I bought a 2001 Fiesta Flight TD DI  1753cc at an auction two weeks ago.
Today was the first time I went round checking the levels.  I looked in the
coolant reservoir and saw a horrible black oily liquid (there is no foam or
white slime in the coolant and none around dip stick or oil filler).  Looks
as black as used diesel engine oil.  Acceleration and engine power is fine.
It doesn't consume excessive amount of oil and no smoke from the exhaust.
In other respects its a beautiful clean car.

Is there a coolant additive that is black and oily ?
My suspicion is that either someone topped up the coolant with engine oil or
that engine oil is entering the engine coolant system.  I thought of
siphoning off the black oily liquid (the oil should be floating on the
coolant water) and monitoring to see if the black oily stuff returns.

Are there any tests I can do to determine what's going on.  Or should I put
it back in for auction ASAP?

Thanks

"Alt Beer"  wrote in message 
news:s74Fe.13409$Fx3.10952@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...

>I bought a 2001 Fiesta Flight TD DI  1753cc at an auction two weeks ago.
> Today was the first time I went round checking the levels.  I looked in 
> the
> coolant reservoir and saw a horrible black oily liquid (there is no foam 
> or
> white slime in the coolant and none around dip stick or oil filler). 
> Looks
> as black as used diesel engine oil.  Acceleration and engine power is 
> fine.
> It doesn't consume excessive amount of oil and no smoke from the exhaust.
> In other respects its a beautiful clean car.
>
> Is there a coolant additive that is black and oily ?
> My suspicion is that either someone topped up the coolant with engine oil 
> or
> that engine oil is entering the engine coolant system.  I thought of
> siphoning off the black oily liquid (the oil should be floating on the
> coolant water) and monitoring to see if the black oily stuff returns.
>
> Are there any tests I can do to determine what's going on.  Or should I 
> put
> it back in for auction ASAP?


It'll be needing a new oil cooler (combined into the oil filter head).
Change the oil cooler, then you'll have to flush the cooling system.
Ford's recommended flush is some liquid laundry detergent (far better + 
quicker at breaking down the oil than normal coolant flush). You put about 
70ml off detergent in with each flush, run engine until fully warmed up, 
drain out, flush through with some clean water, then repeat. Usually takes a 
good few flushes (ford recommend 3-5 flushes).

Something to watch out for though, is if the coolers been burst for a while, 
the coolant system may be pretty well gunged up, which would show through 
overheating. If it's that bad, you've got to flush out as much off the gunge 
as you can by disconnecting various hoses before putting any detergent in.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:34:48 GMT, Alt Beer wrote:


> I bought a 2001 Fiesta Flight TD DI  1753cc at an auction two weeks ago.
> Today was the first time I went round checking the levels.  I looked in the
> coolant reservoir and saw a horrible black oily liquid (there is no foam or
> white slime in the coolant and none around dip stick or oil filler).  Looks
> as black as used diesel engine oil.  Acceleration and engine power is fine.
> It doesn't consume excessive amount of oil and no smoke from the exhaust.
> In other respects its a beautiful clean car.
> 
> Is there a coolant additive that is black and oily ?
> My suspicion is that either someone topped up the coolant with engine oil or
> that engine oil is entering the engine coolant system.  I thought of
> siphoning off the black oily liquid (the oil should be floating on the
> coolant water) and monitoring to see if the black oily stuff returns.
> 
> Are there any tests I can do to determine what's going on.  Or should I put
> it back in for auction ASAP?
> 
> Thanks


The new coolant is a dark purply colour and I could conceive of it looking
like oil in quantity, especially if someone has put it in neat. It doesn't
feel very oily though. If this is in addition to the coolant though which
from 2001 model years should be pink if it's factory fill then you have a
problem. Either the oil cooler has gone or there is a head gasket or
cracked head/block. I'd place money on the oil cooler having gone - it's
not uncommon.

If so then a regular to this ng has a fix involving Bold washing up liquid
and a new oil cooler - he'll be along shortly or you could try searing
google groups for the answer.

Alt Beer wrote:

> I bought a 2001 Fiesta Flight TD DI  1753cc at an auction two weeks ago.
> Today was the first time I went round checking the levels.  I looked in the
> coolant reservoir and saw a horrible black oily liquid (there is no foam or
> white slime in the coolant and none around dip stick or oil filler).  Looks
> as black as used diesel engine oil.  Acceleration and engine power is fine.
> It doesn't consume excessive amount of oil and no smoke from the exhaust.
> In other respects its a beautiful clean car.
> 
> Is there a coolant additive that is black and oily ?
> My suspicion is that either someone topped up the coolant with engine oil or
> that engine oil is entering the engine coolant system.  I thought of
> siphoning off the black oily liquid (the oil should be floating on the
> coolant water) and monitoring to see if the black oily stuff returns.
> 
> Are there any tests I can do to determine what's going on.  Or should I put
> it back in for auction ASAP?


Paging AstraVanMan...

Douglas

> It'll be needing a new oil cooler (combined into the oil filter head).
> Change the oil cooler, then you'll have to flush the cooling system.
> Ford's recommended flush is some liquid laundry detergent (far better +
> quicker at breaking down the oil than normal coolant flush). You put about
> 70ml off detergent in with each flush, run engine until fully warmed up,
> drain out, flush through with some clean water, then repeat. Usually takes
a
> good few flushes (ford recommend 3-5 flushes).
>
> Something to watch out for though, is if the coolers been burst for a
while,
> the coolant system may be pretty well gunged up, which would show through
> overheating. If it's that bad, you've got to flush out as much off the
gunge
> as you can by disconnecting various hoses before putting any detergent in.



Is an oil cooler easy to fit ?   any idea roughly how much a Fiesta cooler
might cost ?

Thanks

>> I bought a 2001 Fiesta Flight TD DI  1753cc at an auction two weeks ago.
>> Today was the first time I went round checking the levels.  I looked in 
>> the
>> coolant reservoir and saw a horrible black oily liquid (there is no foam 
>> or
>> white slime in the coolant and none around dip stick or oil filler). 
>> Looks
>> as black as used diesel engine oil.  Acceleration and engine power is 
>> fine.
>> It doesn't consume excessive amount of oil and no smoke from the exhaust.
>> In other respects its a beautiful clean car.
>>
>> Is there a coolant additive that is black and oily ?
>> My suspicion is that either someone topped up the coolant with engine oil 
>> or
>> that engine oil is entering the engine coolant system.  I thought of
>> siphoning off the black oily liquid (the oil should be floating on the
>> coolant water) and monitoring to see if the black oily stuff returns.
>>
>> Are there any tests I can do to determine what's going on.  Or should I 
>> put
>> it back in for auction ASAP?
>
> Paging AstraVanMan...


I refer the OP to previously archived posts of mine on the matter on google 
groups.  I've probably said the same thing about the subject several times 
over the course of the last couple of years, so it shouldn't be hard to 
find!

If the coolant is black and oily, and not thick sludge, then 
congratulations - it hasn't yet got to the stage of completely bunging up 
the whole cooling system with gunge.  Don't run the engine a minute longer. 
Confirm that it's not bunged up by disconnecting one of the rad hoses and 
having a look (careful though - safety first!).  Hopefully it won't have got 
to a bad stage.  Then fill it with the recommended Ford coolant (bright 
orange glow-in-the-dark stuff).  In fact, scrub that, fill the system with 
water, get it up to temp, give it a good flushing out.  In fact, before you 
do that, replace the oil cooler (if it's at fault).  Then fill and flush. 
Then refill with the proper Ford orange glow-in-the-dark coolant, and buy a 
few bottles as spares, as you don't want to be topping up with any other 
type of coolant as they don't mix well at all.

Then run the thing into the ground.  They're not bad engines - mine (W plate 
Fiesta van) felt *immensely* more refined at 135k, and just drove better 
generally, than a slightly earlier (S reg) Mk4 that I drove more or less 
back to back with it, did at around 50k.  I'm confident it'd still be going 
now, probably at around 200-250k, if that hadn't gone wrong.  In fact, the 
guy who bought it off me got it running again no probs (sold with cylinder 
head in the boot), so it probably will work its way to that sort of 
mileage.......

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

>> It'll be needing a new oil cooler (combined into the oil filter head).
>> Change the oil cooler, then you'll have to flush the cooling system.
>> Ford's recommended flush is some liquid laundry detergent (far better +
>> quicker at breaking down the oil than normal coolant flush). You put 
>> about
>> 70ml off detergent in with each flush, run engine until fully warmed up,
>> drain out, flush through with some clean water, then repeat. Usually 
>> takes a
>> good few flushes (ford recommend 3-5 flushes).
>>
>> Something to watch out for though, is if the coolers been burst for a 
>> while,
>> the coolant system may be pretty well gunged up, which would show through
>> overheating. If it's that bad, you've got to flush out as much off the 
>> gunge
>> as you can by disconnecting various hoses before putting any detergent 
>> in.
>
> Is an oil cooler easy to fit ?


Don't know - I think access is a bit tight down there - can't imagine it's 
too bad though.


> any idea roughly how much a Fiesta cooler
> might cost ?


Yep, around 120-130 ish.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

Thanks for the help.

Alt Beer

"AstraVanMan"  wrote in message 
news:4w8Fe.7722$YL5.4951@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

>>> It'll be needing a new oil cooler (combined into the oil filter head).
>>> Change the oil cooler, then you'll have to flush the cooling system.
>>> Ford's recommended flush is some liquid laundry detergent (far better +
>>> quicker at breaking down the oil than normal coolant flush). You put 
>>> about
>>> 70ml off detergent in with each flush, run engine until fully warmed up,
>>> drain out, flush through with some clean water, then repeat. Usually 
>>> takes a
>>> good few flushes (ford recommend 3-5 flushes).
>>>
>>> Something to watch out for though, is if the coolers been burst for a 
>>> while,
>>> the coolant system may be pretty well gunged up, which would show 
>>> through
>>> overheating. If it's that bad, you've got to flush out as much off the 
>>> gunge
>>> as you can by disconnecting various hoses before putting any detergent 
>>> in.
>>
>> Is an oil cooler easy to fit ?
>
> Don't know - I think access is a bit tight down there - can't imagine it's 
> too bad though.


Access isn't too bad. Hardest part is getting the two coolant pipes off.
From memory, I think you can just about get the pipes from above. If not, 
you've got to unbolt the cooler, and pull it down to get into the clips 
(there those nice spring loaded clips). To make it easier, I have seen 
mechanics disconnect the concerned hoses at the opposite ends from the 
cooler, and remove the whole lot.
The cooler is held onto the block with 3 10mm headed bolts.


>> any idea roughly how much a Fiesta cooler
>> might cost ?
>
> Yep, around 120-130 ish.


Sounds about right. Make sure you also get the gasket for it.

"Moray Cuthill"  wrote in message
news:42e54709$1@news.greennet.net...

>
> "AstraVanMan"  wrote in message
> news:4w8Fe.7722$YL5.4951@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
> >>> It'll be needing a new oil cooler (combined into the oil filter head).
> >>> Change the oil cooler, then you'll have to flush the cooling system.
> >>> Ford's recommended flush is some liquid laundry detergent (far better
+
> >>> quicker at breaking down the oil than normal coolant flush). You put
> >>> about
> >>> 70ml off detergent in with each flush, run engine until fully warmed
up,
> >>> drain out, flush through with some clean water, then repeat. Usually
> >>> takes a
> >>> good few flushes (ford recommend 3-5 flushes).
> >>>
> >>> Something to watch out for though, is if the coolers been burst for a
> >>> while,
> >>> the coolant system may be pretty well gunged up, which would show
> >>> through
> >>> overheating. If it's that bad, you've got to flush out as much off the
> >>> gunge
> >>> as you can by disconnecting various hoses before putting any detergent
> >>> in.
> >>
> >> Is an oil cooler easy to fit ?
> >
> > Don't know - I think access is a bit tight down there - can't imagine
it's
> > too bad though.
>
> Access isn't too bad. Hardest part is getting the two coolant pipes off.
> From memory, I think you can just about get the pipes from above. If not,
> you've got to unbolt the cooler, and pull it down to get into the clips
> (there those nice spring loaded clips). To make it easier, I have seen
> mechanics disconnect the concerned hoses at the opposite ends from the
> cooler, and remove the whole lot.
> The cooler is held onto the block with 3 10mm headed bolts.
>
> >> any idea roughly how much a Fiesta cooler
> >> might cost ?
> >
> > Yep, around 120-130 ish.
>
> Sounds about right. Make sure you also get the gasket for it.
>
>

Also bear in mind that the rubber water pipes could have been softened by
the oil, and may all need replacing.

Alt Beer wrote:

> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Alt Beer
> 
> 


Just to second AstraVanMan, I'm going through the same ordeal, ATM - the 
oil cooler's being replaced (Vx Omega, in my case), and I'll be checking 
and flushing the coolant system for the next few weeks and months to 
ensure the leak's been solved.

Hint, before draining your coolant, grab the missus' chicken baster 
(yup, she did catch me) and syphon as much of the crap out of the 
expansion tank.

Mike

> Just to second AstraVanMan, I'm going through the same ordeal, ATM - the 
> oil cooler's being replaced (Vx Omega, in my case), and I'll be checking 
> and flushing the coolant system for the next few weeks and months to 
> ensure the leak's been solved.


Not only to ensure the leak's been solved, but to gradually get rid of all 
the goo that'll remain in the cooling system, as it'll probably be near 
impossible to get it all out (from coolant passages around the block etc), 
though replacing (or properly flushing) all pipes, and rad/heater matrix 
would be a good start.

-- 
Peter

"You're not a real UKRCMer until you've owned a Rover 620ti."

"Mike Dodd" <no-address@lo0> wrote in message
news:42e8ee53$0$6469$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...

> Alt Beer wrote:
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Alt Beer
> >
> >
>
> Just to second AstraVanMan, I'm going through the same ordeal, ATM - the
> oil cooler's being replaced (Vx Omega, in my case), and I'll be checking
> and flushing the coolant system for the next few weeks and months to
> ensure the leak's been solved.
>
> Hint, before draining your coolant, grab the missus' chicken baster
> (yup, she did catch me) and syphon as much of the crap out of the
> expansion tank.  Mike


ok on the baster.  Yesterday, I bought a meter length of clear plastic
flexible piping (as used for home brewing) I plan to siphon all the gunge
from the expansion tank and flush the whole system out.   I looked through
the previous owners service notes and noticed that they were advised of oil
in the expansion tank.  There is a bill for removing the head and checking
for cracks and warping.  Replacing the head gasket and bolts.  So, maybe the
oil in my expansion tank is oil that is still circulating in the system and
not freshly leaked.  I hope so.