off themselves at a pre-determined time, having synchronised watches
beforehand. Secondly, the bombs went off at a set time, the clocks
having drifted slightly and/or not been set to the same precise
time. The second possibility does not necessarily mean they were
expecting the bombs to explode when they did. They may have thought
that they were taking the bombs to someone else and would then be
going back to get some other bombs.


>That the 4th
>person managed to delay his for an hour or so until on the bus would
>suggest they had some control over the devices.


That is one possibility, but there are a number of others.

As for events at Luton I suspect we will need to wait a while before
that becomes clear, if it ever does.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In article ,
  wrote:

>I cant believe that anyone would think they could inflict that kind of
>carnage on the underground then manage to get away in time, not only to
>escape capture, but return to Luton for more bombs,but at the same time
>leaving the rucksacks alone for only a few seconds before detonation in
>order to avoid passengers getting suspicious of unattended luggage.
>

 Until 07/07 I'd say "passengers don't get suspicious of unattended
luggage".  Now it's "passengers didn't ...".

-- 
Jonathan Amery.      There are roads that lead to danger,
   #####                there are paths which lead to life:
  #######__o         Wisdom's ways are filled with choices
  #######'/             for the travellers she invites.         - Doug Gay

>That the 4th
>person managed to delay his for an hour or so until on the bus would
>suggest they had some control over the devices.


That is one possibility, but there are a number of others.

Sorry, I seem to have missed a few lines here. You mention other
possibilities but not what these are.

Nick Pedley wrote:

> Bit puzzled by this but aparently there were 16 more bombs in the car
> abandoned at Luton on the 7th July


So by using their logic regarding the rubbish bins, are they going to 
ban cars from parking in station car parks or near railways?

On 29 Jul 2005 05:28:36 -0700 someone who may be
crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk wrote this:-


>>>That the 4th
>>>person managed to delay his for an hour or so until on the bus would
>>>suggest they had some control over the devices.
>>
>>That is one possibility, but there are a number of others.
>
>Sorry, I seem to have missed a few lines here. You mention other
>possibilities but not what these are.


I didn't say, but these include, one could have been set to GMT by
mistake. One could have been deliberately set an hour late. One
could have accidentally been set an hour late. The battery could be
going flat.

The latter reminds me of the charges in HMS Campbeltown, which was
rammed into dock gates in France. They failed to go off at the
appointed time, but did go off much later for reasons nobody has
ever worked out. As the charges consisted of several depth charges
the effect was awful on the humans nearby.

http://www.combinedops.com/St%20Nazaire.htm




-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"Jonathan Amery"  wrote in message
news:iNx*kDOUq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> >I cant believe that anyone would think they could inflict that kind of
> >carnage on the underground then manage to get away in time, not only to
> >escape capture, but return to Luton for more bombs,but at the same time
> >leaving the rucksacks alone for only a few seconds before detonation in
> >order to avoid passengers getting suspicious of unattended luggage.
> >
>  Until 07/07 I'd say "passengers don't get suspicious of unattended
> luggage".  Now it's "passengers didn't ...".
>
> --


I wondr why people leave luggage when there are theives about, maybe we
shoudl all just nick people left items?

Also why worry about unnattended bags, is this in case the sucide bomber got
scared and went chicken and decided to leve bomb behind?, some marter.

I did a top thing today, i boarded a busy train with a fair sized box, and
people could see it was weighty, to point make i put box right beside the
offside doors, and at half time bent down and fiddled with box and got out
me sun,   did it arouse anyone?, DIF !
If only i was brainwashed id be dangerous.  why doesnt christianity promise
me 100 virgin husbands if i do the job properly?

jan

"Darren"  wrote in message
news:42ea215a$0$3476$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...

> Nick Pedley wrote:
> > Bit puzzled by this but aparently there were 16 more bombs in the car
> > abandoned at Luton on the 7th July
>
> So by using their logic regarding the rubbish bins, are they going to
> ban cars from parking in station car parks or near railways?


blimey dont say that,  we be banning road over rail crossings next just
incase they want to commit harry carry over an ahb.

In article <dcbps4$dn5$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, Nick Pedley <nicholaspedl
ey@npedley.freeserve.co.uk> writes

>A large poster newly put up at Epping station states that litter bins are
>being removed due to the security situation.
>In practice this means not putting the clear plastic bags in the holders and
>expecting more security alerts as people dump rubbish on the platform
>instead.


British Rail and its successors have had this policy for years

Can someone invent the transparent litter bin, then everyone can see
what is inside, maybe even a high tech versions that can sniff out
explosives.

-- 
Al

In article ,
crazy_horse_12002@yahoo.co.uk writes

>This is a strange finding. If they were victims of dodgy timers, then
>three of them were very well synchronised dodgy timers. That the 4th
>person managed to delay his for an hour or so until on the bus would
>suggest they had some control over the devices.
>
>I cant believe that anyone would think they could inflict that kind of
>carnage on the underground then manage to get away in time, not only to
>escape capture, but return to Luton for more bombs,but at the same time
>leaving the rucksacks alone for only a few seconds before detonation in
>order to avoid passengers getting suspicious of unattended luggage.
>


Interesting why they bought return tickets and paid to park the car at
Luton Station.

If they were 'dodgy' then they could have all gone off on the Thameslink
train to London, or even on the road on the way to Luton Station.

Future Historians might say WW3 started 9/11/01 known as the Terror War.

-- 
Al

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:51:22 +0100, Alan Osborn
 wrote:


>Future Historians might say WW3 started 9/11/01 known as the Terror War.


I doubt it; it's not a "war" in the traditional sense.  It also didn't
start on the 9th November 2001 (sorry, personal bugbear).

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:44:08 +0100, Alan Osborn
 wrote:


>Can someone invent the transparent litter bin, then everyone can see
>what is inside, maybe even a high tech versions that can sniff out
>explosives.


They have, in the form of those loops on which clear plastic bags
hang.  There is absolutely no need for these to be withdrawn, but some
TOCs appear to be panicking.

It occurred to me while waiting on BNS for an hour the weekend before
last that I could have triggered a security alert by placing a
finished Burger King bag on the floor under a seat on the platform, as
I had nothing else I could do with it, there being no bins, no handy
unlocked trains with bins, and the litter being too dirty (with tomato
ketchup, mayonnaise, ice cubes in the drink etc) to put in my, umm,
rucksack, even if there'd been any room in it.  The bag was of
sufficient size to contain a small bomb.

No security alert resulted, but realistically there needs to be a way
to dispose of such things without causing alerts, even if we have to
go to the point of employing staff to patrol at all times collecting
such litter from people who have finished with it and inspecting it
for bombs etc before disposing of it.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote:


>On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:51:22 +0100, Alan Osborn
> wrote:
>
>>Future Historians might say WW3 started 9/11/01 known as the Terror War.
>
>I doubt it; it's not a "war" in the traditional sense.  It also didn't
>start on the 9th November 2001 (sorry, personal bugbear).



It started when Pope Urban II promoted the First Crusade in 1096, and
it will never end.

Neil Williams wrote:


> No security alert resulted, but realistically there needs to be a way
> to dispose of such things without causing alerts, even if we have to
> go to the point of employing staff to patrol at all times collecting
> such litter from people who have finished with it and inspecting it
> for bombs etc before disposing of it.


I don't think I'd fancy that job!

What's the exact difference between a station litter bin and one in a 
busy shopping street?

Charlie

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:01:41 GMT, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>What's the exact difference between a station litter bin and one in a 
>busy shopping street?


People in busy shopping streets/local councils aren't paranoid?

A train is a poor terrorist target anyway, as I've said before.  A
busy shopping street would arguably be a better one.  Though, that
said, a suicide bomber does not require a litter bin to operate,
wherever that may be, so it is just a reactionary and unnecessary
measure.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Charlie Hulme"  wrote in message
news:9HxGe.16556$Fx3.1968@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...

> Neil Williams wrote:
>
> > No security alert resulted, but realistically there needs to be a way
> > to dispose of such things without causing alerts, even if we have to
> > go to the point of employing staff to patrol at all times collecting
> > such litter from people who have finished with it and inspecting it
> > for bombs etc before disposing of it.
>
> I don't think I'd fancy that job!
>
> What's the exact difference between a station litter bin and one in a
> busy shopping street?
>

I'd guess less than 30 metres in a lot of cases, mainly central London
stations.

Nick

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:44:08 +0100, Alan Osborn
 wrote:



>Can someone invent the transparent litter bin, then everyone can see
>what is inside, maybe even a high tech versions that can sniff out
>explosives.


Or this:

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/corporate_commercial/press/ShowPressRelease.asp?Show=100

FWIW it drives me insane that no bins are provided at Manc Piccadilly.
If it's OK to have them on trains why not on the platforms?

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:30:25 +0100 someone who may be Darren
 wrote this:-


>So by using their logic regarding the rubbish bins, are they going to 
>ban cars from parking in station car parks or near railways?


So-called security measures are generally about being seen to be
doing something, while picking on what are considered small groups
and so avoiding causing any trouble with larger groups. Although
motor vehicles can carry much larger bombs and have things called
fuel tanks to add to the effect they are ignored to avoid upsetting
their operators.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:04:51 +0100 someone who may be "Nick Pedley"
 wrote this:-


>> What's the exact difference between a station litter bin and one in a
>> busy shopping street?
>>
>I'd guess less than 30 metres in a lot of cases, mainly central London
>stations.


If we remove the words busy and shopping there are cases where the
difference is one or two metres.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:30:36 GMT someone who may be
wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote this:-


>No security alert resulted, but realistically there needs to be a way
>to dispose of such things without causing alerts,


I kick large litter onto the track if I encounter any on a platform.
It is a trip hazard (it is far more likely for someone to be killed
or injured by tripping than a bomb I imagine) and if there are no
bins the track is the best place for it.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"David Hansen"  wrote in message
news:htome111grgcft6gek94ilrohe5ptcb6ft@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:30:36 GMT someone who may be
> wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote this:-
>
> >No security alert resulted, but realistically there needs to be a way
> >to dispose of such things without causing alerts,
>
> I kick large litter onto the track if I encounter any on a platform.
> It is a trip hazard (it is far more likely for someone to be killed
> or injured by tripping than a bomb I imagine) and if there are no
> bins the track is the best place for it.
>
>
> --



Weldone that man, i guess your actions will also manage to delay trains as
the rubbish becomes in contact with the wheel axes, or if 3rd rail is in use
it can cause trippings and wrap around the shoegear.

Jan

"Janice"  wrote in message
news:tMJGe.766929$3V6.500698@fe04.news.easynews.com...

>
> "David Hansen"  wrote in message
> news:htome111grgcft6gek94ilrohe5ptcb6ft@4ax.com...
> >
> > I kick large litter onto the track if I encounter any on a platform.
> > It is a trip hazard (it is far more likely for someone to be killed
> > or injured by tripping than a bomb I imagine) and if there are no
> > bins the track is the best place for it.
>
> Weldone that man, i guess your actions will also manage to delay trains as
> the rubbish becomes in contact with the wheel axes, or if 3rd rail is in
use
> it can cause trippings and wrap around the shoegear.
>

or the line is closed to allow someone to pick it up safely. No doubt the
TOC that operates the station won't disapprove, as it has to clear litter
from the platform, but it's Network Rail's job to clear it from the track.

Peter

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 11:46:33 GMT someone who may be "Janice"
 wrote this:-


>Weldone that man, i guess your actions will also manage to delay trains as
>the rubbish becomes in contact with the wheel axes,


I have yet to hear of trains being delayed by beef burger
"restaurant" meals.


>or if 3rd rail is in use it can cause trippings


Unlikely, even if it is wet.


>and wrap around the shoegear.


Possible, but unlikely to stay there for long or cause damage.

As for closing the line for the rubbish to be removed, the simple
answer is to provide litter bins and minimise the problem.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:45:47 +0100, David Hansen wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

[...]

> As for closing the line for the rubbish to be removed, the simple
> answer is to provide litter bins and minimise the problem.


But one which you know well enough won't happen. 

So, knowing that (a) to pick up rubbish on the line, the line has to
be closed and (b) that won't make the railway provide litter bins, you
still kick rubbish on the line.

Ah, well. 
-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

hn28_signal@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


>Yes - All bins under 376 perch seats already removed. The front and
>bottom and sides are removed. They remain on 375s, and indeed on One WA
>317s.


They are being removed from SETs 375s too.  Most have gone but I was
on one that still had them on Thursday.

Roy
-- 
Still not afraid.
But beginning to get a bit pissed off, frankly.

> If only i was brainwashed id be dangerous.  why doesnt christianity promise
> me 100 virgin husbands if i do the job properly?
>
> jan


Waiting to be shouted at... Because Christianity is basically a
religion of sane people that periodically goes astray when they try to
play politics....

David

On 30 Jul 2005 09:36:11 -0700, chorleydnc@hotmail.com wrote:

>> If only i was brainwashed id be dangerous.  why doesnt christianity promise
>> me 100 virgin husbands if i do the job properly?
>>
> Waiting to be shouted at... Because Christianity is basically a
> religion of sane people that periodically goes astray when they try to
> play politics....


Good analysis. Applicable to both Christianity and Islam. 

But the answer to the original question is supplied by Jesus and
recorded in Matthew 22:30 - "In the resurrection they neither marry nor
are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." 

-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13309770.html
(37 059 and 37 611 at Dunston, 17 Mar 2005)

>I wondr why people leave luggage when there are theives about, maybe we
>shoudl all just nick people left items?
>
>Also why worry about unnattended bags, is this in case the sucide bomber got
>scared and went chicken and decided to leve bomb behind?, some marter.




I do wonder why all the warnings, as if people want to leave their bags
on a train.  What is the point of warning people not to do something
that they would only ever do by accident?  I need my bag.  If I leave
it on a train, other people's suspicions are not as important to me as
my wallet/meeting papers/lunch.

"David Hansen"  wrote in message
news:rqome15fpsmj7ib5g6t8ale24dgsojqepr@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:04:51 +0100 someone who may be "Nick Pedley"
>  wrote this:-
>
> >> What's the exact difference between a station litter bin and one in a
> >> busy shopping street?
> >>
> >I'd guess less than 30 metres in a lot of cases, mainly central London
> >stations.
>
> If we remove the words busy and shopping there are cases where the
> difference is one or two metres.
>

The small bins at tube stations are/were emptied into large lockable wheelie
bins, mostly parked outside tube stations in the car parks. Unfortunately,
not all the large wheelie bins are locked, as I have found on several
occasions when walking past with rubbish.

Nick

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:05:53 +0100 someone who may be Ross
 wrote this:-


>So, knowing that (a) to pick up rubbish on the line, the line has to
>be closed and (b) that won't make the railway provide litter bins, you
>still kick rubbish on the line.


Correct. 

And the reason that I will continue to do so is that I have seen
someone slip on rubbish and fall on the line, far fetched as it
sounds. Fortunately the woman who fell onto the line was able to get
back on the platform quickly.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In message , at 
15:45:55 on Sat, 30 Jul 2005, MIG  
remarked:

>I do wonder why all the warnings, as if people want to leave their bags
>on a train.  What is the point of warning people not to do something
>that they would only ever do by accident?  I need my bag.  If I leave
>it on a train, other people's suspicions are not as important to me as
>my wallet/meeting papers/lunch.


It's like the traffic news people asking drivers to avoid the North 
Circular. Everyone who possibly can, already is!
-- 
Roland Perry

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:57:15 +0100, David Hansen
 wrote:


>And the reason that I will continue to do so is that I have seen
>someone slip on rubbish and fall on the line, far fetched as it
>sounds. Fortunately the woman who fell onto the line was able to get
>back on the platform quickly.


The rubbish is presumably best relocated to somewhere not in the way
on the platform, such as under or behind the seats or on a suitable
ledge.  That way, no-one will trip on it, and it will be easier to
collect.

The thread, incidentally, reminds me of waiting at Liege-Guillemins
for the overnight to Hamburg in September 1999.  The trains were still
running (albeit infrequently at that time of night), but station staff
were down on the track picking up rubbish.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:57:15 +0100, David Hansen wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:05:53 +0100 someone who may be Ross
>  wrote this:-
> 
> >So, knowing that (a) to pick up rubbish on the line, the line has to
> >be closed and (b) that won't make the railway provide litter bins, you
> >still kick rubbish on the line.
> 
> Correct. 
> 
> And the reason that I will continue to do so is that I have seen
> someone slip on rubbish and fall on the line, far fetched as it
> sounds. 


So the logical response is to kick any such rubbish to the other side
of the platform (if a single face) or the centre (if an island) where
it's out of people's way but still available for picking up without a
possession.

I think the truth is that you're more interested in making what you
think is a point (even when you know full well it is pointless doing
so) than actually doing anything useful.

-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:28:13 +0100 someone who may be Ross
 wrote this:-


>So the logical response is to kick any such rubbish to the other side
>of the platform (if a single face) or the centre (if an island) where
>it's out of people's way but still available for picking up without a
>possession.


That rather depends on how wide and busy the platform is.

A quiet platform somewhere in the countryside with all trains
stopping at it is different to a narrow platform that can be
"dangerously" overcrowded and is regularly passed by trains running
at considerable speed.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen wrote:

> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:28:13 +0100 someone who may be Ross
>  wrote this:-
>
> >So the logical response is to kick any such rubbish to the other side
> >of the platform (if a single face) or the centre (if an island) where
> >it's out of people's way but still available for picking up without a
> >possession.
>
> That rather depends on how wide and busy the platform is.
>
> A quiet platform somewhere in the countryside with all trains
> stopping at it is different to a narrow platform that can be
> "dangerously" overcrowded and is regularly passed by trains running
> at considerable speed.




The underlying point of all this, rather than the specific merits of
exactly where rubbish is dumped, should really be that the reaction to
the risk of bombs is to replace it with the risks (and unpleasantness)
of rubbish with no bins.  Has this been assessed (if it can be)?

It could well be that more people have been killed by litter on the
railway system (even with bins) than by bombs.  Such as it catching
fire, falling over it, getting diseases from rats attracted to it,
getting hit by trains while retrieving it, impaling oneself on sharp,
diseased bits of it while retrieving it etc.

MIG writes

>
>
>The underlying point of all this, rather than the specific merits of
>exactly where rubbish is dumped, should really be that the reaction to
>the risk of bombs is to replace it with the risks (and unpleasantness)
>of rubbish with no bins.  Has this been assessed (if it can be)?
>
>It could well be that more people have been killed by litter on the
>railway system (even with bins) than by bombs.  Such as it catching
>fire, falling over it, getting diseases from rats attracted to it,
>getting hit by trains while retrieving it, impaling oneself on sharp,
>diseased bits of it while retrieving it etc.
>

  Well if the mice found on Goat Island ever found a way to get to these 
shores we might have a problem.
  According to scientists studying bird populations these mice have
evolved into carnivores and will happily eat to death baby Albatross
chicks which on a weight to weight ratio far exceed the mouse.
  But then the mouse on Goat island doesn't have any natural predators.

>  Well if the mice found on Goat Island ever found a way to get to >these
>shores we might have a problem.
> According to scientists studying bird populations these mice have
>evolved into carnivores and will happily eat to death baby Albatross
>chicks which on a weight to weight ratio far exceed the mouse.
> But then the mouse on Goat island doesn't have any natural >predators.



It's about time that our cats were armed.

MIG wrote:


> SET also stopped hanging clear bin liners from its station fences.  A
> couple of yards the other side of the fences there would still be very
> solid, opaque, local council bins though.


The number of places one could hide a suspect package is not quite
endless, but pretty damn close. Removing bins isn't going to stop
them.
 

> Will they unscrew the bins incorporated in perch seats in 376s I wonder?


HT have locked the bins on their trains closed.

-- 
                          Stevie D
    \\\\\       /////     Bringing dating agencies to the
   \\\\\\\__X__///////    common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Stevie D wrote:


> 
> HT have locked the bins on their trains closed.
> 


And MML have taken the radical step of sticking insulating tape over the 
flaps, not the most 'positive' of actions!

Sam