Hi All

Car: Fiat Coupe 20v turbo with 60k on the clock.

When I start the car from warm it's not firing properly and the engine 
warning light comes on.

After a bit of debug involving swaping plugs and coil packs I've 
narrowed it down to one cylinder, number 4 as you look at the engine 
from the front.

I've checked the spark and it looks fine, well as good as the other ones 
anyway.

Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the 
affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector 
is sticking when warm ?

Or could the ECU not be working correctly ? Having said that I can't see 
how heat would be causing problem with it...

Is there a senario the the ECU would stop triggered the injector ?

TIA

Cheers

Stoopid...

"St00p!d"  wrote in message 
news:42dc3128$1@news.greennet.net...

> Hi All
>
> Car: Fiat Coupe 20v turbo with 60k on the clock.
>
> When I start the car from warm it's not firing properly and the engine 
> warning light comes on.
>
> After a bit of debug involving swaping plugs and coil packs I've narrowed 
> it down to one cylinder, number 4 as you look at the engine from the 
> front.
>
> I've checked the spark and it looks fine, well as good as the other ones 
> anyway.
>
> Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the 
> affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector is 
> sticking when warm ?
>
> Or could the ECU not be working correctly ? Having said that I can't see 
> how heat would be causing problem with it...
>
> Is there a senario the the ECU would stop triggered the injector ?
>

Possibility of bent or sticking valve. Do a compression test? I had this on 
another engine type . It ran perfectly when cold but only misfired when hot.

JB

"Andy Hewitt"  wrote in message 
news:1gzx0ed.ugaaih1tunandN%hairy.biker@spamcop.net...

> St00p!d  wrote:
>
> <Snipped Text>
>
>> Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the
>> affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector
>> is sticking when warm ?
>
> It's pretty likely to be the injector, we fitted loads on Fiats - the
> Brava HGT was a common one (which has the same engine).
>
> If the light is on then a quick check on a code reader should confirm
> the fault.
>

Insider knowledge wins the day again. Bloody sight easier to do an injector 
than an inlet valve too I'd reckon :>)

JB

Andy Hewitt  wrote:


> St00p!d  wrote:
> 
> <Snipped Text>
> 
> > Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the 
> > affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector
> > is sticking when warm ?
> 
> It's pretty likely to be the injector, we fitted loads on Fiats - the
> Brava HGT was a common one (which has the same engine).

      ^

*cough*

-- 
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Passat 1.8 Turbo SE -  COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

JB wrote:

>>>Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the
>>>affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector
>>>is sticking when warm ?
>>
>>It's pretty likely to be the injector, we fitted loads on Fiats - the
>>Brava HGT was a common one (which has the same engine).
>>
>>If the light is on then a quick check on a code reader should confirm
>>the fault.
>>
> 
> Insider knowledge wins the day again. Bloody sight easier to do an injector 
> than an inlet valve too I'd reckon :>)


Thanks for the advice.

I did a compression reading on it 6 months ago and everything looked 
fine, the problem has started recently though.

Can the ecu tell the differnce between a failing coilpack/plug and an 
injector fault ?

I'm just thinking that having the code read at a dealer will cost 40 
quid min when I can fit an injector myself no probs...

Anyone know how much an injector will cost ?

Cheers

Stoopid...

"St00p!d"  wrote in message
news:42dc490b$1@news.greennet.net...

> JB wrote:
> >>>Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the
> >>>affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector
> >>>is sticking when warm ?
> >>
> >>It's pretty likely to be the injector, we fitted loads on Fiats - the
> >>Brava HGT was a common one (which has the same engine).
> >>
> >>If the light is on then a quick check on a code reader should confirm
> >>the fault.
> >>
> >
> > Insider knowledge wins the day again. Bloody sight easier to do an
injector
> > than an inlet valve too I'd reckon :>)
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> I did a compression reading on it 6 months ago and everything looked
> fine, the problem has started recently though.
>
> Can the ecu tell the differnce between a failing coilpack/plug and an
> injector fault ?
>
> I'm just thinking that having the code read at a dealer will cost 40
> quid min when I can fit an injector myself no probs...


Try swapping the injector on number 4 with one of the others. That should
tell you whether it's the injector or some other fault.
Mike.

"St00p!d"  wrote in message
news:42dc490b$1@news.greennet.net...

> JB wrote:
> >>>Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the
> >>>affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector
> >>>is sticking when warm ?
> >>
> >>It's pretty likely to be the injector, we fitted loads on Fiats - the
> >>Brava HGT was a common one (which has the same engine).
> >>
> >>If the light is on then a quick check on a code reader should confirm
> >>the fault.
> >>
> >
> > Insider knowledge wins the day again. Bloody sight easier to do an
injector
> > than an inlet valve too I'd reckon :>)
>
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> I did a compression reading on it 6 months ago and everything looked
> fine, the problem has started recently though.
>
> Can the ecu tell the differnce between a failing coilpack/plug and an
> injector fault ?
>
> I'm just thinking that having the code read at a dealer will cost 40
> quid min when I can fit an injector myself no probs...
>
> Anyone know how much an injector will cost ?
>


Move injector 4 to another location and see if the dead cylinder also
moves!!!!

Do the same with the coil pack.

This will narrow it down to HT / Mechanical / fuellign problem.

Tim..

"Tim.."  wrote in message
news:dbie76$820$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...

>
> "St00p!d"  wrote in message
> news:42dc490b$1@news.greennet.net...
> > I'm just thinking that having the code read at a dealer will cost 40
> > quid min when I can fit an injector myself no probs...
> >
> > Anyone know how much an injector will cost ?
> >
>
> Move injector 4 to another location and see if the dead cylinder also
> moves!!!!


Quite an echo we have in here.
Mike.

Mike G wrote:

> Quite an echo we have in here.
> Mike.
> 


I'm not complaining two answers is better than none :)

Andy Hewitt wrote:
 >>I'm just thinking that having the code read at a dealer will cost 40
 >>quid min when I can fit an injector myself no probs...
 >
 >
 > It could be cheaper than guessing!

Fair point. Though I'll try swapping the injectors first as it might 
save me a trip to Fiat to get the code read.

 >>Anyone know how much an injector will cost ?
 >
 > About 90 each.

Bummer, more than I thought, better make sure I diagnose it right then.


Thanks guys

Stoopid...

St00p!d wrote:

> Mike G wrote:
>> Quite an echo we have in here.
>> Mike.
>>
>
> I'm not complaining two answers is better than none :)
>
> Andy Hewitt wrote:
>>> I'm just thinking that having the code read at a dealer will cost
>>> 40 quid min when I can fit an injector myself no probs...
>>
>>
>> It could be cheaper than guessing!
>
> Fair point. Though I'll try swapping the injectors first as it might
> save me a trip to Fiat to get the code read.
>
>>> Anyone know how much an injector will cost ?
>>
>> About 90 each.
>
> Bummer, more than I thought, better make sure I diagnose it right
> then.


I'd be tempted to get one from a scrappie (and maybe soak it in injector 
cleaner before use) - odds are that a crashed car wouldn't  have had duff 
injectors!

PC Paul wrote:

> I'd be tempted to get one from a scrappie (and maybe soak it in injector 
> cleaner before use) - odds are that a crashed car wouldn't  have had duff 
> injectors!



Yeah I'll be trying that first, there's not many 20vt coupes (ie none) 
in the scrapys up here in sunny Scotland though :-(

Update on the fault finding:

I now measured the resistance across all the injectors when the symptoms 
are happening and guess what...all read the same 18ohms, which ties in 
with the Fiat workshop manual figure, except the one on the problem 
cylinder.

Now where's that yellow pages...

Cheers

Stoopid...

St00p!d wrote:
  > Update on the fault finding:
 >
 > I now measured the resistance across all the injectors when the symptoms
 > are happening and guess what...all read the same 18ohms, which ties in
 > with the Fiat workshop manual figure, except the one on the problem
 > cylinder.

Andy Hewitt wrote:

> Yes, although you may still need to go there to get the code cleared,
> and the light extinguished.


Although the fault with logged in the permanent memory it'll flush out 
after a 100 or so successfully starts.

The light goes out straight away when the problems clears which is good :)

Cheers

Stoopid...

St00p!d  wrote:


> St00p!d wrote:
>   > Update on the fault finding:
>  >
>  > I now measured the resistance across all the injectors when the symptoms
>  > are happening and guess what...all read the same 18ohms, which ties in
>  > with the Fiat workshop manual figure, except the one on the problem
>  > cylinder.
> 
> Andy Hewitt wrote:
> > Yes, although you may still need to go there to get the code cleared,
> > and the light extinguished.
> 
> Although the fault with logged in the permanent memory it'll flush out
> after a 100 or so successfully starts.


Yup, at an average of 2 a day it'll be gone in a couple of months :-)


> The light goes out straight away when the problems clears which is good :)


It does, but can leave the system somewhat unstable on a Fiat when fault
codes exist.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

SteveH  wrote:


> Andy Hewitt  wrote:
> 
> > St00p!d  wrote:
> > 
> > <Snipped Text>
> > 
> > > Uplugging the injector or wiggling the lead(and whole loom) on the
> > > affected cylinder makes no difference, it it possible that the injector
> > > is sticking when warm ?
> > 
> > It's pretty likely to be the injector, we fitted loads on Fiats - the
> > Brava HGT was a common one (which has the same engine).
>       ^
> 
> *cough*


Fuckit.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

St00p!d  wrote:

<Snipped Text>


> > Insider knowledge wins the day again. Bloody sight easier to do an injector
> > than an inlet valve too I'd reckon :>)
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> I did a compression reading on it 6 months ago and everything looked 
> fine, the problem has started recently though.
> 
> Can the ecu tell the differnce between a failing coilpack/plug and an
> injector fault ?


Usually, yes.


> I'm just thinking that having the code read at a dealer will cost 40
> quid min when I can fit an injector myself no probs...


It could be cheaper than guessing!


> Anyone know how much an injector will cost ?


About 90 each.

-- 
Andy Hewitt **  FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Civic: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/thehewitts2/index.htm
(updated Feb 21 2005)

Andy Hewitt wrote:

> St00p!d  wrote:
> 
> 
>>St00p!d wrote:
>>  > Update on the fault finding:
>> >
>> > I now measured the resistance across all the injectors when the symptoms
>> > are happening and guess what...all read the same 18ohms, which ties in
>> > with the Fiat workshop manual figure, except the one on the problem
>> > cylinder.


Hi All

Thought I'd update you on my progress:

Managed to get a set of five injector 2nd from a low miler and had them 
cleaned which improved the flow rate a bit :-)

Fitting them has cured the problem which is good too.

There's a small but though, although the car runs fine now it seems to 
be slightly slower at catching when starting, I'll see if it settles down...

Cheers

Stoopid