Train services face eight days of disruption as the Forth Rail Bridge
closes for the longest period in its 115-year history.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4704527.stm

-- 
DB.

"DB."  wrote in message 
news:DWLEe.7341$YL5.5715@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...

> Train services face eight days of disruption as the Forth Rail Bridge
> closes for the longest period in its 115-year history.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4704527.stm
>
> -- 
> DB.
>

Dare we hope this means they're taking the maintenance seriously, and that 
we can forget those forecasts predicting the end of its life ?

Jim Hawkins

> 

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:35:47 GMT, "DB." 
wrote:


>Train services face eight days of disruption as the Forth Rail Bridge
>closes for the longest period in its 115-year history.


Hmmm, the closure period is 24-31 July inclusive.  First Scotrail seem
to have published a booklet detailing the changes to services over
that period - see
http://www.firstgroup.com/scotrail/content/pdfs/forthbridgeTT.pdf
Although there are the expected rail replacement bus services, some
long distance First Scotrail services are being diverted via Stirling.

Looking at the respective websites, GNER are diverting their services,
but VXC are not running north of Edinburgh, with passengers being
transferred to coaches.  However, the National Rail website claims
that both Virgin *and* GNER will not operate north of Edinburgh!

Paul Harley

-- 
Remove "eeek" to contact me!

Paul Harley wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:35:47 GMT, "DB." 
> wrote:
> 
> Looking at the respective websites, GNER are diverting their services,
> but VXC are not running north of Edinburgh, with passengers being
> transferred to coaches.  However, the National Rail website claims
> that both Virgin *and* GNER will not operate north of Edinburgh!


The two return GNER services are seemingly being run in conjunction with 
fScotRail. I think they're GNER HSTs in what would normally be fScotRail 
paths.

Cheers,
eat

-- 
<><|"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."
....|   -- President Merkin Muffley
ScR|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scot-rail/
Pix|http://photos.eatnet.org.uk/MacCookie <- further adventures

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:16:25 +0100 someone who may be Paul Harley
 wrote this:-


>Hmmm, the closure period is 24-31 July inclusive. 


Some time ago, perhaps 10-15 years ago, they changed the track on
the bridge from Forth Bridge Rail to standard rail. This did not
involve closing the bridge for eight days, though it did involve
reduced timetables and single line working for some time.

In view of this fact I find it very difficult to conceive of any
painting work that would make it necessary to close the bridge for
eight days. The railways have been very cagey about saying what it
is precisely that they are doing, all I have seen is generalised
waffle about "maintenance near the tracks" and similar empty
phrases.

Perhaps they were better engineers in the past, or had not been
infested by the idea of CYA and "replacement" buses to the same
extent.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:30:13 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:

: In view of this fact I find it very difficult to conceive of any
: painting work that would make it necessary to close the bridge for
: eight days. The railways have been very cagey about saying what it
: is precisely that they are doing, all I have seen is generalised
: waffle about "maintenance near the tracks" and similar empty
: phrases.

What's so empty about that? They have to erect scaffolding. That takes
a day. They have to take it down again before s=trains start running. 
That takes a day. Which leaves very little time to do anything useful 
over a weekend.

: Perhaps they were better engineers in the past, or had not been
: infested by the idea of CYA and "replacement" buses to the same
: extent.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, they are actually competent and know what 
they're doing? However, if you are quite sure you could organise work 
on the bridge better, perhaps you could offer your expensive - but I 
am sure worth every penny - consultancy services to Network Rail? I am
sure they would be delighted to have such a depth of expertise and 
experience available to them.

Ian

On 25 Jul 2005 10:56:39 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>: In view of this fact I find it very difficult to conceive of any
>: painting work that would make it necessary to close the bridge for
>: eight days. The railways have been very cagey about saying what it
>: is precisely that they are doing, all I have seen is generalised
>: waffle about "maintenance near the tracks" and similar empty
>: phrases.
>
>What's so empty about that?


I would have thought that is fairly obvious. A non-empty phrase
would tell us what are they working on and how they are doing it.


>They have to erect scaffolding. That takes
>a day. They have to take it down again before s=trains start running. 


Are they? I am only going by what I have seen/read in the mass
media. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases.htm
appears to be silent on what they are doing precisely. If you are
better informed than do share the information.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:16:25 +0100 someone who may be Paul Harley
>  wrote this:-
>
> >Hmmm, the closure period is 24-31 July inclusive.
>
> Some time ago, perhaps 10-15 years ago, they changed the track on
> the bridge from Forth Bridge Rail to standard rail. This did not
> involve closing the bridge for eight days, though it did involve
> reduced timetables and single line working for some time.
>
> In view of this fact I find it very difficult to conceive of any
> painting work that would make it necessary to close the bridge for
> eight days. The railways have been very cagey about saying what it
> is precisely that they are doing, all I have seen is generalised
> waffle about "maintenance near the tracks" and similar empty
> phrases.
>
> Perhaps they were better engineers in the past, or had not been
> infested by the idea of CYA and "replacement" buses to the same
> extent.


According to the BBC news article referred to by the OP they needs to
put up scaffolding to work on the structure immediately above the
tracks.  Now in the old days they would swing on ropes and planks with
pots of paint but in the safety at any price culture that's not
permissible anymore. Also given that they are now doing a different
type of work that should give a longer lasting finish it is probably
impractical to get the equipment they need to the work area without
adequate scaffolding.

jb

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:29:57 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:

: On 25 Jul 2005 10:56:39 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
:  wrote this:-
: 
: >: In view of this fact I find it very difficult to conceive of any
: >: painting work that would make it necessary to close the bridge for
: >: eight days. The railways have been very cagey about saying what it
: >: is precisely that they are doing, all I have seen is generalised
: >: waffle about "maintenance near the tracks" and similar empty
: >: phrases.
: >
: >What's so empty about that?
: 
: I would have thought that is fairly obvious. A non-empty phrase
: would tell us what are they working on and how they are doing it.

True, but why should they bother, frankly? It would be interesting, 
but I don't feel any particular rightto the information.

: >They have to erect scaffolding. That takes
: >a day. They have to take it down again before s=trains start running. 
: 
: Are they? I am only going by what I have seen/read in the mass
: media. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases.htm
: appears to be silent on what they are doing precisely. If you are
: better informed than do share the information.

That's what the Network Rail bloke on the news (sorry, can't remember 
which one) said a couple of days ago. See also

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4704527.stm

Ian

David Hansen wrote:

> On 25 Jul 2005 10:56:39 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
>  wrote this:-
>
> >They have to erect scaffolding. That takes
> >a day. They have to take it down again before s=trains start running.
>
> Are they? I am only going by what I have seen/read in the mass
> media. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases.htm
> appears to be silent on what they are doing precisely. If you are
> better informed than do share the information.


AIUI, the work isn't just painting - it's replacement of corroded
metal, shotblasting of other steelwork and so on - particularly the
stuff that's in close proximity to the running lines. Palmers, the
contractors, have a page of slightly more useful information at
<http://www.palmers-group.com/display.asp?Menu=Forth%20Rail%20Bridge&TopLevel=Projects>.

One reason for the closure of the bridge is the "big bang" theory -
it's quicker, safer and cheaper to concentrate a lot of work into one
long absolute possession than it is to stage work over several shorter
possessions. That might not have been the case 10-15 years ago, but the
modern approach to staff safety is a little more painstaking than it
used to be.

I've heard another tale about the bridge work too, that this time round
it's a lot more thorough than it's been since the bridge was first
built. Network Rail are literally refreshing the parts that BR and its
predecessors simply couldn't reach, because they kept running trains
over them.
-- 
Pat Ricroft, City of Salford, UK
================================

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, David Hansen wrote:


> Are they? I am only going by what I have seen/read in the mass
> media. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases.htm
> appears to be silent on what they are doing precisely. If you are
> better informed than do share the information.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4704527.stm

The scheduled work is to blast the old coatings off, down to the bare 
metal, and apply a new coating that's "designed to last" for 30 years.

During the closure it says this work will be done on areas directly 
above/adjacent to the tracks.


It seems to me that in the "heyday" of this kind of engineering 
venture, a job like that would typically have resulted in several of 
the workmen losing their lives in what were, at the time, perceived to 
be tragic accidents.  I'd say we have moved forwards since then.


Incidentally, something similar was done on Kelvin Bridge (A82) some 
years back.  It was surprising what came to light when the layers of 
tarmac were removed (old tram tracks, tram power ducts, cobbles...)

It is more than just a paint job. A special coating is being applied after 
the shot blasting.


x--   100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x--   30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
x--   Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month
x--   UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

On 25 Jul 2005 11:47:45 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>That's what the Network Rail bloke on the news (sorry, can't remember 
>which one) said a couple of days ago. See also
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4704527.stm


Thanks.

"The 13m facelift, being carried out by at least 170 workers,
involves blasting off old paint and carrying out repairs before
giving the crossing a new coating designed to last 30 years. 

"Rail authorities said the closure was necessary to allow staff to
work safely on steel close to the track. 

"Network Rail spokesman Keith Miller said: "What we're doing over
the next eight days are those structural elements which are directly
above the track that we cannot undertake without scaffolding. 

""We really need that level of access to get the materials in, to
get the men up there and to get the coating on."


And they can't erect scaffolding over one line, with enough space
underneath to bring in materials by trolley (staff can walk)? Pull
the other one.

A colleague did once have scaffolding erected over part of the
station at Aberdeen to do quite a bit of work. It took some time to
organise with the railways, but there were no problems and no
trains/passengers/staff were hit by anything.



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:03:08 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:

: And they can't erect scaffolding over one line, with enough space
: underneath to bring in materials by trolley (staff can walk)? Pull
: the other one.

Theire answer seems to be that they could, but it's much quicker this 
way.

Is there any expert in any field whom you trust?

Ian

--

"Ian Johnston"  wrote:


>Or perhaps, just perhaps, they are actually competent and know what 
>they're doing? However, if you are quite sure you could organise work 
>on the bridge better, perhaps you could offer your expensive - but I 
>am sure worth every penny - consultancy services to Network Rail? I am
>sure they would be delighted to have such a depth of expertise and 
>experience available to them.



Do Network rail have any need of yet another amateurish web site?

;-)

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:23:33 UTC, Tony Polson  wrote:

: "Ian Johnston"  wrote:
: 
: >Or perhaps, just perhaps, they are actually competent and know what 
: >they're doing? However, if you are quite sure you could organise work 
: >on the bridge better, perhaps you could offer your expensive - but I 
: >am sure worth every penny - consultancy services to Network Rail? I am
: >sure they would be delighted to have such a depth of expertise and 
: >experience available to them.
: 
: 
: Do Network rail have any need of yet another amateurish web site?

Excellent, personal abuse.

Ian

On 25 Jul 2005 14:37:11 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>: And they can't erect scaffolding over one line, with enough space
>: underneath to bring in materials by trolley (staff can walk)? Pull
>: the other one.
>
>Theire answer seems to be that they could, but it's much quicker this 
>way.


Where do they say this?



-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:07:52 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:

: On 25 Jul 2005 14:37:11 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
:  wrote this:-
: 
: >: And they can't erect scaffolding over one line, with enough space
: >: underneath to bring in materials by trolley (staff can walk)? Pull
: >: the other one.
: >
: >Theire answer seems to be that they could, but it's much quicker this 
: >way.
: 
: Where do they say this?

Sorry, David, you are of course absolutely right. 

They could perfectly well do the whole job in a couple of days (given 
enough plastic sheeting) but are deliberately closing the bridge for a
week as part of a global plot involving the Illuminati, oil companies,
media cartels, the police, Halliburton and MacDonalds.

Thank God for feisty fighters for truth like yourself (excellent, 
personal compliments) and Indymedia who dare to tell us what They 
don't want us to know. I only hope, for your sake, that you are taking
suitable precautions for your own safety. There are probably Network 
Rail operatives with silenced derusting tools skulking in the shadows 
outside your office as I write. Remember, do not take the first cab 
which presents itself, nor the second.

I salute your courage and indefatigability.

Ian

"Ian Johnston"  wrote:


>On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:23:33 UTC, Tony Polson  wrote:
>
>: "Ian Johnston"  wrote:
>: 
>: >Or perhaps, just perhaps, they are actually competent and know what 
>: >they're doing? However, if you are quite sure you could organise work 
>: >on the bridge better, perhaps you could offer your expensive - but I 
>: >am sure worth every penny - consultancy services to Network Rail? I am
>: >sure they would be delighted to have such a depth of expertise and 
>: >experience available to them.
>: 
>: 
>: Do Network rail have any need of yet another amateurish web site?
>
>Excellent, personal abuse.



I think you meant to say "Nice try".

On 25 Jul 2005 04:53:51, "Pat Ricroft"  wrote:

>
>AIUI, the work isn't just painting - it's replacement of corroded
>metal, shotblasting of other steelwork and so on - particularly the
>stuff that's in close proximity to the running lines. Palmers, the
>contractors, have a page of slightly more useful information at
><http://www.palmers-group.com/display.asp?Menu=Forth%20Rail%20Bridge&TopLevel=Projects>.


Wow!  Excellent site, with some great photos!  Why the hell can't
Network Rail offer information as good as this?


>I've heard another tale about the bridge work too, that this time round
>it's a lot more thorough than it's been since the bridge was first
>built. Network Rail are literally refreshing the parts that BR and its
>predecessors simply couldn't reach, because they kept running trains
>over them.


That's good!  IIRC somebody did some painting a few years ago which
was found to be of poor quality and was adjudged to require re-doing
within a few years.

Paul Harley

-- 
Remove "eeek" to contact me!

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 19:06:57 +0100 someone who may be Paul Harley
 wrote this:-


>><http://www.palmers-group.com/display.asp?Menu=Forth%20Rail%20Bridge&TopLevel=Projects>.
>
>Wow!  Excellent site, with some great photos!


It is indeed.


>Why the hell can't
>Network Rail offer information as good as this?


Probably because they are not selling the railway.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In article , David Hansen
 writes

>On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:16:25 +0100 someone who may be Paul Harley
> wrote this:-
>
>>Hmmm, the closure period is 24-31 July inclusive. 
>
>Some time ago, perhaps 10-15 years ago, they changed the track on
>the bridge from Forth Bridge Rail to standard rail. This did not
>involve closing the bridge for eight days, though it did involve
>reduced timetables and single line working for some time.
>
>In view of this fact I find it very difficult to conceive of any
>painting work that would make it necessary to close the bridge for
>eight days. The railways have been very cagey about saying what it
>is precisely that they are doing, all I have seen is generalised
>waffle about "maintenance near the tracks" and similar empty
>phrases.
>
>Perhaps they were better engineers in the past, or had not been
>infested by the idea of CYA and "replacement" buses to the same
>extent.
>
>


Perhaps they didn't have the "compensation culture" and all the HSE
stuff to contend with?.....

-- 
Tony Sayer

"Chris McBrien"  wrote in message 
news:d31272b19c214aabb8a6d2d42cf8f827@ureader.com...

> It is more than just a paint job. A special coating is being applied after
> the shot blasting.
>

A Mackintosh....(or is Macintosh, or McIntosh........or..)?!!!!!!!!

"Alan J. Flavell"  wrote in message 
news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0507251238510.1572@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk...

> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, David Hansen wrote:
>
>> Are they? I am only going by what I have seen/read in the mass
>> media. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases.htm
>> appears to be silent on what they are doing precisely. If you are
>> better informed than do share the information.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4704527.stm
>
> The scheduled work is to blast the old coatings off, down to the bare
> metal, and apply a new coating that's "designed to last" for 30 years.
>
> During the closure it says this work will be done on areas directly
> above/adjacent to the tracks.
>
>
> It seems to me that in the "heyday" of this kind of engineering
> venture, a job like that would typically have resulted in several of
> the workmen losing their lives in what were, at the time, perceived to
> be tragic accidents.  I'd say we have moved forwards since then.
>
>
> Incidentally, something similar was done on Kelvin Bridge (A82) some
> years back.  It was surprising what came to light when the layers of
> tarmac were removed (old tram tracks, tram power ducts, cobbles...)


Its also "surprising" that in a year or two of a "modern" coating having 
been so scientifically applied, it all goes pear-shaperd, and peels, drips, 
falls etc.; off , due, of course, to "unforseen" circumstances, ie. the 
weather, the political climate, the monsoons being late in SE Asia, and the 
moon being in the wrong quarter, not to mention the slide-rule/computer used 
for the specification  having had a bad-hair day and suffering an XP 
"outage"!.

Dave

"Jeremy Barker"  wrote in message 
news:1122291844.724805.142060@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>
>
> David Hansen wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:16:25 +0100 someone who may be Paul Harley
>>  wrote this:-
>>
>> >Hmmm, the closure period is 24-31 July inclusive.

eight days[snip}

a different  type of work that should give a longer lasting finish

Longer lasting? Who's pulling who's what?! No modern stuff has any "lasting" 
qualities! They may claim it, but that doesn't sell more paint - flaking, 
fading and peeling does! Modern paints are so thin, and so rigid, they don't 
move with the expansion and contraction of the metal under them, and also 
seem to have little in the way of keying to the metal and base coats, they 
give up at the sight of any  variations in the weather. The fimishes on 
boats and ships haven't improved in lasting qualities even with all the 
modern science thats applied. Two to three years, and faults start 
appearing, and rust follows on behind.

Dave.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:55:56 +0100 someone who may be "Alan J.
Flavell"  wrote this:-


>It seems to me that in the "heyday" of this kind of engineering 
>venture, a job like that would typically have resulted in several of 
>the workmen losing their lives in what were, at the time, perceived to 
>be tragic accidents.  I'd say we have moved forwards since then.


Nobody was killed when the rails were replaced.

I wonder if anyone has been killed painting the girders immediately
above the tracks either, though they may have been seriously injured
if they landed in the wrong place. The risk of being killed in such
a fall is low rather then zero. Suitable scaffolding over one track
would minimise the risk.

People have been killed falling off higher parts of the bridge and
falling into the water. The scaffolding reduces this risk, though at
great cost, while providing a suitable frame on which to mount the
plastic sheeting which enables work to continue in most weather.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In article <dc3iq8$s69$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, speedy
 writes

>
>"Jeremy Barker"  wrote in message 
>news:1122291844.724805.142060@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> David Hansen wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:16:25 +0100 someone who may be Paul Harley
>>>  wrote this:-
>>>
>>> >Hmmm, the closure period is 24-31 July inclusive.
>eight days[snip}
>
>a different  type of work that should give a longer lasting finish
>
>Longer lasting? Who's pulling who's what?! No modern stuff has any "lasting" 
>qualities! They may claim it, but that doesn't sell more paint - flaking, 
>fading and peeling does! Modern paints are so thin, and so rigid, they don't 
>move with the expansion and contraction of the metal under them, and also 
>seem to have little in the way of keying to the metal and base coats, they 
>give up at the sight of any  variations in the weather. The fimishes on 
>boats and ships haven't improved in lasting qualities even with all the 
>modern science thats applied. Two to three years, and faults start 
>appearing, and rust follows on behind.
>
>Dave. 
>
>


Perhaps this stuff is of an "Industrial strength" that you don't buy in
the DIY sheds?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:29:07 UTC, David Hansen 
 wrote:

: I wonder if anyone has been killed painting the girders immediately
: above the tracks either, though they may have been seriously injured
: if they landed in the wrong place. The risk of being killed in such
: a fall is low rather then zero. Suitable scaffolding over one track
: would minimise the risk.

David, how exactly do you know what scaffolding is required, where it 
has to be placed, how long it takes to put there, how long it has to 
stay there and what has to be done when it's there? You claim to know 
far better than the people who maintain the bridge how they should be 
doing their job - can you justify that claim in any way?

Ian

--

On 25 Jul 2005 22:07:03 GMT someone who may be "Ian Johnston"
 wrote this:-


>You claim to know 
>far better than the people who maintain the bridge how they should be 
>doing their job


Incorrect.

I am simply asking questions. So far nobody has provided a
convincing answer to these questions.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

In message , at 07:11:41 on 
Tue, 26 Jul 2005, David Hansen  
remarked:

>I am simply asking questions. So far nobody has provided a
>convincing answer to these questions.


Lots of answers, but none that have convinced you.
-- 
Roland Perry

tony sayer wrote:


> Perhaps this stuff is of an "Industrial strength" that you don't buy in
> the DIY sheds?....


Never mind all that - what colour are they painting it? I hope it's
not that dreadful red again.

-- 
Chris Game

What is a "free" gift ?  Aren't all gifts free?

DB. wrote:

> Train services face eight days of disruption as the Forth Rail Bridge
> closes for the longest period in its 115-year history.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4704527.stm


There was some splendid footage of what looked to be a maroon class 47
coming off the bridge onto the north side on local BBC TV - Prince
William or Harry I suspect.  Not sure if the footage was just shot - I
have seen them a few times recently and the weather matched.

Paul Harley wrote:

> 
> ><http://www.palmers-group.com/display.asp?Menu=Forth%20Rail%20Bridge&TopLevel=Projects>.
> 
> Wow!  Excellent site, with some great photos!


I particularly like this shot:
<http://www.palmers-group.com/enlarge.asp?aID=1071>.

Now /that's/ a job I /never/ want to do!
-- 
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================
Do something amazing. Give blood.
<http://www.blood.co.uk/>

Chris Game wrote:

> 
> Never mind all that - what colour are they painting it? I hope it's
> not that dreadful red again.


But of course! It is officially "Forth Bridge Red".
<http://www.rls.org.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-512-288-C&searchdb=scran>

According to Balfour Beatty's website (they're the main contractors on
this job), "The paint used to coat the bridge  the unique Forth Bridge
Red colour - is a specialist glass flake epoxy paint, similar to that
used in the offshore oil industry and designed to last at least 20
years". <http://www.balfourbeatty.com/bbeatty/media/pr/2002/2002-05-28/>

The Sunday Herald has even more information: "Its technical name is
Transguard TG168, a nice question for any pub trivia types. The unique
Forth Bridge red has been replicated by Leigh's using iron oxide pigment
and a mix of titanium dioxide to give it the colour."
<http://www.sundayherald.com/26467> (July 2002)

Did someone mention microns? Top coat is 35 microns, apparently.
-- 
Joyce Whitchurch, Stalybridge, UK
=================================
Do something amazing. Give blood.
<http://www.blood.co.uk/>

> I particularly like this shot:
> <http://www.palmers-group.com/enlarge.asp?aID=1071>.



Definitely cause to clench the sphincter, even with a safety harness.

In message , at 14:12:13 on Tue, 26 
Jul 2005, Joyce Whitchurch  remarked:

>I particularly like this shot:
><http://www.palmers-group.com/enlarge.asp?aID=1071>.


What's the purple smoke obscuring a lot of the detail?
-- 
Roland Perry

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:53:51 UTC, "Pat Ricroft" 
 wrote:

: AIUI, the work isn't just painting - it's replacement of corroded
: metal, shotblasting of other steelwork and so on - particularly the
: stuff that's in close proximity to the running lines. Palmers, the
: contractors, have a page of slightly more useful information at
: <http://www.palmers-group.com/display.asp?Menu=Forth%20Rail%20Bridge&TopLevel=Projects>.

That really does illustrate well how much more they are doing than 
simply slapping on another coat of Forth Bridge Red.

Ian 


--

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:27:29 UTC, "1501"  wrote:

: > I particularly like this shot:
: > <http://www.palmers-group.com/enlarge.asp?aID=1071>.
: 
: 
: Definitely cause to clench the sphincter, even with a safety harness.

Eh? Where do they fit safety harnesses these days?

Ian

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:12:13 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Joyce
Whitchurch  wrote this:-


>I particularly like this shot:
><http://www.palmers-group.com/enlarge.asp?aID=1071>.
>
>Now /that's/ a job I /never/ want to do!


Don't tell the Railway Inspectorate. It looks rather more dangerous
than the "unsafe" practices which were banned.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:21:18 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Joyce
Whitchurch  wrote this:-


>The Sunday Herald has even more information: "Its technical name is
>Transguard TG168, a nice question for any pub trivia types. The unique
>Forth Bridge red has been replicated by Leigh's using iron oxide pigment
>and a mix of titanium dioxide to give it the colour."


When the "old fashioned" paint and staff were replaced by Railtrack
then there was concern that the colour would be changed. However,
they indicated that the colour would remain and this has happened
with the first contractor and the current one.

http://www.rcwf.co.uk/index.php?ID=1578&CATEGORY2=1-News has one
view of the change to the paint used.


-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Tony Polson wrote:


> Do Network rail have any need of yet another amateurish web site?


Well, if they do, then they need to be careful to make sure that they
are clear in their requirements - one misunderstanding and they could
end up booking a whisky tasting session, talking about tramway schemes,
or discussing a defunct wine importer.  That's the Duke Street hive of
commerce and industry for you...

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:21:18, Joyce Whitchurch
 wrote:

>
>But of course! It is officially "Forth Bridge Red".
><http://www.rls.org.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-512-288-C&searchdb=scran>
>
>According to Balfour Beatty's website (they're the main contractors on
>this job), "The paint used to coat the bridge  the unique Forth Bridge
>Red colour - is a specialist glass flake epoxy paint, similar to that
>used in the offshore oil industry and designed to last at least 20
>years". <http://www.balfourbeatty.com/bbeatty/media/pr/2002/2002-05-28/>
>
>The Sunday Herald has even more information: "Its technical name is
>Transguard TG168, a nice question for any pub trivia types. The unique
>Forth Bridge red has been replicated by Leigh's using iron oxide pigment
>and a mix of titanium dioxide to give it the colour."
><http://www.sundayherald.com/26467> (July 2002)


More fascinating reading - thanks for listing these URLs.


>Did someone mention microns? Top coat is 35 microns, apparently.


I mentioned tonnes!  The new paint will weigh a certain amount, but
they are blasting off the old (thicker?) paint and crud, so will the
bridge eventually weigh less than it does at the moment?

Paul Harley

-- 
Remove "eeek" to contact me!

Paul Harley wrote:

> I mentioned tonnes!  The new paint will weigh a certain amount, but
> they are blasting off the old (thicker?) paint and crud, so will the
> bridge eventually weigh less than it does at the moment?



Probably it will weight less, but will it be significantly less?
-- 
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>

Bruce Fletcher (r1card1an@bt1nternet.c0m) said:

> Paul Harley wrote:
> > I mentioned tonnes!  The new paint will weigh a certain
> > amount, but they are blasting off the old (thicker?)
> > paint and crud, so will the bridge eventually weigh
> > less than it does at the moment?
>
>
> Probably it will weight less, but will it be
> significantly less?


It'll be, in absolute terms, a very large saving. Just imagine how heavy 
a regular tin of paint is, and how innocently it just hangs onto a wall! 
As a percentage of the overall weight of the bridge I doubt if it will 
be much at all.

-- 
Andrew

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:08:30, Bruce Fletcher
<r1card1an@bt1nternet.c0m> wrote:

>> I mentioned tonnes!  The new paint will weigh a certain amount, but
>> they are blasting off the old (thicker?) paint and crud, so will the
>> bridge eventually weigh less than it does at the moment?
>
>Probably it will weight less, but will it be significantly less?


Not significantly, but I suspect there may be a minute reduction.  I
wonder if the old paint was lead based (I'm not thinking about the
weight aspect here - more the health hazard to those removing it)?

One of the interesting facts mentioned in 
http://www.sundayherald.com/26467
is that the scaffolding weighs 11 tonnes, despite it being aluminium!

Paul Harley

-- 
Remove "eeek" to contact me!

In article , Paul Harley 
 writes

>I mentioned tonnes!  The new paint will weigh a certain amount, but
>they are blasting off the old (thicker?) paint and crud, so will the
>bridge eventually weigh less than it does at the moment?


Presumably.

According to the visitor centre website, the surface area is 18ha (1.8e5 
m^2) and the new paint is 470um thick in total. That's a volume of 
85m^3. Assuming dry paint has a relative density of around 2.5, that's 
approximately 200 tonnes of paint.

Compared with about 51,000 tonnes for the bridge as a whole.

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather                       | Home: 
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work)             | Web:  <http://www.davros.org>
Fax: +44 870 051 9937                    | Work: 
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: