Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
back, tried to start it again. It started.

Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.

Any ideas as to what's wrong?

> Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
> drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
> again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
> back, tried to start it again. It started.
>
> Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
> It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.
>
> Any ideas as to what's wrong?


The engine's not running.  That strikes me as wrong.

Peter

The message <42cea258$1_2@x-privat.org>
from Chris Bacon  contains these words:


> Any ideas as to what's wrong?


Cam belt?

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King wrote:

> The message <42cea258$1_2@x-privat.org>
> from Chris Bacon  contains these words:
> 
>>Any ideas as to what's wrong?
> 
> Cam belt?


I hope not. It's the current Mrs. Bacon's car. It's highly
inconvenient that the thing isn't working. It will all be
my fault. It did cut out before, so I'm hoping it's something
else. However, I will go and look at the car. Wish I'd bought
one of those Lidl tow bars, now.

Could it be something else? I'm not at all familiar with
diesel engines.

"Chris Bacon"  wrote in message 
news:42cea258$1_2@x-privat.org...

> Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
> drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
> again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
> back, tried to start it again. It started.
>
> Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
> It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.
>
> Any ideas as to what's wrong?


Could be any number off things.

I'm guessing it's an older non-fly by wire engine (astra-f) going by the 
fact it's a TDi?

Possibilites are listed below, including the symptoms/possibilty

Faulty Fuel stop solenoid - Will normally cause random cutting out once the 
engine warms, but normally restart after ignition switched off and on again.
Immobilizer Fault - Should normally only prevent the engine from starting. 
Once started and the immobilizer deactivated, it shouldn't reactivate until 
the ignition has been turned off for a few seconds. But a faulty module 
could cause the problem.
Bad connection - Unlikely due to the conditions it cuts out in. Usually 
causes erratic behaviour.
Fuel Starvation - Would normally show as lack off power, surging, 
hesitation, and would tend to cause car to hesitate to a stop.
Timing Belt - Unlikely due to the fact it;s already cut out once and 
restarted.

I'm sure there are other possibilites, but these are the main ones I'd look 
at first.


If the car is a newer one with the fly by wire pump (i'm sure these were all 
badged DTI), then there are many other possiblities.

The message <42ceaa81$1_3@x-privat.org>
from Chris Bacon  contains these words:


> >>Any ideas as to what's wrong?
> > 
> > Cam belt?

> I hope not. It's the current Mrs. Bacon's car. It's highly
> inconvenient that the thing isn't working. It will all be
> my fault.


Unscrew the oil filler and see if you can see the cam turning when you
crank it.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King wrote:

> The message from Chris Bacon contains these words:
>>>>Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>>>
>>>Cam belt?
> 
>>I hope not. It's the current Mrs. Bacon's car. It's highly
>>inconvenient that the thing isn't working. It will all be
>>my fault.
> 
> Unscrew the oil filler and see if you can see the cam turning when you
> crank it.


I've just worked that one out, thanks - it do go round, thank goodness.
Can't see any fuses blown, but then again there're probably some I've
missed. They come in little boxes, these days.

Moray Cuthill wrote:

> "Chris Bacon" wrote in message...
> 
>>Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
>>drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
>>again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
>>back, tried to start it again. It started.
>>
>>Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
>>It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.
>>
>>Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>  
> Could be any number off things.
> 
> I'm guessing it's an older non-fly by wire engine (astra-f) going by the 
> fact it's a TDi?


I dunno. It's a "Y" - reg, if that helps.



> Possibilites are listed below, including the symptoms/possibilty
> 
> Faulty Fuel stop solenoid - Will normally cause random cutting out once the 
> engine warms, but normally restart after ignition switched off and on again.


Um. Just now, I tried starting it (see reply to Mr. King), and it had
been standing since lunchtime. It did not go. In my old petrol Ford,
there was a manual fuel shut-off. Is there similar in the Astra diesel?
I have no handbook.



> Immobilizer Fault - Should normally only prevent the engine from starting. 
> Once started and the immobilizer deactivated, it shouldn't reactivate until 
> the ignition has been turned off for a few seconds. But a faulty module 
> could cause the problem.


Um. Any way to diagnose this?



> Bad connection - Unlikely due to the conditions it cuts out in. Usually 
> causes erratic behaviour.


I have wiggled all sorts of likely and unlikely things. No joy
(ooh-err).



> Fuel Starvation - Would normally show as lack off power, surging, 
> hesitation, and would tend to cause car to hesitate to a stop.
> Timing Belt - Unlikely due to the fact it;s already cut out once and 
> restarted.


It normally runs well, at least to my en-deisel-educated ear, and has
lots of "go".



> I'm sure there are other possibilites, but these are the main ones I'd look 
> at first.
> 
> 
> If the car is a newer one with the fly by wire pump (i'm sure these were all 
> badged DTI), then there are many other possiblities.


Dunno. How do I tell which it is?


Thanks all for youtr kind help so far.

"a" <a@b.c> wrote in message news:42ced0f7_3@x-privat.org...

> Moray Cuthill wrote:
>> "Chris Bacon" wrote in message...
>>
>>>Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
>>>drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
>>>again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
>>>back, tried to start it again. It started.
>>>
>>>Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
>>>It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.
>>>
>>>Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>>  Could be any number off things.
>>
>> I'm guessing it's an older non-fly by wire engine (astra-f) going by the 
>> fact it's a TDi?
>
> I dunno. It's a "Y" - reg, if that helps.


It could be one off the last non electronic ones.
If you look at the engine, is there an ECU mounted on the top off the 
engine?




>> Possibilites are listed below, including the symptoms/possibilty
>>
>> Faulty Fuel stop solenoid - Will normally cause random cutting out once 
>> the engine warms, but normally restart after ignition switched off and on 
>> again.
>
> Um. Just now, I tried starting it (see reply to Mr. King), and it had
> been standing since lunchtime. It did not go. In my old petrol Ford,
> there was a manual fuel shut-off. Is there similar in the Astra diesel?
> I have no handbook.


The fuel stop solenoid is mounted on the pump itself. It will be covered by 
the immobilser module, which is built into a relatively thick steel housing.
The fuel cut out (inertia) switch, was never fitted to the diesel astras, as 
they rely on the mechanical lift pump built into the injection pump.


>> Immobilizer Fault - Should normally only prevent the engine from 
>> starting. Once started and the immobilizer deactivated, it shouldn't 
>> reactivate until the ignition has been turned off for a few seconds. But 
>> a faulty module could cause the problem.
>
> Um. Any way to diagnose this?


Diagnostic kit (aka Tech 2 or such like).



>> Bad connection - Unlikely due to the conditions it cuts out in. Usually 
>> causes erratic behaviour.
>
> I have wiggled all sorts of likely and unlikely things. No joy
> (ooh-err).


It could be something like a chaffed and corroded wire somewhere, which can 
take a long time to find.

Guy King wrote:

> The message <42cea258$1_2@x-privat.org>
> from Chris Bacon  contains these words:
>
>> Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>
> Cam belt?


No.

-- 
ThePunisher
Latitude:   54.67N
Longitude:  5.96W

The message <OeOze.7125$Dq.6927@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>
from "ThePunisher"  contains these words:


> >> Any ideas as to what's wrong?
> >
> > Cam belt?

> No.


As it happens, no. But there's no particular reason why the first
stoppage should be related to the second - the second could happily have
been the cam belt.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King wrote:

> The message <OeOze.7125$Dq.6927@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>
> from "ThePunisher"  contains these words:
>
>>>> Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>>>
>>> Cam belt?
>
>> No.
>
> As it happens, no. But there's no particular reason why the first
> stoppage should be related to the second - the second could happily
> have been the cam belt.


Of course, but more than likely they're related.

-- 
ThePunisher
Latitude:   54.67N
Longitude:  5.96W

Guy King wrote:

> The message <OeOze.7125$Dq.6927@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>
> from "ThePunisher"  contains these words:
>
>>>> Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>>>
>>> Cam belt?
>
>> No.
>
> As it happens, no. But there's no particular reason why the first
> stoppage should be related to the second - the second could happily
> have been the cam belt.


There speaks an open-minded and experienced man! :o)

Si

Moray Cuthill wrote:

> "Chris Bacon" wrote...
>>Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
>>drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
>>again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
>>back, tried to start it again. It started.
>>
>>Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
>>It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.
>>
>>Any ideas as to what's wrong?
> 
> If the car is a newer one with the fly by wire pump (i'm sure these
> were all badged DTI), then there are many other possiblities.


Argh! OW! Due to the newness of this vehicle and my old-fashioned
knowledge, it went off to the garage on a recovery scheme. The
garage have now called me. Ow!

They have run a diagnosis on their machine (1 hr., cost 99.90!).
This told them that the car "needs a new injector pump control
unit and a set of glow plugs". The cost for this is 1065.82!!!!
It will take an hour to fit the C.U., and 1 1/2 hrs for the glow-
plugs. The C.U. is priced at 536, the glow plugs at 233, with
the rest being labour. Apparently a second-hand C.U. can't be
fitted as "it has to be programmed to the vehicle".

Is this all true? Is this price reasonable? Can't I cheapen the
price at all?? I'm feeling a bit faint, very thirsty, and feel
the urge to run around biting things.

Any advice on how to proceed will be very, very welcome!

Chris Bacon wrote:

> They have run a diagnosis on their machine (1 hr., cost 99.90!).
> This told them that the car "needs a new injector pump control
> unit and a set of glow plugs". The cost for this is 1065.82!!!!
> It will take an hour to fit the C.U., and 1 1/2 hrs for the glow-
> plugs. The C.U. is priced at 536, the glow plugs at 233, with
> the rest being labour. Apparently a second-hand C.U. can't be
> fitted as "it has to be programmed to the vehicle".


Humph. A Google indicates that there is a vague possibility that
there's a bad connection in the middle of the C.U. circuit board.

A local motor factor quotes 425 for the C.U., and says it's "bolt
on, bolt off", and doesn't need programming. Not sure what to make
of that. At first sight, it looks OK. What about the "programming"?

Do I really *need* new glow plugs? It was starting fine before this.

Perhaps these are available second-hand?



> Any advice on how to proceed will be very, very welcome!


As would simple moral support, ear defenders for home use, etc.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:57:38 +0100, Chris Bacon   
wrote:


> Chris Bacon wrote:
>> They have run a diagnosis on their machine (1 hr., cost 99.90!).
>> This told them that the car "needs a new injector pump control
>> unit and a set of glow plugs". The cost for this is 1065.82!!!!
>> It will take an hour to fit the C.U., and 1 1/2 hrs for the glow-
>> plugs. The C.U. is priced at 536, the glow plugs at 233, with
>> the rest being labour. Apparently a second-hand C.U. can't be
>> fitted as "it has to be programmed to the vehicle".
>
> Humph. A Google indicates that there is a vague possibility that
> there's a bad connection in the middle of the C.U. circuit board.
>
> A local motor factor quotes 425 for the C.U., and says it's "bolt
> on, bolt off", and doesn't need programming. Not sure what to make
> of that. At first sight, it looks OK. What about the "programming"?
>


One of these?
http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/Product.aspx?product=2983



> Do I really *need* new glow plugs? It was starting fine before this.
>


Probably not then, they're fairly easy to fit.



> Perhaps these are available second-hand?
>
>
>> Any advice on how to proceed will be very, very welcome!
>
> As would simple moral support, ear defenders for home use, etc.




-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:57:38 +0100, Chris Bacon   
wrote:


> Chris Bacon wrote:
>> They have run a diagnosis on their machine (1 hr., cost 99.90!).
>> This told them that the car "needs a new injector pump control
>> unit and a set of glow plugs". The cost for this is 1065.82!!!!
>> It will take an hour to fit the C.U., and 1 1/2 hrs for the glow-
>> plugs. The C.U. is priced at 536, the glow plugs at 233, with
>> the rest being labour. Apparently a second-hand C.U. can't be
>> fitted as "it has to be programmed to the vehicle".
>
> Humph. A Google indicates that there is a vague possibility that
> there's a bad connection in the middle of the C.U. circuit board.
>
> A local motor factor quotes 425 for the C.U., and says it's "bolt
> on, bolt off", and doesn't need programming. Not sure what to make
> of that. At first sight, it looks OK. What about the "programming"?


You could try BBA-remans forum & ask.


>
> Do I really *need* new glow plugs? It was starting fine before this.
>
> Perhaps these are available second-hand?
>
>
>> Any advice on how to proceed will be very, very welcome!
>
> As would simple moral support, ear defenders for home use, etc.




-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Duncanwood wrote:

> Chris Bacon wrote:
>> A local motor factor quotes 425 for the C.U., and says it's "bolt
>> on, bolt off", and doesn't need programming. Not sure what to make
>> of that. At first sight, it looks OK. What about the "programming"?
> 
> One of these?
> http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/Product.aspx?product=2983


How *do* you do it???? It's quite possible, shall have to try to
find the "O.E. Reference" which that site says is 0 281 001 630.
Perhaps it's written on the component?



>> Do I really *need* new glow plugs? It was starting fine before this.
> 
> Probably not then, they're fairly easy to fit.


That's a help, then. Diagnostics, ooh-er. Fitting I may be able
to do.

Chris Bacon wrote:

> Moray Cuthill wrote:
>> "Chris Bacon" wrote...
>>> Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
>>> drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
>>> again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
>>> back, tried to start it again. It started.
>>>
>>> Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
>>> It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.
>>>
>>> Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>>
>> If the car is a newer one with the fly by wire pump (i'm sure these
>> were all badged DTI), then there are many other possiblities.
>
> Argh! OW! Due to the newness of this vehicle and my old-fashioned
> knowledge, it went off to the garage on a recovery scheme. The
> garage have now called me. Ow!
>
> They have run a diagnosis on their machine (1 hr., cost 99.90!).
> This told them that the car "needs a new injector pump control
> unit and a set of glow plugs". The cost for this is 1065.82!!!!
> It will take an hour to fit the C.U., and 1 1/2 hrs for the glow-
> plugs. The C.U. is priced at 536, the glow plugs at 233, with
> the rest being labour. Apparently a second-hand C.U. can't be
> fitted as "it has to be programmed to the vehicle".
>
> Is this all true? Is this price reasonable? Can't I cheapen the
> price at all?? I'm feeling a bit faint, very thirsty, and feel
> the urge to run around biting things.
>
> Any advice on how to proceed will be very, very welcome!


You're being ripped off, go somewere else.

-- 
ThePunisher
Latitude:   54.67N
Longitude:  5.96W

"Chris Bacon"  wrote in message 
news:42d2428e$1_3@x-privat.org...

> Moray Cuthill wrote:
>> "Chris Bacon" wrote...
>>>Last week it stopped as I was turning off the road into the
>>>drive. I thought I'd just stalled. However, it wouldn't start
>>>again. I pushed it into a side road, and after I'd got my breath
>>>back, tried to start it again. It started.
>>>
>>>Today, it just cut out while driving along - no warning signs.
>>>It won't re-start. It was running fine before it stopped.
>>>
>>>Any ideas as to what's wrong?
>>
>> If the car is a newer one with the fly by wire pump (i'm sure these
>> were all badged DTI), then there are many other possiblities.
>
> Argh! OW! Due to the newness of this vehicle and my old-fashioned
> knowledge, it went off to the garage on a recovery scheme. The
> garage have now called me. Ow!
>
> They have run a diagnosis on their machine (1 hr., cost 99.90!).
> This told them that the car "needs a new injector pump control
> unit and a set of glow plugs". The cost for this is 1065.82!!!!
> It will take an hour to fit the C.U., and 1 1/2 hrs for the glow-
> plugs. The C.U. is priced at 536, the glow plugs at 233, with
> the rest being labour. Apparently a second-hand C.U. can't be
> fitted as "it has to be programmed to the vehicle".


Guess it went to the dealer then.
Labour cost for the diagnostics is the higher end off normal.

If this is the old style engine, the Control Unit is majorly overpriced.
If it's the new style engine, the control unit is actually very competively 
priced.
The glow plugs are majorly overpriced. Genuine OE ones retail at under 20 
each.

Whatever engine, the Control Unit will have to be programmed.
The labour times sound reasonable, so I wouldn't complain too much about 
them.
But I would be questioning the part costs.


>
> Is this all true? Is this price reasonable? Can't I cheapen the
> price at all?? I'm feeling a bit faint, very thirsty, and feel
> the urge to run around biting things.
>
> Any advice on how to proceed will be very, very welcome!


You've still not said if it's a newer (fly-by-wire) engine or not. If it is, 
the ECU is mounted right on top off the engine, and would be one off the 
first things you notice when you lift the bonner. It's an alloy case about 
4" x 4", with two big multiplugs on the top.

Personally, if it's the older engine I'd be questioning the parts costs, as 
they are majorly overpriced.
If it's the newer engine, let them change the Control Unit, and do the glow 
plugs yourself.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:49:52 +0100, Chris Bacon   
wrote:


> Duncanwood wrote:
>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>> A local motor factor quotes 425 for the C.U., and says it's "bolt
>>> on, bolt off", and doesn't need programming. Not sure what to make
>>> of that. At first sight, it looks OK. What about the "programming"?
>>  One of these?
>> http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/Product.aspx?product=2983
>
> How *do* you do it???? It's quite possible, shall have to try to
> find the "O.E. Reference" which that site says is 0 281 001 630.
> Perhaps it's written on the component?
>


They'll program it for you, or if you send them the old one they'll tell  
you if it's actually faulty.


>
>>> Do I really *need* new glow plugs? It was starting fine before this.
>>  Probably not then, they're fairly easy to fit.
>
> That's a help, then. Diagnostics, ooh-er. Fitting I may be able
> to do.




-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Duncanwood wrote:

> Chris Bacon wrote:
>> Duncanwood wrote:
>>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>>> A local motor factor quotes 425 for the C.U., and says it's "bolt
>>>> on, bolt off", and doesn't need programming. Not sure what to make
>>>> of that. At first sight, it looks OK. What about the "programming"?
>>>
>>>  One of these?
>>> http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/Product.aspx?product=2983
>>
>> How *do* you do it???? It's quite possible, shall have to try to
>> find the "O.E. Reference" which that site says is 0 281 001 630.
>> Perhaps it's written on the component?
> 
> They'll program it for you, or if you send them the old one they'll 
> tell  you if it's actually faulty.


Hm, interesting. It's got to be OTR by Friday, though, so I've
bought a towing bar, and am going to have a look at it at home
(obvious loose connections, somewhere I've seen a reference to
bad soldering). If that doesn't help, it'll be going to a diesel
specialist who charges *much* less than the dealer who's got it
at the moment. I wonder whether I could keep the old component,
if so I could get them to check it, and flog it to someone if
it's OK!

(Towing bar = Clarke TB2S from Machine Mart).

Moray Cuthill wrote:

> Guess it went to the dealer then.


OK, to convey and record what might be valuable to someone (I've just
saved about 600! THIS IS WORTHWHILE IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE CARS!):

I had no idea what this engine was, it was at the dealers so I couldn't
look at it & reply to questions. Apologies. Y-reg Astra 1.7 diesel.

I bought a Clarke TB2S towing bar, which is a Good Thing[1] and
retrieved the car from the dealer, along with their diagnostic
sheet. I will try to send in the information thereon (spill valve?),
but haven't got it to hand now. Basically, they said "New diesel
pump control unit (not pump!), and wanted 770 to fix.

These CUs seem to cost 450-550 depending where you get them (new
or recon). Fitting is simple, although there may be "programming"
to do for a new one, I don't know. The cheapest price I got to fix
this was 580.

A careful "Google" showed there might be a fix. *Much* kudos to
"Tony Sefton" for the original information.

I still don't know what "fly by wire" means.

This car has the control unit bolted to the back of the engine (pump?).

To get at it, undo the clip holding the thick black pipe onto the
air filter (I think) and the clip at the other end. Take off some
sort of plug that's wired in to the middle. You have to pull one
end, rather like opening a matchbox, and the plug comes out. Remove
the section of thick black air-pipe. You can then get at the diesel
pump control unit fairly easily.

Down the back of the engine (back left as you look at it) you will
see or feel a square aluminium thing *about* 5" square and 1 1/4"
thick, with vertical fins on like a motorbike engine. It has a wiring
plug which needs to be taken off. There are 4 10mm set bolts, one at
each corner, to remove. These are not tight, an open-end spanner
is OK.

When you've got the thing off, you will be surprised it's worth
that amount. It has "ISUZU" written on it. Turn it over, and you
will see a flat aluminium cover plate, probably with a round sticker
in the middle, held into the rest of the thing with black rubbery
sealer all round. Run the point of a sharp knife into the sealant
around the perimeter. Then *carefully* but forcefully lever off the
plate with a screwdriver. Under the plate is a circuit board. Careful
not to damage any components! You're a step away from the fix. *Very
near* the middle of the circuit board you will see a square post
sticking up. It may have a bad solder connection. Look at the other
connections on the board - see how shiny and perfect they are? *This*
one is probably dull grey, and you can see that the solder does not
connect the circuit board to the post at all well.

Scrape off the old solder from the square post *very carefully* and
brighten the "O" that the post passes through on the circuit board.
When it's clean, get a soldering iron (you can buy a new 30W one for
a few pounds), let it heat well, and complete the joint.

Put the control unit cover plate back on with some sealer (*not*
ordinary silicone IMO as it gives off acetic acid during the curing
process, I used neutral cure frame sealent for PVC windows). Re-fit
the control unit, plug, black air pipe, air pipe electric plug.

Then, you're off! *That's all there is to it*.

I spoke to a diesel specialist about this. He was very surprised!
This may be a common fault. He'd done 6 in the last month, vehicles
sent to him by "the trade". He was the one who quoted me the lowest
price (doesn't normally deal with "the public"), so I passed this
on to him. Personally, I think Vauxhall should do something about
it. This is a minor fault in an expensive component.

The procedure would take (next time) an hour or less.



[1] This towing bar has a spring in the middle to help absorb
braking shock. All that the towed driver needs to do is make sure
they drive exactly behind the towing car, not to one side or the
other. The towing car does all the braking (some care still needed
by towing driver, I shouldn't like a "jacknife" (SP?). The hooks
on this towing bar can be closed up a bit with a lump hammer so
that they go on old Cavalier towing eyes.

The message 
from Chris Bacon  contains these words:


> I still don't know what "fly by wire" means.


It means there's not physical connection (like a throttle cable) between
the pedal and the pump/injection system. Instead, a position sensor on
the pedal tells the computer how much ooomph you want and the computer
tell the engine.

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

"Chris Bacon"  wrote in message 
news:42d583ec_1@x-privat.org...

> Moray Cuthill wrote:
>> Guess it went to the dealer then.
>
> OK, to convey and record what might be valuable to someone (I've just
> saved about 600! THIS IS WORTHWHILE IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE CARS!):
>
> When you've got the thing off, you will be surprised it's worth
> that amount. It has "ISUZU" written on it. Turn it over, and you
> will see a flat aluminium cover plate, probably with a round sticker
> in the middle, held into the rest of the thing with black rubbery
> sealer all round. Run the point of a sharp knife into the sealant
> around the perimeter. Then *carefully* but forcefully lever off the
> plate with a screwdriver. Under the plate is a circuit board. Careful
> not to damage any components! You're a step away from the fix. *Very
> near* the middle of the circuit board you will see a square post
> sticking up. It may have a bad solder connection. Look at the other
> connections on the board - see how shiny and perfect they are? *This*
> one is probably dull grey, and you can see that the solder does not
> connect the circuit board to the post at all well.
>
> Scrape off the old solder from the square post *very carefully* and
> brighten the "O" that the post passes through on the circuit board.
> When it's clean, get a soldering iron (you can buy a new 30W one for
> a few pounds), let it heat well, and complete the joint.
>


Interesting, thanks.

FWIW, speaking as an ex electronics engineer who has done far more soldering 
than is good for me, this type of dull grey joint is called a dry joint, and 
can be completely disconnected electrically even though it's still seemingly 
touching metal-to-metal.

You don't need to scrape off the old solder - you run the risk of damaging 
it if you try.

Get your soldering iron *and* some flux-cored solder intended for 
electronics. Plumbing solder and flux is not so good.. the flux particularly 
is much stronger and can damage the board.

Flux is a caustic compound which, when heated, will burn out any impurities 
in the solder, or from the surfaces to be joined. It will bubble out of the 
solder as you make the joint, leaving it bright and shiny.

Clean the tip of the soldering iron (scrape it on a wet sponge) then apply a 
tiny dab of solder to 'wet' the tip. This helps a lot with the heat transfer 
to the components.

To remake the dry joint you need the iron to be in contact with both 
components - the circuit board track and the post in this case. If they 
aren't both heated then solder will only attach itself to one side and you 
won't get a good joint.

Touch the wetted tip of the iron to the join between the two and after a 
moment the dull grey solder should melt. Apply a small amount more fresh 
solder, to get some flux into the joint and let it do it's stuff. When the 
flux bubbles out of the joint and it is all liquid, take the tip away. Don't 
be tempted to keep heating and cooling it to 'tidy it up' - that will 
probably lead to another dry joint. As long as it's neat 'enough' and not 
likely to short across, leave it. Try not to heat it for too long (more than 
a few seconds) as the PCB track can lift off the board which is not good. If 
there is far too much solder it can be picked off with the tip and wiped off 
on the sponge.

As in all things, keep your tip clean ;-)

The end result should be a smooth joint in bright shiny solder, firmly 
attached to both post and board.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:52:05 GMT, "PC Paul"  wrote:


>"Chris Bacon"  wrote in message 

>>
>> Scrape off the old solder from the square post *very carefully* and
>> brighten the "O" that the post passes through on the circuit board.
>> When it's clean, get a soldering iron (you can buy a new 30W one for
>> a few pounds), let it heat well, and complete the joint.
>>
>
>Interesting, thanks.
>
>FWIW, speaking as an ex electronics engineer who has done far more soldering 
>than is good for me, this type of dull grey joint is called a dry joint, and 
>can be completely disconnected electrically even though it's still seemingly 
>touching metal-to-metal.
>

Reminds me of a problem I had on a Merc with the fuel system relay;
which involved resoldering a dry joint. I am guessing that a Merc
replacement would cost IRO 100. I wonder how may cars are scrapped, or
expensive units needlessly replaced, due to simple dry joints?
-- 
Regards,  Chris    (Please take out my car to reply by email)     
----1961 Austin A40 Farina----1966 Triumph Herald Estate---
---1967 Riley Elf---1965 Hillman Minx---1969 Morris Minor--
-1972 Mini Clubman estate--1957 Standard 8--1979 Ford Capri
    ********** Please don't email in HTML! **********

In article ,
   Chris Bolus  wrote:

> Reminds me of a problem I had on a Merc with the fuel system relay;
> which involved resoldering a dry joint. I am guessing that a Merc
> replacement would cost IRO 100. I wonder how may cars are scrapped, or
> expensive units needlessly replaced, due to simple dry joints?


I'd say it's the most common reason for failure on most electronics.

-- 
*You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The message 
from "Dave Plowman (News)"  contains these words:


>  I wonder how may cars are scrapped, or
> > expensive units needlessly replaced, due to simple dry joints?

> I'd say it's the most common reason for failure on most electronics.


Dry joints, are one thing - there's also the situation where the item
has unsoldered itself. Seen that quite a few times. I suppose you could
argue that it's an extreme form of a dry joint....

-- 
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

"Chris Bacon"  wrote in message 
news:42d583ec_1@x-privat.org...

> Moray Cuthill wrote:
>> Guess it went to the dealer then.
>
> OK, to convey and record what might be valuable to someone (I've just
> saved about 600! THIS IS WORTHWHILE IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE CARS!):
>
> I had no idea what this engine was, it was at the dealers so I couldn't
> look at it & reply to questions. Apologies. Y-reg Astra 1.7 diesel.
>
> I bought a Clarke TB2S towing bar, which is a Good Thing[1] and
> retrieved the car from the dealer, along with their diagnostic
> sheet. I will try to send in the information thereon (spill valve?),
> but haven't got it to hand now. Basically, they said "New diesel
> pump control unit (not pump!), and wanted 770 to fix.
>
> These CUs seem to cost 450-550 depending where you get them (new
> or recon). Fitting is simple, although there may be "programming"
> to do for a new one, I don't know. The cheapest price I got to fix
> this was 580.
>
> A careful "Google" showed there might be a fix. *Much* kudos to
> "Tony Sefton" for the original information.
>
> I still don't know what "fly by wire" means.
>
> This car has the control unit bolted to the back of the engine (pump?).
>
> To get at it, undo the clip holding the thick black pipe onto the
> air filter (I think) and the clip at the other end. Take off some
> sort of plug that's wired in to the middle. You have to pull one
> end, rather like opening a matchbox, and the plug comes out. Remove
> the section of thick black air-pipe. You can then get at the diesel
> pump control unit fairly easily.
>
> Down the back of the engine (back left as you look at it) you will
> see or feel a square aluminium thing *about* 5" square and 1 1/4"
> thick, with vertical fins on like a motorbike engine. It has a wiring
> plug which needs to be taken off. There are 4 10mm set bolts, one at
> each corner, to remove. These are not tight, an open-end spanner
> is OK.
>
> When you've got the thing off, you will be surprised it's worth
> that amount. It has "ISUZU" written on it. Turn it over, and you
> will see a flat aluminium cover plate, probably with a round sticker
> in the middle, held into the rest of the thing with black rubbery
> sealer all round. Run the point of a sharp knife into the sealant
> around the perimeter. Then *carefully* but forcefully lever off the
> plate with a screwdriver. Under the plate is a circuit board. Careful
> not to damage any components! You're a step away from the fix. *Very
> near* the middle of the circuit board you will see a square post
> sticking up. It may have a bad solder connection. Look at the other
> connections on the board - see how shiny and perfect they are? *This*
> one is probably dull grey, and you can see that the solder does not
> connect the circuit board to the post at all well.
>
> Scrape off the old solder from the square post *very carefully* and
> brighten the "O" that the post passes through on the circuit board.
> When it's clean, get a soldering iron (you can buy a new 30W one for
> a few pounds), let it heat well, and complete the joint.
>
> Put the control unit cover plate back on with some sealer (*not*
> ordinary silicone IMO as it gives off acetic acid during the curing
> process, I used neutral cure frame sealent for PVC windows). Re-fit
> the control unit, plug, black air pipe, air pipe electric plug.
>
> Then, you're off! *That's all there is to it*.
>
> I spoke to a diesel specialist about this. He was very surprised!
> This may be a common fault. He'd done 6 in the last month, vehicles
> sent to him by "the trade". He was the one who quoted me the lowest
> price (doesn't normally deal with "the public"), so I passed this
> on to him. Personally, I think Vauxhall should do something about
> it. This is a minor fault in an expensive component.
>
> The procedure would take (next time) an hour or less.
>
>
>
> [1] This towing bar has a spring in the middle to help absorb
> braking shock. All that the towed driver needs to do is make sure
> they drive exactly behind the towing car, not to one side or the
> other. The towing car does all the braking (some care still needed
> by towing driver, I shouldn't like a "jacknife" (SP?). The hooks
> on this towing bar can be closed up a bit with a lump hammer so
> that they go on old Cavalier towing eyes. 

Moray Cuthill wrote:

> "Chris Bacon" wrote...
>>I think Vauxhall should do something about it. This is a minor
>>fault in an expensive component.
>>
>>The procedure would take (next time) an hour or less.



This has got be thinking (a bad sign!) - what other cars
use the same control unit? Corsas? Vectras? Vans? Cars
other than Vauxhalls?