When I travelled in Germany trains carried routing boards along the
sides. Is this still the case?

MM

MM  wrote:

> When I travelled in Germany trains carried routing boards along the
> sides. Is this still the case?


I haven't been for about two years, but Greece still uses them even for
local trains (though not on new DMUs).

Theo

"Theo Markettos" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message 
news:1cc*hfuUq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

> MM  wrote:
>> When I travelled in Germany trains carried routing boards along the
>> sides. Is this still the case?
>
> I haven't been for about two years, but Greece still uses them even for
> local trains (though not on new DMUs).
>
> Theo

SNCF uses metal ones sometimes, but more normally relies on either paper 
stickers in the windows or LED-type displays.
Brian

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:56:50 +0100, "BH Williams"
 wrote:


>SNCF uses metal ones sometimes, but more normally relies on either paper 
>stickers in the windows or LED-type displays.


DB tends to use plastic (or handwritten paper) in the slots provided
on the inside of the doors.  Or, in the case of the D-Zug from Praha
to Stuttgart/Frankfurt/Muenchen when I used it, absolutely nothing
whatsoever, which wasn't overly helpful.

ICEs use an LED equivalent, and regional trains tend to use flipdot
displays showing only the end destination (or on Silberlinge a plastic
equivalent in the window).

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote in 
news:42e526a4.1102435@news.tesco.net:


> DB tends to use plastic (or handwritten paper) in the slots provided
> on the inside of the doors.  Or, in the case of the D-Zug from Praha
> to Stuttgart/Frankfurt/Muenchen when I used it, absolutely nothing
> whatsoever, which wasn't overly helpful.


I'm surprised by that; it did the last time I used it, but that's some time 
ago. I would have thought that the most likely trains to still retain 
traditional destination boards would be international ones, particularly 
those with multiple portions.

Rick.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:14:26 +0100, Rick Hughes 
wrote:


>I'm surprised by that; it did the last time I used it, but that's some time 
>ago. I would have thought that the most likely trains to still retain 
>traditional destination boards would be international ones, particularly 
>those with multiple portions.


Just a one-off screw-up, probably - the outward did have something,
albeit hand-written A4 paper shoved in the slots.  I knew which
portion to board because the Frankfurt part was DB stock while the
rest of it was CD, but there were a lot of confused people about.

I suppose CD are actually to blame, as the train is their
responsibility as far as the border...

Most (probably all current) DB stock doesn't have outside "slots" for
traditional metal boards, though, so even if they had existed they'd
not have been able to use them throughout.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:32:59 GMT, Neil Williams wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:14:26 +0100, Rick Hughes 
> wrote:
> 
> >I would have thought that the most likely trains to still retain 
> >traditional destination boards would be international ones, particularly 
> >those with multiple portions.
> 
> Just a one-off screw-up, probably - the outward did have something,
> albeit hand-written A4 paper shoved in the slots.  I knew which
> portion to board because the Frankfurt part was DB stock while the
> rest of it was CD, but there were a lot of confused people about.
> 
> I suppose CD are actually to blame, as the train is their
> responsibility as far as the border...


Maybe someone had nicked the boards? They're only A4 bits of plastic,
and they're regularly offered on eBay.

Could always take a supply of West Coast window labels with you next
time and put those up, see if anyone notices. ;-)

-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

Neil Williams wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:14:26 +0100, Rick Hughes 
> wrote:
>
> Most (probably all current) DB stock doesn't have outside "slots" for
> traditional metal boards, though, so even if they had existed they'd
> not have been able to use them throughout.


Last summer I travelled on DB IC stock (from .de to .nl) that had
Electronic destination indicators in the place of where the traditional
metal displays would have been.

They also had the ICE style indicators inside the train, giving the
speed and destination, etc.

Ross  wrote in
news:l6hae1h8n7u716n7jqtf48jksch2ljog5n@4ax.com: 

 

> Could always take a supply of West Coast window labels with you next
> time and put those up, see if anyone notices. ;-)


One of the vans at a firm where I used to work once sported a paper "Kyle 
of Lochalsh" destination label in the rear window. Where it came from, I 
couldn't possibly comment.

Rick.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:02:04 +0100, Ross 
wrote:


>Maybe someone had nicked the boards? They're only A4 bits of plastic,
>and they're regularly offered on eBay.


Quite possibly.  I've been tempted myself...


>Could always take a supply of West Coast window labels with you next
>time and put those up, see if anyone notices. ;-)


Anyone remember the RB[1] 101685 labels that, umm, got put[2] on the
so-called last run of Daisy (something like 2 years before the
*actual* last run)?  I guess they might still be around somewhere, as
some people did nick them as souvenirs.

Anyhow, WCML window stickers appear to be a dying or dead breed
nowadays - VT are getting decidedly lax at showing destinations in the
event of electronics failure.  I'd have to get some Caledonian Sleeper
ones :)

[1] Yes, German influence
[2] Not me, honest... ;)

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On 25 Jul 2005 13:15:09 -0700, "0.7ohm Drop Shunt"
 wrote:


>Last summer I travelled on DB IC stock (from .de to .nl) that had
>Electronic destination indicators in the place of where the traditional
>metal displays would have been.
>
>They also had the ICE style indicators inside the train, giving the
>speed and destination, etc.


Thanks.  Not a great surprise, as I think DB have a stated aim of
harmonising the passenger environment design between IC and ICE to be
able to push both as an almost-unified long-distance "product".

Regarding speed, does anyone know why VT have switched off the speed
display from the Pendolinos?  Was it too embarrassing?

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:

> On 25 Jul 2005 13:15:09 -0700, "0.7ohm Drop Shunt"
>  wrote:
>
> >Last summer I travelled on DB IC stock (from .de to .nl) that had
> >Electronic destination indicators in the place of where the traditional
> >metal displays would have been.
> >
> >They also had the ICE style indicators inside the train, giving the
> >speed and destination, etc.
>
> Thanks.  Not a great surprise, as I think DB have a stated aim of
> harmonising the passenger environment design between IC and ICE to be
> able to push both as an almost-unified long-distance "product".
>


There's a picture here showing the new style indicators

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/car/IC%2BIR/Bpmz-Bpmbz-Bpmdz/Bpmz_DB_Sb.jpg

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:57:00 GMT, Neil Williams wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:02:04 +0100, Ross 
> wrote:
[...]
> >Could always take a supply of West Coast window labels with you next
> >time and put those up, see if anyone notices. ;-)
> 
> Anyone remember the RB[1] 101685 labels that, umm, got put[2] on the
> so-called last run of Daisy (something like 2 years before the
> *actual* last run)?  I guess they might still be around somewhere, as
> some people did nick them as souvenirs.


Wasn't there, but I'm sure there are some dayglow yellow CT 1E63
Leicester - Liverpool labels (for 158 door panels) in someone's
collection somewhere. I wonder if that person realises they weren't
official?
 


> Anyhow, WCML window stickers appear to be a dying or dead breed
> nowadays - VT are getting decidedly lax at showing destinations in the
> event of electronics failure.  I'd have to get some Caledonian Sleeper
> ones :)


Could always create your own Euro-style ones using the headcode... 
EN119xx (19 for S, of course) Caledonian Express
Fort William 

;-)

Confuse the heck out of people if you put those up on a real EN train!

-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:38:46 +0100, Ross 
wrote:


>Could always create your own Euro-style ones using the headcode... 
>EN119xx (19 for S, of course) Caledonian Express
>Fort William 


"Deerstalker Express" it'd have to be.  Conjures up such a wonderful
image - almost like the (sadly no longer running) Donauwalzer.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:41:18 GMT, Neil Williams wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:38:46 +0100, Ross 
> wrote:
> 
> >Could always create your own Euro-style ones using the headcode... 
> >EN119xx (19 for S, of course) Caledonian Express
> >Fort William 
> 
> "Deerstalker Express" it'd have to be.  Conjures up such a wonderful
> image - 


Complete with MML Bambi as a logo? ;-)



> almost like the (sadly no longer running) Donauwalzer.


I'm pretty sure I travelled on that when it was a real train rather
than a poor-attempt-at-a-hotel-on-wheels. Certainly did Mainz - Wien
in a comp on an overnight some years ago.
-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:47:11 +0100, Ross 
wrote:


>> "Deerstalker Express" it'd have to be.  Conjures up such a wonderful
>> image - 
>
>Complete with MML Bambi as a logo? ;-)


Possibly.  The posters currently (well, as of about a month ago, that
being the most recent time I've been in London) being used around
Euston by First are rather good in the "conjuring up an image" sense -
they describe the Sleeper on a background of a bluish image of a misty
moor at what appears to be dawn, with the silhouette of a deer.
Rather well done.


>> almost like the (sadly no longer running) Donauwalzer.
>
>I'm pretty sure I travelled on that when it was a real train rather
>than a poor-attempt-at-a-hotel-on-wheels. Certainly did Mainz - Wien
>in a comp on an overnight some years ago.


The Donauwalzer (EN223/4, or later EN323/4, as I recall) never became
a hotel on wheels, though in its latter incarnation it did gain newer
stock (one sleeper, one couchette and three seated, as I recall, all
newish OeBB stuff) compared with when I used it earlier, when it was
formed largely of unrefurbed DB Bm235 compartment coaches and ancient
couchettes and sleepers.  I was sad to see it "go" (the name has
officially gone, and it doesn't go to Bruxelles or Oostende any more)
as it was my very first international rail experience - and what an
experience that was.

It may yet have a renaissance; it exists (or seems to) as an
OeBB-operated global-fared Wien-Dortmund service which appears to be
missed out of many of the brochures and planners, but as far as I can
tell still runs.  As I recall, CityNightLine are thinking of
withdrawing the parallel "Donau Kurier" to use the stock elsewhere, so
the Donauwalzer may yet get its passengers back if it lasts that long.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:



> The Donauwalzer (EN223/4, or later EN323/4, as I recall) never became
> a hotel on wheels, though in its latter incarnation it did gain newer
> stock (one sleeper, one couchette and three seated, as I recall, all
> newish OeBB stuff) compared with when I used it earlier, when it was
> formed largely of unrefurbed DB Bm235 compartment coaches and ancient
> couchettes and sleepers. 


Unfortunately the 'new' stainless steel coaches were no real
improvement: I remember a night of rough riding and various
rattles on one of my last runs. No potty, either ;-)

I also remember one (and one was enough) trip on the Oostende - Ramsgate 
jetfoil service with a connecting bus to the station worked by an 
ancient Leyland National that wouldn't get up the hill unless all the
passengers got off and walked.

Charlie

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:19:06 GMT, Neil Williams wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:

> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:47:11 +0100, Ross 
> wrote:
> 
> >> "Deerstalker Express" it'd have to be.  Conjures up such a wonderful
> >> image - 
> >
> >Complete with MML Bambi as a logo? ;-)
> 
> Possibly.  The posters currently (well, as of about a month ago, that
> being the most recent time I've been in London) being used around
> Euston by First are rather good in the "conjuring up an image" sense -
> they describe the Sleeper on a background of a bluish image of a misty
> moor at what appears to be dawn, with the silhouette of a deer.
> Rather well done.


I haven't seen those, but they do sound good.

 

> >> almost like the (sadly no longer running) Donauwalzer.
> >
> >I'm pretty sure I travelled on that when it was a real train rather
> >than a poor-attempt-at-a-hotel-on-wheels. Certainly did Mainz - Wien
> >in a comp on an overnight some years ago.
> 
> The Donauwalzer (EN223/4, or later EN323/4, as I recall) never became
> a hotel on wheels, 


Oh? I know there is one that did (you mention the Donau Kurier), but
TBH I can't recall which it was - I just know I had a bog standard
compo which got invaded by various Austrian commuter-types as we
approached Wien.


[..]

> formed largely of unrefurbed DB Bm235 compartment coaches and ancient
> couchettes and sleepers.  [...]


That's roughly the train I recall.

I must still have my records of that trip somewhere, so I suppose if I
can find them I can also see which train it was. But with my filing
system, I'll probably come across it in 2025 whist looking for
something totally unrelated!
-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:34:39 GMT, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>I also remember one (and one was enough) trip on the Oostende - Ramsgate 
>jetfoil service with a connecting bus to the station worked by an 
>ancient Leyland National that wouldn't get up the hill unless all the
>passengers got off and walked.


Ah, the very mention of Oostende and my eyes water with fond memories
of the 1970s and the Roi Baudoin and other Belgian ferries. Does RMT
still operate twixt Ostend and Dover? Once I travelled across on the
train ferry from Dunkirk and my Mini was squeezed into a tiny gap near
the doors, right between two massive carriages held down with equally
massive chains. I felt like a David in a group of very large Goliaths.

MM

MM wrote:


> Ah, the very mention of Oostende and my eyes water with fond memories
> of the 1970s and the Roi Baudoin and other Belgian ferries. Does RMT
> still operate twixt Ostend and Dover? 


RMT no longer exists: the Belgian government shut it down in 1997 after
hugh financial losses following a series of desperately bad
management decisions, notably purchasing a hugely expensive Superferry 
(Prins Filip) and falling out with the port of Dover
and moving to unsuitable Ramsgate, followed by the fatal
accident in 1994 in which the Prins Filip's gangway collapsed.

The Prins Filip now operates for P & O as Pride of Aquitaine.
What happened to the two horrible jetfoils I have no idea,
so long as I never have to travel in them again.

A Ramsgate - Oostende service is currently operated by
Transeuropa Ferries, but:

"In order to maintain our reputation for quality service and attention 
to the needs of our guests we only carry passengers traveling in 
vehicles. This means you can be sure of a comfortable seat in peaceful 
surroundings."

So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!

Charlie

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:08:01 +0100, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>"In order to maintain our reputation for quality service and attention 
>to the needs of our guests we only carry passengers traveling in 
>vehicles. This means you can be sure of a comfortable seat in peaceful 
>surroundings."


I get the impression that the company are similar to Maersk
Norfolkline in that they are a freight company who happen to carry
passenger cars to fill the space in the car deck and make an extra few
quid.

It is notable that they don't take coaches, presumably because they
can't squeeze into a bit of spare space.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Charlie Hulme  wrote in news:dcaaq8$30rg$1
@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk:

 

> A Ramsgate - Oostende service is currently operated by
> Transeuropa Ferries, but:
> 
> "In order to maintain our reputation for quality service and attention 
> to the needs of our guests we only carry passengers traveling in 
> vehicles. This means you can be sure of a comfortable seat in peaceful 
> surroundings."


It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers makes 
the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by car? "We 
can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
 

> So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!


Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non car-owning 
plebs.

Rick.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:38:21 +0100, Rick Hughes 
wrote:


>Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non car-owning 
>plebs.


To be fair, they are a commercial shipping company, not a subsidised
public transport operator.  However much we may dislike it, they are
entitled to do with their ships as they wish.

Foot passengers, as I recall, aren't allowed on Eurotunnel either.
That said, if you really want to cross without using E*, you could
always spend a few quid on a second-hand bicycle, to be disposed of on
the other side (or locked up near the port for your return journey).

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Neil Williams"  wrote in message 
news:42e91d70.3778533@news.tesco.net...

> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:38:21 +0100, Rick Hughes 
> wrote:
>
>>Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non car-owning
>>plebs.
>
> To be fair, they are a commercial shipping company, not a subsidised
> public transport operator.  However much we may dislike it, they are
> entitled to do with their ships as they wish.
>
> Foot passengers, as I recall, aren't allowed on Eurotunnel either.
> That said, if you really want to cross without using E*, you could
> always spend a few quid on a second-hand bicycle, to be disposed of on
> the other side (or locked up near the port for your return journey).


just stand on the motorway slip road and hitch

tim

wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote in
news:42e91d70.3778533@news.tesco.net: 


> To be fair, they are a commercial shipping company, not a subsidised
> public transport operator.  However much we may dislike it, they are
> entitled to do with their ships as they wish.


True; if foot passengers are uneconomic, there's no reason why a 
commercial company should bother with them. So much for private 
enterprise being more in tune with what the public wants.... Presumably 
numbers are too few in these days of Eurostar and cheap flights.

I used this route to the Continent many times a few years back. It's 
annoying that I couldn't now, without the purchase of a vehicle for which 
I would have no other use!
 

> Foot passengers, as I recall, aren't allowed on Eurotunnel either.
> That said, if you really want to cross without using E*, you could
> always spend a few quid on a second-hand bicycle, to be disposed of on
> the other side (or locked up near the port for your return journey).


That's a Eurotunnel service that never seems to get much publicity. TBH, 
I didn't realise it still ran. Does anyone use it in practice?

Rick.

"Rick Hughes"  wrote in message 
news:Xns96A1D33E5E579rjhtalk21com@195.8.68.222...

> wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote in
> news:42e91d70.3778533@news.tesco.net:
>
>> To be fair, they are a commercial shipping company, not a subsidised
>> public transport operator.  However much we may dislike it, they are
>> entitled to do with their ships as they wish.
>
> True; if foot passengers are uneconomic, there's no reason why a
> commercial company should bother with them. So much for private
> enterprise being more in tune with what the public wants.... Presumably
> numbers are too few in these days of Eurostar and cheap flights.
>
> I used this route to the Continent many times a few years back. It's
> annoying that I couldn't now, without the purchase of a vehicle for which
> I would have no other use!
>
>> Foot passengers, as I recall, aren't allowed on Eurotunnel either.
>> That said, if you really want to cross without using E*, you could
>> always spend a few quid on a second-hand bicycle, to be disposed of on
>> the other side (or locked up near the port for your return journey).
>
> That's a Eurotunnel service that never seems to get much publicity. TBH,
> I didn't realise it still ran. Does anyone use it in practice?
>
> Rick.
>

Before you buy a cheap bike, it might be worth checking if the service still 
runs- I only remember seeing it a couple of times whilst  I worked on the 
trains and not at all since. An alternative would be to look at one of the 
coach companies offering cheap day trips (Cross Keys, for example) and see 
if you can just go one way with them.
Brian

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Rick Hughes wrote:


> It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers 
> makes the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by 
> car? "We can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
>  
> > So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!

                 ^what

> 
> Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non 
> car-owning plebs.


Not only.  I know several car-owning folk who prefer to leave their 
own car at or near home, and rent a car at their destination.  They 
are left no choice than to fly.

"Alan J. Flavell"  wrote:


>On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Rick Hughes wrote:
>
>> It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers 
>> makes the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by 
>> car? "We can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
>>  
>> > So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!
>                 ^what
>> 
>> Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non 
>> car-owning plebs.
>
>Not only.  I know several car-owning folk who prefer to leave their 
>own car at or near home, and rent a car at their destination.  They 
>are left no choice than to fly.



Why not drive to Ashford International, park the car in the
high-security car park and take the Eurostar?

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:08:01 +0100, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>MM wrote:
>
>> Ah, the very mention of Oostende and my eyes water with fond memories
>> of the 1970s and the Roi Baudoin and other Belgian ferries. Does RMT
>> still operate twixt Ostend and Dover? 
>
>RMT no longer exists: the Belgian government shut it down in 1997 after
>hugh financial losses following a series of desperately bad
>management decisions, notably purchasing a hugely expensive Superferry 
>(Prins Filip) and falling out with the port of Dover
>and moving to unsuitable Ramsgate, followed by the fatal
>accident in 1994 in which the Prins Filip's gangway collapsed.
>
>The Prins Filip now operates for P & O as Pride of Aquitaine.
>What happened to the two horrible jetfoils I have no idea,
>so long as I never have to travel in them again.
>
>A Ramsgate - Oostende service is currently operated by
>Transeuropa Ferries, but:
>
>"In order to maintain our reputation for quality service and attention 
>to the needs of our guests we only carry passengers traveling in 
>vehicles. This means you can be sure of a comfortable seat in peaceful 
>surroundings."
>
>So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!
>
>Charlie


How sad. I crossed from Dover and back over a 100 times, many with
RMT. The chips they fried then and there in the snack bar were out of
this world.

MM

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:24:50 +0100, "Alan J. Flavell"
 wrote:


>On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Rick Hughes wrote:
>
>> It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers 
>> makes the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by 
>> car? "We can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
>>  
>> > So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!
>                 ^what
>> 
>> Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non 
>> car-owning plebs.
>
>Not only.  I know several car-owning folk who prefer to leave their 
>own car at or near home, and rent a car at their destination.  They 
>are left no choice than to fly.


Since we're on the topic, how could I take my car to Hamburg, apart
from Harwich? (Yes, I know it stops at Cuxhaven nowadays.)

MM

Neil Williams wrote:


> To be fair, they are a commercial shipping company, not a subsidised
> public transport operator.  However much we may dislike it, they are
> entitled to do with their ships as they wish.


Of course. And I'm entitled to tell them to get lost.


> 
> Foot passengers, as I recall, aren't allowed on Eurotunnel either.
> That said, if you really want to cross without using E*, you could
> always spend a few quid on a second-hand bicycle, to be disposed of on
> the other side (or locked up near the port for your return journey).


Did't someone run a coach service from Folkestone via the shuttle?
Is that still going?

Charlie

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:45:58 +0100, Rick Hughes 
wrote:


>True; if foot passengers are uneconomic, there's no reason why a 
>commercial company should bother with them. So much for private 
>enterprise being more in tune with what the public wants.... Presumably 
>numbers are too few in these days of Eurostar and cheap flights.


I'd think so, especially given that most international rail services
are now geared up for connections via Paris or Brussels.


>[Eurotunnel bicycle service]
>That's a Eurotunnel service that never seems to get much publicity. TBH, 
>I didn't realise it still ran. Does anyone use it in practice?


Twice a day on pre-booking according to the Web site, and free parking
if arriving by car!  If few people are using it, though, it probably
will only run on demand.

http://www.eurotunnel.com/ukcP3Main/ukcPassengers/ukcProductsServices/ukcTravellingWithEurotunnel/ukpBicycles

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:30:18 +0100, MM  wrote:


>Since we're on the topic, how could I take my car to Hamburg, apart
>from Harwich? (Yes, I know it stops at Cuxhaven nowadays.)


Dover-Calais then drive?

As I've said before, while Cuxhaven provides a more efficient service
(the coach service from Cuxhaven to Hamburg is quicker than the ship
was) the service has lost its appeal as the best bit was the cruise
down the Elbe, especially as the ship used was of the type where one
could get a forward view from on deck.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:27:16 GMT, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>Neil Williams wrote:
>
>> To be fair, they are a commercial shipping company, not a subsidised
>> public transport operator.  However much we may dislike it, they are
>> entitled to do with their ships as they wish.
>
>Of course. And I'm entitled to tell them to get lost.


Indeed you are.  Doubt it'll bother them, mind; they don't appear to
be a customer service type of operator ;)


>> Foot passengers, as I recall, aren't allowed on Eurotunnel either.
>> That said, if you really want to cross without using E*, you could
>> always spend a few quid on a second-hand bicycle, to be disposed of on
>> the other side (or locked up near the port for your return journey).
>
>Did't someone run a coach service from Folkestone via the shuttle?
>Is that still going?


Connex (of all people), and no, in that order.  I understand that
Eurotunnel not being willing to accommodate it being a scheduled
service (so it was often excessively late) was to blame.

There are, of course, still the ferries from Dover.  The new Seafrance
ships (subsidised by the French government, and effectively the
remnant of the SNCF side of the old Sealink operation) are to be
highly recommended.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:


> There are, of course, still the ferries from Dover. 


What, and set foot in France?  It's Hull - Zeebrugge for me!

Charlie

"Rick Hughes"  wrote in message 
news:Xns96A1BD9592D06rjhtalk21com@217.158.240.12...

> Charlie Hulme  wrote in news:dcaaq8$30rg$1
> @godfrey.mcc.ac.uk:
>
>
>> A Ramsgate - Oostende service is currently operated by
>> Transeuropa Ferries, but:
>>
>> "In order to maintain our reputation for quality service and attention
>> to the needs of our guests we only carry passengers traveling in
>> vehicles. This means you can be sure of a comfortable seat in peaceful
>> surroundings."
>
> It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers makes
> the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by car? "We
> can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
>


I thought this was more to do with staffing levels. Allow foot passengers 
and you might have to double the number of staff on board due to safety etc 
regulations. Far easier to fill the boat with lorries/cars, but few 
passengers, which equals minimal staff.

David

wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote:

>As I've said before, while Cuxhaven provides a more efficient service
>(the coach service from Cuxhaven to Hamburg is quicker than the ship
>was) the service has lost its appeal as the best bit was the cruise
>down the Elbe, especially as the ship used was of the type where one
>could get a forward view from on deck.



I recall the DFDS ship I used on the Newcastle-Hamburg service in the
early 1990s was named "Winston Churchill".  

I think "Winston Churchill" used to invade Germany twice a week.

;-)

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:56:55 GMT, Charlie Hulme
 wrote:


>Neil Williams wrote:
>
>> There are, of course, still the ferries from Dover. 
>
>What, and set foot in France?  It's Hull - Zeebrugge for me!


But I don't have three weeks to spare...

MM

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:19:28 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:


>"Alan J. Flavell"  wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Rick Hughes wrote:
>>
>>> It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers 
>>> makes the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by 
>>> car? "We can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
>>>  
>>> > So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!
>>                 ^what
>>> 
>>> Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non 
>>> car-owning plebs.
>>
>>Not only.  I know several car-owning folk who prefer to leave their 
>>own car at or near home, and rent a car at their destination.  They 
>>are left no choice than to fly.
>
>
>Why not drive to Ashford International, park the car in the
>high-security car park and take the Eurostar?


Do you happen to know what the parking fees are for the week?

MM

"MM"  wrote in message 
news:o0nje1dvfp48tv4lm3gdn77u9ga4n6h5h1@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:19:28 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:
>
>>"Alan J. Flavell"  wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Rick Hughes wrote:
>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers
>>>> makes the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by
>>>> car? "We can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
>>>>
>>>> > So they know that _they_ can do with their ships!
>>>                 ^what
>>>>
>>>> Apparently they do. And it doesn't include catering for us non
>>>> car-owning plebs.
>>>
>>>Not only.  I know several car-owning folk who prefer to leave their
>>>own car at or near home, and rent a car at their destination.  They
>>>are left no choice than to fly.
>>
>>
>>Why not drive to Ashford International, park the car in the
>>high-security car park and take the Eurostar?
>
> Do you happen to know what the parking fees are for the week?
>
> MM

If you use the multi-storey, it's about 9 per day. The open-air one 
operated by E* is about 5 per day, whilst there's also a pay and display at 
the 'Domestic' side- that's the one I'll be using on Sunday (free on 
weekends, not sure what the rate is the rest of the time- when I find ot, 
I'll post here.
Brian

MM wrote:


> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:56:55 GMT, Charlie Hulme
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Neil Williams wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There are, of course, still the ferries from Dover. 
>>
>>What, and set foot in France?  It's Hull - Zeebrugge for me!
> 
> 
> But I don't have three weeks to spare...


Don't understand - Two-hour train ride from Manchester
to Hull, Depart Hull 18:30, enjoy a nice
meal and some entertainment, have a good sleep,
arrive Zeebrugge 08:30 next day for a bus shuttle to
Brugge station ready to continue to wherever
you like.

There's even a bus from the port to Paris for the
masochists.

Charlie

Charlie Hulme wrote:

> Neil Williams wrote:
>
> > There are, of course, still the ferries from Dover.
>
> What, and set foot in France?  It's Hull - Zeebrugge for me!


This reminded me of the geographically challenged person who was
suddenly put in charge of travel arrangements at a former company I
worked for.

Large German company, working in UK subsidiary in south of England.
Engineers need to be sent on courses to Munchen, and company allowed
choice of fly or take car and drive over the weekend. Most flew but a
colleague wanted to take car and requested ferry to be booked. This
colleague lived in Kent. However, the ferry route that was booked was
Newcastle (I think it was, somehwere up there anyway) - HAMBURG - on
the basis this was the only sailings they could find that went direct
from UK to Germany. The logic of the person who did this was ''it must
be further if you have to drive through France and Belgium to get to
Germany.

--
Nick

David Thornhill wrote:


> "Rick Hughes"  wrote in message 
> news:Xns96A1BD9592D06rjhtalk21com@217.158.240.12...

>>It would be interesting to know why the exclusion of foot passengers makes
>>the seating comfortable. And rowdy passengers never travel by car? "We
>>can't be bothered with foot passengers," seems more likely.
>>
> I thought this was more to do with staffing levels. Allow foot passengers 
> and you might have to double the number of staff on board due to safety etc 
> regulations. Far easier to fill the boat with lorries/cars, but few 
> passengers, which equals minimal staff.


To be kind to them, perhaps there's no gangway setup for foot passengers
and it's considered unsafe to board by the vehicle ramp (although
I've done this on other routes from time to time.)

What irritated me most was the wording used on the website, although
I suppose they do have a point. North Sea Ferries used to refuse 
bookings by single-sex party groups, but I was disappointed on my last
trip to see people who were already obviously very drunk being allowed 
to board.

Charlie

"BH Williams"  wrote:


>If you use the multi-storey, it's about 9 per day. The open-air one 
>operated by E* is about 5 per day



That's competitive with airport parking.

Charlie Hulme  wrote:

>
>What irritated me most was the wording used on the website, although
>I suppose they do have a point. North Sea Ferries used to refuse 
>bookings by single-sex party groups, but I was disappointed on my last
>trip to see people who were already obviously very drunk being allowed 
>to board.



For the overnight crossing, if they excluded all drunk people, they
would probably exclude a significant proportion of their passengers.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:40:03 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:


>That's competitive with airport parking.


That's *very* competitive with airport parking, i.e. about half the
typical price.

It's also the same price as the Silverlink car park at MK Central.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:01:50 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:


>For the overnight crossing, if they excluded all drunk people, they
>would probably exclude a significant proportion of their passengers.


Not to mention those travelling in their on-board bar.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 11:40:03 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:
>
>>That's competitive with airport parking.
>
>That's *very* competitive with airport parking, i.e. about half the
>typical price.



Agreed.  It's about the same as those awful independently operated car
parks that are located 5-10 miles away from the airport and where they
bus you in and out.



>It's also the same price as the Silverlink car park at MK Central.



But far, far more secure.  I would happily park my car for a week at
Ashford International, but not at MK Central.

wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil Williams) wrote:


>On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:01:50 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:
>
>>For the overnight crossing, if they excluded all drunk people, they
>>would probably exclude a significant proportion of their passengers.
>
>Not to mention those travelling in their on-board bar.



Absolutely.  'Twas ever thus.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:18:54 +0100, Tony Polson  wrote:


>But far, far more secure.  I would happily park my car for a week at
>Ashford International, but not at MK Central. 


Agreed.  The MKC car park is far too isolated, and is pay and display
so you have the "benefit" of a nice sign to any crooks as to when you
will be arriving back at your car.

It would be good to see it changed to pay-on-exit, which is both a
fairer and more secure method of operating car park charges, but that
would mean it'd really need to be staffed 24-7.

Neil

-- 
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Tony Polson wrote:


> Charlie Hulme  wrote:
> 
>>What irritated me most was the wording used on the website, although
>>I suppose they do have a point. North Sea Ferries used to refuse 
>>bookings by single-sex party groups, but I was disappointed on my last
>>trip to see people who were already obviously very drunk being allowed 
>>to board.

> For the overnight crossing, if they excluded all drunk people, they
> would probably exclude a significant proportion of their passengers.


I draw the line at people (football supporters I'm sorry to say) who are
already staggering when they leave the train at Hull station.

Charlie

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:05:25 GMT, wensleydale@pacersplace.org.uk (Neil
Williams) wrote:

>To be fair, they are a commercial shipping company, not a subsidised
>public transport operator.  However much we may dislike it, they are
>entitled to do with their ships as they wish.


Agreed - I think it's the pompous nature of their explanation that
grates a bit.

Norfolk Line, who don't take foot passengers either, say:

"Motorist friendly service
Our passenger service is dedicated exclusively to the motoring
passenger and with no coach parties or foot passengers there are less
crowds in our lounges, bars and restaurants."

Sounds reasonable... and their cooked breakfasts are very cheap :-)

As you said elsewhere, IMHO Seafrance is the best way across.

Richard.