....those wonderful brave armed police on the London underground this
morning,well done lads.
if the guy didn't have anything to hide he wouldn't be running away.
how long before the politically correct do-gooders start banging on about
his human rights,these lefty do-gooders are undermining our beautiful land
just as much as the terrorist's & their supporters.
there I feel better for that!

I await a further post from you on this subject ...

"aj"  wrote in message 
news:42e0f3a1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...

> ...those wonderful brave armed police on the London underground this
> morning,well done lads.
> if the guy didn't have anything to hide he wouldn't be running away.
> how long before the politically correct do-gooders start banging on about
> his human rights,these lefty do-gooders are undermining our beautiful land
> just as much as the terrorist's & their supporters.
> there I feel better for that!
>
> 

David Marks wrote:

> I await a further post from you on this subject ...


Me too....

Kezzi-hackles-up-lefty-dogooder-ready-to-bang-on-about-human-rights

Give us yer email addy and I'll put that in full for ya!!
dirtyUNDERSCOREsanchezATwestshapeDOTcoDOTuk




> "aj"  wrote in message
> news:42e0f3a1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>> ...those wonderful murdering pigs on the London underground
>> this morning,well done lads.
>> if the guy wasn't late for his train he wouldn't be running.
>> how long before the politically correct do-gooders start banging on
>> about his human rights, these lefty do-gooders are undermining our
>> beautiful land just as much as the terrorist's & their supporters.
>> there I feel better for that! 

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:08:36 +0100, Dirty Sanchez wrote:


>>> if the guy wasn't late for his train he wouldn't be running.
>>
>> I await a further post from you on this subject ...
> 
> Me too....


Can you see arriving trains or trains at platforms from the street 
outside of Stockwell tube station? Can you know that you are about to 
miss a train? This is the tube remember there will be another along in 
a few minutes anyway, there seems little point in running for one from 
*outside* the station.

They guy was challenged by armed officers, failed to stop, indeed did 
a runner into the station, vaulting the turnstiles and headed for a 
train, he has to take the consequences of his actions.

Hindsight is wonderful, put out of your mind everything that has come 
to light since. What would people be saying if the guy had been a 
bomber, wasn't stopped and had blown himself up inside a carriage? 
They would be jumping down the authorities throats for *NOT* shooting 
him dead when they had the chance. You can't have it both ways.

-- 
Cheers                                              new5pam@howhill.com
Dave.                                             pam is missing e-mail

Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:08:36 +0100, Dirty Sanchez wrote:
>
>>>> if the guy wasn't late for his train he wouldn't be running.
>>>
>>> I await a further post from you on this subject ...
>>
>> Me too....
>
> Can you see arriving trains or trains at platforms from the street
> outside of Stockwell tube station? Can you know that you are about to
> miss a train? This is the tube remember there will be another along in
> a few minutes anyway, there seems little point in running for one from
> *outside* the station.
>
> They guy was challenged by armed officers, failed to stop, indeed did
> a runner into the station, vaulting the turnstiles and headed for a
> train, he has to take the consequences of his actions.
>
> Hindsight is wonderful, put out of your mind everything that has come
> to light since. What would people be saying if the guy had been a
> bomber, wasn't stopped and had blown himself up inside a carriage?
> They would be jumping down the authorities throats for *NOT* shooting
> him dead when they had the chance. You can't have it both ways.


Well let's just go round shooting every bugger just in case... At least an 
apology afterwards seems to suffice. Maybe the Muslim bashers are right 
too...

Whatever his reasons for running and failing to heed the armed fascists he 
was still an innocent.

On Sunday 24 July 2005 20:57 Dave Liquorice wrote:


> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:08:36 +0100, Dirty Sanchez wrote:
> 
>>>> if the guy wasn't late for his train he wouldn't be running.
>>>
>>> I await a further post from you on this subject ...
>> 
>> Me too....
> 
> Can you see arriving trains or trains at platforms from the street
> outside of Stockwell tube station? Can you know that you are about to
> miss a train? This is the tube remember there will be another along in
> a few minutes anyway, there seems little point in running for one from
> *outside* the station.
> 
> They guy was challenged by armed officers, failed to stop, indeed did
> a runner into the station, vaulting the turnstiles and headed for a
> train, he has to take the consequences of his actions.
> 
> Hindsight is wonderful, put out of your mind everything that has come
> to light since. What would people be saying if the guy had been a
> bomber, wasn't stopped and had blown himself up inside a carriage?
> They would be jumping down the authorities throats for *NOT* shooting
> him dead when they had the chance. You can't have it both ways.
> 


The trouble is that I understand the police were not in uniform and looked
like south London thugs. 

I think in that part of London as an innocent passer-by I might think
instinctively:- 
I haven't seen a policeman - they are criminals whatever they are shouting -
if they want to shoot they wouldn't shout - they must want me to stop and
be robbed or something - telling me they have guns is just a threat - I'll
run to a crowd where they are unlikely to follow. 

Now if they had been in uniform and had been obvious it would be quite
different. 

I can't see a good reason why out of uniform Police should be creeping about
carrying guns. It's the criminals who need to hide.

Maybe it's not that simple. But if that's so mistakes will happen.

I feel dreadfully sorry for everybody involved in this mess and in my view
the blame lies with Tony Blair who forced us into a stupid war and, to a
lesser extent, those who set engagement rules for the police.

Edgar

"Edgar Iredale" <Please@no.spam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:dc1066$6r9$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...

> On Sunday 24 July 2005 20:57 Dave Liquorice wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:08:36 +0100, Dirty Sanchez wrote:
>>
>>>>> if the guy wasn't late for his train he wouldn't be running.
>>>>
>>>> I await a further post from you on this subject ...



This mistake by the police is unforgiveable BUT we do not know what 
information the officers were fed about the suspect or the events leading up 
to the shooting.  The answer may be as simple as someone viewing CCTV 
footage in a control centre and making a wrong decision about the victim's 
identity.  I'm afraid, in the heat of the moment, this could happen again. 
The balance between trying to make the streets safe from sucide bombers and 
the mistaken involvement of innocent bystanders is impossible to strike on 
every occasion.
My sincere sympathies to the victim and his family.

Rex.

On Monday 25 July 2005 08:21 Norcot wrote:


> 
> "Edgar Iredale" <Please@no.spam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:dc1066$6r9$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> On Sunday 24 July 2005 20:57 Dave Liquorice wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:08:36 +0100, Dirty Sanchez wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> if the guy wasn't late for his train he wouldn't be running.
>>>>>
>>>>> I await a further post from you on this subject ...
> 
> 
> This mistake by the police is unforgiveable BUT we do not know what
> information the officers were fed about the suspect or the events leading
> up
> to the shooting.  The answer may be as simple as someone viewing CCTV
> footage in a control centre and making a wrong decision about the victim's
> identity.  I'm afraid, in the heat of the moment, this could happen again.
> The balance between trying to make the streets safe from sucide bombers
> and the mistaken involvement of innocent bystanders is impossible to
> strike on every occasion.
> My sincere sympathies to the victim and his family.
> 
> Rex.


They should be in uniform if they are carrying guns. And police with guns
should be trained to cope with "heat of the moment" situations properly.

I don't blame the individual policemen nearly so much as the people who set
the rules which allowed this disaster to happen.

Edgar

Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:08:36 +0100, Dirty Sanchez wrote:

>>> if the guy wasn't late for his train he wouldn't be running.

> Can you see arriving trains or trains at platforms from the street
> outside of Stockwell tube station?


Having lived and worked in London for 7 years I can assure you that you can 
*hear* the trains arriving at Stockwell - and many other stations. You even 
learn to recognise the rush of air that ascends the staircases and 
air-vents.


> Can you know that you are about to
> miss a train? This is the tube remember there will be another along in
> a few minutes anyway, there seems little point in running for one from
> *outside* the station.


If you have a mainline connection to make it's often pointless waiting for 
the next tube to come along if you are already late. Even though you are 
right in stating that 'there will be another along in a few minutes' it's 
surprising how many people *do* run to catch the current train.


> They guy was challenged by armed officers, failed to stop, indeed did
> a runner into the station, vaulting the turnstiles and headed for a
> train, he has to take the consequences of his actions.


Challenged by plain clothed armed, unidentifiable 'officers' who may have 
been gangsters. I wouldn't have stopped either. "Did a runner"? No.... ran 
into the station. We can only guess as to why. He was followed to the 
station, allowed to board a bus, dismount.... Why couldn't a Section 65 have 
been implemented and the Police just surround and search before allowing him 
into what became a critical situation.

I have run into many a tube station and vaulted the barriers when I've been 
late. The consequences to be faced at the destination are all to common and 
well understood by the ticket officersguards. Queuing for a ticket often 
means the difference between missing a mainline connection; meeting; 
whatever, and not.... Despite ones best intentions it is a fact of life that 
sometimes we are late. We rush. A little bit more accelerator; a bit nippier 
on the feet..... BUT being chased by a 'gang' of up to (according to an eye 
witness) twenty guys, of course I'd run! I'd run if it were two brandishing 
a gun! Guilty because he was wearing a 'heavy' jacket in summer? My wife 
does this all the time. She's Singaporean and feels cold unlike myself. God 
forbid the 'accidents' that will occur in winter.... Anyway, they'd caught 
him after he tripped and was pushed to the floor, bundled on top of him, and 
then shot him 5 times in the head. Overkill? A notch on somebody's barrel?


> Hindsight is wonderful, put out of your mind everything that has come
> to light since. What would people be saying if the guy had been a
> bomber, wasn't stopped and had blown himself up inside a carriage?
> They would be jumping down the authorities throats for *NOT* shooting
> him dead when they had the chance. You can't have it both ways.


I have made my views clear on this point and reading the statement from 
Commissioner Blair last night he said 'it may happen again'. I really hope 
it's not you or I or any member of our families. I like our little chats. ;)

> The trouble is that I understand the police were not in
> uniform and looked like south London thugs. 
> 
> I think in that part of London as an innocent passer-by I
> might think instinctively:- 
> I haven't seen a policeman - they are criminals whatever
> they are shouting - if they want to shoot they wouldn't
> shout - they must want me to stop and be robbed or
> something - telling me they have guns is just a threat -
> I'll run to a crowd where they are unlikely to follow. 
> 
> Now if they had been in uniform and had been obvious it
> would be quite different. 
> 
> I can't see a good reason why out of uniform Police should
> be creeping about carrying guns. It's the criminals who
> need to hide. 
> 
> Maybe it's not that simple. But if that's so mistakes will
> happen. 
> 
> I feel dreadfully sorry for everybody involved in this mess
> and in my view the blame lies with Tony Blair who forced us
> into a stupid war and, to a lesser extent, those who set
> engagement rules for the police. 
> 
> Edgar


Well said Edgar.

Although it is lamentable that there is an American-style 
'shoot first and ask questions later' policy in place in 
Britain you can be proud of the fact that within days the 
police have admitted their mistake. In the USA, they would 
never have admitted the poor guy was innocent so quickly. It 
would take a ten year investigation to bring out that fact - 
long after those responsible were gone.

You Brits have a lot to learn about doing things the American 
way.

Johnny-gunz-a-blazin

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"David Marks"  wrote in message
news:dbvm16$kpe$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...

> I await a further post from you on this subject ...
>
> "aj"  wrote in message
> news:42e0f3a1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> > ...those wonderful brave armed police on the London underground this
> > morning,well done lads.
> > if the guy didn't have anything to hide he wouldn't be running away.
> > how long before the politically correct do-gooders start banging on
about
> > his human rights,these lefty do-gooders are undermining our beautiful
land
> > just as much as the terrorist's & their supporters.
> > there I feel better for that!
> >
> >
>
>

here's my further post,the police made a tragic  error & I along with the
British press & most of the British people jumped the gun but no apology & I
hope the family of the Brazilian don't get a penny for their son who was
here illegally anyway.

> here's my further post,the police made a tragic  error & I along with the
> British press & most of the British people jumped the gun but no apology &
I
> hope the family of the Brazilian don't get a penny for their son who was
> here illegally anyway.
>

The police are just as much in danger as we are. They are not super men. Put
anyone under pressure and you'll get the same results. I'm glad they are
trying to do something about terrorism. Only a fool wouldn't want them to.
Except for...work that one our yourself.

As for fighting shadows. Would you be any better at it.?

Up the British Police Force.

Patriotic Edith.