BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut because drivers
are refusing to work:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>

-- 
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>

Graeme Wall wrote:

> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut because drivers
> are refusing to work:
>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>


Obviously RMT members.

Joe wrote:

> Graeme Wall wrote:
>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>
>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>
> Obviously RMT members.


Apparently so.

"The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has pledged to back any
employee who refused to work normally on grounds of safety following the
latest explosions. Bob Crow, of the RMT, said "enormous pressure" was
put on Tube workers to continue working as normal following the blasts
and that staff had expected the entire network to be shut down. He
added: "At the emergency meeting today we were told that lines
apparently unaffected by the attacks should continue running."  He said
they would be discussing these issues in a meeting with the mayor on
Friday."

LU say that the Bakerloo is running normally, but that the Piccadilly is
running only from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters.

Any comment from Arnos Grove staff on why the Piccadilly drivers are
taking a different line from their colleagues?

Crossposted to u.t.l
FU set to u.t.l
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Joe wrote:

> Graeme Wall wrote:
>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>
>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>
> Obviously RMT members.


Apparently so.

"The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has pledged to back any
employee who refused to work normally on grounds of safety following the
latest explosions. Bob Crow, of the RMT, said "enormous pressure" was
put on Tube workers to continue working as normal following the blasts
and that staff had expected the entire network to be shut down. He
added: "At the emergency meeting today we were told that lines
apparently unaffected by the attacks should continue running."  He said
they would be discussing these issues in a meeting with the mayor on
Friday."

LU say that the Bakerloo is running normally, but that the Piccadilly is
running only from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters.

Any comment from Arnos Grove staff on why the Piccadilly drivers are
taking a different line from their colleagues?

Crossposted to u.t.l
FU set to u.t.l
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Joe"  wrote in message
news:1121978777.887612.187920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> Graeme Wall wrote:
> > BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut because
drivers
> > are refusing to work:
> >
> > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>
> Obviously RMT members.


And the fact that it is a) nice sunny weather, b) the cricket is on and or
coure c) the summer holidays are kicking off is probably a coincidence.

Cynical.... moi?

Its just you notice they never seem to call strikes when there is nothing on
and the weather is lousy......

On 21 Jul 2005 13:46:17 -0700, Joe wrote in
, seen in
uk.railway:

> Graeme Wall wrote:

> > BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut because drivers
> > are refusing to work:
> >
> > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
> 
> Obviously RMT members.


You might like to ask ASLEF what their position is on LUL post-0707
before making assumptions.

To quote from a circular which has arrived in my inbox:


> this Executive Committee wishes to place on record its sadness 
> at the events of 7th July 2005 and offers its condolences to those 
> families who lost loved ones as a result.
> 
> Further, that the report in respect of Train Radios, 'HOT' 
> procedure, Seat Security and Un-staffed stations be adopted and 
> the General Secretary be instructed to advise the Managing 
> Director, LUL that our members will act accordingly and in line 
> with the report in respect of these issues to protect the interests 
> of the travelling public and our members.


It goes on to explain that there are serious concerns over problems
with the train radios, the adequacy of the "Hidden, Obvious & Typical"
procedure for dealing with suspect packages, trains running around
with unsecured seats (presumably because there's a risk of people
putting nasty things in the void beneath the seat on quiet sections of
route for later activation) and I believe unstaffed stations have been
a matter of concern for some time.

Of course, I may well have completely misunderstood the circular, not
being a tube driver.

-- 
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

"Richard J."  wrote in message 
news:XOUDe.74908$G8.27634@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Joe wrote:
>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>>
>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>>
>> Obviously RMT members.
>
> Apparently so.
>
> "The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has pledged to back any
> employee who refused to work normally on grounds of safety following the
> latest explosions. Bob Crow, of the RMT, said "enormous pressure" was
> put on Tube workers to continue working as normal following the blasts
> and that staff had expected the entire network to be shut down. He
> added: "At the emergency meeting today we were told that lines
> apparently unaffected by the attacks should continue running."  He said
> they would be discussing these issues in a meeting with the mayor on
> Friday."
>
> LU say that the Bakerloo is running normally, but that the Piccadilly is
> running only from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters.
>
> Any comment from Arnos Grove staff on why the Piccadilly drivers are
> taking a different line from their colleagues?
>
> Crossposted to u.t.l
> FU set to u.t.l
> -- 
> Richard J.
> (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
>


All staff are trained what to look out for, how to determine if a package is 
suspect (or at least what is not normal for the area). A driver has to check 
their train each time they change ends usually for mundane stuff like lost 
property but also train defects and anything out of the ordinary. If they 
suspect that the item is not all it seems to be then there is a process to 
deal with it. I.e., get it check by station staff. If they are not happy 
then a call to the BTP will usually sort it out. Station are trained in 
where to look, what to look for and what to do if they suspect something, 
well suspect. I hear that after the last bombings, drivers refused to drive 
trains until their trains were inspected by a professional. What the hell 
are drivers if not professionals. Would LUL staff like all buildings and 
infrastructure checked before the start of the day by the bomb squad? What 
do they want? And, if is suspected, the original bombers were suicide 
bombers, then what. An armed guard at each location and on each train? What 
about the other staff. I didn't hear any signalling staff not working. I 
didn't hear any train technicians refusing to work. What about nurses? No. 
What about the police? No. Yes most of us in London were affected in one way 
shape or form (and I thank my lucky stars neither my friends, family or I 
were hurt) but to then go on and make a mockery out of the LUL workers who 
worked so well of July 7th and returned to work and today, just makes me 
sick. Will LUL discipline these militant staff? I think not

Rant over, beer being taken to calm nerves. Mmmmmmmmmmmm

Loony T

On 21 Jul 2005 13:46:17 -0700, "Joe" 
wrote:


>Graeme Wall wrote:
>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut because drivers
>> are refusing to work:
>>
>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>
>Obviously RMT members.


Why assume the union members are the root of the bother? It only needs
one macho/jobsworth manager to mess up most organisations' smooth
running but when that occurs the media will often still report it as
"those bloody unions again".

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:52:55 GMT, "Richard J." 
wrote:


>Joe wrote:
>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>>
>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>>
>> Obviously RMT members.
>
>Apparently so.
>
>"The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has pledged to back any
>employee who refused to work normally on grounds of safety following the
>latest explosions. Bob Crow, of the RMT, said "enormous pressure" was
>put on Tube workers to continue working as normal following the blasts
>and that staff had expected the entire network to be shut down. He
>added: "At the emergency meeting today we were told that lines
>apparently unaffected by the attacks should continue running."  He said
>they would be discussing these issues in a meeting with the mayor on
>Friday."


This "enormous pressure" would therefore not resemble the "enormous
pressure" that the TU head offices are placing on their LU officials to
get staff to not drive trains due to "security concerns".

The TU leaders need to seriously rethink their approach before this
backfires on them.
-- 
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:52:55 GMT, "Richard J."
 wrote:


>Joe wrote:
>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>>
>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>>
>> Obviously RMT members.
>
>Apparently so.
>
>"The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has pledged to back any
>employee who refused to work normally on grounds of safety following the
>latest explosions. Bob Crow, of the RMT, said "enormous pressure" was
>put on Tube workers to continue working as normal following the blasts
>and that staff had expected the entire network to be shut down. He
>added: "At the emergency meeting today we were told that lines
>apparently unaffected by the attacks should continue running."  He said
>they would be discussing these issues in a meeting with the mayor on
>Friday."
>
>LU say that the Bakerloo is running normally, but that the Piccadilly is
>running only from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters.
>
>Any comment from Arnos Grove staff on why the Piccadilly drivers are
>taking a different line from their colleagues?
>

I thought the Piccadilly line was still closed south of Arnos Grove
due to the bombed train still being in the tunnel at Russell Square
from 7/7.


>Crossposted to u.t.l
>FU set to u.t.l
>-- 
>Richard J.
>(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)
>

John F Kappler wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:52:55 GMT, "Richard J."
>  wrote:
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>>>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>>>
>>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>>>
>>> Obviously RMT members.
>>
>> Apparently so.
>>
>> "The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has pledged to back
>> any employee who refused to work normally on grounds of safety
>> following the latest explosions. Bob Crow, of the RMT, said
>> "enormous pressure" was put on Tube workers to continue working as
>> normal following the blasts and that staff had expected the entire
>> network to be shut down. He added: "At the emergency meeting today
>> we were told that lines apparently unaffected by the attacks
>> should continue running."  He said they would be discussing these
>> issues in a meeting with the mayor on Friday."
>>
>> LU say that the Bakerloo is running normally, but that the
>> Piccadilly is running only from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters.
>>
>> Any comment from Arnos Grove staff on why the Piccadilly drivers
>> are taking a different line from their colleagues?
>>
> I thought the Piccadilly line was still closed south of Arnos Grove
> due to the bombed train still being in the tunnel at Russell Square
> from 7/7.


It's closed from Arnos Grove to Hyde Park Corner, but there should be a
service from Hyde Park Corner to Heathrow and a shuttle from Acton Town
to Rayners Lane.  It appears from the LU website that these services are
now working again.    Victoria & Northern Lines back in business too
after yesterday's incidents.
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:52:55 GMT, "Richard J."
 wrote:



>
>LU say that the Bakerloo is running normally, but that the Piccadilly is
>running only from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters.
>
>Any comment from Arnos Grove staff on why the Piccadilly drivers are
>taking a different line from their colleagues?
>

Because the Piccadilly is still shut, following the Russell Square
bomb?

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 06:04:05 GMT, johnk@pceffect.co.uk (John F
Kappler) wrote:


>On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:52:55 GMT, "Richard J."
> wrote:
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>>>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>>>
>>>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>>>
>>> Obviously RMT members.
>>
>>Apparently so.
>>
>>"The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union has pledged to back any
>>employee who refused to work normally on grounds of safety following the
>>latest explosions. Bob Crow, of the RMT, said "enormous pressure" was
>>put on Tube workers to continue working as normal following the blasts
>>and that staff had expected the entire network to be shut down. He
>>added: "At the emergency meeting today we were told that lines
>>apparently unaffected by the attacks should continue running."  He said
>>they would be discussing these issues in a meeting with the mayor on
>>Friday."
>>
>>LU say that the Bakerloo is running normally, but that the Piccadilly is
>>running only from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters.
>>
>>Any comment from Arnos Grove staff on why the Piccadilly drivers are
>>taking a different line from their colleagues?
>>
>I thought the Piccadilly line was still closed south of Arnos Grove
>due to the bombed train still being in the tunnel at Russell Square
>from 7/7.


Only from Arnos Grove to Hyde Park Corner.

The rest of the closure is down to Crow and his agitators. Surprise.

-- 
James Farrar

September's coming soon

Paul Corfield wrote:

>
> This "enormous pressure" would therefore not resemble the "enormous
> pressure" that the TU head offices are placing on their LU officials to
> get staff to not drive trains due to "security concerns".


They seem to forget about the pressure normal commuters are under. The
bombs are in the passenger section of the trains , not in the drivers
cab. They're probably in the safest part of the train.


>
> The TU leaders need to seriously rethink their approach before this
> backfires on them.


Its the RMT. Who expected anything different?

B2003

Boltar wrote:

> Paul Corfield wrote:
>>
>> This "enormous pressure" would therefore not resemble the "enormous
>> pressure" that the TU head offices are placing on their LU officials
>> to get staff to not drive trains due to "security concerns".
>
> They seem to forget about the pressure normal commuters are under. The
> bombs are in the passenger section of the trains , not in the drivers
> cab. They're probably in the safest part of the train.
>
>>
>> The TU leaders need to seriously rethink their approach before this
>> backfires on them.
>
> Its the RMT. Who expected anything different?
>


Apparently the unrest isn't about their own safety, but because of the lack
of communication from those on high during recent incidents.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:02:45 +0000, Brimstone wrote:


> Boltar wrote:
>> Paul Corfield wrote:
>>>
>>> This "enormous pressure" would therefore not resemble the "enormous
>>> pressure" that the TU head offices are placing on their LU officials to
>>> get staff to not drive trains due to "security concerns".
>>
>> They seem to forget about the pressure normal commuters are under. The
>> bombs are in the passenger section of the trains , not in the drivers
>> cab. They're probably in the safest part of the train.
>>
>>
>>> The TU leaders need to seriously rethink their approach before this
>>> backfires on them.
>>
>> Its the RMT. Who expected anything different?
>>
>>
> Apparently the unrest isn't about their own safety, but because of the
> lack of communication from those on high during recent incidents.


Which means they can't drive trains?

steve wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:02:45 +0000, Brimstone wrote:
>
>> Boltar wrote:
>>> Paul Corfield wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This "enormous pressure" would therefore not resemble the "enormous
>>>> pressure" that the TU head offices are placing on their LU
>>>> officials to get staff to not drive trains due to "security
>>>> concerns".
>>>
>>> They seem to forget about the pressure normal commuters are under.
>>> The bombs are in the passenger section of the trains , not in the
>>> drivers cab. They're probably in the safest part of the train.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The TU leaders need to seriously rethink their approach before this
>>>> backfires on them.
>>>
>>> Its the RMT. Who expected anything different?
>>>
>>>
>> Apparently the unrest isn't about their own safety, but because of
>> the lack of communication from those on high during recent incidents.
>
> Which means they can't drive trains?


Theyt can drive trains, but want to know what's going on and most
importantly what to do when someone detonates a bomb or somesuch. Lack of
information/communication leads to passengers being stuck on trains for
extended periods for no good reason.

"Brimstone"  wrote in message 
news:dbqm5d$meu$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...


>>> Apparently the unrest isn't about their own safety, but because of
>>> the lack of communication from those on high during recent incidents.
>>
>> Which means they can't drive trains?
>
> Theyt can drive trains, but want to know what's going on and most
> importantly what to do when someone detonates a bomb or somesuch. Lack of
> information/communication leads to passengers being stuck on trains for
> extended periods for no good reason.


Considering it seemed that, in all the confusion of the events, no-one knew 
what exactly had happened and what was going on it seems unfair to complain 
that the management didn't let the drivers know what was generally unknown.

Dave.

Dave Liney wrote:

> "Brimstone"  wrote in message
> news:dbqm5d$meu$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
>>>> Apparently the unrest isn't about their own safety, but because of
>>>> the lack of communication from those on high during recent
>>>> incidents.
>>>
>>> Which means they can't drive trains?
>>
>> Theyt can drive trains, but want to know what's going on and most
>> importantly what to do when someone detonates a bomb or somesuch.
>> Lack of information/communication leads to passengers being stuck on
>> trains for extended periods for no good reason.
>
> Considering it seemed that, in all the confusion of the events,
> no-one knew what exactly had happened and what was going on it seems
> unfair to complain that the management didn't let the drivers know
> what was generally unknown.
>


No one expects to be told what is unknown. However, when those responsible
refuse to answer the radio or phone then those at the sharp end are entitled
to ask questions I would suggest.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:20:06 +0100 someone who may be Graeme Wall
 wrote this:-


>BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut because drivers
>are refusing to work:


In some ways understandable. 

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1312&id=1670842005 reports,
"Such was the confusion that as the driver of the train tried to get
to safety by fleeing down an underground tunnel, he was pursued by
armed police who held a gun to his head before realising their
mistake.", in respect of events yesterday. I heard much the same
thing on the radio yesterday, but it seems to have been ignored by
other mass media outlets.

Assuming the reports are true it will be interesting to see what the
unions have to say about this. http://www.aslef.org.uk/ has nothing
to say as far as I can see, but "the opposition" has this to say:

==================================================================

"Their concerns will have been fuelled by the revelation that an
innocent Tube driver today found himself with a police gun at his
head during the incident in Stockwell station in which a suspect was
shot dead.

"No apology could ever be enough ever take away the trauma that that
driver has suffered and there should be a full inquiry into the
handling of the incident," Bob Crow said. 

http://www.rmt.org.uk/C2B/PressOffice/display.asp?ID=1539&Type=2

==================================================================





-- 
 David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
 I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
 prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Graeme Wall wrote:

> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut because drivers
> are refusing to work:
>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>

Transport Miscellany at
<http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>


Related to this, has it be determined how the driver of the Piccadilly
line train fared on July 7? I've heard no mention over the past three
weeks.

James

jshugg@westpac.com.au wrote:

> Graeme Wall wrote:
>> BBC reports that the Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are shut
>> because drivers are refusing to work:
>>
>> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4704031.stm>
>>
> Transport Miscellany at
> <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html>


I can't see the relevance of that site to tube drivers refusing to work.


> Related to this, has it be determined how the driver of the
> Piccadilly line train fared on July 7? I've heard no mention over
> the past three weeks.


He survived without physical injuries, and by all accounts did a fine
job in leading the evacuation to Russell Square station of passengers
from the front car (forward of the bomb).
-- 
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)