Just bringing this to people's attention.

I have managed to get a First class return ticket to St Pancras from 
Loughborough for 25. It'd normally cost me 80+

Joe

"Joe Hunt"  wrote in message 
news:3kpso5Fvmil5U1@individual.net...

> Just bringing this to people's attention.
>
> I have managed to get a First class return ticket to St Pancras from 
> Loughborough for 25. It'd normally cost me 80+
>
> Joe

No it wouldn't. Your special offer ticket will only be valid on the stated 
trains, therefore your comparison should be with the First Apex ticket which 
is much cheaper than 80. I don't know what it is from Loughborough - 
probaly about 35.

Peter Fox

In message <dc8jhh$77i$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, at 
18:24:50 on Wed, 27 Jul 2005, Peter Fox  
remarked:

>
>"Joe Hunt"  wrote in message
>news:3kpso5Fvmil5U1@individual.net...
>> Just bringing this to people's attention.
>>
>> I have managed to get a First class return ticket to St Pancras from
>> Loughborough for 25. It'd normally cost me 80+
>>
>> Joe
>No it wouldn't. Your special offer ticket will only be valid on the stated
>trains, therefore your comparison should be with the First Apex ticket which
>is much cheaper than 80. I don't know what it is from Loughborough -
>probaly about 35.


Well said.

I've been able to get a very good price *when* it's possible to predict 
the exact trains I would be catching. But it doesn't happen very often 
(the ability to predict, not the need to travel).

-- 
Roland Perry

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:30:24 +0100, Roland Perry 
wrote:


>In message <dc8jhh$77i$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, at 
>18:24:50 on Wed, 27 Jul 2005, Peter Fox  
>remarked:
>>
>>"Joe Hunt"  wrote in message
>>news:3kpso5Fvmil5U1@individual.net...
>>> Just bringing this to people's attention.
>>>
>>> I have managed to get a First class return ticket to St Pancras from
>>> Loughborough for 25. It'd normally cost me 80+
>>>
>>> Joe
>>No it wouldn't. Your special offer ticket will only be valid on the stated
>>trains, therefore your comparison should be with the First Apex ticket which
>>is much cheaper than 80. I don't know what it is from Loughborough -
>>probaly about 35.
>
>Well said.
>
>I've been able to get a very good price *when* it's possible to predict 
>the exact trains I would be catching. But it doesn't happen very often 
>(the ability to predict, not the need to travel).


Happens more often than not, at least in my case. I'm off to London
for the Great British Beer Festival and it is easy for me to decide in
advance what train would be suitable.

To avoid traveling with Virgin - I'm going Manchester to London - and
giving the bearded grinner my hard earned in his cramped and over
priced Pendolinos, I'm going Midland Mainline 1st Class for 46 via
Sheffield. Better than paying him anything and the extra hour or so is
neither here nor there to me. I suspect a lot of leisure travellers
are in the same position.

It is a pity that MML does not do the whole Manchester - London bit
any more. This line needs competition. As far as I can tell there is
no cheap or cheapish advance purchase 1st Class tickets on this run at
all despite there being twice as many trains and presumably in off
peak many unfilled first class seats. Incidentally I do use this
service for work reasons - I'm not paying obviously - and the number
of unfilled seats at off peak times seems excessive. Why no Apex First
class?

First post here so that's done!

Peter

In message , at 10:12:24 on 
Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Peter Alexander  remarked:

>>I've been able to get a very good price *when* it's possible to predict
>>the exact trains I would be catching. But it doesn't happen very often
>>(the ability to predict, not the need to travel).
>
>Happens more often than not, at least in my case. I'm off to London
>for the Great British Beer Festival and it is easy for me to decide in
>advance what train would be suitable.


And then all you need is availability. I've often found no availability 
for the MML extra-cheap fares on the trains I am able to predict needing 
to use. Of course, depending on your situation something like the GBBF 
could give you a choice of days on which to travel. I'm usually going to 
meetings, so no luck. Some people might say that wasn't a leisure trip, 
and so I shouldn't deserve the cheap fare. I'd say it was voluntary 
work, so I do! <etc>
-- 
Roland Perry

"Peter Alexander"  wrote in message 
news:il7he1hh85sf9eef4gv166tlfnoh4eniht@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:30:24 +0100, Roland Perry 
> wrote:
>
> To avoid traveling with Virgin - I'm going Manchester to London - and
> giving the bearded grinner my hard earned in his cramped and over
> priced Pendolinos, I'm going Midland Mainline 1st Class for 46 via
> Sheffield. Better than paying him anything and the extra hour or so is
> neither here nor there to me. I suspect a lot of leisure travellers
> are in the same position.
>
> It is a pity that MML does not do the whole Manchester - London bit
> any more. This line needs competition. As far as I can tell there is
> no cheap or cheapish advance purchase 1st Class tickets on this run at
> all despite there being twice as many trains and presumably in off
> peak many unfilled first class seats. Incidentally I do use this
> service for work reasons - I'm not paying obviously - and the number
> of unfilled seats at off peak times seems excessive. Why no Apex First
> class?
>
> First post here so that's done!
>
> Peter


Peter,

I often do the Manchester to Loughborough route, which either changes in 
Nottingham or Sheffield, as I am at university there. The Central Trains 
service through the Peak District is very popular linking Sheffield and 
Manchester and I have often wondered why no other companies do it. Anyone 
have any answers ? A faster service through there with options for First 
Class (they don't do it on this trek do they?) and Virgin or MML trains 
would be very nice.

Joe

"Joe Hunt"  wrote:


>
>"Peter Alexander"  wrote in message 
>news:il7he1hh85sf9eef4gv166tlfnoh4eniht@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:30:24 +0100, Roland Perry 
>> wrote:
>>
>> To avoid traveling with Virgin - I'm going Manchester to London - and
>> giving the bearded grinner my hard earned in his cramped and over
>> priced Pendolinos, I'm going Midland Mainline 1st Class for 46 via
>> Sheffield. Better than paying him anything and the extra hour or so is
>> neither here nor there to me. I suspect a lot of leisure travellers
>> are in the same position.
>>
>> It is a pity that MML does not do the whole Manchester - London bit
>> any more. This line needs competition. As far as I can tell there is
>> no cheap or cheapish advance purchase 1st Class tickets on this run at
>> all despite there being twice as many trains and presumably in off
>> peak many unfilled first class seats. Incidentally I do use this
>> service for work reasons - I'm not paying obviously - and the number
>> of unfilled seats at off peak times seems excessive. Why no Apex First
>> class?
>>
>> First post here so that's done!
>>
>> Peter
>
>Peter,
>
>I often do the Manchester to Loughborough route, which either changes in 
>Nottingham or Sheffield, as I am at university there. The Central Trains 
>service through the Peak District is very popular linking Sheffield and 
>Manchester and I have often wondered why no other companies do it. Anyone 
>have any answers ? A faster service through there with options for First 
>Class (they don't do it on this trek do they?) and Virgin or MML trains 
>would be very nice.



It was apparently a condition of the Virgin West Coast franchise that
no competing services to Manchester would be offered from the Midland
Main Line.  Apparently Virgin insisted on this condition, and got it,
so that there would be no competition for the extremely expensive
Pendolino service between Manchester and London Euston.  

That was a dark day for rail travel, in so many ways.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:57:31 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:


>It was apparently a condition of the Virgin West Coast franchise that
>no competing services to Manchester would be offered from the Midland
>Main Line.  Apparently Virgin insisted on this condition, and got it,
>so that there would be no competition for the extremely expensive
>Pendolino service between Manchester and London Euston.  


Indeed...And who headed up Virgin's Legal Team during this negotiation?
One Tom Winsor, who later became Rail Regulator and, of course, saw no
reason to change the Status Quo whilst he was in that post...

Cheers,

Barry

-- 
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

Barry Salter  wrote:


>On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:57:31 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:
>
>>It was apparently a condition of the Virgin West Coast franchise that
>>no competing services to Manchester would be offered from the Midland
>>Main Line.  Apparently Virgin insisted on this condition, and got it,
>>so that there would be no competition for the extremely expensive
>>Pendolino service between Manchester and London Euston.  
>
>Indeed...And who headed up Virgin's Legal Team during this negotiation?
>One Tom Winsor, who later became Rail Regulator and, of course, saw no
>reason to change the Status Quo whilst he was in that post...



Exactly, Barry.  I am no fan of Mr Winsor's.  Everything he touched
seemed to cost the taxpayer billions of pounds.

I think history will judge the combination of Bowker at the Strategic
Rail Authority and Winsor at the Office of Rail Regulation to have
been an extremely destructive one.

Peter Fox wrote:


> No it wouldn't. Your special offer ticket will only be valid on the stated
> trains, therefore your comparison should be with the First Apex ticket which
> is much cheaper than 80. I don't know what it is from Loughborough -
> probaly about 35.


First Apex between Loughborough and St. Pancras is GBP39. There's also a
"London Weekend First Class" at GBP27 and First Capital at GBP31.
Details taken from a MML fares leaflet which I obtained at St Pancras
recently.

-- 
John Ray, London UK.

In article ,
Roland Perry   wrote:


>And then all you need is availability. I've often found no availability 
>for the MML extra-cheap fares


Apologies but I would cut your paragraph off there, Roland.  It's a
long while since I found an MML fare on a train, for one person or two,
actually available and costing less than 35 quid (cost of driving plus
parking plus two travelcards).  I've never found one in the last year
when I needed it.  Maybe the middle of the morning and a 3.50 pm return
is peak period for MML.  The MML site refuses to tell me about them so
I have to guess via the Trainline, but haven't been successful.


>                              on the trains I am able to predict needing 
>to use.


Nick
-- 
http://www.leverton.org/                      ... So express yourself

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:35:39 +0100, John Ray
 wrote:


>Peter Fox wrote:
>
>> No it wouldn't. Your special offer ticket will only be valid on the stated
>> trains, therefore your comparison should be with the First Apex ticket which
>> is much cheaper than 80. I don't know what it is from Loughborough -
>> probaly about 35.
>
>First Apex between Loughborough and St. Pancras is GBP39. There's also a
>"London Weekend First Class" at GBP27 and First Capital at GBP31.
>Details taken from a MML fares leaflet which I obtained at St Pancras
>recently.


Going back to my earlier point, does anyone know why there are no (or
seem to be no)1st class Apex fares on Virgin West Coast?

Peter

nick@leverton.org (Nick Leverton) wrote:


>In article ,
>Roland Perry   wrote:
>
>>And then all you need is availability. I've often found no availability 
>>for the MML extra-cheap fares
>
>Apologies but I would cut your paragraph off there, Roland.  It's a
>long while since I found an MML fare on a train, for one person or two,
>actually available and costing less than 35 quid (cost of driving plus
>parking plus two travelcards).  I've never found one in the last year
>when I needed it.  Maybe the middle of the morning and a 3.50 pm return
>is peak period for MML.  The MML site refuses to tell me about them so
>I have to guess via the Trainline, but haven't been successful.



I found - on the Trainline - a bargain MML 1st class saver return from
Bedford to Sheffield for the princely sum of 28.  I checked it was
not an advance purchase fare, and that it was valid on the trains I
wished to travel on, but elected to buy it at the station as I was
travelling the following morning.

On arrival at Bedford station, the ticket clerk (Thameslink) had never
heard of this fare, and could not get it to display on her screen,
despite trying for over ten minutes.  So I bought a standard saver
instead, alas for more than 28.

"Peter Alexander"  wrote

>
> Going back to my earlier point, does anyone know why there are no (or
> seem to be no)1st class Apex fares on Virgin West Coast?
>

Look for single tickets. VVs (standard and first versions) are only sold as
singles, but they are available. Sometimes you'll even find that the
cheapest available first class ticket is cheaper than the cheapest available
standard class one.

Peter

In message <dcbn4i$vom$3@hub.home>, at 22:44:34 on Thu, 28 Jul 2005, 
Nick Leverton  remarked:

>>And then all you need is availability. I've often found no availability
>>for the MML extra-cheap fares
>
>Apologies but I would cut your paragraph off there, Roland.


That's OK.


>It's a
>long while since I found an MML fare on a train, for one person or two,
>actually available and costing less than 35 quid (cost of driving plus
>parking plus two travelcards).  I've never found one in the last year
>when I needed it.


I've only been using MML for about 11 months, and I've found (I think) 
two instances of very-cheap fares that were useful to me.


>Maybe the middle of the morning and a 3.50 pm return
>is peak period for MML.  The MML site refuses to tell me about them so
>I have to guess via the Trainline, but haven't been successful.


I booked mine through the MML site. If the tickets are available, it 
does tell you.

I've just checked for a trip I'll be doing in a few week's time, and it 
does offer me a 15 ticket for the journey up in the mid-morning, but 
not a sensible train back in the evening.

The cheapest roundtrip ticket that's almost useful is a 20 Capital 
(which is cheaper than the 28 Apex). Although both are a bit tight for 
getting to my meeting, and I'd really prefer at least another 
half-hour's slack, especially given the state of the Underground at the 
moment.

So I've got a feeling that I'll be going for a 44 saver, the cheapest 
ticket with any availability on an earlier train in the morning.

As is usually the case, I've confirmed that MML's cheapest tickets are 
simply useless if you are trying to get somewhere in London before 2pm 
and not get home after 11pm. (The first train with availability for the 
promotional tickets in the evening that day is the 20.55 departure, arr 
Nottingham 22.40, which means getting home at about 23.20 - which might 
be OK if it was very much a one-off, but not if it's just another 
working day).
-- 
Roland Perry

>
>>And then all you need is availability. I've often found no availability 
>>for the MML extra-cheap fares
>

Do MML still do the weekend 1st offers where's you can travel FC for a
extra fiver ????

Thanks
-- 
TD
Please observe reply to address for emails

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:44:29 GMT, TD wrote:


>>
>>>And then all you need is availability. I've often found no availability 
>>>for the MML extra-cheap fares
>>
> Do MML still do the weekend 1st offers where's you can travel FC for a
> extra fiver ????


My newsreader (40tude dialog - and I definitely recommend it) has a
feature which decodes usenet acronyms. It tells me that "FC" should be
interpreted as "fingers crossed". I don't think you need to pay any
extra for that. ;-)
-- 
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683748.html
(142 049 at Manchester Piccadilly, 7 Sep 2001)

TD wrote:

> >
> Do MML still do the weekend 1st offers where's you can travel FC for a
> extra fiver ????


Yes, except that it was 6 when I travelled from Derby to London 3 weeks
ago.

-- 
John Ray, London UK.

Tony Polson wrote:

> Barry Salter  wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:57:31 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It was apparently a condition of the Virgin West Coast franchise that
>>>no competing services to Manchester would be offered from the Midland
>>>Main Line.  Apparently Virgin insisted on this condition, and got it,
>>>so that there would be no competition for the extremely expensive
>>>Pendolino service between Manchester and London Euston.  
>>
>>Indeed...And who headed up Virgin's Legal Team during this negotiation?
>>One Tom Winsor, who later became Rail Regulator and, of course, saw no
>>reason to change the Status Quo whilst he was in that post...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, Barry.  I am no fan of Mr Winsor's.  Everything he touched
> seemed to cost the taxpayer billions of pounds.
> 
> I think history will judge the combination of Bowker at the Strategic
> Rail Authority and Winsor at the Office of Rail Regulation to have
> been an extremely destructive one.


Wasn't it also thanks to him that the Gatwick/Brighton<->Rugby service 
got truncated to Watford?

Ok mate thanks for the sensible answer.

Cheers 

BS


>> Do MML still do the weekend 1st offers where's you can travel FC for a
>> extra fiver ????
>
>Yes, except that it was 6 when I travelled from Derby to London 3 weeks
>ago.
>


-- 
TD
Please observe reply to address for emails

>In message <dcbn4i$vom$3@hub.home>, at 22:44:34 on Thu, 28 Jul 2005, 
>Nick Leverton  remarked:

>>It's a long while since I found an MML fare on a train, for one person 
>>or two, actually available and costing less than 35 quid (cost of 
>>driving plus parking plus two travelcards).  I've never found one in 
>>the last year when I needed it.


And earlier I replied:


>I've only been using MML for about 11 months, and I've found (I think) 
>two instances of very-cheap fares that were useful to me.


Credit where credit is due, I found a ticket (25 1st return Nottingham 
London) for next week, and on the trains I would have used anyway. As 
I've commented before, this 1st class fare is cheaper than any currently 
available 2nd class fair on those trains.
-- 
Roland Perry