I want to cut into the soil pipe running from house to the main sewer on the
road, and add a 45 degree branch that will go to a new inspection chamber
and then to an outside toilet that I am going to install at the end of my
garage. Having dug down and uncovered the soil pipe in the appropriate place
I see that, as expected, the drains are the older type 5 inch pipes (the
house is just over 30 years old). My question is about soil pipe sizes: are
the 110 mm plastic underground drainage pipes compatible with the older
type - that is, will the female collar accept the existing pipes, or if not
how do you get around this?

"Barney"  wrote in message
news:bKmdnYLOc4NJ0XjfRVnyhg@brightview.com...

> I want to cut into the soil pipe running from house to the main sewer on
the
> road, and add a 45 degree branch that will go to a new inspection chamber
> and then to an outside toilet that I am going to install at the end of my
> garage. Having dug down and uncovered the soil pipe in the appropriate
place
> I see that, as expected, the drains are the older type 5 inch pipes (the
> house is just over 30 years old). My question is about soil pipe sizes:
are
> the 110 mm plastic underground drainage pipes compatible with the older
> type - that is, will the female collar accept the existing pipes, or if
not
> how do you get around this?
>
>


Are the drain pipes earthen ware or plastic?  All makers always have their
own specific little differences in the fitting design and styles of their
pipework, so try to get a makers name off the pipes, usually printed along
the length somewhere, and obtain the proper fittings needed for the job
you're doing.  This way you know the fitting are meant for the pipes you
have, so you shouldn't have any problems with them.

Earthen ware to plastic joints can be tricky, so make sure you have proper
seal rings and things at hand before you start the job, because it is always
the case that something won't be just big or small enough and you don't have
seal boot that you can place over the joint to allow you to finish up.

The best way is to match fittings by makers name, and you should be able to
finish in no time.

"BigWallop"  wrote in message
news:09fFe.77192$G8.41690@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "Barney"  wrote in message
> news:bKmdnYLOc4NJ0XjfRVnyhg@brightview.com...
> > I want to cut into the soil pipe running from house to the main sewer on
> the
> > road, and add a 45 degree branch that will go to a new inspection
chamber
> > and then to an outside toilet that I am going to install at the end of
my
> > garage. Having dug down and uncovered the soil pipe in the appropriate
> place
> > I see that, as expected, the drains are the older type 5 inch pipes (the
> > house is just over 30 years old). My question is about soil pipe sizes:
> are
> > the 110 mm plastic underground drainage pipes compatible with the older
> > type - that is, will the female collar accept the existing pipes, or if
> not
> > how do you get around this?
> >
> >
>
> Are the drain pipes earthen ware or plastic?  All makers always have their
> own specific little differences in the fitting design and styles of their
> pipework, so try to get a makers name off the pipes, usually printed along
> the length somewhere, and obtain the proper fittings needed for the job
> you're doing.  This way you know the fitting are meant for the pipes you
> have, so you shouldn't have any problems with them.
>
> Earthen ware to plastic joints can be tricky, so make sure you have proper
> seal rings and things at hand before you start the job, because it is
always
> the case that something won't be just big or small enough and you don't
have
> seal boot that you can place over the joint to allow you to finish up.
>
> The best way is to match fittings by makers name, and you should be able
to
> finish in no time.
>


The existing pipes are earthenware, the outside diameter being exactly 5
inches. Along the length of pipe that I've uncovered - about a metre - I
can't see any maker's name. I was wondering, that if I could get a plastic
junction to fit approximately, would it be acceptable to (carefully) encase
it in concrete?

"Barney"  wrote in message
news:FpidnXHoveHFZHjfRVnyug@brightview.com...

>
> "BigWallop"  wrote in message
> news:09fFe.77192$G8.41690@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > "Barney"  wrote in message
> > news:bKmdnYLOc4NJ0XjfRVnyhg@brightview.com...
> > > I want to cut into the soil pipe running from house to the main sewer
on
> > the
> > > road, and add a 45 degree branch that will go to a new inspection
> chamber
> > > and then to an outside toilet that I am going to install at the end of
> my
> > > garage. Having dug down and uncovered the soil pipe in the appropriate
> > place
> > > I see that, as expected, the drains are the older type 5 inch pipes
(the
> > > house is just over 30 years old). My question is about soil pipe
sizes:
> > are
> > > the 110 mm plastic underground drainage pipes compatible with the
older
> > > type - that is, will the female collar accept the existing pipes, or
if
> > not
> > > how do you get around this?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Are the drain pipes earthen ware or plastic?  All makers always have
their
> > own specific little differences in the fitting design and styles of
their
> > pipework, so try to get a makers name off the pipes, usually printed
along
> > the length somewhere, and obtain the proper fittings needed for the job
> > you're doing.  This way you know the fitting are meant for the pipes you
> > have, so you shouldn't have any problems with them.
> >
> > Earthen ware to plastic joints can be tricky, so make sure you have
proper
> > seal rings and things at hand before you start the job, because it is
> always
> > the case that something won't be just big or small enough and you don't
> have
> > seal boot that you can place over the joint to allow you to finish up.
> >
> > The best way is to match fittings by makers name, and you should be able
> to
> > finish in no time.
> >
>
> The existing pipes are earthenware, the outside diameter being exactly 5
> inches. Along the length of pipe that I've uncovered - about a metre - I
> can't see any maker's name. I was wondering, that if I could get a plastic
> junction to fit approximately, would it be acceptable to (carefully)
encase
> it in concrete?
>


The words "roughly" and "just about" are not something you should do on
drainage systems mate.  They can contain explosive gases and need to be
secure enough not to break if ignited.  Any weak spots then become very
vulnerable indeed.  Drainage systems need to be securely water and gas tight
along their full length.  They also have to have as smooth an internal
surface as is at all possible to create.  If you can't get the system as
close to this as you can, then you are giving yourself major problems in the
future.

Drainage pipes contain smelly vapours and, as I said before, can contain a
build up of explosive gases, so any weak spots can make the whole thing a
time bomb just waiting to go off.  Any differences in the height, size or
shape of a joint can cause solid waste products to catch and stick, which in
turn catches more and more debris that flows along the pipe.  This only
leads to continual blockages and head aches and it should be avoided
completely.

Earthen ware pipe and fittings are cheap from any good plumbers merchant,
and when you compare price to the length of time they last under ground,
then work out as great value for money.  It is always best to make the job
properly and cut down on the problems that can arise in the future if it is
done incorrectly.  It's the sort of job you want to do only once and then
forget it, so do it right first time and don't have the hassle later.

Find a source for the pipework and fittings first.  The pipe you have sounds
like standard old style terrain drain stock, so should be easily obtained.
You need a TEE fitting and Slip Spigot fitting for the job.  The TEE fitting
is obvious, but the Slip Spigot is a different story.

A Slip Spigot is just a circle fitting that slides over the end of a plain
cut section of pipe.  it allows you to cut out a section to install the TEE
then slide it back over the end and caulk the joints between them tightly
and securely.  This keeps the internal diameter of the pipework all the same
and ensures that the solid waste will slide away without problems.

The whole of the section you install can then be encased in a concrete
coffin to make sure the whole thing stays level and doesn't sink when the
surrounding soil is back filled and compressed.  The new TEE branch you
install can then have pretty standard reducers fitted that will bring the
sizes down to the diameter you need for the new section to your appliances,
from there on.

So find a good source for all the fitting you'll need first, and you should
be able to install the whole thing without having to bodge anything.  Don't
give yourself problems in the future.

Good luck with it.

"BigWallop"  wrote in message 
news:AFsFe.77480$G8.66701@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "Barney"  wrote in message
> news:FpidnXHoveHFZHjfRVnyug@brightview.com...
>>
>> "BigWallop"  wrote in message
>> news:09fFe.77192$G8.41690@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> >
>> > "Barney"  wrote in message
>> > news:bKmdnYLOc4NJ0XjfRVnyhg@brightview.com...
>> > > I want to cut into the soil pipe running from house to the main sewer
> on
>> > the
>> > > road, and add a 45 degree branch that will go to a new inspection
>> chamber
>> > > and then to an outside toilet that I am going to install at the end 
>> > > of
>> my
>> > > garage. Having dug down and uncovered the soil pipe in the 
>> > > appropriate
>> > place
>> > > I see that, as expected, the drains are the older type 5 inch pipes
> (the
>> > > house is just over 30 years old). My question is about soil pipe
> sizes:
>> > are
>> > > the 110 mm plastic underground drainage pipes compatible with the
> older
>> > > type - that is, will the female collar accept the existing pipes, or
> if
>> > not
>> > > how do you get around this?
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > Are the drain pipes earthen ware or plastic?  All makers always have
> their
>> > own specific little differences in the fitting design and styles of
> their
>> > pipework, so try to get a makers name off the pipes, usually printed
> along
>> > the length somewhere, and obtain the proper fittings needed for the job
>> > you're doing.  This way you know the fitting are meant for the pipes 
>> > you
>> > have, so you shouldn't have any problems with them.
>> >
>> > Earthen ware to plastic joints can be tricky, so make sure you have
> proper
>> > seal rings and things at hand before you start the job, because it is
>> always
>> > the case that something won't be just big or small enough and you don't
>> have
>> > seal boot that you can place over the joint to allow you to finish up.
>> >
>> > The best way is to match fittings by makers name, and you should be 
>> > able
>> to
>> > finish in no time.
>> >
>>
>> The existing pipes are earthenware, the outside diameter being exactly 5
>> inches. Along the length of pipe that I've uncovered - about a metre - I
>> can't see any maker's name. I was wondering, that if I could get a 
>> plastic
>> junction to fit approximately, would it be acceptable to (carefully)
> encase
>> it in concrete?
>>
>
> The words "roughly" and "just about" are not something you should do on
> drainage systems mate.  They can contain explosive gases and need to be
> secure enough not to break if ignited.  Any weak spots then become very
> vulnerable indeed.


<gulp>  Is the water in the seal at the bottom of the pan not a weak spot 
<gulp>  should one refrain from sitting on it <gulp> the mind boggles <gulp>
-- 
Keith Willcocks
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)

"Keith Willcocks"  wrote in message
news:dc5rbk$br$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>

<<<snipped>>>

> > The words "roughly" and "just about" are not something you should do on
> > drainage systems mate.  They can contain explosive gases and need to be
> > secure enough not to break if ignited.  Any weak spots then become very
> > vulnerable indeed.
>
> <gulp>  Is the water in the seal at the bottom of the pan not a weak spot
> <gulp>  should one refrain from sitting on it <gulp> the mind boggles
<gulp>
>
> Keith Willcocks
>


I've actually seen the aftermath of water blown out of all the traps on a
remote farm, so sitting quietly reading the paper at the time might have
been an experience.  :-)  This is supposed to have happened because of a
mile long build up of the waste flushed down from the farm into the drainage
system.  It had all gathered against a small blockage that was only allowing
a trickle of water to seep by, but was holding back the solid waste.

The build up of gases from the solid waste soon made short work of emptying
the pipes when it ignited though.  :-) LOL  Oh my, how we all laughed.  :-)

"BigWallop"  wrote in message
news:AFsFe.77480$G8.66701@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> "Barney"  wrote in message
> news:FpidnXHoveHFZHjfRVnyug@brightview.com...
> >
> > "BigWallop"  wrote in message
> > news:09fFe.77192$G8.41690@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > >
> > > "Barney"  wrote in message
> > > news:bKmdnYLOc4NJ0XjfRVnyhg@brightview.com...
> > > > I want to cut into the soil pipe running from house to the main
sewer
> on
> > > the
> > > > road, and add a 45 degree branch that will go to a new inspection
> > chamber
> > > > and then to an outside toilet that I am going to install at the end
of
> > my
> > > > garage. Having dug down and uncovered the soil pipe in the
appropriate
> > > place
> > > > I see that, as expected, the drains are the older type 5 inch pipes
> (the
> > > > house is just over 30 years old). My question is about soil pipe
> sizes:
> > > are
> > > > the 110 mm plastic underground drainage pipes compatible with the
> older
> > > > type - that is, will the female collar accept the existing pipes, or
> if
> > > not
> > > > how do you get around this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Are the drain pipes earthen ware or plastic?  All makers always have
> their
> > > own specific little differences in the fitting design and styles of
> their
> > > pipework, so try to get a makers name off the pipes, usually printed
> along
> > > the length somewhere, and obtain the proper fittings needed for the
job
> > > you're doing.  This way you know the fitting are meant for the pipes
you
> > > have, so you shouldn't have any problems with them.
> > >
> > > Earthen ware to plastic joints can be tricky, so make sure you have
> proper
> > > seal rings and things at hand before you start the job, because it is
> > always
> > > the case that something won't be just big or small enough and you
don't
> > have
> > > seal boot that you can place over the joint to allow you to finish up.
> > >
> > > The best way is to match fittings by makers name, and you should be
able
> > to
> > > finish in no time.
> > >
> >
> > The existing pipes are earthenware, the outside diameter being exactly 5
> > inches. Along the length of pipe that I've uncovered - about a metre - I
> > can't see any maker's name. I was wondering, that if I could get a
plastic
> > junction to fit approximately, would it be acceptable to (carefully)
> encase
> > it in concrete?
> >
>
> The words "roughly" and "just about" are not something you should do on
> drainage systems mate.  They can contain explosive gases and need to be
> secure enough not to break if ignited.  Any weak spots then become very
> vulnerable indeed.  Drainage systems need to be securely water and gas
tight
> along their full length.  They also have to have as smooth an internal
> surface as is at all possible to create.  If you can't get the system as
> close to this as you can, then you are giving yourself major problems in
the
> future.


>
> Drainage pipes contain smelly vapours and, as I said before, can contain a
> build up of explosive gases, so any weak spots can make the whole thing a
> time bomb just waiting to go off.  Any differences in the height, size or
> shape of a joint can cause solid waste products to catch and stick, which
in
> turn catches more and more debris that flows along the pipe.  This only
> leads to continual blockages and head aches and it should be avoided
> completely.
>
> Earthen ware pipe and fittings are cheap from any good plumbers merchant,
> and when you compare price to the length of time they last under ground,
> then work out as great value for money.  It is always best to make the job
> properly and cut down on the problems that can arise in the future if it
is
> done incorrectly.  It's the sort of job you want to do only once and then
> forget it, so do it right first time and don't have the hassle later.
>
> Find a source for the pipework and fittings first.  The pipe you have
sounds
> like standard old style terrain drain stock, so should be easily obtained.
> You need a TEE fitting and Slip Spigot fitting for the job.  The TEE
fitting
> is obvious, but the Slip Spigot is a different story.
>
> A Slip Spigot is just a circle fitting that slides over the end of a plain
> cut section of pipe.  it allows you to cut out a section to install the
TEE
> then slide it back over the end and caulk the joints between them tightly
> and securely.  This keeps the internal diameter of the pipework all the
same
> and ensures that the solid waste will slide away without problems.
>
> The whole of the section you install can then be encased in a concrete
> coffin to make sure the whole thing stays level and doesn't sink when the
> surrounding soil is back filled and compressed.  The new TEE branch you
> install can then have pretty standard reducers fitted that will bring the
> sizes down to the diameter you need for the new section to your
appliances,
> from there on.
>
> So find a good source for all the fitting you'll need first, and you
should
> be able to install the whole thing without having to bodge anything.
Don't
> give yourself problems in the future.
>
> Good luck with it.
>
>

I certainly wasn't going to 'bodge' anything, neither do I do anything
'roughly'. What I had in mind was to encase the joint completely in
concrete, which I've done in the past - and which lasted for several years
without problems. Actually I've done drainage jobs like this for almost
fifty years, including installing septic tanks, but I haven't done any for a
little while so I was simply hoping to be pointed in the direction of a
suitable adaptor between clay pipes and 110 mm plastic - I've now found the
thing I want at Toolstation. Most of what you say above is absolute
bollocks - and self-important bollocks at that. This is household drainage
not a bloody oil supply line - 'gas tight' indeed. The whole needs to be -
and will be - vented for a start. This newsgroup seems to have gone right
down the tubes - I think it should be renamed the Big Wallop copy and paste
from Google page.
Goodbye.

"Barney"  wrote in message
news:RM-dnbBeWYuo7nvfRVnysA@brightview.com...

>
> "BigWallop"  wrote in message
> news:AFsFe.77480$G8.66701@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > "Barney"  wrote in message
> > news:FpidnXHoveHFZHjfRVnyug@brightview.com...
> > >
> > > "BigWallop"  wrote in message
> > > news:09fFe.77192$G8.41690@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > > >
> > > > "Barney"  wrote in message
> > > > news:bKmdnYLOc4NJ0XjfRVnyhg@brightview.com...
> > > > > I want to cut into the soil pipe running from house to the main
> sewer
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > road, and add a 45 degree branch that will go to a new inspection
> > > chamber
> > > > > and then to an outside toilet that I am going to install at the
end
> of
> > > my
> > > > > garage. Having dug down and uncovered the soil pipe in the
> appropriate
> > > > place
> > > > > I see that, as expected, the drains are the older type 5 inch
pipes
> > (the
> > > > > house is just over 30 years old). My question is about soil pipe
> > sizes:
> > > > are
> > > > > the 110 mm plastic underground drainage pipes compatible with the
> > older
> > > > > type - that is, will the female collar accept the existing pipes,
or
> > if
> > > > not
> > > > > how do you get around this?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Are the drain pipes earthen ware or plastic?  All makers always have
> > their
> > > > own specific little differences in the fitting design and styles of
> > their
> > > > pipework, so try to get a makers name off the pipes, usually printed
> > along
> > > > the length somewhere, and obtain the proper fittings needed for the
> job
> > > > you're doing.  This way you know the fitting are meant for the pipes
> you
> > > > have, so you shouldn't have any problems with them.
> > > >
> > > > Earthen ware to plastic joints can be tricky, so make sure you have
> > proper
> > > > seal rings and things at hand before you start the job, because it
is
> > > always
> > > > the case that something won't be just big or small enough and you
> don't
> > > have
> > > > seal boot that you can place over the joint to allow you to finish
up.
> > > >
> > > > The best way is to match fittings by makers name, and you should be
> able
> > > to
> > > > finish in no time.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The existing pipes are earthenware, the outside diameter being exactly
5
> > > inches. Along the length of pipe that I've uncovered - about a metre -
I
> > > can't see any maker's name. I was wondering, that if I could get a
> plastic
> > > junction to fit approximately, would it be acceptable to (carefully)
> > encase
> > > it in concrete?
> > >
> >
> > The words "roughly" and "just about" are not something you should do on
> > drainage systems mate.  They can contain explosive gases and need to be
> > secure enough not to break if ignited.  Any weak spots then become very
> > vulnerable indeed.  Drainage systems need to be securely water and gas
> tight
> > along their full length.  They also have to have as smooth an internal
> > surface as is at all possible to create.  If you can't get the system as
> > close to this as you can, then you are giving yourself major problems in
> the
> > future.
>
>
> >
> > Drainage pipes contain smelly vapours and, as I said before, can contain
a
> > build up of explosive gases, so any weak spots can make the whole thing
a
> > time bomb just waiting to go off.  Any differences in the height, size
or
> > shape of a joint can cause solid waste products to catch and stick,
which
> in
> > turn catches more and more debris that flows along the pipe.  This only
> > leads to continual blockages and head aches and it should be avoided
> > completely.
> >
> > Earthen ware pipe and fittings are cheap from any good plumbers
merchant,
> > and when you compare price to the length of time they last under ground,
> > then work out as great value for money.  It is always best to make the
job
> > properly and cut down on the problems that can arise in the future if it
> is
> > done incorrectly.  It's the sort of job you want to do only once and
then
> > forget it, so do it right first time and don't have the hassle later.
> >
> > Find a source for the pipework and fittings first.  The pipe you have
> sounds
> > like standard old style terrain drain stock, so should be easily
obtained.
> > You need a TEE fitting and Slip Spigot fitting for the job.  The TEE
> fitting
> > is obvious, but the Slip Spigot is a different story.
> >
> > A Slip Spigot is just a circle fitting that slides over the end of a
plain
> > cut section of pipe.  it allows you to cut out a section to install the
> TEE
> > then slide it back over the end and caulk the joints between them
tightly
> > and securely.  This keeps the internal diameter of the pipework all the
> same
> > and ensures that the solid waste will slide away without problems.
> >
> > The whole of the section you install can then be encased in a concrete
> > coffin to make sure the whole thing stays level and doesn't sink when
the
> > surrounding soil is back filled and compressed.  The new TEE branch you
> > install can then have pretty standard reducers fitted that will bring
the
> > sizes down to the diameter you need for the new section to your
> appliances,
> > from there on.
> >
> > So find a good source for all the fitting you'll need first, and you
> should
> > be able to install the whole thing without having to bodge anything.
> Don't
> > give yourself problems in the future.
> >
> > Good luck with it.
> >
> >
> I certainly wasn't going to 'bodge' anything, neither do I do anything
> 'roughly'. What I had in mind was to encase the joint completely in
> concrete, which I've done in the past - and which lasted for several years
> without problems. Actually I've done drainage jobs like this for almost
> fifty years, including installing septic tanks, but I haven't done any for
a
> little while so I was simply hoping to be pointed in the direction of a
> suitable adaptor between clay pipes and 110 mm plastic - I've now found
the
> thing I want at Toolstation. Most of what you say above is absolute
> bollocks - and self-important bollocks at that. This is household drainage
> not a bloody oil supply line - 'gas tight' indeed. The whole needs to be -
> and will be - vented for a start. This newsgroup seems to have gone right
> down the tubes - I think it should be renamed the Big Wallop copy and
paste
> from Google page.
> Goodbye.
>

Bye!!!

BigWallop wrote:
<snip>

> Bye!!!

How about editing out the dross?
You know, like getting rid of waste...
:O)
Gilbert

"Barney"  wrote in message 
news:RM-dnbBeWYuo7nvfRVnysA@brightview.com...
 This newsgroup seems to have gone right

> down the tubes - I think it should be renamed the Big Wallop copy and 
> paste
> from Google page.
> Goodbye.


Now that is what I call gentlemanly behaviour (I don't think).   Ask for 
advice and then abuse those that give it.   BW has given excellent advice at 
no cost to many people on this group and I for one have learnt much and 
greatly value his knowledge.   I suggest you crawl back under the stone from 
whence you came.
-- 
Keith Willcocks
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)

"Keith Willcocks"  wrote in message
news:dc63l6$26l$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "Barney"  wrote in message
> news:RM-dnbBeWYuo7nvfRVnysA@brightview.com...
>  This newsgroup seems to have gone right
> > down the tubes - I think it should be renamed the Big Wallop copy and
> > paste
> > from Google page.
> > Goodbye.
>
> Now that is what I call gentlemanly behaviour (I don't think).   Ask for
> advice and then abuse those that give it.   BW has given excellent advice
at
> no cost to many people on this group and I for one have learnt much and
> greatly value his knowledge.   I suggest you crawl back under the stone
from
> whence you came.
> -- 
> Keith Willcocks
> (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
>

Yes, I agree Keith. I hope The Wallop has not been put off by the comments
of the rude Barney and that he didn't actually mean 'Bye' to the rest of us.
I need his valuable daily advice. I have seen other groups where such a
stalwart ceases his contributions when they get abused.

Having said that, Rude Barney perhaps had a point in stating that the system
would be vented.