This was put on another newsgroup but I think I might get some more
comments here! (With thanks to 'Frank' though).
I might add to my original thread(and in part reply to Frank) that I
have put in a good amount of injection cleaner and despite this it can
be pretty smokey if I rev it up on the hard standing....
Thanks in advance Robin



> Hi chaps
> I have a 5yr old Terrano II which has 90,000 miles on the clock.
> In the past year it has become increasingly sluggish in 5th,4th and
> recently 3rd. ie.. the gradual motorway gradients that it used to hold
> comfortably in 5th are now requiring a change down to 4th-and even
> that does not produce a surge.Indeed, 4th seems,in that situation, no
> better!
> Ist and 2nd are fine but I have detected in 2nd a feeling of slight
> shuddering, and whilst 3rd gets me up to 'speed' it is not brilliant
> and quite modest in output.
> I have not had issues with starting, and reasonably regularly put in
> fuel injector cleaners.
> My son-in-law suggests that the injector pump is not functioning
> correctly- and added that the injectors themselves may be clogged up.
> I have the vehicle booked in at my local garage at the end of next
> week and they are going to look at the issue. But I thought I would
> pop in to this newsgroup to see if anyone has experienced this.
>
> And whilst I am asking,my driver window steadfastly refuses to lower
> in hot weather and here the culprit seems to be the rubber
> surround-various people have suggested I should renew the surround.
> The other windows are fine
>
> Thanks Robin


Yep, your son-in-law might be correct. I'd try some injector cleaner
first.
If the motor has a distribution belt, it might be a tooth off
position. Or 
some new spark plugs maybe.

Have you tried some chaulk for the rubber?

Frank

"Robin Nicholson"  wrote in 
message news:caf7e19msfactak9hqmvvm9gmo58kbehrp@4ax.com...

>
> This was put on another newsgroup but I think I might get some more
> comments here! (With thanks to 'Frank' though).
> I might add to my original thread(and in part reply to Frank) that I
> have put in a good amount of injection cleaner and despite this it can
> be pretty smokey if I rev it up on the hard standing....
> Thanks in advance Robin
>
>
>> Hi chaps
>> I have a 5yr old Terrano II which has 90,000 miles on the clock.
>> In the past year it has become increasingly sluggish in 5th,4th and
>> recently 3rd. ie.. the gradual motorway gradients that it used to hold
>> comfortably in 5th are now requiring a change down to 4th-and even
>> that does not produce a surge.Indeed, 4th seems,in that situation, no
>> better!
>> Ist and 2nd are fine but I have detected in 2nd a feeling of slight
>> shuddering, and whilst 3rd gets me up to 'speed' it is not brilliant
>> and quite modest in output.
>> I have not had issues with starting, and reasonably regularly put in
>> fuel injector cleaners.
>> My son-in-law suggests that the injector pump is not functioning
>> correctly- and added that the injectors themselves may be clogged up.
>> I have the vehicle booked in at my local garage at the end of next
>> week and they are going to look at the issue. But I thought I would
>> pop in to this newsgroup to see if anyone has experienced this.


I'm not that familiar with terranos, but the problem could be caused by 
various things.
Mechanically, there could be quite a few possibilites.
When you rev it up, is it black smoke?
Black smoke would indicate that there is not enough air getting into the 
cylinder.
Possible causes are blocked air cleaner (always start with the simple 
things), leaking turbo hose causing boost pressure to be lost (normally 
you'd hear the whoosh off the air escaping), even possibly a burst inlet 
manifold gasket, sticking EGR valve (only easy way to check is by 
replacement, or to blank it off), valves needing adjusted, seized/faulty 
turbo wastegate.
If it is black smoke, the engine is getting fuel, so I would rule out any 
major problems with the injection system.

If you're getting white/grey smoke when you rev it up, that would indicate a 
fuelling/timing problem.
It's unlikely to be an engine timing problem, as I'm sure the Terrano 
engines were all chain/gear driven.
So it would indicate a problem with the pump timing, which would take a 
specialist to diagnose and repair.

I'm pretty sure the Terranos didn't use much electronics in the engine 
management, but even if it has, the black smoke is unlikley to be caused by 
an electrical fault. (Any fault would normally cut fuelling, which would 
give the symptoms described, but normally wouldn't produce much smoke)


>>
>> And whilst I am asking,my driver window steadfastly refuses to lower
>> in hot weather and here the culprit seems to be the rubber
>> surround-various people have suggested I should renew the surround.
>> The other windows are fine


Try some silicon/teflon 'dry' lubes on the rubber seal. These should help, 
but whatever you do, do not use anything oil based as it'll make the problem 
far worse.


>>
>> Thanks Robin
>
> Yep, your son-in-law might be correct. I'd try some injector cleaner
> first.
> If the motor has a distribution belt, it might be a tooth off
> position. Or
> some new spark plugs maybe.


Guess that Frank doesn't know that diesels don't have spark plugs.


> Have you tried some chaulk for the rubber?


Certainly a new take on the problem to me.

"Moray Cuthill"  wrote in message
news:42e40bc9$1@news.greennet.net...

>
> "Robin Nicholson"  wrote in
> message news:caf7e19msfactak9hqmvvm9gmo58kbehrp@4ax.com...
> >
> > This was put on another newsgroup but I think I might get some more
> > comments here! (With thanks to 'Frank' though).
> > I might add to my original thread(and in part reply to Frank) that I
> > have put in a good amount of injection cleaner and despite this it can
> > be pretty smokey if I rev it up on the hard standing....
> > Thanks in advance Robin
> >
> >
> >> Hi chaps
> >> I have a 5yr old Terrano II which has 90,000 miles on the clock.
> >> In the past year it has become increasingly sluggish in 5th,4th and
> >> recently 3rd. ie.. the gradual motorway gradients that it used to hold
> >> comfortably in 5th are now requiring a change down to 4th-and even
> >> that does not produce a surge.Indeed, 4th seems,in that situation, no
> >> better!
> >> Ist and 2nd are fine but I have detected in 2nd a feeling of slight
> >> shuddering, and whilst 3rd gets me up to 'speed' it is not brilliant
> >> and quite modest in output.
> >> I have not had issues with starting, and reasonably regularly put in
> >> fuel injector cleaners.
> >> My son-in-law suggests that the injector pump is not functioning
> >> correctly- and added that the injectors themselves may be clogged up.
> >> I have the vehicle booked in at my local garage at the end of next
> >> week and they are going to look at the issue. But I thought I would
> >> pop in to this newsgroup to see if anyone has experienced this.
>
> I'm not that familiar with terranos, but the problem could be caused by
> various things.
> Mechanically, there could be quite a few possibilites.
> When you rev it up, is it black smoke?
> Black smoke would indicate that there is not enough air getting into the
> cylinder.
> Possible causes are blocked air cleaner (always start with the simple
> things), leaking turbo hose causing boost pressure to be lost (normally
> you'd hear the whoosh off the air escaping), even possibly a burst inlet
> manifold gasket, sticking EGR valve (only easy way to check is by
> replacement, or to blank it off), valves needing adjusted, seized/faulty
> turbo wastegate.
> If it is black smoke, the engine is getting fuel, so I would rule out any
> major problems with the injection system.
>
> If you're getting white/grey smoke when you rev it up, that would indicate
a
> fuelling/timing problem.
> It's unlikely to be an engine timing problem, as I'm sure the Terrano
> engines were all chain/gear driven.
> So it would indicate a problem with the pump timing, which would take a
> specialist to diagnose and repair.
>
> I'm pretty sure the Terranos didn't use much electronics in the engine
> management, but even if it has, the black smoke is unlikley to be caused
by
> an electrical fault. (Any fault would normally cut fuelling, which would
> give the symptoms described, but normally wouldn't produce much smoke)


All Terrano II's- that is from ~S reg onwards use fly by wire throttle and
EDC using a bosch VP pump.

It has a myriad of overly complicated small vacuum pipes, and controls, EGR,
turbo regulation, vacuum operated throttle valve,  etc etc etc These all
need going through with a fine tooth comb- splits and leaks are the norm at
this sort of age from engine heat / vibration . This should be your first
port of call.

Anyhow some more history and information is really required- does it smoke
heavily under acceleration, is the smoke dense black, is starting and idling
performance as normal, and is MPG any different, have you had any non
routine servicing done after which performance was down ?? Has it faded over
a time or been a sudden drop...etc ??

There are many other reasons why you could be experiencing reduced
performance so we need to narrow it down alittle.

The 2.7TDi is usually a fairly willing if alittle agricultural worker and
generally reliable, and with proper maintanance, I would not expect it to be
deteriorating at 90k.

Tim..

"Tim.."  wrote in message 
news:dc0uvi$66n$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "Moray Cuthill"  wrote in message
> news:42e40bc9$1@news.greennet.net...
>>
>> "Robin Nicholson"  wrote in
>> message news:caf7e19msfactak9hqmvvm9gmo58kbehrp@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > This was put on another newsgroup but I think I might get some more
>> > comments here! (With thanks to 'Frank' though).
>> > I might add to my original thread(and in part reply to Frank) that I
>> > have put in a good amount of injection cleaner and despite this it can
>> > be pretty smokey if I rev it up on the hard standing....
>> > Thanks in advance Robin
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi chaps
>> >> I have a 5yr old Terrano II which has 90,000 miles on the clock.
>> >> In the past year it has become increasingly sluggish in 5th,4th and
>> >> recently 3rd. ie.. the gradual motorway gradients that it used to hold
>> >> comfortably in 5th are now requiring a change down to 4th-and even
>> >> that does not produce a surge.Indeed, 4th seems,in that situation, no
>> >> better!
>> >> Ist and 2nd are fine but I have detected in 2nd a feeling of slight
>> >> shuddering, and whilst 3rd gets me up to 'speed' it is not brilliant
>> >> and quite modest in output.
>> >> I have not had issues with starting, and reasonably regularly put in
>> >> fuel injector cleaners.
>> >> My son-in-law suggests that the injector pump is not functioning
>> >> correctly- and added that the injectors themselves may be clogged up.
>> >> I have the vehicle booked in at my local garage at the end of next
>> >> week and they are going to look at the issue. But I thought I would
>> >> pop in to this newsgroup to see if anyone has experienced this.
>>
>> I'm not that familiar with terranos, but the problem could be caused by
>> various things.
>> Mechanically, there could be quite a few possibilites.
>> When you rev it up, is it black smoke?
>> Black smoke would indicate that there is not enough air getting into the
>> cylinder.
>> Possible causes are blocked air cleaner (always start with the simple
>> things), leaking turbo hose causing boost pressure to be lost (normally
>> you'd hear the whoosh off the air escaping), even possibly a burst inlet
>> manifold gasket, sticking EGR valve (only easy way to check is by
>> replacement, or to blank it off), valves needing adjusted, seized/faulty
>> turbo wastegate.
>> If it is black smoke, the engine is getting fuel, so I would rule out any
>> major problems with the injection system.
>>
>> If you're getting white/grey smoke when you rev it up, that would 
>> indicate
> a
>> fuelling/timing problem.
>> It's unlikely to be an engine timing problem, as I'm sure the Terrano
>> engines were all chain/gear driven.
>> So it would indicate a problem with the pump timing, which would take a
>> specialist to diagnose and repair.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the Terranos didn't use much electronics in the engine
>> management, but even if it has, the black smoke is unlikley to be caused
> by
>> an electrical fault. (Any fault would normally cut fuelling, which would
>> give the symptoms described, but normally wouldn't produce much smoke)
>
> All Terrano II's- that is from ~S reg onwards use fly by wire throttle and
> EDC using a bosch VP pump.


Thanks for clearing that up. I haven't had to work on a Terrano for a couple 
years now, and the only things i can really remember about them was how 
awkward the oil filters were to change, and that the front wheel bearings 
used to need regular adjustment.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:50:58 +0000 (UTC), "Tim.."
 wrote:



>> I'm not that familiar with terranos, but the problem could be caused by
>> various things.
>> Mechanically, there could be quite a few possibilites.
>> When you rev it up, is it black smoke?
>> Black smoke would indicate that there is not enough air getting into the
>> cylinder.
>> Possible causes are blocked air cleaner (always start with the simple
>> things), leaking turbo hose causing boost pressure to be lost (normally
>> you'd hear the whoosh off the air escaping), even possibly a burst inlet
>> manifold gasket, sticking EGR valve (only easy way to check is by
>> replacement, or to blank it off), valves needing adjusted, seized/faulty
>> turbo wastegate.
>> If it is black smoke, the engine is getting fuel, so I would rule out any
>> major problems with the injection system.
>>
>> If you're getting white/grey smoke when you rev it up, that would indicate
>a
>> fuelling/timing problem.
>> It's unlikely to be an engine timing problem, as I'm sure the Terrano
>> engines were all chain/gear driven.
>> So it would indicate a problem with the pump timing, which would take a
>> specialist to diagnose and repair.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the Terranos didn't use much electronics in the engine
>> management, but even if it has, the black smoke is unlikley to be caused
>by
>> an electrical fault. (Any fault would normally cut fuelling, which would
>> give the symptoms described, but normally wouldn't produce much smoke)




>All Terrano II's- that is from ~S reg onwards use fly by wire throttle and
>EDC using a bosch VP pump.
>
>It has a myriad of overly complicated small vacuum pipes, and controls, EGR,
>turbo regulation, vacuum operated throttle valve,  etc etc etc These all
>need going through with a fine tooth comb- splits and leaks are the norm at
>this sort of age from engine heat / vibration . This should be your first
>port of call.
>
>Anyhow some more history and information is really required- does it smoke
>heavily under acceleration, is the smoke dense black, is starting and idling
>performance as normal, and is MPG any different, have you had any non
>routine servicing done after which performance was down ?? Has it faded over
>a time or been a sudden drop...etc ??


Tim: it has been a gradual decline over the last year-18 months. I
think the key place where I noticed it is on a nearby straight hill
halfway (7 miles away) to work  which I normally used to go over in
5th allowing for a slight slowing from an inital 65mph, but never felt
the need to go to 4th. When going in 4th had little effect ( better
decsribed as No effect) and I was down to 3rd to maintain speed to
between 35/40..then I decided to do something!
It has been regularly serviced according to schedule. I have certainly
added injector cleaner on a regular basis and especially over the last
year. It has not failed an MOT
It does not smoke under acceleration (that I can see through the
mirror-and I have been watching), it starts first time and is a bit
rough before settling-only if I rev it up on the hardstanding will I
get a cloud-and certainly not black-more blue I think! It idles pretty
well.
I get the impression that mpg is down,but not dramatically so. Only
one odd thing has happened- some 4 months ago, along the A303 and a
slight incline, she suddenly lost acceleration in 4th-as if someone
was holding her back. With foot on throttleand in 3rd she suddenly
picked up, faltered back,shuddered and then picked up again. I had the
fuel filter changed at that point-though it was between services.
After that she has been normal,with the above description of gradual
lack of performance.
She has not got worse and worse, judged by the same route I take very
day to work, but having become sluggish, sluggish she remains! Having
said that, she purrs along the M3 without issue-till I come to
slightly steeper than normal inclines-and most motorways in the south
have nothing dramatic in my opinion
I really appreciate both replies-thanks
Robin

"Robin Nicholson"  wrote in
message news:1628e1davrms1t0sbq2aadcfcmk3b9ll7p@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:50:58 +0000 (UTC), "Tim.."
>  wrote:
>
> Tim: it has been a gradual decline over the last year-18 months. I
> think the key place where I noticed it is on a nearby straight hill
> halfway (7 miles away) to work  which I normally used to go over in
> 5th allowing for a slight slowing from an inital 65mph, but never felt
> the need to go to 4th. When going in 4th had little effect ( better
> decsribed as No effect) and I was down to 3rd to maintain speed to
> between 35/40..then I decided to do something!
> It has been regularly serviced according to schedule. I have certainly
> added injector cleaner on a regular basis and especially over the last
> year. It has not failed an MOT
> It does not smoke under acceleration (that I can see through the
> mirror-and I have been watching), it starts first time and is a bit
> rough before settling-only if I rev it up on the hardstanding will I
> get a cloud-and certainly not black-more blue I think! It idles pretty
> well.
> I get the impression that mpg is down,but not dramatically so. Only
> one odd thing has happened- some 4 months ago, along the A303 and a
> slight incline, she suddenly lost acceleration in 4th-as if someone
> was holding her back. With foot on throttleand in 3rd she suddenly
> picked up, faltered back,shuddered and then picked up again. I had the
> fuel filter changed at that point-though it was between services.
> After that she has been normal,with the above description of gradual
> lack of performance.
> She has not got worse and worse, judged by the same route I take very
> day to work, but having become sluggish, sluggish she remains! Having
> said that, she purrs along the M3 without issue-till I come to
> slightly steeper than normal inclines-and most motorways in the south
> have nothing dramatic in my opinion
> I really appreciate both replies-thanks


Robin, thats good info, thanks.

I feel fairly sure that you either have a vacuum leak from one of the hoses
or a faulty map sensor, or  you have a mechaincal issue with either the
turbo wastegate or throttle valve.

A split line to the MAP sensor for instance will drastically reduce
performance, because the ECU isnt seeing turbo boost and adding more  fuel.

After checking all the vacuum lines, I think I would personnally connect up
a boost gauge go for a drive and compare it to spec, which would help narrow
it down before going further.

Tim..

Hi

Check the MAF (Mass Airflow Sensor).  If you have a dirty hotwire then the 
signal it passes to your vehicle's ECU will be wrong, which could account 
for the smoke and loss of power.  Had the same problem with my Audi 80 Avant 
TDi.

Pretty sure you should be able to purchase 'exchange unit' from Nissan 
dealership.

Spart


x--   100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x--   30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
x--   Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month
x--   UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:51:28 -0500, "spart"
wrote:


>Hi
>
>Check the MAF (Mass Airflow Sensor).  If you have a dirty hotwire then the 
>signal it passes to your vehicle's ECU will be wrong, which could account 
>for the smoke and loss of power.  Had the same problem with my Audi 80 Avant 
>TDi.



Thanks Spart - it was just that. Now she purrs along - a staggering
difference- and no longer do I have to change down to 4th (no effect)
and then to 3rd (not much better). Have just gone from Aldershot to
Yeovil on the A303 and apart from roundabouts etc did not have to get
out of 5th.
Cheers Robin

Glad to hear your Terrano is back on the road. The MAF sensor is a small but 
essential piece of kit. Think sensor is susceptible to contamination - 
certainly if you don't replace the air filter regularly enough.  Think this 
should be done every 15-20K.  Depends on driving conditions also.

Spart


x--   100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x--   30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
x--   Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month
x--   UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD